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User Topic: For Those That Love An Alcoholic
Clean Slate
♂ Member
Member # 26486
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, July 9th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cautiousoptimist

It's not uncommon for someone who stops drinking, pills etc for them to still feel numb months possibly even years after they have stopped.

Alcoholics and drug users spend so much of there time surpressing there emotions with the drugs and alcohol that it could take some time to get back to "normal". After I stopped drinking I was numb for sometime until I discovered my WW was having an afair then i snapped out of it pretty quickly. Everyone is different and will respond differently to each experience. I hope this helps.


D-Day 12/12/09 The day my world got turned inside out and upside down.

Posts: 74 | Registered: Dec 2009
betrayed1012
♂ Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 12:42 AM, July 10th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My stbxWW is an alcoholic. She's no longer the person I married. She's no longer the caring mother who would do anything for her chldren.

I got her counter to the settlement proposal. She doesn't want to support her children. Says since she doesn't know her employment and financial status she won't agree to anything.

She lost her job as a college engineering professor due to her relapses with the POS OM she met in detox. She was warned and had her class load reduced after failing to show up more than a week.

I took her to court to get child support after she reneged on the consent order agreement I thought we had worked out. The judgge chastised her for continueing a relationship with the POS after her doctor, her expert witness, tesified she should not be in a relationship with another alcoholic, especially in the first year. The judge imputed her salary at what it was because she was willfully unemployed.

After that here she is 3 months later with the same excuse. I can't understand how a person who was once a devoted motheer can turn into such a selfish self-centered being. How all she can think of is getting a settlement so she can just hang out with the POS and not support her children. She no longer wants to be their parent and only seems to want to get 50/50 custody so she won't have to pay CS.

Alcoholism is a horrible disease affecting the whole family. It has her choosing the bottle and her f**kbuddy over supporting her children. She is 52 days dry, but not sober. Sobriety is a changed behavior. This just demonstrates she's still controlled by an alcoholic brain.

I know I can't control an alcoholic, only what I do. I will never agree to any settlement that doesn't support our children. I don't care if she and the POS end up living under a bridge, she has an obligation to her children, alcoholic or not.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
Why??
♀ Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 3:37 PM, July 10th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, Clean Slate for giving your perspective.

It's not uncommon for someone who stops drinking, pills etc for them to still feel numb months possibly even years after they have stopped.

I think this might explain the baffling lack of emotion from my xwh at the news of the death of our dog.

Is there any other disease out there that wrecks so much havoc on so many people? To me, the personality change was the utmost worst of it. Sigh.


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
Why??
♀ Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 3:45 PM, July 10th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, betrayed1012, that is awful how she is behaving and dismissing your children's welfare. This disease s*cks. Who in there right mind would choose a POS active alcoholic to shack up with over their spouse and children. I read on another site that it can take up to 3 years for every trace of alcohol to leave their system.

Keep standing up for your children. They will one day appreciate all that you have done.


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 7:53 PM, July 10th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am so sorry Betrayed!
How awful for you and your children...but,thankfully your children have you to protect them.
I grew up with an alcoholic mother and a father that had severe anger issues, physical abuse etc.
But, the worst thing was that my father was in denial when it came to my mother.
he did nothing to try to protect the children from her.
I was the oldest and took on that role...but, I tell you it's amazing that my younger siblings did not die in car accidents that she got into while drunk etc. etc. (this was the 1960's and cops were very lenient with her...not even a ticket)...
so, the fact that you see her for what she has become and are willing to fight for your children's safety and well being.... says a lot.
She is in a toxic, self destructive tail spin...she has not hit bottom yet.
She has thrown away everything for her addiction.
So sad.
Give those kids a big hug.
Take care of yourself.

[This message edited by njgal480 at 3:09 PM, July 11th (Sunday)]


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
betrayed1012
♂ Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 12:54 AM, July 11th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why?? and njgal480,

Thanks for your supportive words and kind thoughts.

No, she has not hit bottom. She has too much money in her account that forms a safety net, along with she can count on her well meaning mother to come get her when things get rough.

