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User Topic: For Those That Love An Alcoholic
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 8:20 PM, January 27th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am lost here....

Is wild mood swings a part of alcoholism? Changing feelings from moment to moment? Rage and paranoia?

How bad is it if he is drinking approximately 4 nights a week, about 20 beers and a few shots a night; passes out from time to time, diarrhea, and losing weight.

When he doesn't drink the night before, a lot of times that day he is agitated and irritable. Sometimes gets the sweats, or kind of nauseous. Is that withdrawal?

I've done some looking online but am having a surprisingly hard time figuring this stuff out, and am trying to figure out what to expect here.....


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14918 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
cautiousoptimist
♀ Member
Member # 24222
Default  Posted: 9:42 PM, January 27th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Naive-

It's bad, hon.

20 beers??? Who drinks 20 beers? Shots on top of that?
Jeez, that would make anyone moody, irritable, rageful, etc! That is super crazy! (If you need some confirmation of what is surely apparent to you.)

The shakes and nausea are withdrawal, yes.

Withdrawal from alcohol is often LIFE THREATENING. It must be medically supervised.

IlinoisGirl and Naive and Heart- I haven't read this book, but it was recommended by a lot of people:

Marriage on the Rocks.

In it, it apparently states that sooner or later EVERY alcoholic is unfaithful because sooner or later the spouse/partner realizes that the drinking is out of control and wants to stop doing it; so they find themselves a "drinking" partner.

My FWH swears he would never have had his ONS's if he had been sober-by sober I mean "not drinking at all in his life" as opposed to "drinking that day."

But it's hard for me to imagine as he was always a huge addict/alcoholic since the day I met him. He would pull some parts under control (quit smoking crack, for example, and stayed off that for years; had a relapse during a "recreational" cocaine spree) but other parts never (chronic weed smoker, swore he's never stop).

However, after his 2nd DUI (and me discovering he was LYING about being sober off alcohol for TWO YEARS), I kicked him out and told him if he wanted to come back he had to go to rehab.

He has been clean and sober from ALL substances for 10 months now.

I found out about his ONS's about 6 weeks into his rehab stay.

It's been a fucked up ride. His emotions are scarcely present. He is having to re-learn how to exist and do just about everything sober.

I'm trying to be patient.

It's hard.

But I feel like I wanted this for so long, the chance to live our lives outside the shackles of substance abuse. We will see.


Me: BW, 43
Him: FWH, 50, alcoholic/drug addict in rehab, staying sober
D-day:4/30/09
Marriage 11 years
In R, doing our best
I will have it even so.

Posts: 652 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: san diego
betrayed1012
♂ Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 10:05 PM, January 27th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((NaiveAgain)))

I'm sorry. Yes, he is an alcoholic. And, just cautiousoptimist said, a person can die from alcohol withdrawal. I didn't know that or the extent of my wife's problem. Like many women she drank alone, at home, and hid her drinking. She had a very bad withdrawal on her own because I didn't know what was happening or know enough about alcoholism.

Agitated, irritable, shakes etc are all signs of withdrawals. If he goes 48 hours he could go into DTs and start seeing all kinds of things. Call 911 and get him to a hospital if he does.

Don't expect miracles just because he quits drinking. It is a long hard road for the alcoholic to maintain. My WS just relapsed for the 8th time since June and I guess stopped drinking today, maybe. She doesn't live here as I couldn't have the children exposed to it any longer. She had an affair with a guy she met in detox. She won't give him up. Says they have a special bond she says. She went to his apartment to relapse and she can't see that he is just part of her addiction.

As bad as it sounds, there is hope. People do end up in recovery. They are never cured, only in a state of recovery. There is always hope.

Take care of yourself. Learn to detach from his problem. It will suck you in and consume you if you don't. Consider going to Al-Anon, not for him but for you. You need to heal from the effect of this disease, too. You didn't cause it, and you can't cure it.

[This message edited by betrayed1012 at 10:12 PM, January 27th (Wednesday)]


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
tryingtwo
♀ Member
Member # 19717
Default  Posted: 12:54 AM, January 28th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NaiveAgain do listen to what others are saying about the medical aspects of withdrawl.

My husband was working out of town. He fell into the bottle bad. He tried to stop on his own and his blood pressure went through the roof. He got himself to a doctor and the doctor told him that he was on the verge of a stroke. That if he didn't keep up the drinking until he could get into detox he would most likely have a stroke or die. Period.

My husband drank enough alcohol to keep him from having a stroke until he went into detox. From what he tells me they had to drug him up quite a bit during detox and he was monitored 24/7.

