I have embraced acceptance, detatchment, letting go, working on my own side of the street, and many other things. Our relationship was going fantastic.
He admitted that he had started seeing another woman while we were separated, but I had suspisions and found out 3 wks later that he was started having an A with her before I kicked him to the curb.
Because of my recovery and where our relationship stood by that point, I decided to try R. Things have been going well. He is still using and drinking, but I feel stronger and better than I would have if I hadn't started my recovery from codependency.
My self esteem sure didn't need the blow of an A, but because it was improving by that point, and I had learned a lot of lessons from facing my lifelong struggle with codependency, I was able to pull it together and face the situation. In fact, if I hadn't begun my own recovery I would have been his doormat still to this day. I would be miserable in our relationship, hating my self, and he would be continuing to have his cake and eat it too with the OW.
So yes, it is a fine line, but in my situation I would never have been able to continue in this relationship if I wasn't taking care of myself first and foremost. I never would have found out about the A. I never would have recognized our communication issues. I wasn't in our relationship in a healthy way. Not that he was either, but his behavior is not under my control. I can only control myself, and I was not happy with my behavior in the relationship.
I do not take any responsibility for his A, or his drinking. I take responsibility for my behavior that made our relationship unhealthy. I nagged, I judged, I wouldn't go out with him, and I wouldn't communicate how I was feeling. It was a constant, "You should, you dont, etc" instead of "I feel...". I was a controlling freak who didn't let him be who he was. That has all changed to the best of my current ability.
What happens from here, who knows? Living with an alcoholic is challenging at best. Living with an affair is devastating too. Having both of them in my life is almost unbearable. I accept his demons, and he accepts mine. We are trying to move on from this point. I am not naive to the fact that drug abuse of any kind breeds lies upon more lies, but I am hopeful that we can move forward and beyond that with a new level of acceptance and trust with healthy boundaries in place. I hope that made sense.
I love the posts about working your own recovery while your S is addicted and not recovering, and have felt deeply committed to my M and R for months, yet I think I've reached a point where I"m no longer willing to do all the work. Maybe I'm selfish.
I know awareness and acceptance are critical in life, in general, and practice that as much as possible, but my H got stinking drunk again last night and blew up at me. Again. Still.
He's either drinking or working. And when he drinks, he gets enibriated or however that's spelled. eVery time.
We had agreed to S and end our R on the day he found out about his best friends death. I have been his "solid rock" as he calls it during the last week, the funeral and up until yesterday, when we came back home.
I realized last night that this house is a trigger for me. My home! He brought ow here. I lived here alone with the kids while he lived with her over the summer and we've had fight after horrible fight here since we tried to R. This place, my home, brings me pain.
Then, last night when he got drunk and turned on my from loving to angry, I just went to bed. I didn't feel guilty or ashamed or panicked or weepy, wishing he could just understand and love me. I felt tired and sort of numb. Like, oh it's you again. I thought you were gone.
Today, as predicted, he called me from work apologizing.
This is what he does. He gets drunk, sometimes abuses me emotionally. sometimes doesn't. The point is that I never know what he'll do and the man I love is absent. He leaves me emotionally. and then is soooo sorry the next day. Repeat. For years.
Al anon will help, going back. But I am sure that I don't want this life, the way it is right now.
I told him today that I don't feel I need to move out, or hate him. I'm just sure i don't want this kind of life and that he seems to think he can do what he wants until I"m ready to leave him, then promise to change and then I will stick around.
I feel numb. Part is probably the loss of our friend, and my concern for his young widow and children. The biggest part, though I think, is knowing I want a M that is deep, true, committed and trustworthy. And this aint it.
Life is pretty short and no amount of my love was ever as important as booze was. His alcoholic thinking was so skewed at that point that there was no making sense of him or to him.
After the Aís and my H wanted to R, I demanded sobriety. I just couldnít take any more of the alcoholicís abuse and the drama it put into our lives all the time.
In the end my husband chose to get sober no because of me, but because HIS life was in danger. He didnít care about mine at the time. Not at all, not our daughterís no one but himself. He was all talk, blabber, because his actions spoke way louder than his words.
In my opinion trying to R with a drunk or someone with a drinking problem is a waste of time for a BS. It is a one-sided game that the BS will always lose because you are trying to R with a bottle of booze not the person that he once was.
