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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: For Those That Love An Alcoholic
MRS2008
♀ New Member
Member # 17931
Default  Posted: 10:56 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

People are supposed to "add" to your life - not "take away" from it

This is so true! I can only imagine how good it felt to say everything you felt. I know I'm not there yet but when I imagine it it feels great. Maybe someday I will have that strength. I know right now I don't help the situation by keeping things in or holding back but it is so hard to see him hurt.

Oh well one day at a time right.


Me: BS 30
Him: WS 29
DD: 1-22-08
M: 8.5 Yrs
No kids just cats
Future ???

Posts: 29 | Registered: Jan 2008
lovtolaff
♀ New Member
Member # 8975
Default  Posted: 7:31 AM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can only imagine how good it felt to say everything you felt

Oh my - it was like 15 tons of bricks came off my shoulders. I have to say alot of it was vile and hateful but once it started coming out there was no stopping it. The sad thing -he agreed to most of it - except the part about him being an alcoholic. He is going to "slow down" on the drinking. Yeah whatever.


The sun was shining and it was a beautiful day when I met him. Then, everything went crazy.

Posts: 40 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: Virginia
funny story
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Member # 16855
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My H is the same way - will agree that drinking is a problem, that he should cut down, but that he's not an "alcoholic".

Well, I think if your drinking is a problem, then you are an alcoholic.

Just did a calculation of beers drank per day by going through our VISA bill - on average every day in February he drank 7 beers. Every day. And that's not counting going out - only beers bought "for home". H is a numbers guy, so I would like to show him so he could not argue about how much he is drinking. It might be an eye opener for him...I have the last three months tracked so maybe we'll have the discussion after our next MC appt. I have a feeling our counsellor is going to tell him that if counselling is going to work, then he needs to quit drinking. I don't want to say anything until I know whether that happens or not. Then if he resists, I've got something to back up my argument for him to quit.


(me) BW - (33)
WH - (37)
Married: 11 years
Children: DD - 11, DS - 8
D-Day: September 22, 2007

"I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me."


Posts: 2128 | Registered: Nov 2007
lovtolaff
♀ New Member
Member # 8975
Default  Posted: 6:18 AM, March 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just did a calculation of beers drank per day by going through our VISA bill - on average every day in February he drank 7 beers. Every day

Ha ha - I'm a counter too and I hate it. I try not to keep track but it's always in the back of my mind.

Also, I get so tired of hearing "I'll slow it down" - yeah whatever. If you could do that we wouldn't be where we are with this mess.

I've started reading Codependent No More by Melody Beattie and I'm hoping it will help me detach a little more and get on with living MY life instead of worrying so much about what my "I'm not an alcoholic - I just like to drink" boyfriend is doing. It's going to be a long road I'm sure.

Hope everyone has a nice, peaceful weekend.


The sun was shining and it was a beautiful day when I met him. Then, everything went crazy.

Posts: 40 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: Virginia
funny story
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Member # 16855
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, March 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've read the book, it did bring up some interesting issues. Actually got the damn thing from my SIL/OW!!

Oyvay!

But yeah, I told him I wouldn't count his beers, yet here I am, doing it. He says he's slowed down and some days I see it, but he just seems to be going right back to where he was before...maybe not drunk so many nights, but there isn't a night where he doesn't have one and when I did the calculation and found out it's an average of 7 a DAY, well, frankly it scared me.


(me) BW - (33)
WH - (37)
Married: 11 years
Children: DD - 11, DS - 8
D-Day: September 22, 2007

"I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me."