No alcohol and he got the shakes, nausia, head aches, rapid heart beat, the high blood pressure.

It is to be taken seriously. And yes, your husband is an alcoholic.

I am sorry that we have to give you such hard truths but it is important that you know.

(((((NaiveAgain)))))


Innocent people generally want to get to the bottom of things. Guilty people usually want the discussion to be over as soon as possible.

Posts: 10311 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Oregon
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, January 28th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you so much for the warnings. I will watch him for any bad signs and get him to the hospital if he starts showing any signs of DT's or hallucinations or the rapid heart beat with nauseau and trembling.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14918 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 7:24 PM, January 28th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay, I have another question. He seems to not need a lot of sleep. He will stay up and drink until he passes out around 3 or 4 or 5 a.m. , then sleep until maybe 9 or 10, then he is up for the day. Is that an alcoholic thing, and how can he keep going like that? I can't believe the abuse he puts his body thru, how long can that stuff last?


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14918 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
Illinoisgirl
♀ Member
Member # 25686
Default  Posted: 9:06 AM, January 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Marriage on The Rocks says

In it, it apparently states that sooner or later EVERY alcoholic is unfaithful because sooner or later the spouse/partner realizes that the drinking is out of control and wants to stop doing it; so they find themselves a "drinking" partner.

I've read the book and it does say that. If you're a nagging shrew at home, they will find a drinking "f**k buddy". Unfortunately, that's about all it says about the subject of affairs. Basically, that it is just another symptom of the alcoholism.

I've been searching for some info or books specifically about infidelity and alcoholism, but haven't had any luck yet. That said, Marriage on the Rocks is a very helpful book if you're married to an alcoholic. I bought it and read it over and over. I would recommend it.

NaiveAgain - I think everyone is different. MY WH slept 12 hours a day when he was drinking. When he was in detox and rehab though, he said he didn't sleep very well.

(((NaiveAgain)))


Married 12 years, together 18
WH - Recovering alcoholic
Me - Recovering wife
Reconciling?
D-Day 9-27-09
3 great kids - 12, 10 & 8

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Eleanor Roosevelt


Posts: 339 | Registered: Sep 2009
hexed
♀ Member
Member # 19258
Default  Posted: 9:21 AM, January 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ditto to what illinoisgirl said.

i've found it frustrating that i couldn't find more info for those of us dealing with both the infidelity and the alcoholism. i will never know if the A was the result of the alcohol or if it would've happened anyway.

i think its a combo thing. the part of his personality that opens him up to being an alcoholic is the same thing that led to the A.

his A was a classic drinking F*** buddy thing. he wanted a partner and he found one.


But that's just a lot of water
Underneath a bridge I burned
And there's no use in backtracking
Around corners I have turned

“Many of us crucify ourselves between two thieves - regret for the past and fear of the future.” -foulton oursler


Posts: 8262 | Registered: Apr 2008
NewTurn
♀ Member
Member # 26399
Default  Posted: 12:19 PM, January 30th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Alcoholism/Addiction is about selfishness and self-centeredness. It is a disease that tells you that you don't have it. That if everyone else would just act right,( do what you won't them to do), then life would be perfect! The alcohol, drugs, affairs, gambling, spending excessively are all symptoms of a spiritual sickness. Anything that changes the way you feel is sought after without regard to who it hurts by you actions, if you are caught up in this disease. The book of Alcoholics Anonymous describes a 'Psychic change" that is necessary to recover. There are a set of "steps" that guide you to a new way of spirtual living. Unfortunally most have to wait until they have hit rock bottom to admit that, maybe what they are doing is not working for them! Sounds very similar to many stories of WS, who wait until after the spouse and children are out of their life to seek any type of help.

[This message edited by NewTurn at 12:23 PM, January 30th (Saturday)]


BW-45
DDay too many to count! Many false R till final DDay Dec 5 2008
Divorced Feb 2009

Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results!


Posts: 51 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Tx
Illinoisgirl
♀ Member
Member # 25686
Default  Posted: 7:28 AM, January 31st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i think its a combo thing. the part of his personality that opens him up to being an alcoholic is the same thing that led to the A.

Absolutely. Low self-esteem, poor coping skills and emotional immaturity are a time bomb for self-destruction in many ways. Unfortunately, they also blow up the people that love them.