I've got a friend, who like you njgirl480, grew up with alcoholic mother. She said that she faulted her father for not removing them from that environment. My stbxWW disappearing in a relapse with the POS and my discovery of their affair removed any doubts about what I had to do. I removed her from being around our children while actively drinking. I gave her months for get into true active recovery and NC with the POS before I filed for D. I had hoped for R, but not with an active alcoholic and not with her in constant contact with a POS she slept with. Can't be 3 in a marriage.

I already had to get the court order for CS. Her still wanting to bring that to the table just shows me how far gone she is. As you have said, who in their right mind would throw away everything and chose to be in a relationship that AA, her doctor, and therapists say not to be in if she wants to recover? What mother wouldn't want to support her children?

It is tough to see the person you loved and throught you knew doing things so out of charactor. I have to remind myself this is not the person I married, but one under the influence of an alcoholic brain along with the fog of an affair. A brain that can take 3 years w/o alcohol to recover. She only has 52 days dry. I won't say sober as I don't think she has made changes in behavior to be sober or is working the AA program.

If she ever does attain true sobriety, she will have to live with what she has done. If the POS is still around he'll be a constant reminder. Then again, maybe she'll be able to live a life in constant denial...

I appreciate you guys listening and your supportive words. I don't know how I'd make it w/o this site and Al-Anon.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, July 11th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Betrayed....document, document, document....
save everything...emails, voice mails, etc.
so that you can build your case for custody....

52 days of sobriety is definitely not long enough to get out of the 'fog'...
hopefully, the longer your WW manages to stay sober... the more she will come to her senses...
but for now, you are doing the right thing for your children and for yourself...
and actually, for your WW..she needs a Tough Love approach...
you should give your MIL some co-dependency reading material....


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
NCguy2
♂ Member
Member # 8002
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, July 11th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi betrayed1012,

You sound like me five years ago. I learned a little from my experience with an Alcoholic and the pain from her infidelity.

First. Alcoholics lie, thats what they do. It seems to be part of the illness. They lie when they do not have to lie.

Second, drunks love a drunk. They enjoy the comradery of fellow alcoholics. Unfortunately, they often meet up in AA. The infamous Bill W's infidelity was legend. Alcoholic women are easy prey (Willing prey)to men they get to know in their "secret" sessions.

Third, some say 70% of alcoholics never beat their illness. They may have many years of sobriety, then fall off the wagon again...and again.

You said "She's no longer the person I married." You are correct. It took me a long time to get that through my head. Alcohol changes them. They will never be the same person. This is not to say that there is not hope....but they do change, and we must accept or move on.

I started this thread some years ago. (Pats self on back.) This is actually the second thread by this same title. First one got too big.

This was the link (http://survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=75405) It may not exist anymore due to server space, but perhaps a moderator can help retrieve it for those who may wish to purvue its contents. There was some good info there on alcoholism posted by a lot of us SI gray panthers!

Do try the "friends and family" forum at the sober recovery website. You will find a lot of useful stuff there. http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/friends-family-alcoholics/

I always recommend nytepassions lament on loving an alcoholic......and it's well worth reposting again and again.

"Alcoholics and addicts always require more, more, more of everything that makes em' feel good ... even relationship wise (more of us ... less of themselves) more, more ... more us, less, lesser of them .. and this goes on and on and oneday we find ourselves wondering what the hell happened (we've given so much of ourselves over to our alcoholic loved one) that we have nothing left, but a memory of what we once were and the reality of what we've become is devastating ... We've consistantly weakened and yeilded living our lives for and around the alcoholic, his/her alcoholicism and the behavior thereof for so long, being caught up in trying to change the alcoholic, save the alcoholic, rescue the alcoholic, sacraficing ourselves for the alcoholic ... the alcoholic, the Alcoholic, the AlCoHoLiC... morning, noon and night .. day in day out it spent all around and being all about the ALCOHOLIC and what he/she is or isn't doing or what she/he has or hasn't done, what they said or didn't say, whether they used or didn't use ... that by the time we actually plop down from sheer exhaustion and try to take a moment to breath or to think ... We are devastated at what not only what our lives have become, but more so what we've become in the process of trying to keep our alcoholic loved one away from and off of booze ...

and then we begin the journey into trying to understand what the hell has and is happening to your life ... then to top things off you find that in order to make things better for you and for the ALCOHOLIC you have to let go and Let God ... then the fear sets in, "But what if" what if I let go and he/she gets hurt, or something bad happens or worse (our biggest fear)she/he ends up dead ... So we try to hold on only to find we've been holding our alcoholic loved one up and keeping their feet from touching the ground ... in other words (holding up the alcoholic out of fear they will get hurt ... instead of letting go and letting them fall and realizing that the pain from the fall is just what the doctor ordered) Pain can be beneficial .. It can be a motivator, it can be a constant reminder that things need change in theirs and our lives ...