Posts: 2128 | Registered: Nov 2007
learningtodeal
♀ New Member
Member # 17859
Default  Posted: 8:37 PM, March 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hello! new to this forum and still i guess a little new to this site. my bf is out right now, he has been going out maybe 2 nights a week to his classes in the city- then he goes to the law library. he has been going to have a sandwich and a couple beers every time he goes to class in town, and whenever he can get the chance to have a few beers (if we go out to dinner etc). he knows that it is a problem when he binge drinks and gets completely drunk, so now i guess he is reasoning with himself, that maybe he can control it and just have a few beers- but now it is starting to become more and more frequent, more frequent than the binge drinking ever was. he does not get drunk- he certainly starts feeling good. once he lied to me and said he didnt have anything to drink then i later got it out of him that he had 3 beers with lunch, now tonight i just got in from work and he is no where to be found he was supposed to be home before me and he just called, getting on the train from the "library" had to stop for some dip at 7-11, then i asked if he had been drinking he said yes he had a few beers, i said at the library? he said no i went to the pub etc. etc. i have been talking with my therapist, who has also been our couples therapist and she and i are well aware, as he is also well aware that he is an alcoholic. when i first found about the A he went to some AA meetings with his father who is a recovering alcoholic of 20 yrs or so. his father was so excited, then he just stopped and i dont think hes ready to give up drinking. but im happy that at least hes not binge drinking anymore. maybe he thinks because hes being honest with me about it he doesnt have to change the behavior? any input is appreciated thanks!


Me: 25 Betrayed
Him: 33 Former Wayward
Together 6.5 yrs
Just Married!

Posts: 36 | Registered: Jan 2008
NCguy2
♂ Member
Member # 8002
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, March 8th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For the newcomers, here is the original link I started on this subject. Here you will find posts and links on addiction gathered throughout the web. Hope you find them useful!

http://survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=75405

A sample:

From the post below: "As an alcoholic, I can tell you that's what we do! We do it because you don't think we will do it....You think we're like other people but we're not.... "
Some of us decide to leave, we go through hell, we "move on".....and yet, the wound stays open. Past relationships with addicts seem to haunt so many of us for so long. We feel regret and shame, even after the "ending", whereas the addict heaps on more pain for longer than we can understand.

Outside of SR, I've rarely seen an exchange on this topic more eloquent than the one below. "Endings" with addicts can be as insane as the relationships themselves.

The writer of this letter could easily be someone here at SR, we know her so well...or she IS us.

The man who replies is a very wise straight-shooter, an alcoholic in recovery who tells it like it is.

This is a very long post, I hope it is OK. The article appears in salon.com, which is "subscription only", so since some of you would not be able to read it online I decided to paste it here.

=======

Dear Cary,

A few years ago at the age of 49, I decided to leave my alcoholic husband. I'm a rarity. Studies show that of 10 women married to alcoholics, only one will leave, while out of 10 men married to alcoholics, only one will stay. I've always supported myself, so while it was wrenching for me to leave my familiar prison, I was reasonably sure I could rebuild my life and start over as an unmarried woman. There are no children involved, by the way.

I will spare you the details of how wretchedly intolerable the situation was and how justified I was in leaving him, but they involved the usual alcoholic atrocities and then some: lying, gambling, refusing to take responsibility, financial disaster, verbal abuse, betrayal of trust, denial, physical and emotional estrangement, shifting of blame. I felt I had to leave him to save my own life, and since he blamed me for everything bad about his life, I thought he wouldn't object. He didn't; he helped me find my own house and move. Of course I'd already tried everything wives of alcoholics try: pleading, bribing, screaming, co-drinking, codependency, threats, attempted intervention and, eventually, thanks to my Al-Anon group, detachment.

After I left and filed for divorce, telling my low-key attorney that I expected an uncomplicated, mutually agreed-upon if not amicable split, he hired the "best" divorce firm in this city and proceeded to make our divorce unnecessarily horrific, brutal, expensive and protracted. He didn't fight to keep me; he sought to punish me financially and emotionally for divorcing him. (Leaving was allowed; divorcing him was not to be borne.) After two years, the magistrate handling our case finally told him to stop filing motions against me. That was two months ago.

I just recently found a good job that will allow me to pay back the debts I incurred in the divorce. I'm living in my own house. I have a new boyfriend who treats me well and does not drink heavily or gamble. My health is much improved and my future no longer looks dreary. I'm right where I always envisioned myself when I used to daydream about how pleasant life could be if I were not married to a depressed alcoholic with a gambling addiction. I've rebuilt my life's foundations and I'm starting to build a new social network. I haven't had a threatening, vitriolic, accusing letter, e-mail or voice mail from the ex in two months. Life is good.

Until the other night, when I heard a sad song about heartbreak and abandonment (Alison Krauss' "Ghost in This House") and it got to me. I felt so sad for him, and I thought about how it must have hurt him when I left. At the time I didn't see how I could have done anything different to get away from a relationship that was killing me slowly, but now I wonder. I did not handle the leaving and divorce with kindness and dignity, as I would like to have done. I did not rise above the situation and treat him like a person with an illness. I was too hurt, too scared and too desperate.