Married 12 years, together 18
WH - Recovering alcoholic
Me - Recovering wife
Reconciling?
D-Day 9-27-09
3 great kids - 12, 10 & 8

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Eleanor Roosevelt


Posts: 339 | Registered: Sep 2009
Why??
♀ Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 7:38 AM, January 31st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Boy, hexed you nailed it with this:

i will never know if the A was the result of the alcohol or if it would've happened anyway.

It's especially hard for me with no closure, him never acknowledging any wrong doing on his part, blamed every one of his problems and the drinking on me, no apology/amends, etc. , etc.


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
betrayed1012
♂ Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 9:10 PM, January 31st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why? and hexed:

i think its a combo thing. the part of his personality that opens him up to being an alcoholic is the same thing that led to the A.

I just recently got this again from my WS. I drove her to OP and she didn't know if she could come home as I created an environment that led to the drinking and would be a risk to her sobriety. It suddenly turned out it was me, not the job that she said she wanted to quit that had stressed her to drinking. If true, that would have been a handy bit of information. It is hard to work on something when you didn't know it was a problem. The marriage had some problems, but when I asked her if it was me, she always answered "No, it's not you.".

She says she just wanted to someone who accepted her and supported her. The guy she met in detox that shared a "special bond" with her must do it much better than me. As far as I know she relapsed again with him last Sunday and they are both drunk at his apartment a week later. And, I'm the risk to her sobriety? This is her fourth relapse with him since October. I guess taking her to the ER 4 times prior to meeting him doesn't count as much as getting vodka for her. I guess that was the support she meant...


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
hexed
♀ Member
Member # 19258
Default  Posted: 10:25 PM, January 31st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

betrayed it sounds like sobriety hasn't cleared her fog. i'm so sorry for you alcoholism is the most frustrating thing i've ever dealt with


But that's just a lot of water
Underneath a bridge I burned
And there's no use in backtracking
Around corners I have turned

“Many of us crucify ourselves between two thieves - regret for the past and fear of the future.” -foulton oursler


Posts: 8262 | Registered: Apr 2008
Illinoisgirl
♀ Member
Member # 25686
Default  Posted: 5:54 AM, February 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

betrayed1012...have you ever been to an Al-Anon meeting?


Married 12 years, together 18
WH - Recovering alcoholic
Me - Recovering wife
Reconciling?
D-Day 9-27-09
3 great kids - 12, 10 & 8

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Eleanor Roosevelt


Posts: 339 | Registered: Sep 2009
Illinoisgirl
♀ Member
Member # 25686
Default  Posted: 5:54 AM, February 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

betrayed1012...have you ever been to an Al-Anon meeting?


Married 12 years, together 18
WH - Recovering alcoholic
Me - Recovering wife
Reconciling?
D-Day 9-27-09
3 great kids - 12, 10 & 8

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Eleanor Roosevelt


Posts: 339 | Registered: Sep 2009
betrayed1012
♂ Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, February 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hexed and Illiniosgirl:

I don't view my WS as in sobriety. She can't make it past 30-40 days without relapsing. She is a dry drunk. She won't drink, go to AA meetings, but not make the changes in her life that are required for active and long term sobriety.

I do go to Al-Anon. I would suggest everyone try it. Some meetings are better than others. If you go and get one thing, it was worthwhile.

It is a combo, I think. If not for active alcoholism, my WS, I feel, would not have strayed. The same flaws in alcoholism seem to be in cheaters. The denial, it's not my problem, your spouse or something else caused it. Both don't seem to own or accept responsibility for their actions. Both try to shift the blame away from themselves so they don't have to deal with the pain and guilt.

I feel that an alcoholic in recovery has accepted responsibility and is making changes in their life to enable them to be sober and re-earn the trust of their friends and family. With a WS, I feel they have to do the same.

My WS is in a double fog. Alcoholism changes the brain so even after the last drink they still think like an alcoholic for a long time. My WS needs a lot longer time than 30-40 days to think more clearly. On top of that she thinks she has a "special bond" with the OP. She can't see the bond, the things in common, are their flaws and defects.

Alcoholism is so tough deal with on its own and then to throw betrayal in on top of it...

With both I nor anyone else who loves an alcoholic didn't cause it, can't control it, and can't cure it. It also goes the same for infidelity. It is tough choices they have to make. We only control what we do.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
cautiousoptimist
♀ Member
Member # 24222
Default  Posted: 12:09 AM, February 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm glad you know that, betrayed, because it seems your WS is giving you an awfully long row to hoe.

I'm sorry she isn't defogging properly at all whether alcohol or infidelity. Where is the trouble-shooting manual? Oh yeah, you already discovered she owns it but refuses to open it.

