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User Topic: For Those That Love An Alcoholic
tryingtwo
♀ Member
Member # 19717
Default  Posted: 6:02 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why?? maybe it is just time to move on and although that is a hard pill to swallow maybe it is the cure for what ails you.
You cannot make someone be something they are not. You cannot make someone love you more than they love their drug of choice.
I guess a person has to somehow not personalize it, but boy is that hard. I know I always thought to myself that I was never as important as a can of beer to my husband. That is pretty low on the food chain.
I think you may be hanging on to a hope, but perhaps the hope is for a new life and it is time to flush the old one completely. Cut the cord and move on.
You really do deserve to find some happiness without all the drama and booze twisting your head around all the time.
I know. Deep sigh. But what else can you do.
I mean, does your xWH bring out the best in you? Or the worst? Does he help you to be the best person you can be on this earth or is he a ball and chain that has been there so long you forgot you could walk without it?
I don't know. Just take care of your health and treat yourself kindly. Do something special for you.
Take care...


Innocent people generally want to get to the bottom of things. Guilty people usually want the discussion to be over as soon as possible.

Posts: 10311 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Oregon
NCguy2
♂ Member
Member # 8002
Default  Posted: 6:20 PM, August 17th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bump


His name is Robert Paulsen

Posts: 1725 | Registered: Aug 2005 | From: NC
Why??
♀ Member
Member # 18132
Helpless  Posted: 7:56 PM, September 6th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

very sad tonight...my stbxh seems to be spiraling downward and there's nothing I can do to stop it -- I've been gone over a year now and the D is final in a matter of weeks -- again nothing I can do to stop that either -- I feel so lost and sad for him and the way his life is falling apart but the rest of the world thinks he is OK (he's a closet A) -- his family lives out of town and only seems to call when they want something from him - I used to protect him from everyone -- now I am gone -- thanks for listening to my ramble on this lonely Sat. night

[This message edited by Why?? at 7:57 PM, September 6th (Saturday)]


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
Ron7127
♂ Member
Member # 10145
Default  Posted: 10:07 PM, September 6th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have not read much in this thread. Never realy knew it existed. But, I have had two longterm relationships with alcoholices.
The first was with my dad, who I loved. He was a very smart lawyer, graduating Harvard Law School early with a request that he stay on and teach. He drank so much it was incredible. He told me later, after he's stopped drinking, that for a month or two before he stopped, he kept track of how much he drank. In that period, tha absolute least he ever drank in a day was 32 shots, most followed with beer chasers. He drank on breaks during trial and he could still kick ass in court.
But, he was unbeleivably mean when he drank. He would come home and we would pray he would pass out before he noticed us> My mom went through hell and the kids were terrorized and attacked mercilessly.
The second relationship was in my first marriage. My wife must have always had a problem with booze and rugs, but I never saw it until my first son was born with Down syndrome and autism. Then, she really ramped it up/She would be gone for days while I worked and took care of my kids with no help. It was a nightmare, as well and she was incredibly mean and abusive(wshe once woke me up upon arriving home a t 3 a.m.((a frequent occurence)) to regal me with the details of the physique and sexual prowess of the guy she'd been with that night.
Anyway, I started reading on alcoholism. I noticed that with both my dad and my first wife, the overiding quality they had(besides being abusive) was selfishness, a sense that they were entitled to more than other people. This even manifested itself in their "recoveries". Now, instead of being gone at night drinking, they were always at AA meetings, socializing, smoking cigarrettes and drinking coffee. So, my mom, instead of having to take care of 6 young kids alone at night due to my dad's barhopping, had the same workload for a different reason. And, I sensed that my dad felt she should be grateful and her work should now subsidize his "recovery".
Same with my first wife> It was allthe same. Now I cared for the kids alone each night so she could hang with her AA buddies(she would go dancing with the guys and once flew to Chicago with a guy from her group to visit museums((they shared a hotel room)).
I read a story by a women attempting to recover from alcoholism>She was bright and had some insight into herself. She said that the question that always came to her was "are alcoholics assholes because they drink. Or, do they drink because they are assholes? After much thought, she said that she felt the latter was true. So do I.
You see, alcoholism is seldom seen in isolation. It is usually a symptom of soem other disoreder, most frequently a personality disorder like NPD(makes sense when yo witness the sense of entitlement and the lack of the inhibitions that keep other people from drinking when they know how adversely it affects others.
My dad would drive around withus kids in the car, from bar to bar and get hammered. We thought it was normal for dads to drive with their door open, puking their guts out while they drove. He could have killed us or anyone else on the road.
I truly think the best thing you can do if you are in a relatioship with an alcoholic or CD person is to get the hell out.