If you find yourself sitting there reading this and you are in pain because of and over your alcoholic loved one ... let that pain motivate you to seek out your recovery, your healing ...

You are not responsible to make it all better for your alcoholic loved one ... They are responsible for their own lives and how they live it ... and if drugs are chosen over all else then the pain, suffering, and consequences that ultimately come with the territory of being a alcoholic belong to the alcoholic and not the loved one of the alcoholic ...

The very pain, consequences, trouble that you are trying to keep from happening to your alcoholic loved one ... Just might be the very thing that would bring them to rock bottom ... Get out of the way and Let the process begin

The longer you fight it ... the harder you make your own life ...

Besides you can't get around, over or under it ... You're going to have to walk through it to get to the otherside ...


It is usually because we are (or we think we are) at our wits end when we begin to look for answers to help us understand ... we read books, talk to counselors, search the net for answers ... some end up here ... searching, asking questions, trying to understand and make some kind of sense out of their lives ... You read, and read and read, step out and post, read replies, reply yourself and the others that have been down the path before you reach out to try to help you ... to try to take your hand and led you out, but are usually met with resistance, unsurity (should I stay or should I go) What will happen to the alcoholic in my life if I let go to find myself ... Will they lose themselves in booze completely ... so you stay behind because your not quite ready to recovery yourself ... You still feel the need to watch over your alcoholic ... You watch and watch as things decline as they decline and you fight, argue, yell, cry, beg, plead, rationalize, try logic .. only to find you've been beating your head against a brick wall and now to top things off you've busted open your head and not only is your head bleeding, but so is your heart ... Bleeding and crying out Please God, Make this all stop ... (gotta get out of the way so he can reach your alcoholic)

This site is an information booth ... You come in all beat up, weathered from the storm ... you ask for directions ... and are given them, but they are no good UNLESS you follow them ... it takes courage, trust, faith, strength and a real desire to change NOT THE alcoholic, but yourself ...

The alcoholic is going to do what the alcoholic does NO MATTER what you do ... and if you're living paralized waiting for the alcoholic to change before you can go on with your life .. then you could be waiting a long, long time .. You think you're exhausted now ... it doesn't get any better till you get better ...

The best gift you can give yourself and your alcoholic loved one is YOUR OWN RECOVERY ... they can't do it for you ... you can't do it for them ... but each can do it for themselves ... and I can say this .. It is easier for the alcoholic to out run you ... so if you plan on tryin to keep up you better get ready to be put through more hell then you've ever know before ...

It stops when you stop it ... "


His name is Robert Paulsen

Posts: 1725 | Registered: Aug 2005 | From: NC
cautiousoptimist
♀ Member
Member # 24222
Default  Posted: 11:30 PM, July 12th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

CleanSlate, thanks. I do know it intellectually but just HOW long is it gonna take???

He teared up at a website of departed pets whose owners had posted photos last night. He was always such a mushy guy, I THOUGHT he was in touch with his feelings. Turns out he didn't really know or analyze what was happening, just felt and reacted.

betrayed, I have a lot of empathy for you, man. You've been handed a rough row to hoe and thank goodness your children have you. I have a feeling one of these days she's going to come crawling back. Frankly, I don't know whether to hope it's not too late or it is when that happens.

Aargh!


Me: BW, 43
Him: FWH, 50, alcoholic/drug addict in rehab, staying sober
D-day:4/30/09
Marriage 11 years
In R, doing our best
I will have it even so.

