Well, I'm sad that you lied to me, too.
I wish I had done a better job of 180 and detaching. I kept thinking I could reach her and make her see the insanity. I argued with her when she'd call drunk. It just reinforced in her distorted mind that her actions were justified as I am an angry person. When I asked how should I feel when my wife is sleeping with another man she says she doesn't know how I should feel as it hasn't happened to her. Just as you said there is no winning an arguement with a drunk.
Take care of yourself. That's all you have control over.
I sometimes wonder if I will ever get over being married to an alcoholic. Still can't believe I never got an amends. He's been dry and/or sober since Fall '09 and I doubt I will ever get an apology...sigh..just a small vent...Hang in there, all.
[This message edited by Why?? at 11:36 AM, January 2nd (Sunday)]
I understand what you are talking about. It is hard to deal with the selfish, self-centered behavior of an alcoholic. I this you have not gotten amends because he still doesn't own his problem and is not truly working the program. He is dry, but not sober and in active recovery. He most likely still pushing blame for his problems out on anything else, but himself. I've heard recently how my xWW say I'm horrible and controlling. Her story doesn't match up with facts, but she has to shift the blame away from herself as all alocoholics do. My xWW hasn't drank since May '10, but is far from sober. She refuses to accept responsibility for her alcoholism or the A. I don't think I'll ever get amends from her either. For her to make amends it would invalidate everything she has done. To make amends and be in active recovery an alcoholic must accept responsibility.
I am sorry for your pain. We must accept that amends from our alcoholics are something we may never hear. We need to move on with our healing and learn to live without expecting things from them they are incapable of giving.
Take care of yourself and live for you without any expectations of what they may or may not do. It sucks I know to have someone you counted on for so long to now be unable to hope for a simple apology.
[This message edited by betrayed1012 at 6:25 PM, January 5th (Wednesday)]
I'm sorry you are here. It is a place none of us wanted to be. To have our lives turned upside down by alcoholism and adultery.
My xWW and I were told in the beginning by her counselor that she needed to get her alcoholism under control before we could work on the damage it had caused between us or any other marital issues we may have had. This is uniform advice to alcoholics or addicts I believe. Until they get into active recovery they are pushing blame out to others. They find it difficult to be truthful as I'm sure you seen when you ask your alcoholic if they've been drinking and they'll deny it even if they can't stay up.
Without being able to trust what someone says how can you expect to work on your marriage? I wish you the best that your alcoholic will make the changes in his life needed and that he'll accept responsibility for his actions. My xWW couldn't but others here have.
Try Al-Anon to see if it will help you understand how to heal from how alcoholism had hurt you. Understand you can't control what he'll do and you can only control what you will do. Take care of yourself.
D-day was hitting bottom for my husband. When we separated it made him fianlly take a good look at himself and how he had sunk so low.
He went NC with the OW immediately and he stopped drinking, went to AA (90 meetings in 90 days to start), and went to IC (2x per week for 6 months and the 1x per week for another year).
All of this for a man that never wanted to look very deeply at himself, his actions, his life.
AA and IC changed his life. He is a different person in so many ways.
He is the husband I always wished for. He is a much nicer, kinder, gentler person overall.
Change is possible.
I went to IC also and ALANON.
IC was extremely helpful for me. I had already implemented a lot of what ALANON teaches you...the detachment with love concept. Unfortunately, we had detached so much in our marriage that he embarked on a 5 yr LTA!
But, after d-day, after he hit bottom. I began to see real and lasting changes in him.
It is 4 yrs post d-day and 4 yrs of sobriety for him.
He continues to go to AA.
We are reconciled and I feel like in many ways our marriage is better than it ever was.
We communicate on a whole different level.
Just wanted to give you some hope. Things can get better.
My counselor told me (and I have read) that it's very difficult to work on two addictions at once. Alcohol will be the easier one to work on. Also, getting that under control should make MC work better. There's so much lying, denial and blameshifting with the drinking and acting out. If you have those things going on in your spouse, how can you work on relationship stuff, you know?
It's difficult for me, but I try to realize that I can't force things to happen. I can't force WS to tell me about his "EA", so I am not trying to heal from that yet. I have a lot of anger over her and it's going to have to come out someday. Right now the alcohol and the sex addiction issues are more "in my face". Ugh.
This stuff is going to take a long time to fix. It's difficult to accept. I'm a year out and have only gotten to acceptance of this fact fairly recently.