This is the curse of divorcing an alcoholic: You don't get closure. No one can fault you for leaving for one of the "big A" reasons (addiction, abuse, abandonment, adultery), but you don't get, I don't know, maybe "resolution" is the word I'm looking for. Finality. Peace. Serenity. The opportunity to be friends, or at least on civil terms with your ex. Maybe it's lingering codependency that keeps whispering to me that there was something I could have done, not to save my marriage but to end it without so much ugliness and pain.

I loved him once. I'd like to forgive him. But I don't know where he went; the person I loved is gone and only the addiction inhabits his body. He hates me and blames me for everything, including his drinking, even though he will not admit that he has a problem. If I told him I forgave him, he'd say I have nothing to forgive, and he does not forgive me. We had 10 years together; some of them were wonderful, and now they just seem like a waste of time.

I went through hell in the final years and months of my marriage. It was a relief to end it, and I feel reborn. I thought I was past the worst of it and all my tears were shed. Now that he's not harassing me any longer, I'm out of self-preservation mode and I have time for reflection and regret. There is this huge disconnect between my life then and my life now; I've cut myself off completely from the people we both knew and even the industry we both used to work in. In effect, I gave them to him. They were the price I was willing to pay to escape. I don't regret leaving him, only that I acted badly toward him and others while I was struggling with the bitter end of my marriage.

Can you tell me how to move on, reach resolution and forgive myself?

Phoenix (the mythical bird, not the city)

Dear Phoenix,

I am reading this letter and I am going yep, yep, yep, that's classic!

I know I answer a lot of letters about alcoholism, but it is one thing I know inside and out, so when I can't figure out what else to do this is what I do, I go and write about alcoholism.

As an alcoholic, I can tell you that's what we do! We do it because you don't think we will do it. You don't think we're capable of it. You don't think we'd dare. You think we'll forget and move on. You think we're like other people but we're not. You think we've got some shame but we don't. We don't stop when others stop. We don't slow down when others slow down. We just speed up! We will do anything and that's our awesome power.

We will not be deterred by shame or pity or self-consciousness. Whatever happens, we can take it because we've got our medicine. We'll do anything as long as we've got our medicine. We'll take it as far as it can go. We've got the medicine to keep us going. We've got the stuff that kills the conscience so we don't have to stop halfway on account of our little conscience. Conscience? Nah. Watch this. We'll take it where you can't even imagine anybody would want to go. Why? Because we can! Because we're drunk! Because we don't give a *******. You just watch.

And just when you think it's over? Ha! That's when we're just getting started: Have another drinky-poo, we're not even tired, we've been drinking all night and we're still going, and wait till you see what's coming next!

Not only can I channel that voice but I even, in a twisted diabolical alcoholic way, appreciate what he is up to -- the awful terrible spite of it, the wounded, caged-animal desperation of it, the stealthy, secretive, maniacal mad-scientist glee of its sadism and depravity. And beneath it all the whole time I know there is that poor little abused soul, which he can trot out every now and then to win your sympathy and pity. And he will do that if he can; he will put on his little "Howdy Doody Show."

Detach. Detach. Don't get too close or he'll pick your pocket. Forgive yourself for being human. Align yourself with other women who have been there. If he has friends who have sobered up and can commiserate, commiserate with them. You have to heal it. He's not going to help. He's going to make it harder if he can. Don't let him. Heal it up. Use everything you've got.

This guy is not on your side. This guy, as long as he's drinking, you just have to protect yourself from him.

So do not pity this man. Pity, if you wish, those he owes money to. But do not pity this man and do not try to help him. Take care of yourself instead.

It might not feel like it's over, but it's over for you. It's not over for him but it's over for you.

Detach. Detach. Wait. A change is gonna come.


His name is Robert Paulsen

Posts: 1725 | Registered: Aug 2005 | From: NC
lovtolaff
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Member # 8975
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello everyone. I hope everyone is hanging in there.

Something I want to share..I started reading Codependent No More and there is a quote in there that has summed up my life for the past 2 years...."The sun was shining and it was a beautiful day when I met him. Then, everything went crazy."