I wish you peace.


Me: BW, 43
Him: FWH, 50, alcoholic/drug addict in rehab, staying sober
D-day:4/30/09
Marriage 11 years
In R, doing our best
I will have it even so.

Posts: 652 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: san diego
betrayed1012
♂ Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, February 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WS and I separated after the A due mainly to her disappearing with the OP for a long weekend drunk. Neither I nor her family knew where she was. I wouldn't let her come home as it was too difficult on our children to have Mommy disappearing and I couldn't tell them she was safe.

After another week of relapse with the OP, the 4th time since they met, I felt I needed to move forward. I filed a divorce complaint.

After I instructed the lawyer to do so, my WS called drunk from the OP's apartment. Said she wanted to be a family again, that she loved me, could I forgive her. She wanted me to come get her. I told her I would not, I had the children and they were not going to see her this way. I asked where she wanted to go for treatment-detox, since she was not come around the children in her condition. She couldn't say. She was worried about going into withdrawals. I told her to call 911. I gather the OP had been passed out for some time. I think she eventually called 911 for him and she had her brother come get her to take her to her mother's, although he dumped out her stash of vodka.

She missed work. Didn't call in sick or anything at all. Just didn't show up to teach her classes. I don't know how that is going to pan out since she had to get a doctor's letter to return to work and didn't make it a month.

She is gone through withdrawals and is still dry as far as I know.

I am moving forward to ensure I have custody of the children and they are in a safe and stable environment. I can't risk her irrational behavior wouldn't put them in danger as I found she has done in the past. I am moving forward to end the disrespect towards our marriage and me.

I had set a boundary of No Contact and she clearly violated that. I've had her call before from his place and say how she loved me only to go back to him, calling him before she could get through being admitted to detox.

How sad it has come to this. Almost 4 months I've waited for her to show some sign of remorse or wanting to be a family. Actions, not meaningless words or empty promises. I've been told by many who specialize in addictions that the OP is part of her addiction now and as long as they are together they will continue to relapse.

I have another boundary that she must be in active recovery. I don't think she is doing that either. She is dry for now, but only going to AA meetings, not working the prgram or with a same sex sponsor. AA also says no new relationships on the first year and that she has clearly ignored with her friend for detox that is so kind and understanding. And, passed out...

She has shown some humility verses the arragance that she displayed after the earlier relapses. I'm not going to say we can't R, but it'll take action on her part that I haven't seen. I'm fairly certain she is still in contact, calls and text with the OP. Nothing will begin until that is over and she is truly in active recovery.

Her alcoholism is very serious. I hope she can learn to manage the disease that will be with her forever, but I don't see how with the OP in the picture.

This is the hardest thing I've ever had to do.

[This message edited by betrayed1012 at 5:56 PM, February 9th (Tuesday)]


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
Illinoisgirl
♀ Member
Member # 25686
Default  Posted: 6:35 AM, February 13th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

betrayed1012, I wish I had some words of wisdom. It sounds like you are doing everything right. Stay strong.


Married 12 years, together 18
WH - Recovering alcoholic
Me - Recovering wife
Reconciling?
D-Day 9-27-09
3 great kids - 12, 10 & 8

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Eleanor Roosevelt


Posts: 339 | Registered: Sep 2009
Illinoisgirl
♀ Member
Member # 25686
Default  Posted: 7:55 AM, February 13th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So this morning I was reading Marriage On The Rocks for the umpteenth time, hoping it will sink in, and I came across this in Chapter 7 (about enablers)

The Other Woman
Enter the villan of the piece. In your eyes, she is the villan, but there is some predictability to this particular enabler. It may not happen to you. It may. It's not a threat to your marriage. It's a symptom of the disease. After all, you don't want to drink with him anymore. You don't want to go to bed with him anymore. You don't want to save him from himself. You know better. She doesn't. She feels she's the only one who understands him. And she will help him to get sicker. The best thing you can do is leave it alone. Do nothing to get in the way of it. His guilt will take over or she will put pressure on for a more permanent relationship. Neither of which is manageable for him.

Ummmm.....It is not a threat to my marriage? Leave it alone?

I am having trouble wrapping my brain around this this morning.

[This message edited by Illinoisgirl at 7:56 AM, February 13th (Saturday)]


Married 12 years, together 18
WH - Recovering alcoholic
Me - Recovering wife
Reconciling?
D-Day 9-27-09
3 great kids - 12, 10 & 8

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Eleanor Roosevelt


Posts: 339 | Registered: Sep 2009
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