We separated and my H had to live with himself a while to really understand himself. He didnít have me to blame anymore. I wasnít there to scream at or put down. He looked around and the only one he had to blame was himself. Slowly the brain and body cleared of alcohol, but it took a while for the Sober person to come out.
My husband sober is more like the man I married now than he has been in years. I hadnít realized the affects alcohol had on our lives until it was gone. It had effected everything in our lives. I had not known about the amount he had been drinking, just that his drunkenness had escalated to the point of him self destructing and I refused to go down with the ship.
Take care of yourself. There is life without the booze, drama and mean drunk. It is a much better life. Either he can join you in that sober life or not, but really consider drawing a line in the sand. Booze or meÖ.no other option.
When we were younger and less experienced, that was easier to do. As we accumulate life experiences, we look back and think "if only I had ..." done this or said that. We create the illusion that we should be able to control our environment. The sad fact is that the harder we try to control people and circumstances, the more out-of-control our life becomes. We have to relearn or redefine "faith".
One of the most ludicrous statements a fellow AlAnon-er made to me was that I would learn to be thankful for my alcoholic because he brought me to AlAnon. I was sure she was NUTS!!! but she was right. I have learned so much about myself and I am learning to trust others again. Everything does happen for a reason. I may not see it at the time but I do learn from it.
I am one that could not envision R with my H unless he stopped drinking. There are people in AlAnon that have family members who are active alcoholics and they do very well. You can't very well divorce your parents, siblings or children. Even though you don't approve of their choices, you can still love them and have a relationship with them ... on YOUR terms. This is where learning to set boundaries and enforce them is important.
Loving an alcoholic isn't easy or fun, but it can teach us valuable lessons.
What IDLW says is true,
An active alcohlic cares about NOTHING but themselves.
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the progress he(or she) does not become a monster."
Dust Bunny, you rock!
Careful! I might get a big head ... er bigger head.
All of this stuff I had to learn the hard way, same as everyone else in this thread. Very often I have to relearn it. I'm glad it helped you.
(((everyone that is hurting)))
Two EXCELLENT books: Getting Them Sober volume i & volume ii. The series is by Toby Rice Drews. I could only find Volume one on the book sites:
Getting them sober Vol. I
The whole series is available here:
Getting them sober web site
Things were getting pretty bumpy. Then he got a DUI. Then he started recovery. Then he had the A. Why do
ws's do that?
The A about did us in and now I discover he is drinking again.
I also wanted to add...my ws
didn't have the head games, alter ego, he has now. It almost seems the A (which I think the guilt of is part of what has driven him back to drinking.) has warped his spirit. (I know how that sounds, but I can't explain it any other way.)
I'm not sure where I'm going with this,but I agree that the return to very active alcoholism and the guilt and shame of the affair and not being able to handle my pain have made him a mess that I don't really care to be around right now.
Ok, SQ is back from Rehab, dilegently attending aftercare and two weeks of out patient and going to meetings.
This is DDay antiversary.
She is very very committed to her sobriety, but she is putting boundries about the A. She told me about two ONS, from years ago right before she went in. These have not been processed.
She broke NC, right before she went in. Claims it was a drunken rambling message. Three and half minutes of messsage??- Bullshit!!!! Doesn't want to talk about it, says "I told you the truth, I don't lie anymore." WTF!!!!!
We have two wee ones at home, so I haven't gotten to Al-Anon, but I am not sure what to expect.
I am seeing a degree of selfishness that is astounding on top of years of selfishness. WTF???
I should be happy, but I am having problems being happy. I have started not sleeping well, because I am waiting for the next shoe to drop.
WTF to I do?
Oh and Great
\/ 500 fucking post on an infidelity web site. FUCK
[This message edited by HaiHaus at 3:01 PM, February 2nd (Monday)]
Living sober is another thing.
Thinking sober is another one altogether.
Going to meetings is what will help her live sober and stay sober. The thinking sober takes more time. The alcoholics mind is still functioning with an alcoholics brain, mindset and yes, selfishness.
Me and my booze. The no booze so it becomes me and my soberiety. That isn't bad except when you are like me and you and have went through years of pain because of our alcoholics and when they finally get sober we have years and years of shit they have neglected, then it is really hard not to get pissed off much like you are. With good reasons I might add.
Until she becomes stable in the soberiety she needs to focus there. Until she is stable she will not have much to give you and certainly will not be able to handle much in the way of making amends to those she hurt while a drunk.