The sun was shining and it was a beautiful day when I met him. Then, everything went crazy.

Posts: 40 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: Virginia
MRS2008
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Member # 17931
Default  Posted: 10:33 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NCguy2 thanks for posting that letter. There is a lot of truth there that hurts to read because I can see it in my life.

I am so glad I found this site and there are so many people out there that truly relate to the pain and confusion.

At this point I keep trying but I fear there will come a day I have to detach. I hope not, I hope he will change, I hope someday he chooses me and our marriage over the alcohol. Some days he has, but the days he doesn't make life that much harder.


Me: BS 30
Him: WS 29
DD: 1-22-08
M: 8.5 Yrs
No kids just cats
Future ???

Posts: 29 | Registered: Jan 2008
lovtolaff
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Member # 8975
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, March 11th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At this point I keep trying but I fear there will come a day I have to detach. I hope not, I hope he will change, I hope someday he chooses me and our marriage over the alcohol. Some days he has, but the days he doesn't make life that much harder.

So many "hopes" in that sentence. I have it too - HOPE that is. We aren't married but might as well be. I so want him to get better but I fear that one day I will finally wake up to the fact that it's probably not going to happen when I need/want it to.

And for us - I don't keep anything bottled up - I tell him what I'm feeling, I tell him what our problem is with the alcohol, I've threatened more times than I care to remember, I've cussed, I've screamed, I've begged and I've cried to no avail. He refuses to see it - denial. Needless to say, my "hope" gets less and less after every drink.


The sun was shining and it was a beautiful day when I met him. Then, everything went crazy.

Posts: 40 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: Virginia
funny story
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Member # 16855
Default  Posted: 3:40 PM, March 11th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He refuses to see it - denial.

Same here. MC made a demand that he quit drinking if we're going to continue MC. He told me that it was unfair of her to make that decision, but that he would if I asked him to. Then he said though that he would resent me for it. Well, what do you think I said?! I told him that I don't think he has to quit all together, but that I wanted to show him something. I brought out the calculations that I did taking our VISA bill. He wouldn't hardly look at them, said my numbers were all out and that there was no way that the numbers were that high. And he's a numbers guy. I argue that numbers don't lie. I want him to go through the bills and refute my numbers for real and come up with his own. He is in denial. I saw it last night when I flat out confronted him about it, he wouldn't even acknowledge it.

It's so frustrating.


(me) BW - (33)
WH - (37)
Married: 11 years
Children: DD - 11, DS - 8
D-Day: September 22, 2007

"I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me."


Posts: 2128 | Registered: Nov 2007
NCguy2
♂ Member
Member # 8002
Default  Posted: 3:58 PM, March 11th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First the man takes a drink; then the drink takes a drink; then the drink takes the man.
Japanese Proverb


His name is Robert Paulsen

Posts: 1725 | Registered: Aug 2005 | From: NC
lovtolaff
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Member # 8975
Default  Posted: 8:57 AM, March 17th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just wanted to bump our thread back up and see how everyone is doing lately...how about some updates?

I'll go first - I'm taking it day by day. We have good days and bad days - luckily for now - more good than bad.

Next.....


The sun was shining and it was a beautiful day when I met him. Then, everything went crazy.

Posts: 40 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: Virginia
Boadicea
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Member # 18032
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, March 17th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My H is a recovering alcoholic. He has been sober for over 20 years. (I should probably ask him exactly how long it's been.)


ďOne manís folly is often another manís wife.Ē Helen Rowland

Posts: 751 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: New York City
ToughChick
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Member # 17854
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, March 17th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi everyone-my update-

My H completed rehab and is continuing with AA every day and aftercare once a week plus IC. He says he feels really good and he seems to be happy. I hope it's true.

We are going away on vacation next week and he already looked up the locations for his AA meetings. I think he finally realizes that he has a lot to lose....


As for the A--I know he thinks he has kicked the alcohol and the A was just because he was drinking but I cannot believe that. We still have some work to do before I am ready to put that behind us. But I feel positive now about our future together as long as he is sober.


Me: 40
Him: WH 39, 3years, 3 months sober
Married: 12 years
Children: 10 yrs, 8 yrs, 3 years
D Day 1-June 22, 2007
D Day 2-January 10, 2008

Posts: 807 | Registered: Jan 2008
I_used_to_smile
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Member # 14113
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, March 17th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Coming back to this thread just to say that, now that I'm out and away from alcoholic STBX, his behaviors are so obvious, and I can finally put into words what we experienced for 16 years.

