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User Topic: Spouses/Partners Of Sex Addicts
FeistyWoman
♀ Member
Member # 19093
Default  Posted: 12:31 AM, May 5th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Eternaloptimist--

The circus sounds good. More normal than our lives right now!!!

Sorry you're feeling so down.

My mom passed away about 9 years ago ---and I remember how hard that 1st year was. I didn't have this to deal with at the time (well, I did, but I had no idea so I was blissfully ignorant).

It must be so hard to deal with so many different emotions at once--especially when none of them seem good!

Those damn ungrateful kids!!! I've got 2 myself (8 & 6). I long for the days of complete self-absorption. They seem to have it mastered. Don't they understand how wonderful we are--what great moms we are--especially considering all the crap we are trying to deal with? No --I just get the "fun Daddy" stories lately. Not so much in the mood for them.

So--the straight men and gay sex thing. Not sure what to offer for help there. My WH have talked more about it in the last couple of days. I may be in denial--but I really do believe him that he was just trying the next thing.

His most recent addictive behavior was emailing men thru Craigslist (or Satanslist, as I now like to call it). That led to an encounter with a man for a full massage. He really seems like he was just exploring the possibilities of really easy anonymous sex.

I realize that I may not know it all yet but I feel 90% sure that I do. So--from his point of view (for what it is worth), the male sex thing was just something to explore. I know every situation is different-and I may still not really know the whole story---but that's were I stand right now.

I guess mostly all we can do is wait to see what therapy will do to help them figure out who they really are. I know that isn't easy.

Ok--so I started out thinking I was going to be able to offer you some words of encouragement, but maybe not.

Tomorrow is another day, right? Or today is since it is after midnight and time for bed.

Hope this week gets better. If not - I have always wanted to try the trapeze--so maybe we can start our own circus!



Me - BS
Him - WH (SA)
Dday #1 3-20-08 Dday #2 4-9-08
2 children
Married 11 years, together 20
Him-3 massage parlor visits starting 1996; 1 yr arrangement w/prostitute;6 ONS(women); 1 full massage with man
Me-Totally clueless until 3-20-08

Posts: 111 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Midwest
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, May 5th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Feisty,

Thanks for the support! Yep, it's a tough time...and tougher still because I thought I was past all the really hard stuff. Now I realize that I've been quite numb. Kinda like that feeling, I've decided.
I'm sure it has something to do with Mother's Day this weekend -- first one without my mom (and she was the one who made a fuss over ME on Mother's Day!). And she was also the one I would talk to when I was struggling with the kids -- she had this incredible way of supporting my feelings while still respecting their right to be who they are. And she often reminded me that they weren't unlike their mother in their determination and relentlessness.
In the meantime, I did read some more of the Spouse SA book and it is actually quite good. I found the "stages" info quite illuminating. Though I'd kinda lika to fast-track through the grief stage, if possible.


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
howcouldhe1
♀ Member
Member # 13210
Default  Posted: 10:22 AM, May 5th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My H has also gone down the same sex route. From what he's told me, he went to a swingers party and allowed another man to touch him but didn't like it. And he also arranged to go and meet a guy IRL who offered him a BJ in a chat room. Funnily enough, it's not the thought of him going to meet a man that bothers me as much as the thought of him going to meet ANYONE when we were supposed to be in R. But I have wondered if maybe there is some confusion over his sexuality though he seems pretty convinced he's straight. So maybe it is just an increase in the acting out he was doing. Who knows? I know I don't know anything any more. But if you want a 3rd to join the circus troupe I quite fancy the trapeze as well!


Me BS 54 FWH (BT) 52 M 22 years D Day 4/11/06 Over a year of trickle truths. March 08. D Day 2. Online porn and SA. Just when I thought we'd be ok, July 19 08. BT had accident. Severe brain damage, in persistent vegetative state. I lost him anyway.