Posts: 652 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: san diego
MixedUpMess
♀ Member
Member # 15256
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, August 5th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The affects of my husbands long-term drinking are beginning to show. We have been separated for over 3 months now but did vacation together about 2 weeks ago. Some signs were there before we separated but since I have not seen him everyday for 3 months, they are now very obvious. And there are new ones. Mostly it is signs of alcoholic neuropathy. Hes had numbing and tingling in his hands for months and now he has it in his feet.

It was really bad for him after one day of lots of walking. He had to sit down, remove his shoes and socks so he could massage his toes. He blamed it on his shoes shoes I bought him less than 6 months ago so I know its not the shoes. Hes also developed incontinence. We had a long road trip and on 3 occasions we had to sudden make stops on the side of the road so he could pee!

His vision has been declining steadily. He sits 10 away from the computer monitor with the resolution as large as he can get it so he can see even though he had reading glasses on, too.

I was wondering if anyone else had experienced this point of the disease (alcoholism)? Im so scared for him. Is this the beginning of the end? Does he have liver damage? If so, how bad? Ive read up on death from liver failure and it is not pleasant. I just wish there was a way to reach him. If I told him he was killing himself and showed him the info on neuropathy and liver failure, he probably would not care hell end up in the hospital before he gets any help or sees any doctor.

[This message edited by MixedUpMess at 12:15 PM, August 5th (Thursday)]


D-Day: 5-28-2007
Married: 26 years
Me (BS): 48 (Cancer survivor!)
Him (WS)(Alcoholic): 48
DD: 17
False R for 1.5 yrs+
He moved out 5/10. In limbo.

I was sad because I had no shoes. Then I met a man who had no feet.


Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: MD
betrayed1012
♂ Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, August 6th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((MessedUpMess)))

I'm sorry you are going through this. It is tough to love an alcoholic. When I threw my wife's bottle away and forced the issue she was not in as bad a shape as you described. She did go see a doctor. The liver was enlarged, but not to the point it wouldn't recover. Her white blood count was off due to damage to the marrow. Her complexion was splotchy due to tiny blood vessels bursting under the skin, with men it is more in the nose than the cheeks.

You are right. You can tell an alcoholic anything you want, but until they want to change it won't help. She went out and bought a bottle of vodka the day she got the results from the doctor that her liver was recovering. She relapsed repeatedly for the last year about once every month for 3 dsys to 3 weeks. She hooked up with the guy she met at detox that was supposed to be helping her as he as accepting, they had a special bond, and he could relate to her problem. She relapsed just as often, just as long, and he is gladly there as long as she is buying.

You can't control what he does. You need to detach with love. You can't save him, only he can save himself and only he can say when he will do that. Some people never recover.

You need to take care of yourself. Control only what you can: your actions.

My thoughts and prayers are with you. It is so hard to watch the one you love changed by alcohol to someone you don't know. To watch someone you loved self-destruct and not be able to help. Take care.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 12:36 AM, August 8th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mixed Up...
sorry to hear about your husband's medical issues.
During his 5 yr LTA my husband was at his worst in terms of drinking as well as at his worst in terms of lack of morals, lying..etc.
He was overweight, out of shape, had high blood pressure, elevated sugar (that was a concern), high cholesterol,bad acid reflux that required medication.
After d-day... he basically hit bottom and stopped drinking cold turkey... went to IC for almost 2 yrs, and started attending AA (90 meetings in 90 days to start and he continues attending AA today).
And guess what... most of his medical issues have disappeared...he lost weight, no longer has elevated sugar, no high blood pressure, no gastric reflux, and his cholesterol is lower ..still not perfect.

So..stopping the alcohol abuse was the key.

The main reason that I agreed to reconcile with him was due to the major changes he made in himself after d-day. He had been a functional alcoholic throughout our marriage and I had prayed for years for him to get sober.
Eventhough the betrayal of the infidelity was extremely traumatic for me...I decided to try to reconcile because he has vowed to me that he will continue going to AA for the rest of his life and that he will spend his life trying to make it up to me.
All of this is so hard...
Did you make any demands of your husband after d-day?
Was your husband remorseful about the affair and did he want to save the marriage?
That would be the perfect time to insist that sobriety is something that you need in order to reconcile.
I wish I had taken a tough love approach with my husband years ago....
I could have saved myself all of this grief.
A good book that describes alcoholic marriages is: Marriage On the Rocks by Woititz.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
heart_in_a_blend
♀ Member
Member # 24191
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, August 9th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NC2:

First. Alcoholics lie, thats what they do. It seems to be part of the illness. They lie when they do not have to lie.