Posts: 2273 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Minnesota
tryingtwo
♀ Member
Member # 19717
Default  Posted: 12:26 AM, September 24th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My H and I just returned from Tahiti, a wonderful vacation and we rejoined in love. But something happened there concerning alcohol that I thought i would share.

I was in a lot of pain with my legs(old injuries) and at dinner my H suggested I have a glass of wine with my Advil. I have drank a glass of wine before in his presence but only with a group around like my family.

I said if it wouldn't bother him it would help with the pain. Then the waiter came to take our drink order. I ordered my wine and my H looks at me and says, well if it is okay with you and won't bother you I will have a beer.

I was stone shocked, but also it was something I aways thought would happen. That some day he would test his alcoholism. Those people are alcoholics...him he thought was just someone who got in trouble with booze. I always thought he would test this theory out when i wasn't around. Behind my back like so many other things.

In a few seconds I had much to decide. I was quaking inside. I will never be able to stop my H from drinking again. I never could before and that much I have learned the hard way. So I just looked at him and said, "You can decide."

He ordered the beer.

Now my heart was beating a thousand times a minute. I always knew I was one beer away from the nightmare again. One beer from the shithead drunk adulterer. I looked at my menu. I didn't say a word.

The waiter came back and set down the drinks. I looked at my menu but i saw from the corner of my eye my H taking that drink of beer. His face screwed up and he was trying really hard to look like he was normal. Just a normal guy sipping a beer. I didn't say anything, just talked about what I was going to order. So hard for me, so scared.

He took another sip and told me it wasn't good beer. I didn't say anything.

The waiter came and took my order. When it came time for my H he slid the beer and glass toward the waiter and asked for a cup of coffee. Told the waiter that the beer was fine and that he just changed his mind.

After the waiter left my H took my hands and made me look into his eyes. He said, "K... I don't want to ever go back there again either. I just wanted to taste it. I don't want to drink any more, again." I think he was truely scared too.
Then he said, "We can still go to France some day. You can taste the wine and I will taste test all that good French coffee, French bread and real butter. I am not going back there. I want this, what we have right now."

I had not realized until that moment what a huge thing the alcoholism was as far as blocking the R. I just knew he would try it one more time. I just knew. That he chose to test this while he was with me is a huge change. That I some how was able to stay reasonable during this evening is a miracle. That he took the taste, tested himself and found that he is too scared of the asshole he becomes to go back there. Too afraid of the detox, the nightmare his life had become. The fact that the booze tasted like crap to him. The fact he trusted me enough to ask me and I trusted him enough to allow the test in front of my is all so, so very much an incrediable step in our relationship and marriage.

I found a giant ghost left the room, left our lives, left my fears, left and isn't every coming back. It made room for love. I didn't know how afraid I had been until the fear left.

I was in Tahiti and fell in love again, this time with Sober Man (not an SI screen name )

So for those of you out there who are trying to R with a recovering alcoholic. I don't know if your story will go as mine has, but getting to know the new sober person is a long road. Letting go of the fear that the drunk would come back had held me back from love.

Well, Tahiti didn't hurt
Sorry it got so long to read.


Innocent people generally want to get to the bottom of things. Guilty people usually want the discussion to be over as soon as possible.

Posts: 10311 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Oregon
notapuppet
♀ Member
Member # 16480
Default  Posted: 3:29 PM, September 24th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TT, that is a simply wonderful story. A fairy tale for most of us. You are truly lucky!

My H is in treatment 3 nights per week currently and living with his parents. We have not spoken in 4 weeks except in email. I went to my first Alanon meeting this week. My H went to an event on Sunday with a person who has been a thorn in my side for months now. Shows me he's not proving he wants to be a husband and father very badly.


Me: 39
Him: 37
Together: 9 years
Married: 4.5 years
2.5 year old son

Posts: 256 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Midwest
tryingtwo
♀ Member
Member # 19717
Default  Posted: 4:01 PM, September 24th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

notapuppet, You can read my profile and find that my H and I were separated for quite some time. I would not even consider an R with him until he had been sober for a year. It truely took that long and more before the alcoholic haze started to life and he started to see what he had done not only to me, our life together, our family, but also how he had ruined his employment and how awful he had treated so many people.

Even then it has taken years for him to really realize that alcohol is only one part of the problem within him that allowed him to be so selfish and hurtful for so long.

He came out of the haze and was discusted with him self but he had no real tools to use to change the alcoholic thinking patterns and the self centered thinking of the past.

It has been a long road. He for a while decided he could still drink after he came out of rehab. For 4 months he told me he was sober but was still drinking.

