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User Topic: For Those That Love An Alcoholic
DoneThat
♀ Member
Member # 23040
Default  Posted: 7:30 PM, March 7th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I still don't know if he fits the "normal description". But I do question it often. Am I married to an alcoholic. Symptoms?

1. Drinks almost each day. He sits here and has a bottle of wine and a 6 pack and says "Im okay" I hardly had any. Other nights he just has a few o something. If he doesn't drink one day he certainly lets us know so that we understand that he has no problem

2. Gets happy, then sad, then really frustrated. Almost always comes home ready to fight. Lately excuses for leaving and then doesn't talk about it next day.

3. During the day,evening when he drinks he goes thru these stages but, even tho he knows he's upsetting me by doing the later fight thing, he continues and throws it in my face. We have a name for this phase of the eve. It's the grey area. Normal discussion includes "I know you don't want me to do this but I'll deal with you/it tomorrow".

5. Drinks in order to cross what we call "the darkside". During the darkside often uses the expression "I can live with that" or "I can respect that". Odd, yes. But consistant! I believe he does what people call "blackout". This seems to be what he works towards.

4. Defensive when anyone tries to talk to him about her drinking (again)

5. He drinks over work, coming home to family. Calls it work-related and laughs that he should always spend this time with vendors to keep them happy. He always gets drunk at the work picnic!He honestly believes that makes him more fun and loved! I remember the day he was drinking with his boss so that he could "gain respect for doing things the way he was". What a baby, huh?!

Gosh, he isn't painted as a real winner here. It's just the(his) beer talking to me!lol

What is the definition? Some have defined it as a person who needs a drink at a certain time, others that say it has something more to do with how it messes up their day and w/people around them.

[This message edited by DoneThat at 7:33 PM, March 7th (Saturday)]




Posts: 923 | Registered: Feb 2009
momofliketriplet
♀ Member
Member # 22127
Default  Posted: 9:26 PM, March 7th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DoneThat,

My MC said an alcoholic can be someone that has one drink a year.

I just bought "Co-Dependent No More" - I read the first 4 chapters and couldn't breathe I cried so hard. At first I thought, "I'm not co-dependent..my WH is. I have to do everything. He needs me."

I never realized the anger I had towards WH. I was in such a depression.

I'm still reading this book and can't recommend it enough.

Please know you are not alone.

This is a review of the book.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1000/is_n361/ai_9050108


Dday 12/10/08 EA to PA to EA "This is the fear This is the dread These are the contents of my head Do you know how I feel? Why?" Annie Lennox

Posts: 1114 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Cognitive Turmoil
Ebby17
♀ Member
Member # 23174
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, March 11th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NCguy2 - thank you for your post.

My WS started drinking at 11 years old. He's now 39 years old and in rehab for the 4th time in his life. His mom, dad, all 9 aunts and uncles, and his two younger brothers are all cronic alcoholics.

Why didn't I run? Why I thought I could change him of course.

But truly, I know I can't. I'm hopeful that this time will be the time that he can find a little bit of peace that will carry him forward and sad that I need to go my own way while he finds his.

It's hard to realize that, but it's a first step to getting myself back and letting go of the things I can't control. Gives me some perspective that I should have never tried to in the first place, but am wiser now and have a lot more help!


BS - 35, WS - 39
No children, but one very loyal dog and three cats.
Married 13 yrs. Total of 17 yrs. together
D-day #1 - 1.16.09 multiple PA's
D-day #2 - 3.9.09 while he was in rehab - EA w/ MOW#2
D-day #3 - 5.12.09 The whole ugly truth - M

Posts: 56 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: Buffalo, NY
steppingstone
♂ Member
Member # 23196
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, March 13th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have not read all the posts here...but I was an alcoholic. I started at 13 years old and it went from there. AA has helped ALOT in everyday life. I am glad I got involved with that program, it has been 2 years without a drink.....sadly, I didn't recognize the alcoholic pattern in my wifes life, and she soon found herself seeking treatment.