For me what I did was diconnect a little until my husband could begin to see his own shit and accept that the whole world wasn't out to get him.
An alcoholic is two things. Them and the booze and no alcoholic wants you in the middle. Sober an alcoholic no longer has the booze but still has that defensive posture.
It sucks. Just saying. It does. But she has to be dry for a while, go to meetings for a while and frankly before you committ any more of your efforts you need to see that she can sustain the soberity.
So for now what??? Take care of yourself. Protect your children. Go to Al Anon if can as it will help vent out some of the frustration and give you patterns of behavior to recognize.
I am sorry you have had to deal with this as an A and a drunk are a hellava combination. i know.
My husband has now been sober for 4 yrs. I wouldn't even try to R with him until after he was sober a year. Even then I wouldn't committ to him in the marriage for well over 2 yrs. I had been through a lot and wasn't taking any chance that I would ever have to go back to that hell again.
I hope your wife can stay sober and begin to clear her head of the alcoholics mind.
Prayers for you. tt
Thank you. Thank you for understanding.
Well, I just lost it. Thank god, my office has a door.
After all the pain from the drinking, then the A, then the out-of-control spiral. I don't know how I have been able to hold it together. Thank you for understanding. I need to go to Al Anon, but until she gets out of the out-patient phase, that isn't going to happen unless we get a sitter as the Al anon meetings and the AA meetings are at the same time.
I put my husband so far on the back burner that my feelings for him became totally cold.
I had people that loved me and treated me with love and I sure the hell didn't need him mucking my life up any more.
You do not need to go to AlAnon meetings to research and understand the alcohoic mindset. Dry drunk...it is used to discribe the alcoholic that has stopped drinking but has never addressed the alcoholic brain, the issues, the selfishness the actual day to day living aspects of soberity.
It is this that the alcoholic's spouse had the most problem dealing with. They are now not drinking and so concider themselves...healed. NOT.
It is through the inner discovery and awareness that most alcoholics avoid like the plague that the real soberity begins. Most alcholics use booze to handle all feelings. Once sober they have no way to cope, no skills to use as the booze was their coping skill.
For you...HH...honestly and with all my heart. Stand your ground. Do not give one inch. Keep walking your path forward and by God if you WW catches up, great, if not then you will still be okay.
I read on here the drama that comes with the alcohoic. I lived that drama. Not any more. I walked. In my case he caught up, but damn if I was going to let him draw me in anymore.
I cannot begin to tell you what a weight lifted off of my life when I let go of the alcohlic husband.
Now I call him SoberMan. Like a super hero. He is back to the man I married. No dramas, no hurt, no selfishness. Life without that kind of drama is amazing.
I had forgotten.
I am so happy to be living this life now.
There is such hope HH. Really there is. But stand your ground.
What TT says
I was just going to ask you as well...
Did your WW go to rehab as a condition for R, or did she do it because she wanted too...
I know it is like splitting hairs, but if the intention behind sobriety is...see, I did it for you...it takes a while longer for that sober-brain to kick in, if it does.
Not saying it is impossible...but the motivation for sobriety is important to understanding.
That night she broke NC, called OM 4x. She claims she didn't talk to him and was near his house and wanted permission to park in his Driveway and sleep.
She has said that she came clean about the phone calls and doesn't want to talk about it any more. I am trying to let it go for a while because her sobriety is fragile, but I am getting more and more pissed about the breaking NC.
Today is Dday Antiversary (It was Monday after superbowl) and I am in a foul mood. I keep giving it to G-d, but end up taking it back.
[This message edited by HaiHaus at 10:21 AM, February 5th (Thursday)]
she's been sober for 11 months now. but still WTF!
anyway, way to set boundries for her. she will push them to the limit and try and go beyond.
off to my Al-anon meeting
Never make someone a priority who only makes you an option.
My reality is the fact that it's 4 days post dday and I'm still realing in the painful all-encompasing can't even breath muck. I'm so scared that he'll get caught up in "working the steps" that he'll forget about making me okay with this whole sh**bag. That giving me what I need to heal will take second stage to his recovery. Irony is, one can't happen without the other. It's a paradox.
So, any input I can get from those who have been there or get what I'm saying would be greatly appreciated...
[This message edited by lucylu at 9:01 AM, February 16th (Monday)]