Posts: 5488 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Kent UK
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, May 5th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can just imagine how we'll market our circus -- forget Cirque du Soleil, how about Cirque du SA?? I suspect we'd actually attract quite a following!


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
1Forward1Back
♀ Member
Member # 11057
Default  Posted: 12:38 PM, May 5th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Eternaloptomist...Hey girl, I know how you feel. I have been in such a grief state these past few days. Last night, I went to bed early, put on my iPod and just sobbed. My H tried to comfort me but I gently asked him to leave me alone. All the things I thought were gone came back like they were yesterday: the time he paid for tickets to a skating event for me so he could go to her place and boink her, him not coming to my dad's funeral but going to her while I was gone...all of it. I guess one just has to let the waves of grief roll over you rather than fighting them. As well, it's a week away from the 2 year anniversary of my dad's death and only a little over a month until the 2 year anniversary of D-Day. Probably has a lot to do with it. That and my fear that he will not do what it takes to get and stay clean and I will have to leave. Just too much at times!! Sigh!!

I really think the men thing is just another step to get the 'hit'. My husband is a total homophobe, yet I found a couple of porn CDs with men on men. Scared the daylights out of me. I also noticed the latest ones were of girls of age, but dressed like prepubescents. That scared me even more. I know these are just moves deeper into the hell of this addiction, but it rattles me sometimes.

I'm thankful for work. It keeps my mind busy. We are off on a trip next week to attend a wedding. I'm determined to leave my grief in a compartment way in the back of my mind. The trip is a time where we really need to connect and just relax.


Me: 60 Yrs. (BS)
Him: 60 Yrs.(FWH- life long sex addict)
-2 ONSs followed by an A-2005/06
-cheated while we were engaged
-seems to stray every 30 years or so
D-Day-June 10, 2006
Working on own recovery. His is his!
Married: 37 yrs. Grown ch

Posts: 966 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Canada
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, May 5th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

1Forward,
Thank-you!! Your words mean more than you can know. I'm just so profoundly sad these days. And I thought I was doing so great. I've had an insanely busy time the past year with work -- lots of ego stroking, attention, etc. And now my 15 minutes is over, I think. I'm aware of how it's entirely ego and I'm also aware of what a rush I got with all the attention. I can see how addictive attention is...especially when you're feeling so unworthy beneath it all.
So...while I have a certain intellectual perspective, it just aches sometimes and I feel like a little kid who just wants someone to notice that they're in pain. So thank-you.
And thank-you to everyone on this thread and this site! It's a constant source of amazement to me how total strangers prop each other up just because they witness another's pain.


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, May 5th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow! I wrote my blurb above, then opened up an e-mail in my regular account that contained this:

May 5, 2008
The Heart Of Humanity
Sitting With Our Sadness
The last thing most of us want to hear or think about when we are dealing with profound feelings of sadness is that deep learning can be found in this place. In the midst of our pain, we often feel picked on by life, or overwhelmed by the enormity of some loss, or simply too exhausted to try and examine the situation. We may feel far too disappointed and angry to look for anything resembling a bright side to our suffering. Still, somewhere in our hearts, we know that we will eventually emerge from the depths into the light of greater awareness. Remembering this truth, no matter how elusive it seems, can help.

The other thing we often would rather not hear when we are dealing with intense sadness is that the only way out of it is through it. Sitting with our sadness takes the courage to believe that we can bear the pain and the faith that we will come out the other side. With courage, we can allow ourselves to cycle through the grieving process with full inner permission to experience it. This is a powerful teaching that sadness has to offer us—the ability to surrender and the acceptance of change go hand in hand.

Another teaching of sadness is compassion for others who are in pain, because it is only in feeling our own pain that we can really understand and allow for someone else’s. Sadness is something we all go through, and we all learn from it and are deepened by its presence in our lives. While our own individual experiences of sadness carry with them unique lessons, the implications of what we learn are universal. The wisdom we gain from going through the process of feeling loss, heartbreak, or deep disappointment gives us access to the heart of humanity.