I can't change how she will act or what she will do, all I can do is focus on what I can change in myself.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: here
1DLW
♀ Member
Member # 21971
Default  Posted: 1:49 PM, March 13th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DoneThat,
I found this in the book Women,Sex and Addiction. I find it applied to me as an alcoholic,

Five Basic criteria used to determine addiction:
Powerless to stop at will
Harmful consequences
Unmanageability in other areas of life
Escalation of use
Withdrawal upon quitting

It's not how much or how little one drinks, it's about what it does to us.


WS 42

Posts: 483 | Registered: Dec 2008
tryingtwo
♀ Member
Member # 19717
Default  Posted: 8:21 PM, March 13th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted this a while ago in another forum, but thought i would post it here as the topic seems to be coming up.

Alcoholism experts define a "standard drink" as 12 ounces of beer, 1.5 ounces of 72-proof distilled spirits, or 5 ounces of wine, all of which contain approximately .54 ounces of alcohol.

Below are the stages of alcoholism. Please be reminded that a lot of people think that alcoholics are the stage 3 or 4 type, but as you can see the stages of alcoholism define behaviors of an alcoholic long before they reach bottom, or the later stages.

I hope this information helps. I can’t answer if your husband has a drinking problem or not but maybe this will help guide you and make you more aware of the stages.

The following represents some of the classic alcoholic behaviors in the first stage of alcoholism:
• Increasing tolerance
• Lack of recognition by the person that he or she is in the early stages of a progressive illness
• Gross Drinking Behavior - more frequent drinking of greater amounts
• A conscious effort to seek out more drinking opportunities
• An ability to drink great amounts of alcohol without any apparent impairment
• Drinking is not social but a psychological escape from stress and problems
• Boasting and a "big shot" complex

Second stage:
• Increasing physical problems
• More frequent blackouts
• Denial
• Increasing tolerance
• Drinking because of dependence rather than for stress relief
• Sporadic loss of control
• Blaming problems on others and on things external to themselves
• Sneaking extra drinks before social events
• Unsuccessful attempts to stop drinking
• Feelings of guilt and shame
• Chronic hangovers

Third stage:
• Avoidance of family and friends
• A decrease in alcohol tolerance
• Serious financial, relationship, and work-related problems
• Neglect of necessities such as food
• The development of an alibi system - an elaborate system of excuses for their drinking
• Aggressive and grandiose behavior
• Eye-openers
• Increasing tremors
• Loss of interests
• The start of physical deterioration
• Loss of control has become a pattern
• Half-hearted attempts at seeking medical aid
• Frequent violent or destructive behavior
• A decrease in alcohol tolerance
• An increase in failed promises and resolutions to one's self and to others
• Unreasonable resentments
• Problems with the law (e.g, DUIs)
• The development of an alibi system - an elaborate system of excuses for their drinking
• Loss of willpower

Fourth Stage:
• Vague spiritual desires
• Benders, or lengthy intoxications
• Persistent remorse
• Moral deterioration
• The realization of being out of control
• Indefinable fears
• The possibility of alcoholic psychosis
• Impaired thinking
• The "DTs"
• Devaluation of personal relationships
• Loss of tolerance for alcohol
• Unreasonable resentments and hostility toward others
• "The shakes"
• An obsession with drinking
• Nameless fears and anxieties such as feelings of impending doom or destruction
• The collapse of the alibi system
• Continual loss of control
• Auditory and visual hallucinations

[This message edited by tryingtwo at 8:23 PM, March 13th (Friday)]


Innocent people generally want to get to the bottom of things. Guilty people usually want the discussion to be over as soon as possible.

Posts: 10311 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Oregon
momofliketriplet
♀ Member
Member # 22127
Default  Posted: 9:14 PM, March 17th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Who needs another forum to join right?

But, I wanted to share this. If you click the chat room 2 they have al-anon meetings online. It's been very helpful to me. I am going to face to face meetings, but have 3 small children and find I can't always go out.

I wanted to share this in case anyone else needed support and was struggling.