Just try to take care of yourself and keep reading and posting. I'm sorry.
They may say "I'm sorry" but how many "I'm sorry" does it take before you realize that bull shit is just that? I'm sorry but, it will happen again.
I've been to alan-non, counselors and read all kinds of books to try and help myself understand.
When they are not drinking the people in our lives can be very charming and I'm sure that is whay keeps us hanging on. Maybe that is what co-dependent is.
I've been married to an alcoholic for 38 years. I'm damaged goods myself.
He is a good financial provider and that is the only good thing I can say about him.
38 years enduring the rollercoaster ride is a long time. My heart goes out to you.
Why is it that alcoholics refuse to take responsibility for any of their actions? They never seem to feel remorse and blame everything that is wrong on someone or something else
That is the nature of the disease. It requires the alcoholic to push out the blame on others or things outside them. Otherwise, they have to deal with it is them that is the problem. It is too much for many to admit. It is far too easy to continue down that path than to really accept what they ahve or are doing. Even through they may not be drinking many continue to be an alcoholic at heart, having never worked the program to find the defects that lie within and address them.
It is a horrible disease that affects the entire family, not just the alcoholic; spouses, children, parents siblings and friends. If they don't address what is their problem, they are most likely doomed to relapse. It many be years down the road... still if they haven't developed a way of coping with the addiction in a healthy manner the chances are great.
Alcoholism and infidelity are both addictive behaviors. They go hand in hand in many cases. Or, can be swapped. My xWW had both and now is dry seemingly trading one for the other. She met the "man of dreams" in detox. She failed to heed the warnings of AA not to get in a relationship in the first year. She ignore her counselor who told her to resolve the alcoholism, then if there were problems in the marriage deal with those.
Strong is the addiction, so strong that I've read as little as 10% even truly recover. And, it must be for the people we loved to have given up everything; marriages, relationships, careers, and their health.
Painful is it for those of us to loved these people. To watch their spiral down. Unable to help and often blamed by them for their problems. So often we end up sucked down into their despair with them. Drawn into the drama that their disease creates. Left worrying what we may have done wrong when they sometimes seem to get better, but still blame us. But, it is not us. We didn't cause their problems, their addiction, their infidelity. They will readily heap this blame on us if we will accept it. It is so hard often to not accept their guilt they shift to us. I struggle with this all the time, even though we are divorced, how I could not help her. It's not mine to solve, though nor is it any of ours who have loved or are in love with the alcoholic to solve. It is theirs and theirs alone to fix. We could only offer support and encouragement as long as we did not cross over into enabling them.
That refusal to enable many push some into the arms of those who "understand" and "accept" them. To another alcoholic or addictive personality. And, we have no more control over that than we did the disease. For me that has been the hardest thing to accept and I still struggle with. How a person I'd known for so long could throw it all away for someone she had known less than 30 days.
Those of us who love alcoholics need to be easier on ourselves. We didn't have control over what our alcoholic did. We can only control what we will do, with or without them. We need to take care of ourselves and fix the damage the disease has done to us.
My XH blamed me for everything, his drinking, his infidelity, his unhappiness, even causing his job loss! After he left me and the kids, he claimed even his health was better and he no longer needed blood pressure medicine. Hard to believe that an obese, unemployed, alcoholic, 46 year old man with hypertension would be cured by leaving his wife?
I loved the man he was; hate the man he became! I hate this disease.
He claims a year later he has worked through all his issues and is cured. The thing is...he has yet to even make amends to his kids! But wait, I forgot that's my fault too! I poisoned them against him, and I really need to be the bridge between him and them (no thanks. No more will I be an enabler, I did that for 23 years!.)
I am sorry. I had options since we both worked, until she lost her job during the A because of her drinking, financially.
Try Al-Anon to start your healing. You didn't cause his drinking or his problems. They can help you understand this and to detach from his problems.
I feel it is hard to work on a marriage until the alcoholism is under control. That is what my wife's counselor told us. The trouble is as long as they are an active alcoholic it is unlikely they will accept responsibility for what they've done. Even after they quit it takes a long time for the brain to return to "normal" after the last drink, more than a year and up to 3 years depending on the research.