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
McKlain
♀ New Member
Member # 19320
Content  Posted: 11:51 PM, May 5th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Eternaloptimist ~
Wow. That is so perfect. So wise.

Reading it, it came over me that I wanted to send it to my H, because of the pain he is going through. Then it occurred to me that the process the passage talks about is EXACTLY the thing he has shut out all of his life - experiencing the pain of grief in order to overcome it. He has always just found a fix to make the pain go away instead.

BTW - not only am I pregnant, but I am a chubby bunny anyhow (i.e. over weight) so I refuse to be the girl in the leotard and tights up on the tightrope - I'd rather be the clown or the ring master thanks :)
Or perhaps the lion tamer - but that is a bit too much like being married, no?


Me ~ 32 ~ BS ~
Him ~ 31 ~ WS ~ SA
Married ~ 3 years, together 5 years.
Children ~ 1 boy, 6 months
Discovered the infidelity ~ 15th March 2008. 24 weeks and 4 days pregnant.
Reconciling; one day at a time

Posts: 35 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Australia
McKlain
♀ New Member
Member # 19320
Default  Posted: 12:13 AM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay, so the thing in Austria where the man held his daughter captive in a dungeon for 24years so he could beat and rape her as he pleased ahs gotten me thinking.
First of all

Second of all - it is well known that sex slavery is a MASSIVE industry now. I have always struggled with the FACT that people knowingly sell their daughters/ sons/ brothers/ sisters or even strangers! into a life of sex slavery. Particularly well known is the inductry in Thailand and the Phillipines where the law is very, very relaxed on these matters. The child sex trade is massive too.

[I know I take a long time to get to my point ... but I like to paint the picture of my thought process.]

So the child sex industry is huge, and we know that paedophilia occurs - I believe last time i heard it was 1 in 4 children are abused.

So what do we think about the connection between Sex Addiction and paedophilia? If they are willing to get their fix with other guys - but say they aren't gay or even bi, and they manage to compartmentalize their hidden selves so well that we are completely and utterly oblivious to what they are doing .... what are the chances of the SA leading one day to paedophilia? What if the most readily available opportunity is the innocent, defenseless child down the hall way??????
I never before understood this notion of compartmentalizing ... I never thought a man as wonderful, caring, loving, loved and supportive as my husband would engage in the things he has .... so if a good man can do that .... can a good man end up being a paedophile and interferring with their own child?

I brought this notion up with H last night. It made him down and he disappeared into the garage to paint our wardrobe doors for the next 2 hours. I thought I was subtle, but he realised the underlying thinking is about me being pregnant with our first baby.
What if .... what if... what if ....
I don't think he is capable of it ..... but, like you lovely ladies, I didnt think he was capable of the ongoing years of lurid infidelity and deception.
Can we talk about this? Wish we could meet somewhere for coffee and a chat.


Me ~ 32 ~ BS ~
Him ~ 31 ~ WS ~ SA
Married ~ 3 years, together 5 years.
Children ~ 1 boy, 6 months
Discovered the infidelity ~ 15th March 2008. 24 weeks and 4 days pregnant.
Reconciling; one day at a time

Posts: 35 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Australia
howcouldhe1
♀ Member
Member # 13210
Default  Posted: 3:59 AM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

McKlain that is such an incredibly scary thought isn't it? That our husbands, if left untreated, might go down that route. Hard to believe.......but scary.


Me BS 54 FWH (BT) 52 M 22 years D Day 4/11/06 Over a year of trickle truths. March 08. D Day 2. Online porn and SA. Just when I thought we'd be ok, July 19 08. BT had accident. Severe brain damage, in persistent vegetative state. I lost him anyway.