I just cut the cord in a way. Started rebuilding my life so that no matter what happened my life would be fine. His was his own. I figured if they joined up later on, fine, but I was not going to be the touch stone he used anymore to try and make himself feel like he was living a normal life.

I hope Alanon will help give you some support and insight into the mind and actions of an alcoholic. Just take care of yourself and work on rebuilding strength within you. No matter what happens you will be okay and better than okay.

Take care. TT


Innocent people generally want to get to the bottom of things. Guilty people usually want the discussion to be over as soon as possible.

Posts: 10311 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Oregon
HappyMaskOn
♀ Member
Member # 18004
Default  Posted: 9:22 PM, September 28th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow TT. I found myself fidgetting and wringing my hands together while I read your Tahiti story, at the anticipation of where it was going. SO HAPPY for you that your H was able to pass that test and that you were there to see it. Apart from the huge positive affect it has had on you, it must have also given him a new insight into himself and his strength and confidence as well. Congratulations.

I have watched my H test himself with 'just one or two' drinks so many times after a 'no-alcohol' period, just to see if he could stop at one or two. Well, he'll do so well at controlling himself, that the next night it'll be three or four, and by the next week he's into full swing again which continues for months until we hit crisis point again. During these periods every other aspect of our lives is on hold until he comes back into the real world and we pick up the pieces and start moving on again.

We've been dealing with this alcohol cycle on and off for our whole relationship (26yrs), and now packaged with his infidelity, depression and losing his job, well, we're just one big rolling ball of crap right now, gaining momentum and about to hit the fan again.

Ron - a lot of insight in your experience there, harsh to face, but insightful. Thanks.


Don't be fooled by good intentions and promises. Gut instinct and actions speak louder than words.

Posts: 542 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: Australia
somanytears
♀ Member
Member # 18198
Default  Posted: 9:06 AM, September 30th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My H is coming apart at the seams...its been 7 months since DDAY...he has not quit drinking completely...perhaps one beer a day or less...no more than that that I have seen.

No more using porn as stress relief (as far as I know)..doesnt use the computer at home at all.

But hes agitated,irritable...
and last night physical. Yes,he grabbed me.

I know that he is struggling. THAT man is not my H...hes an A,yes and has poor coping skills....but he is fraying at the seams.

He left. Has stayed away all night. Im sure that he drank.
Ive been waiting for the "other shoe" to drop.

His first IC said "he could manage" this. Didnt need to go to AA..didnt necessarily need to quit...but maintain...as he was able to keep it out of the other parts of his life where he
cant drink....work,community...etcetc. I balked at that...he's an A. He's been on good behavior and hes starting to unravel...I can see it,and I cant do a damn thing about it.

Hes seeing a new IC...I get to meet with him this week.

We're imploding.....hes grasping...trying to keep the M....Im still on the fence...he feels me slipping away...and back we go down the road that we came...

I need a hug y'all...I need prayers...if he doesnt face this....REALLY face this. I have to leave. I know this.

It just makes me so damn sad.


"Surviving is important,thriving is elegant"
Maya Angelou


Me--BS (54)
Him--WS (58)
Two young adult kids 27 and 22
DDay 02/10/08
Current status:31 years...sigh.


Posts: 912 | Registered: Feb 2008
tryingtwo
♀ Member
Member # 19717
Default  Posted: 4:18 PM, September 30th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((somanytears))))))

It is the worst feeling in the world when you watch someone you love tearing themselves apart willingly.

Mine climbed in a bottle and couldn't get out. I watched and I screamed. I tried to conjole and pacify. I tried to ignore and I tried to join him. I tried everything to get that man to see he was a drunk. Nothing worked. He had fallen so far away from himself I couldn't reach him.

A good IC should be telling him no booze, none. It always starts with just one beer or one drink. I am so sorry you are going through this. The waiting, the not knowing and the emotional turmoil it puts the spouse of a drunk through is all something I can relate to and I wouldn't want to have anyone have to go through it.

Be strong. You know that tough love may be the only way to save yourself. He must save his own life and sanity. Hugs and prayers for you. I hope the light comes on and he begins to see who he has become and all that he is willing to loose just to have some fermented hops in a glass.


Innocent people generally want to get to the bottom of things. Guilty people usually want the discussion to be over as soon as possible.

Posts: 10311 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Oregon
HappyMaskOn
♀ Member
Member # 18004
Default  Posted: 6:20 PM, September 30th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((hugs for somanytears))

I know exactly where you're coming from. It's torture to see your H doing this to himself. I hope his new IC is switched right on to this situation and can help.