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=42727


Dday 12/10/08 EA to PA to EA "This is the fear This is the dread These are the contents of my head Do you know how I feel? Why?" Annie Lennox

Posts: 1114 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Cognitive Turmoil
Why??
♀ Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, March 21st (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question for those whose ws/xws found recovery. Did you get an "amends" even if you were D'ed?

I haven't heard from xwh in over 3 months and wonder if he is in recovery. My therapist says if he was in real recovery I should receive an amends. Not sure what step this is in the recovery process either


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
tryingtwo
♀ Member
Member # 19717
Default  Posted: 4:00 PM, March 21st (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

here you go Why the 12 steps.

I am not divorced but making amends for the wrongs done to others is a pretty big thing for those truely in recovery. Also a very hard step.

Step 1 - We admitted we were powerless over our addiction - that our lives had become unmanageable
Step 2 - Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity
Step 3 - Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood God
Step 4 - Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves
Step 5 - Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs
Step 6 - Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character
Step 7 - Humbly asked God to remove our shortcomings
Step 8 - Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all
Step 9 - Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others
Step 10 - Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it
Step 11 - Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood God, praying only for knowledge of God's will for us and the power to carry that out
Step 12 - Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to other addicts, and to practice these principles in all our affairs


Innocent people generally want to get to the bottom of things. Guilty people usually want the discussion to be over as soon as possible.

Posts: 10311 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Oregon
Why??
♀ Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 4:35 PM, March 22nd (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi tryingtwo,

Thanks for posting the steps. They are very close to the Alanon steps. So did your ws make amends to you as in Step #9?

I am not holding my breath for an amends. Last I spoke with him he still had so much anger in his voice at me and still blaming me for everything. Maybe someday but my life must go on...

[This message edited by Why?? at 4:36 PM, March 22nd (Sunday)]


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
momofliketriplet
♀ Member
Member # 22127
Default  Posted: 5:58 PM, March 23rd (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why?? My WH has not made ammends with the family he hurt and I'm not speaking about mine.

It could be difficult for him as we all verbally agreed to NC. Maybe he feels that would break NC or maybe he cannot face what he has done. What I have realized is it's not up for me to decide when he makes ammends.

He may never get there and I need to accept it.


Dday 12/10/08 EA to PA to EA "This is the fear This is the dread These are the contents of my head Do you know how I feel? Why?" Annie Lennox

Posts: 1114 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Cognitive Turmoil
tryingtwo
♀ Member
Member # 19717
Default  Posted: 6:51 PM, March 23rd (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Why,
Yes, he made amends to a friend that he had lied to and ripped money off of him.

He made amends to his parents by being a better son, being there for his mother when his dad died and by trying to bring his brother into soboriety. That one didn't work but his folks appreciated the try.

For me the list of things he needed to makes amends for was too long to address each one. Truely.

He made amends by doing things around our home that he had not done in years.

He stopped the other distructive behaviors and started being there for me.

My mother was dying of cancer during the A and after he died he helped in many ways like hauling stuff out of her house to the dump, lifting things and moving them, helping at the garage sale and things like that.

He started coming home and helping me, offering to help with dinner, clean up and things like that. Never did that before and as i was grieving for my mom, it helped me a lot.

He said out loud how much he hurt me and promised to make himself a better person. He has.

No booze, none. Stayed sober.

I guess in making amends to me it was like he took the time to pay attention or try to understand my side of things which was totally and completely foreign to him.

He can never truely make up to me all the years he took away from my life or all the tears I shed on lonely nights. I didn't expect that he could. He has done what he can do and seems to be trying to prove to me that I can count on him, that he will not fall or fail again.

I think that believing it can happen and it happening are two different things. I only dealt with actions, not words. Words don't mean much to me any more.


Innocent people generally want to get to the bottom of things. Guilty people usually want the discussion to be over as soon as possible.

Posts: 10311 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Oregon
1DLW
♀ Member
Member # 21971
Default  Posted: 7:23 PM, March 24th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why,
The steps can take a VERY long time for some people.
The 4th and 5th step are usually the hardest. I was at least 6 months into recovery before I finished those 2 steps. Step 9 (making amends) takes some time also. You need to make a plan of how to make amends to those you need to. Your X may not be there yet. I didn't contact my EX to make an amends, I felt that contacting him would be hurtful. I ran into him one day,we talked and I made my amends then.