This really rang a bell for me. Can you tell me more about why they lie even when they don't have to?


In life, much of what one grieves one never had.

Posts: 3036 | Registered: May 2009
MixedUpMess
♀ Member
Member # 15256
Default  Posted: 2:51 PM, August 9th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

betrayed1012 and njgal480,
Thanks for the replies. I have read Marriage on the Rocks. I went to my local library Saturday to get Codependent No More. There are 2 copies there and I could not believe that both copies had just been checked out that day! I'll have to wait to read that one unless I order it online. I almost went to an Alanon meeting last night but did not sleep well Saturday night and thus my energy level, and frame of mind, was not great yesterday. I wussed out.

I have not made any demands on him. My situation is very unusual and for the past 3+ years, I have been waiting things out. You can read my profile for more info but in a nutshell he has gotten himself into a legal situation with OW and therefore has maintained contact with her. Talk about having the utlimate excuse to continue an A! He maintained it was no longer a PA but I found out otherwise and now we are separated. I can't say he wants to save the marriage as we have not been able to get to a deciding point because of the situation. He has acknowledged that what he did was wrong but that is the extent of his remorse.

If we ever get to a point of reconciliation, sobriety will definitely be one demand. I've already thought about that! But I don't know if we will make it to that point. I was determined to hang on as long as necessary but the situation has taken a toll on me and my feelings for him. I don't know if there is much left to reconcile. I also don't know if he would sober up for me. Two years ago he quit drinking for about 2 months. Not because of urging from me or his daughter, but because his boss confronted him about it. The first person he called to cry upon the shoulder of was not me, but OW. Apparently his job, and OW, is more important than his wife and daughter. (OW is a heavy drinker, too.)

I did get an Alanon book from the library and am reading that. It's helping me have a better understanding of what Alanon is about and how it can help me. However, I'm really struggling with the fact that I can't save him! I keep thinking that there is something I can do. But then, I would, wouldn't I. I'm not the one consumed by the illness that is alcoholism...


D-Day: 5-28-2007
Married: 26 years
Me (BS): 48 (Cancer survivor!)
Him (WS)(Alcoholic): 48
DD: 17
False R for 1.5 yrs+
He moved out 5/10. In limbo.

I was sad because I had no shoes. Then I met a man who had no feet.


Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: MD
betrayed1012
♂ Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 10:03 PM, August 10th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((MixedUpMess)))

I'm really struggling with the fact that I can't save him! I keep thinking that there is something I can do. But then, I would, wouldn't I. I'm not the one consumed by the illness that is alcoholism...

You can't save him. You don't have that kind of control over him. Only the alcoholic can turn their life around. It is their problem, but it affects the whole family. The book "Codependant No More" that you were unable to find helped me understand. I'm a guy and an engineer, it was difficult to accept that I couldn't fix this problem. That's what we do. But, it wasn't mine to fix. I have no control over her problem.

At an Al-Anon meeting I heard someone say you'll be happiest when you figure out you can't figure out an alcoholic. When you stop trying to find that one thing to say to bring them back. Nothing you can say will make them change. It has to come from them hitting their bottom and deciding they are going to change, not for you, or their children, but to save themselves.

Give Al-Anon a try. It's not for everyone, but its message that you must heal from the damage their alcoholism has done to you is true.

Take care of yourself. Your actions are all you have control over, not what he will do.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
cautiousoptimist
♀ Member
Member # 24222
Default  Posted: 1:31 AM, August 12th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jeezus.

He discovered I was taking vicodin again and he went out. Threw away 435 days of sobriety "because he was so upset."

Granted, it was a one-off, but during the time he was drunk he was a totally different person altogether, sooooo nasty. Yelling at me, calling me a junkie, threatening to call the police on my suppliers, deleting my phone contacts. i know that's total codependence, but is it abusive? I feel like I don't know anything anymore, can't trust my own gut.