Yesterday was "Classic" him. He took the kids in a St. Pat's parade with him, driving the red convertible he supposesedly bought for our 16 year old (Oh, really ... a red convertible, bought by a 47 year old in the midst of a full-blown mid-life crisis ... and it's for his daughter?? Pull the other one!)

Anyway, I went, against my better judgment, to take pictures of the kids. Sure enough, as they're crusing, there are catcalls and hoots from all sides. All his bar buddies and buddiettes were out in full force, and already drunk.

The parade ends. STBX drives the car about 90 mph home to dump off the kids as fast as he can, and races back outside for the convertible, grabbing the "Kiss Me I'm Irish" hat off DD#2's head, and he's gone - back downtown to start drinking with his friends - at 12 noon.

The thing I could never express in words from these scenes - which happened constantly throughout our marriage - is that the instant - THE VERY INSTANT - he became aware that there was a party he was gone - mentally, emotionally, physically. We absolutely ceased to exist at that moment. Any excuse for a party was enough to make him forget every promise he ever made, to forget he had a home, a wife, daughters.

I'm glad that time and space have given me the ability to put it into words. His instantaneous absences hurt us more than just about anything else he did.

We ceased to exist, just like that.

So sad.


"Activity and sadness are incompatible."

- Christian Bovee

"It serves me right for putting all my eggs in one bastard."

- Dorothy Parker


Posts: 1373 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: East coast
lovtolaff
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Member # 8975
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, March 17th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

THE VERY INSTANT - he became aware that there was a party he was gone - mentally, emotionally, physically. We absolutely ceased to exist at that moment. Any excuse for a party was enough to make him forget every promise he ever made,

Oh man - that statement really hits home with me. I feel that way occasionally and also feel that I'm the "party pooper" b/c I don't share the same "woohoo let's party" attitude that my bf has.

Good for you for being away from the person that causes you pain - I fear that the same thing will happen to us one day.


The sun was shining and it was a beautiful day when I met him. Then, everything went crazy.

Posts: 40 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: Virginia
lovtolaff
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Member # 8975
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, March 17th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One more thing I would like to know - is anyone else here just because of living with an alcoholic - not necessarily b/c of the alcoholic having an affair?

We've been together for 2 years and so far there has been no infidelity and I pray to God that there never is. My broken down spirit just can't take it.


The sun was shining and it was a beautiful day when I met him. Then, everything went crazy.

Posts: 40 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: Virginia
damncutekitty
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Member # 5929
Default  Posted: 1:22 PM, March 17th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My XH had a drinking problem. It was not until I started attending al-anon meetings (because of someone else) that I realized I had some classic patterns with my XH. Like cleaning up after him and calling people and apologizing the next day when he would get drunk and embarrass me.

The guy I attended the meetings for never lived up to his promises to start attending AA. I started going to al-anon because I wanted to be supportive of him while he quit drinking. It's been almost a year now since I went NC with that guy.

While I am glad that I have ahd the strength to walk away from unhealthy people and relationships, I wonder sometimes why I let myself get so involved in the first place.

I still think about that other guy even if I dont' talk to him. I miss him. It's so lame because he was so far gone that I don't think he was even capable of caring about me. Last I heard he'd moved back in with his folks. He was drinking all the time and could not hold a job or pay his rent anymore.

I hope he's gotten his life on track. or does someday.


Keep calm and carry on.

Posts: 49406 | Registered: Nov 2004 | From: Minneapolis
notapuppet
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Member # 16480
Default  Posted: 1:56 PM, March 17th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm still here. I'm reading "Women who love too much" and nodding my head on almost every page. I'm trying to get myself to go to Alanon and it just hasn't happened yet.

My H is still drinking daily and sees nothing wrong with it. He's in EA #2. The chick calls/texts him constantly and he sees nothing wrong with it. (Nor does her husband.) So, I'm trying to get myself a life and focus on my son. Much easier said than done!


Me: 39
Him: 37
Together: 9 years
Married: 4.5 years
2.5 year old son

Posts: 256 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Midwest
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