WS 42

Posts: 483 | Registered: Dec 2008
Why??
♀ Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 8:42 PM, March 24th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, momofliketriplet, tryingtwo, and IDLW for repsonding. It helps me to see how those in real recovery treat the ones they hurt the most. I didn't realize working of the steps took so long, IDLW but it does make sense if one is wanting sobriety and working with a sponsor that it will take time. I'm kind of tired of thinking about all this right now... I had a bad dream about xwh that I won't bore you all with except for the fact that he wasn't recovered, had a fiance and was trying to use me as ow while drunk...Guess my brain is trying to finish processing this trauma while I sleep. Thanks again & good night - hopefully better dreams
tonight (I hope).

[This message edited by Why?? at 8:44 PM, March 24th (Tuesday)]


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
momofliketriplet
♀ Member
Member # 22127
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, March 28th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Does anyone else have an alcoholic spouse that lies over STUPID little things? I mean the affair was a big huge thing, but when I confront him on things, I get STUPID answers I know are not true.

Can't necessarily prove them, and wondering if it's worth the argument.


Dday 12/10/08 EA to PA to EA "This is the fear This is the dread These are the contents of my head Do you know how I feel? Why?" Annie Lennox

Posts: 1114 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Cognitive Turmoil
tryingtwo
♀ Member
Member # 19717
Default  Posted: 5:36 PM, March 28th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Alcoholic=lying
Infidelity=lying

Both require lying. Lying about themselves, who they really are and what they are doing.

Even after my husband was sober the alcohlic and the cheater kept lying, big things, small things. It was so ingrained in him that lies were the very first thing that came out of his mouth even when a lie wasn't required and the truth would have been fine.

Yep, it is part and parcel of the disease.


Innocent people generally want to get to the bottom of things. Guilty people usually want the discussion to be over as soon as possible.

Posts: 10311 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Oregon
Why??
♀ Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 7:21 AM, April 4th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

*bump*


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
healingtree
♀ Member
Member # 15467
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, April 4th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Throughout my FWHs drinking, and before, regarding some things in his past, he lied quite a bit.

If I had to say now, with 20 months of sobriety behind him, and lots of changes, he doesn't lie about little things a whole lot - hardly at all actually.

Fact is, when he was doing what he was doing, he always kept his story as close to the truth as possible...um...just leaving out the parts that I would be upset about like picking up a ho at the bar I knew he was hanging out at.

My XH lies to this day about EVERYTHING even though I don't care.

I think, although it has been a challenge, my sober FWH has made the effort to be honest even when he knows it will upset me.

The last time he left out some details regarding an ex-friend because he thought it would upset me, my gut honed right in on "something is wierd"...and a few weeks later we figured out the issue.

So, he knows that being honest with me is going to help both of us be happier in the long run.

I know what you mean about lying about the little things - and I think it is based in self-worth - which is an issue with both alcholics and cheaters in general.


FBS 1st D-day 7-11-07, 2nd DDay Post-Breakup in 8-12
HIM - Doesn't Matter Anymore
The only thing we can change about the past is how we look at it.

Posts: 8329 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Here and Now
NCguy2
♂ Member
Member # 8002
Default  Posted: 9:48 PM, April 9th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bump from a guy once married to drunk.


His name is Robert Paulsen

Posts: 1725 | Registered: Aug 2005 | From: NC
momofliketriplet
♀ Member
Member # 22127
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, April 19th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm bumping again. I just wanted to share I've gone to 3 f2f meetings now and several online Al-Anon meetings and it's an incredible self esteem builder for ANYONE who is lacking right now (me<<---)
Anyways, I find a lot of the common themes in Retrouvaille and Al-Anon have really helped me.
MOLT


Dday 12/10/08 EA to PA to EA "This is the fear This is the dread These are the contents of my head Do you know how I feel? Why?" Annie Lennox

Posts: 1114 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Cognitive Turmoil
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