My H is returning to his IC this week after a few months away, so I've got fingers crossed that we'll be able to make another leap in our R.


Don't be fooled by good intentions and promises. Gut instinct and actions speak louder than words.

Posts: 542 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: Australia
Why??
♀ Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 4:18 PM, October 1st (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just checking in. I haven't posted over here since SI was down during Ike. My divorce is now final. I am very sad and can't believe his alcoholism caused this. I need to remember to watch for actions with an A. Several things he mentioned or promised during the D proceedings didn't happen. These were things he told me that weren't in the agreement. I don't know why I half believed him (wishful thinking). He was usually drinking when making the promises so there you have it. He still calls occassionally while drunk and seems to be really progressing at an alarming rate since I left. Hope he hits bottom soon and finds recovery. His family is still in denial and think I caused him to drink and all the problems that followed. Maybe someday they will figure out the truth. I have made peace with the fact that they just don't know any better.

[This message edited by Why?? at 4:26 PM, October 1st (Wednesday)]


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
NewShell716
♀ Member
Member # 20858
Default  Posted: 11:10 AM, October 4th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can I get some insight into alcoholics please? No one in my family has ever had a problem with alcoholism, however, my former F & the reason I landed on SI is if not already an alcoholic, then on his way to being one. His sister calls him a "functioning alcoholic" meaning he still goes to work, etc.

His OW is a bona fide alcoholic, been through detox, AA, lost her job as a nurse because she was stilling pain meds - the whole 9 yards.

Former F & I are 100% done. As a matter of fact, we just had a very good conversation - probably the most honest we've ever been with each other in the 18 months we've known each other.

He's decided that he's going to move to FL where OW is to really give them a chance to see if they can make their relationship work. I asked him if he that meant he had decided to give up drinking. HE SAID NO!! She feels that she's far enough along in her recovery that she can deal with his drinking & not get drawn back in to it. He did say that when he gets down there he will probabaly keep his alcohol behind lock just in case. But if it gets to be a problem, then he'll have to decide then if it (their relationship) means enough for him to try to quit, or he'll just know FOR SURE then that they can't be together.

Ok - to me this sounds like a train wreck waiting to happen! By definition, alcoholics can't control themselves around alcohol, right?? IF it becomes a problem??? Sounds more like WHEN it becomes a problem.

I even said to him, if you really love this woman you ought to care enough about her that you will give up something that you know is going to cause her pain & harm. He doesn't 'see' it that way - it's HER responsibility not to get out of recovery!! WTF?!?!?

I think I just saw a really big picture of total fog infusion on BOTH sides! Holy crap!!!

I really want to try to understand this kind of thinking - and not because I want him back. I so totally 100% do not - alcohol was only 1 part of our problem. But I would like some insight please!

Thanks so much!


Me BF 47
Him WF 46
ONS 7/4/08 (or so I thought)
DD 7/5/08
False R confirmed 9/14/08
I'm done......
Tried R again 11/11/08
Lots of hard work/counseling - Married 1/28/09
Marriage is wonderful - still some triggers & bumps, but FWS is worki

Posts: 136 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: VA
Why??
♀ Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 7:11 PM, October 5th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi New Shell,

Sorry you are here but you will learn a lot. "Functional Alcoholics" are basically a stage of the disease. It is progressive and deadly if they don't find recovery. A very good site to learn more is: soberrecovery dot com then click on the friends and family forum. There you will see others who are dealing with alcoholics. Also read the information stickys at the top of the forum.

My XWH is a "functional" alcoholic right now meaning he hasn't lost his job YET. They describe how the alcoholics will eventually lose everything if they don't seek recovery.

Hang in there. SI is very supportive as is the SR (soberrecovery site).

[This message edited by Why?? at 4:12 PM, January 15th (Thursday)]


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
NewShell716
♀ Member
Member # 20858
Default  Posted: 7:40 PM, October 5th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the link Why. I just had a very disturbing conversation with ex-F. He & OW are so in denial it's actually pretty sad. He's willing to do anything in his power to help her, except the 1 thing she really needs - to stop drinking. It's a new feeling to feel sorry for the OW. But he is just gonna screw her up again & no human being deserves to go through what she's been through before.

He was angry with me for saying that he needed to decide to stop & then actually stop before he moved down there. Evidently his brother & another friend have told him the exact same thing & he's not happy that we're all "ganging up" on him. All that guilt must be a terrible thing....


