Can the bio-father just sign his rights away and be done with it? Yes, I know that many might have a problem with me asking that question but honestly neither my husband or I want anything to do with this child if it is in fact his. Sorry if that bothers anyone but I personally think if the OW puts herself in a position to get pregnant and decides to keep the baby against the father's wishes then it should be her responsibility solely. And yes, I have been on both sides of this debate although not as an OW but as a teenager I did get pregnant and the bio-father did not want anything to do with us so I decided that we would just take care of ourselves and not have someone in our lives that didn't want to be there but that is a personal thing I suppose.
Giving up paternal right is a serious legal process, one that Judges do not take likely. Even if OW agrees and have financial means to care for that child on her own the judge will still deny it unless there is another man ready to step in and adopt yes legally adopt that child.
If this was allow just because the father dont want to be the father, we would have even more children living in poverty (OC and children of divorce alike).
Misto, I am sad you too are in this situation. I am also sad for the child that had no choice in his/her conception and even less of a choice in who his/her parents are and how THEY CHOSE to get together and created this mess.
The mother of the child has to agree to it.
I have a friend whose son just signed his parental rights away because the mother of the child was getting married and the soon to be husband wanted to adopt the child.
Your OW sounds just as crazy as my OW.
Very good vent.
I know how you feel. I'm just sorry we have to know how this feels.
You have to put you and your children first.
I do think that the OC is innocent but I also know that the BS and the COM are innocent.
This is an unfortunate situation all around. If your H is found to be the father NC is an option, though I do believe that it says that MM is not owning his shit, when the anger and hatred is this intense it is for the best.
H claimed he had not seen OW or OC since he saw them in the hospital 4 months ago. I had a feeling he was lying to me, and my gut feeling is usally right. Today I was trying to clean our home office, and found a torn piece of paper that looks like a letter of agreement he drafted for OW to sign re: child support and stipulations of visitation and custody. My guess is that they couldn't agree on anything, and ended up fighting (resulting in only half the paper). It is dated 2 weeks after OC was born and has her writing on it as well, so obviously they were seeing each other for at least 2 weeks when he claimed he wasn't. That was about the time he suddenly had a change of heart and said he is going NC with the OC. I believe he has followed through on his word about NC because OW has tried contacting me and MIL for CS. H had told her no CS unless it is agreed or court ordered, which has not been lined up yet.
So how would you feel about this if you were me, and would you do anything about it? I guess I'm not surprised, but I'm a bit sad. Should I bring this up or let it go?
OW since Dec? 04
D-day May 07
OC borm July 07
I blew up completely and we had a hard couple of weeks--H h various excuses but bottom line was that he couldn't handle getting it from her all the time and couldn't face getting it from me just then--so he claimed there were some phone calls that he didn't share with me. It set back our reconciliation very badly--trust was shot, etc.
Now I think that he is sharing all contacts with her (she still calls too much I think, but there are some issues with OC that H needs to know about--but at least we negotiated about it, not a secret)
So my point in this long explanation is that it will be worse if you keep it to yourself--or god forbid find out more evidence of contact. It sounds pretty innocent, but it's the principle of being open and honest that's at stake here. So I would bring it up with him, in a curious rather than angry manner, and see what he says.
no flaming from me
I can't believe what OW and her family have put you and your children through. I hope you called the police and filed a RO with the court.
I see that you said "if it is his in fact". He could always petition to determine paternity and if the said child is his, go through the legal process of signing away his rights. If it isn't, then petition for a RO, that way they leave you alone.
In my county, I know of a particular bio-father who signed his rights away and the kids were his COM. He didn't want to pay support, nor go to jail, so he gave up all rights instead.
I think you're doing the right thing in your husband's case. Your children need to come first. The OC's family is T-R-O-U-B-L-E. Protect your kids!
"Aunt - I absolutely agree with you on the child's mother. In those kinds of situations, where the OW is a scheming, manipulative trouble maker, it makes it almost impossible to have a relationship with the child. And that will make a huge difference to the child when she is old enough to know what happened, and she will probably resent her mother BIG time for that. I find it sad that this women can't put her feelings aside and do what is best for her daughter! My situation is very different, my son's father literally just threw his son away. Didn't even try to establish a relationship with him. I went no contact, and I never strayed from it, other than the few times we needed to talk regarding legal reasons after my son was born. I've always told him that even down the road, if he wants to have contact, that door will be open ... that is what's in the best interest of my son, to know his father. And that is how I know I've done the right thing, and when my son does come to me about his situation, I will know I did everything I possbily could to facilitate instead of hinder a relationship with his father. I read so much on these boards about horrible OW, vindictive, just can't let go, find it necessary to cause trouble constantly and I just don't get it. It's bad enough that we entered into a situation we had no business being in the first place, but to CONTINUE to cause hurt intentionally is just beyond me! I am truly sorry this woman continues to hurt you, but like I said, maintain no contact and ignore her!"