And I asked him if he drank, and he lied. He lied.Even though he knew that was the worst part of his addiction for me, the lying about being drunk, cause then I doubted MYSELF. And we all know that the whole infidelity thing causes us to doubt ourselves, and I hate this effect the worst of all, that I don't trust myself to KNOW what reality is.

I found the beer bottle in my damn car.

This was a few weeks ago, and we had a fun trip to Vegas cause I just put it out of my mind, but I was in shock, I think.

I told him it was the lying that kills me. That he's going to be upset with me, that I am going to piss him off, that this is what people do, and what are his plans for continued sobriety?

Pluses: he called his sponsor, his sponsor's sponsor, admitted it at his meetings, started over. . .

Cons: he just doesn't seem to get that I had JUST started to trust him again, and when a crisis came along, he just reverted to his usual coping skills: lie, lie, deny.

I told him he put us back, way back.

Then he wonders why I don't want to have sex with him.

Um-because I don't trust you? I don't feel safe with you?

I know I have my own addiction issues going on. I know I have my own giant pile of shit to sort out.

I just want him to go away, move out, get himself sorted, and then we'll see. He thinks this is a financially foolish move.

I don't want to care about him, whether or not he is sober, I know I can't control it.

He seems to think it's not that big a deal since he just went out for one incident, not a week long binge or anything. That he's back on the train.He just got off at one stop and got right back on.

But everything I've read about relapse says it starts a long time before anyone picks up. He denies this to be the case in his situation.

We need a really good MC. A really good one.


Me: BW, 43
Him: FWH, 50, alcoholic/drug addict in rehab, staying sober
D-day:4/30/09
Marriage 11 years
In R, doing our best
I will have it even so.

Posts: 652 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: san diego
cautiousoptimist
♀ Member
Member # 24222
Default  Posted: 4:32 PM, August 12th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

shameless bump?


Me: BW, 43
Him: FWH, 50, alcoholic/drug addict in rehab, staying sober
D-day:4/30/09
Marriage 11 years
In R, doing our best
I will have it even so.

Posts: 652 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: san diego
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 5:05 PM, August 12th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay....I was reading the last few posts, and here is what I have noticed with my on-again, off-again SO. And some questions.

Alcoholics lie, thats what they do. It seems to be part of the illness. They lie when they do not have to lie.

I want to know why, also. I have caught mine in stupid little white lies that I can see right thru, however, on the important things, with me, he has always told the truth (I check behind his back, I am best friends with his mom and have friends in the circles he runs in....also turns out when he is drunk out of his gourd he tends to open up and spill.... )

I am wondering is it just because they are so used to lying they don't really think anything about it, plus they live in fantasy for half their lives, so they create it partly when they are sober as well as drunk?

Second, drunks love a drunk
Yes. All his friends are drunks. I am the only one in his entire circle that is not a big drinker. So sometimes I get left out.

Will they lose themselves in booze completely
Mine is heading that way. He now takes a case home to drink alone from time to time, instead of socializing with it.

The alcoholic is going to do what the alcoholic does NO MATTER what you do
I know this, that is why I detached, although I ran back to him when I got into a scary relationship with someone else, and he was waiting with open arms. So I am working on detaching again....doing okay with it.

The physical symptoms I have noticed...I believe he has alcoholic neuropathy. He gets the tingling in his hands...some numbness, and sometimes he has a hard time grasping things. He has bathroom problems. He gets diarrhea. He has a hard time urinating sometimes. He is having a harder time being out in the heat this year than he did last year.

Last weekend, he passed out for a split second leaning up against his car. It scared him enough that he went home. This was after a night of hammering down 2 cases. (He does that every weekend)

His nutrition is horrendous. He has lost ten pounds since I first met him 1 1/2 years ago.