Me BF 47
Him WF 46
ONS 7/4/08 (or so I thought)
DD 7/5/08
False R confirmed 9/14/08
I'm done......
Tried R again 11/11/08
Lots of hard work/counseling - Married 1/28/09
Marriage is wonderful - still some triggers & bumps, but FWS is worki

Posts: 136 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: VA
tryingtwo
♀ Member
Member # 19717
Default  Posted: 9:16 PM, October 5th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

An intesting note about alcoholism that you may not know is that it is a progressive disease whether a person drinks or not. In that someone can be sober for a long time and if they go off the wagon they will not revert to where the disease was when they stopped, but to where they would have been if they had continued to drink all that time.

My aunt is very involved with AA and I have spoken with her on many occasions about alcoholics and also went to some AA meetings with her to get some insight. This tidbit was one I learned.

My husband still doesn't believe this but i have seen alcoholics stay dry for years and then start to drink and their disease is much, much worse.

Just thought I would share.


Innocent people generally want to get to the bottom of things. Guilty people usually want the discussion to be over as soon as possible.

Posts: 10311 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Oregon
NewShell716
♀ Member
Member # 20858
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, October 6th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've finally gotten to the place where I can say, oh well! It's your life & your decision. I'm just gonna start referring to them as King Tut & Cleopatra - the king & queen of Denial!


Me BF 47
Him WF 46
ONS 7/4/08 (or so I thought)
DD 7/5/08
False R confirmed 9/14/08
I'm done......
Tried R again 11/11/08
Lots of hard work/counseling - Married 1/28/09
Marriage is wonderful - still some triggers & bumps, but FWS is worki

Posts: 136 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: VA
notapuppet
♀ Member
Member # 16480
Default  Posted: 2:39 PM, October 6th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TT, I wanted to let you know that I finally read your profile. Holy crap. I thought I had been through a lot in my life. You've certainly been to hell and back.

As for me, I'm currently separated from my H due to a restraining order. I still believe he is drinking. Comes from a big family of drinkers and they are still drinking around him. Well, DHS is about to come crashing down on their party as I have snitched that they have drank with my son present. I'm just trying to put my son and his safety first.


Me: 39
Him: 37
Together: 9 years
Married: 4.5 years
2.5 year old son

Posts: 256 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Midwest
somanytears
♀ Member
Member # 18198
Default  Posted: 2:41 PM, October 6th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you guys for your support and your insight...I know that I probably belong here more than anyother forum
on SI,unfortunately.

I met with FWH's IC last week...he struck me as a straight shooter...called me on a few things and then we got to the "nitty gritty"...the addiction (s).
I could tell by his reaction when I referred to the alcohol abuse that H hadnt really discussed it with him.
Sigh. Im not suprised. Also NOT surprised that H's focus was "all of the arguing"...my inability to "let anything go"....riiight.

IC ended the session by asking me to think over using him as our MC...and then asked me if I had any questions...and I asked if he was comfortable addressing the alcohol and possible sex addiction. He said "yes"....didnt balk...didnt say it wasnt his "area"....THANK GOD. Finally.

H sees him this week...stay tuned.....and thank you each again,for understanding...for your love and your hugs..I could feel them last week. I sure needed them...thanks,guys. Truly.
Im in a better place knowing that Im not alone.

[This message edited by somanytears at 2:43 PM, October 6th (Monday)]


"Surviving is important,thriving is elegant"
Maya Angelou


Me--BS (54)
Him--WS (58)
Two young adult kids 27 and 22
DDay 02/10/08
Current status:31 years...sigh.


Posts: 912 | Registered: Feb 2008
tryingtwo
♀ Member
Member # 19717
Default  Posted: 12:35 AM, October 9th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

somanytears,
It is a lonely place to love an alcoholic. It is really hard to combat a bottle of booze. Another woman, well at least we have something to fight with, or hate, or be better than or at least we can be in the game. A bottle is a hard foe.

I had no idea how much my husband drank. He was very good at hiding his secrets including his addiction. I saw all the changes in him and yet it happened so slowly that as the bottle was inching inside of him and he was pushing me out I just didn't realize it, or recognize it for what it was.

I was so lonely for so long. I found myself alone in a marriage. My husband had traded me in for a bottle. How could I compete. The OW came after that. After I started calling him on his drinking. I became the enemy of the booze and they were willing partners in alcoholism, then sex.

I have my husband back. Sober. He has found himself again. It was hard for him to face what he had made of his life and our marriage. Hard for him to look at how he had treated me. Hard for me too.

It gets lonely sometimes loving an alcohlic. Just wanted you to know, you don't have to be alone anymore at least not in your pain.

Just thinking about you tonight.


Innocent people generally want to get to the bottom of things. Guilty people usually want the discussion to be over as soon as possible.

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