Not sure if I quoted correctly.
I too am fow w/oc and have a few thoughts. First one is why your inlaws have not spent much time with your children.
'first of all I MEAN NO DISRESPECT TO MORMANS. I live in a state with a lot and are friends with quite a few. BUT Mormans have a few different beliefs. They believe in OTHER mormans. Not all mormans are that way but quite a few are. This ow is morman. They probaly want this oc to be raised the same. It's there blood and the ow is morman so therefore the morman belief is going to be more strong and taught versus your children being christain as well and well there is a bit of conflict. Mormans are more willing to forgive there own too. Kwim?
I am also suspecting that is why they paid less attention to your children when you lived just a few houses down. It's so unfair I agree with you. I know this woman has hurt you and continued to "try" and distrupt your marriage over and over. Just like over and out said not all Ow's are like this. Personally I go out of my way to make sure I don't even run into xmm and his family. We live close in distance and work and I just don't want my oc to see them. Xmm (to you guys standard, which is fine) did wrong by my daughter his blood and therefore I dont even think he deserves to see this beautiful funny 3 year old. Again I mean no disrespect.
The way I see it is no matter what the reasons are he has chosen where he wants to be and what he wants to and how he handles this. Those are his to choose and LIVE with. Kwim?
I've seen this debate one or two times where the grandparents or inlaws have wanted to have a relationship with the oc and honestly I can UNDERSTAND where the bw is coming from, but I can also see and understand where the inlaws are coming from and somehow applaud that. I mean in my eyes family is family. It's all we have. If handled correctly and respectfuly although hard could be done correctly for the most part. Holidays and such still would be having someone loose out.
The fact is if they have gone out of there way for this oc, they could have gone out of there way for your com when you lived there. I agree with that. My next sentence will be harsh and again I mean no disrespect. But I think IMHO they have choosen this oc because she is morman.
Questiom did they (inlaws) know this ow before as well?
[This message edited by marysway at 3:46 PM, September 29th (Saturday)]
I am still determined to be cheerful and happy, in whatever situation I may be; for I have also learned from experience that the greater part of our happiness or misery depends upon our dispositions, and not upon our circumstances.
I am sure NOT proud of my affair that I had. And yeap I did not have my oc under the best of circumstances. I made the choice to have her knowing her father would never be in her life. It would have been much easier not having her, but I did what I had to do to live with myself just as xmm did.
Personally I don't believe in NC for any child unless there is abuse involved, but on the other hand NC for me is so much better not dealing with the bullshit. I know I'm being selfish in my thoughts. Pure selfishness and hypicrital of me.
Back to my point, who is this child going to believe? A parent who has BEEN there for her all her life or a someone who has walked away from her? No matter what the reason?
Kids see what faults there parents have and although seen, they still will be loyal to that parent and love that parent. But hopefully when she is old enough to understand and if she is lucky enough to one day have a relationship with you and your family she will not hold ill will and all will be fine. The adults keep it to themself kwim?
I am curious, and I ask this VERY respectfully. If the OC in your life has a "legal father", why is is your wish to continue with C?
Don't you feel that sharing the child between families will be detrimental to the child as he/she grows up?
I ask this only because I am in a similar situation and I am curious as to your point of view.
My grandmother not only had to deal with her H having an A, but he married and had 3 OC with the OW, who just happened to be her niece. It may have happened 30 yrs ago but the kids all grew up as siblings. Things weren't all roses but that how it was.
For me, I tell my kids not to say anything negative to the OC about their mother. She may be a crack whore, but they don't need to know that. Kids even at a young age, know who takes care of them and who doesn't. They know what their parent's weaknesses are, I hear it everyday from my teenagers who remember how their father was not there for them and carrying on making another family.
Contact or no contact that is everyones choice to make, the main thing is to be adult about it, no matter what decision you make.
I appreciate your point of view.
I suppose my thoughts actually gear towards the bests interests of the child here, believe it or not.
I know of two families in this situation and they both wish they'd never have started C between two intact families. One child is old enough to realize something is "amiss".
I am not trying to stir up a debate over C vs NC, I am simply interested in how a man with a family views taking a child back and forth between two families and how that may impact the child in the future.
In my situation, we are NC. H had an A with a MOW and her H said NC. I was not happy with this before, but I see the merit of it now.
If the "reason" is the best interest of the child, then I may argue that maybe it is the best interest of the person who had the A to begin with ?