I wish I had better sugeestions for you. You need to take care of yourself and detach from his problems at least emotionally if you can't physically or financially. You need to control what you can, what you'll do since you have no control over what he'll do. He may continue to spiral down until he hits his bottom or he may never find the bottom. Either way it is his choice, not yours. You can't make him or do it for him. Detach is something you must do to save yourself from the ravages of alcoholism. Seek IC if possible to help you understand what you own and what is his to own. Take care of yourself.
During these months, I have been reflecting on everything in my marriage and realized that this (drinking, womanizing, etc) has been going on for quite some time. He was in the military, so he controlled it as much as he could when he was home and went crazy when he was away. Now that he is retired, it has ramped up and I have heard that this happens a lot. But anyway, I know that I cannot focus on that and must take that energy to focus on me. I am codependent and that is another thing that I need to work on as well.
Again, thank you for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it.
Take small steps. Even if you cry at Al-Anon and don't say anything, you will benefit from the caring presence of those who do speak. There is a lot of years of wisdom. I go to a couple that are mostly women. If you need to, try several groups until you find the one that you feel welcomes you the way you want. I have found everyone to be caring and non-judgemental. In addition, you can join on-line forums for times that you need a meeting right away.
I find myself in a similar situation. Five years ago, he asked me to move in with him, and said he wanted to marry me. Like all alcoholics, he is mostly broken promises. I am slowly realizing that I an worth more than to be kept on a string waiting for him to do what he said he would do. I have been paying about half of the household expenses, including half of the house payment. I have nothing to show for it, but more promises. I've about had enough. For most of this time I have had my own job and my own money. He has a very good job which most people would have no trouble living on, and yet all of a sudden he says he has medical bills after him. It could be, but since he doesn't tell the truth very well, I don't know. I do know that I have not given him any money for the house for five months. I have a part time job, and it is just enough to pay my own bills.
So I am saving what I can, and looking for a better job. I don't want to give him any money because he's spending so much on alcohol and drugs off the street. I feel like I'd be financing his unhealthy choices. I don't know if he will see it that way, and he may just kick me out, I don't know.
The other thing is, I do think he is calling the OW from work on the land line. After doing a lot of research, i believe she is married now, or has a significant other. If I can do a little more searching, I may come up with a reason to contact him. She will bitch to WBF, who will probably blame me for all his current problems. So I need to be ready to take care of myself. Not easy to backtrack when I've spent the last five years totally devoted to him and everything I made went to US. There may not be an US. We'll see.
All the best to you, and let's take care of ourselves.
[This message edited by phoenix_vs at 7:51 PM, January 21st (Friday)]
My WH is a high functioning alcoholic. He maintains a good career, and is well liked by his co-workers. He was drinking about an 18 pack a night, though he claims that since he moved out he drinks less. I saw 2 30 packs in his fridge last week, so who knows.
He admitted his A and said the cause was his drinking; that if he were sober, it wouldn't have happened. Of course, that has since changed to ME being the cause of the drinking, the A, the financial trouble, and the impending D.
We started MC and we spent the entire first session discussing his alcoholism and how nothing with the marriage R can move forward until he is sober. I agree.
Since his A, and him moving out, he has begun actively using dating sites, setting profiles that say he is divorced and has no kids (we have 3!!). I confronted him about it, and was told that it was my fault, and that he does it because he knows I spy on him, and he wants to piss me off.
We are supposed to be in R, but how can we R if he is still drinking and now dating!?!?
For 18 years I have given him all of my love and support. I have stood by him when he had pissed off people, embarrassed himself, got in financial trouble, arrested, DUI's....you name it, I've stood by him. I finally asked him to leave when my S came to me and said that it was time for dad to go; he couldn't handle walking on eggshells anymore. I felt horrible as a mother, for having let it go on for so long. The fights, the anger, the leaving drunk and not coming home until the next day.
I was committed to R. I was committed to moving past his A. Now he's heading farther awway from me and his children, and doesn't seem to give a flying fuck at a rolling donut that it is happening. He hasn't seen or talked to his kids in almost a week. I guess that will be my fault too.
Some days he tells me he loves me and wants to come home, and the next, I am ignored, or treated like he wishes I weren't on the planet. It is that part of dealing with him that I am all too familiar with, unfortuately. What is killing me now, is that he has taken it all one step farther; he is actively moving along, all the while attending MC and telling me he loves me and wants to come home.
WTH do I do with that?
Sorry for the long vent, but thanks for the thread!!