Posts: 5488 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Kent UK
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I distinctly remember when I asked my husband -- "Children?" -- after he'd confessed to everything else. He was on the floor in the fetal position sobbing and he looked up at me with total disgust and said, "God! NO! Never!" The knot in my gut loosened slightly. I confess I've read about it and it seems that paedophilia is the far end of the spectrum. Not that they couldn't go there if desperate enough...but unlikely because of how many taboos they would have to cross unless they're already predisposed to being attracted to children.
My good friend works with survivors of childhood sex abuse and has written a book for children on being abused. She's one of the few who know about my husband because many survivors of abuse become SA so she understands much of my husband's behaviours. She sees lots of acting out among these survivors (prostitutes, men, women) but she doesn't think that SA automatically leads to the path of abusing children.
So...while it's possible, it would take more than simply opportunity to make someone go there.
We have three young kids and I'm all too aware of the risks they face in this world. But their father isn't one of those risks.
I'm probably not doing the topic justice -- I know Carnes discusses this is in book, Don't Call It Love.
And no worries, McKlain. You just have your beautiful baby and get your beautiful body back, no matter its size -- the Cirque du SA will hold a spot for you!


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
FeistyWoman
♀ Member
Member # 19093
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have also thought about the risk to my children. I do not worry at all that anything as happened so far. They are happy (if self-absorbed) kids and they have a good relationship with their father.

But, it is certainly still on the agenda to address. Ideally, I would like my WH to get set up with his IC (he had an appt this morning) and then go to one of his appointments with a list of things I want answers to. Then the IC will know that it is something he needs to think about for future.

I think you HAVE to consider the possibility when you have children--but I do NOT believe that every SA becomes a child molester.


Me - BS
Him - WH (SA)
Dday #1 3-20-08 Dday #2 4-9-08
2 children
Married 11 years, together 20
Him-3 massage parlor visits starting 1996; 1 yr arrangement w/prostitute;6 ONS(women); 1 full massage with man
Me-Totally clueless until 3-20-08

Posts: 111 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Midwest
1Forward1Back
♀ Member
Member # 11057
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted this in this forum a few months back. It's an excellent article from the COSA website on the 3 basic types of sex addicts. This might help in your discussion about pedophilia and the risk.

From our experience in this field, we have determined there are three basic "kinds" of sex addicts (SAs), and it is reasonably easy for the partner to identify which type the SA in their life is.

This list of "kinds" is different than Dr. Patrick Carnes' designations of addictive behavior LEVELS. This list groups SAs by their actions, behaviors, and approximate chances of staying sober and is based on our experiences.

Why?

Ahhh. Some would say the answer is "42." (You have to be a Douglas Adams fan to get that one.)

There are three "basic" groups of SAs, from least to most severe.

1) "Lost." These are the lower-level SAs who mostly haven't progressed much. Mostly porn, some masturbation and phone sex. Some may have had physical affairs. They are truly the ones with the best chance of recovery. They are "nice" guys (gals) who are truly using SA as a medication. They may have other addictions, but the sexual addiction is their core addiction and they are in pain, most likely have been in pain for years, sometimes as a result of their own sexual/mental/physical abuse in childhood. If not outright abuse, they most likely gew up in a family situation where they felt trapped and unable to express their opinion. Or they were told that expressing emotion was "wrong" and taught by example to stuff their feelings. The SA is truly a way to medicate themself, to FEEL alive. BUT as a result, they are totally trapped in a shame-based cycle. They DO have a chance to get better. This isn't to say they are guaranteed to stay in sober recovery, but of the groups who have a chance to do so, this is the demographic where you will see the most recovery occur. We see very few partners of SAs in this demographic here, at least not for long-term, because these kinds of SAs will usually seek treatment, if not willingly, at least with an admisison on their part that they know their life is out of control and they need some sort of help. Or they hit bottom the easiest, because their family/job/whatever IS more important to them than their SA disease. Therefore there is more support readily available for the partner through "conventional" means. Also, because their SA is less severe, or seems to make progress quickly, when partners of this type of SA do make it here, they frequently don't stay long because reading others' problems is often "too painful" for them, or keeps them in a "negative mindset" because their SA isn't "that bad." Nothing wrong with that, just a fact. This is also the least-common SA.