Just respectful thoughts.
Has BNC said if the adults are adults then the children should be okay. It us adults that tend to ruin it.
I really was only thinking here of when the OC is born into an intact family. This is my world, and as much as I get disgruntled with things, I still try to make sense of them and do my best to further my mind and thoughts here.
BMC has the ideal philosphy saying that adults should be adults, but let's face it... that's saying to put the child above everyone else. I will be VERY honest here, at the risk of shaming myself, and tell you that there are times in all of this when I worried about my COM and I a whole lot more than the OC.
I can't get the "if you have an A and produce a child of it, then you have a get out of jail free ticket for life to continue with the betrayal" thought out of my head. I know..I know Mary..same old arguement. I suspect that my thoughts are geared to any C with the AP is betrayal..
And, I know of the poster you referred to. My verdict is still out on my thoughts here - lol- as if my thoughts even mattered... I keep thinking about OC here being in the same school system as COM and I can hear someone asking him "why do you go to THEIR house sometimes?..why do you call XXX'x father, Dad?"
And seeing the OC reply... "Because my mom who was married to my dad fooled around with XXX's dad who was married to my step-mom".
See? My mind thinks ahead far to much...
Good to see you, Mary.
My first question for you is what exactly is the definition of "best interest of a child". In my opinion society feels that as long as a child is in an "intact" family then everything should remain that way. I do not feel that is in the best interest of anyone except maybe the adults who were affected by the affair.
It is in the best interest of the child to be loved by all of her family. I have two children and this child is their sister. How can I as a mother keep them away from their sister. My H was just to blame for the affair as the OW. My H has just as much rights as she does in raising this child regardless of if she is married or not.
I have accepted this situation and want this child to be a part of our family like she should be. She is my stepdaughter and she has grandparents, uncles, aunts and cousins who already know her but are now being told we may never get to see her again because of the laws in Florida.
It was hard at first to accept the situation but in the end I knew it was the right decision to make. How many people do you know only have one set of parents. In today's socieity kids have stepparents, half brothers and stepbrothers. If a child is shared between two families who love the child how can that not be in that childs best interest.
I respect my H's decision for wanting to be a part of his childs life. I know in my heart that if something ever happened to us in the future he would never abandon our children. Despite the affair, he is a wonderful father.
As for the question about a Biological Father signing his rights away, he cannot do that unless the mother approves it and there is another man who is willing to raise that child as his own. If all biological fathers were able to just sign their rights away, it would be happening left and right to avoid paying Child Support.
I am sorry if I offended anyone. But I truly feel it is in the childs best interest to know their Entire family. All children deserve to know and share a relationship with their bio father. No child should be left without that right.
One more think I wanted to say about just blaming the ow. I know it's easy to put all the blame towards the OW, especially when she gets pregnant. But it takes two for the affair, it takes two to get pregnant. I don't think that OW should be left to raise that child alone without a father just becuase she cheated. The H is just as much to blame in making that child as the ow.
I love my H so much and no matter how much he hurt me over the affair, I know he is hurting now because he can't see his daughter. No matter what he did, he doesn't deserve this. No one who is a good loving parent deserves to have their rights taken from them just because of this stupid archaic law.
OK I guess that is my vent for the morning.
BTW, We saw pics of my H's daughter on the OW myspace. We haven't seen her since 5/18/07. It was so hard to look at them. She is getting so big and is already walking. She just turned one on 8/30. She is such a beautiful little girl. This situation has been tough on our entire family.
I hope everyone has a great Sunday!
To me, the "best interest of the child" includes, but not necessarily limited to a few things..
Granted, this to me only applies when there is a father already in place raising the child...
The OC will always know they are "different". I do NOT say that in a disrespectful way, but how do you wish for your step-daughter to explain her family situation as she grows up?
Isn't it better to allow the child some sense of normalcy in the formative years and know that the future timing, as an adult for the OC, will allow for family ties to form IF the OC chooses?
In your comment regarding "blaming the OW". Well, good grief, she didn't do "it" alone LOL, intent or not. KWIM?
I am not singling out your situation for my comments here. I merely was interested in your point of view, and I am appreciative of it.
No one wins in an Affair. ..and I can't really fathom comparing this situation to that of "divorced" parents. It isn't even close to the same thing, really.
I'm going to "throw" this at you for CONVERSATION only...
Please remember, that I am in your situation to a certain extent and on your side here..
You commented.. "no matter what he did (referring to your H), he didn't deserve this"..
What would you say to the school of thought that says that is the price he pays for messing with another man's wife?
Remember, I am on your side and admirable of the stance you have taken.