You can't control what he does. You need to detach with love. You can't save him, only he can save himself and only he can say when he will do that. Some people never recover.
I know this. That is why I am dating others. But it still hurts me to see him killing himself. I don't think there is a rock bottom for him. He seems to have accepted that he will not make it to age 50. Breaks my heart.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14918 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:12 PM, August 12th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Until they hit bottom they will not change...and the definition of 'bottom' is different for everyone.
For my husband it was when I found out about his long term affair with a married co-worker/drinking buddy and... when I kicked him out of the house!
He had to take a look at himself and finally face what he had become.
All alcoholics lie....
now, the question is...does the alcoholism create a lying personality? or did they have this type of personality before the alcoholism? and maybe the alcohol addiction is due to their personalities?
are they so caught up in their web of lies that they begin to believe their own lies?
My husband did...he actually believed that he was a good father and a good husband. that he was devoted to his wife. And he believed that he did not really have a problem with alcohol ...
Then d-day happened...and suddenly he had to face himself...look at himself in the mirror....and face all the people that now knew about the affair.
For better or worse I outted the affair to everyone!
Our children, friends, family, his co-workers, his boss..you name it! I was crazed...couldn't believe it..
But, you know..in retrospect...I think telling the truth to everyone for the first time...instead of covering for him like I did in the past with his drinking... was the catalyst for change.
He couldn't lie anymore.
Everyone knew his dirty little secrets...and everyone now knew that he wasn't the 'nice guy' that he pretended to be...
so, my advice to everyone who asks if they should keep the affair a secret? I say...NO! and the same is true for the drinking...
we have to let them take the fall out for their actions or else they will never change.
Cautious... I'm sorry that your husband does not 'get it'.
He is looking for excuses to drink and it does not sound like he is truly remorseful about his affair.
That is the bottom line for what you need for a chance at reconciling after an affair... a truly remorseful WS that is willing to do anything and everything to save the marriage....and that includes getting sober!
Anything less is not acceptable! And..anything less will mean that the reconciliation is doomed!
If the WS is still in contact with the OM/OW and is still drinking/using etc. then there is no reconciliation and your best bet is to distance yourself from the situation... moving out or telling your spouse to move out and then make your demands and tell your spouse that reconciling is not possible until your demands are met.
And then...you have to stand strong... use a tough love approach...do the 180.
Work on yourself...go to IC, ALANON,get a prescription for meds if you need them...dealing with infidelity is traumatic and painful it's hard to get through it without help...add to that dealing with an alcoholic or drug addicted spouse..well you have added stress and anxiety...
I saw the aftermath as an opprotunity to re -invent our marriage....to have a fresh start. And now, it is on my terms..not on the alcoholic's terms that dominated our marriage and family life for 30 yrs.
So far, its working...we have a new marriage. My husband continues to stay sober, attend AA, is NC with the OW, is transparent and honest about everything... he is not lying anymore about anything! He has realized how he had taken me and the family for granted for so many years... he realizes how selfish and toxic his actions were...
his attitude is completely changed...
but, like I said..he had to hit bottom to get there..


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
cautiousoptimist
♀ Member
Member # 24222
Default  Posted: 12:41 AM, August 13th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks everyone, especially betrayed, naive and njga-

Tonight I swore to Goddess I smelled alcohol on him. His eyes were red, he was loud, and a little too cheery. I tok him aside and begged him, begged him just to tell me the truth.

He swore he didn't, was very undefensive, said he knew he was untrustworthy, offered to get a breathalyzer off Amazon. . .

I went to Rite Aid and got 2 breathalyzer tess. He passed them both as negative. I didn't apologize and he looked into my eyes and said he was done lying, he would tell me if he had drank; I was crying so hard and saying I didn't even care about the drinking, just the LYING.

He seemed so contrite and sincere, saying over and over that he could only earn my trust day by day and that he was committed to doing this.

Then I went to see my sister(also my next door neighbor and pretty much housemate tho she and my nephew have their own cottage) to tell her what was going on and she said SHE had smelled it on him too!

I feel so fucking crazy right now. I searched his van, I looked through everything in his car, I asked him lots of questions to try to trip him up.

I really hate this. He says he would tell me, but since he never has admitted to shit before, WHY would I believe him?

Which begs the question-what kind of a psycho am I to try and stay married to someone whom I cannot trust????


Me: BW, 43
Him: FWH, 50, alcoholic/drug addict in rehab, staying sober
D-day:4/30/09
Marriage 11 years
In R, doing our best
I will have it even so.

Posts: 652 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: san diego
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