If intervention doesn't happen in time, they can/will progress to the next step.

2) "The Herd." Most SAs fall into this category. Their chances of recovery depend on how long they've been an SA and whether or not there are other mental issues that will effect their outcome. SAs in this category range from "just starting" with porn/masturbation all the way up to severe sexual offenders/predators. (And just because someone's an SA doesn't make them a sex offender and vice versa.) Many of these SAs don't use SA as a self-medication, although many do. Some are modelling behavior they saw when they were growing up. Some have made SA a "lifestyle choice" (so they think) and are happy with what and who they are, regardless of the pain it brings their partners. Some admit they have a problem, some don't. Some will hit bottom, some won't. It depends on if they can find another partner/situation to catch them. Serial cheaters who are not in the third category fall into this category. It's not uncommon for SAs in this category to also have other addictions, like drugs and alcohol. These SAs might be badgered into recovery by their partner, or they might be scared into recovery by a brush with the law or the possibility of public exposure or losing their job. But the "love of a good person" usually isn't enough to get there. When they do hit bottom, they hit HARD. But sometimes they simply bounce -- either to another job, another partner, or probation (which lets them lie to themself that they really didn't do anything "wrong").

A relationship with an SA like this is truly a roller coaster ride. Because you can see the flashes of the person YOU think is inside them when the addiction isn't in control of them. They may jump on and fall off the wagon many times before either staying sober or giving up and just accepting the SA as part of their life. They may be caught in a shame-based cycle, but the longer they stay there, the more they start to think it's a "normal" way of life and the shame actually starts to dissipate, or at least be tolerable to them.

Recovery chances are not hard and fast, but they're not favorable.

3) NPD, BPD, sociopaths, psychopaths, other disorders -- "Out there.": (Narcissistic/Borderline Personality Disorder) This demographic has basically NO chance of recovery. We tend to see quite a few partners here with this kind of sex addict in their life. Because the addict usually thinks there's nothing wrong with them, it's the partner's/world's fault they have problems. Not THEIR fault! Why is that? Because instead of the SA being the problem, it's only a SYMPTOM of the problem. The main problem is the underlying psychiatric disorder that allows them to use SA in their life. I can off the top of my head think of several active members at this time who have these types of SAs in their life, and even more who have left SAs of this type. Why do they have nearly no chance of recovery? Research narcissistic personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, and other mental conditions. You'll see that most of those people have little chance of successful treatment. Unless their underlying mental condition can be "cured," the SA will NEVER be cured. And since most of these SAs think there is nothing wrong with them, they see no reason to get help. In other words, run. They won't hit bottom, because they can always find someone to catch them and/or will always shuffle blame off onto someone else.
Last Updated ( Wednesday, 13 December 2006 )

[This message edited by 1Forward1Back at 12:35 PM, May 6th (Tuesday)]


Me: 60 Yrs. (BS)
Him: 60 Yrs.(FWH- life long sex addict)
-2 ONSs followed by an A-2005/06
-cheated while we were engaged
-seems to stray every 30 years or so
D-Day-June 10, 2006
Working on own recovery. His is his!
Married: 37 yrs. Grown ch

Posts: 966 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Canada
Frog
♀ Member
Member # 19331
Default  Posted: 2:23 PM, May 6th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not sure if I should be here. I had someone PM me and suggest that maybe I should. So, I guess I'm looking for info. Let me share my story first I guess.

I'm BS, 33
WH, 34
DS 8
DD 7
Married 9 1/2 years, together 10 1/2 years

DDay 12/11/07. Found WH's secret email account, along with over 1400 emails he had sent to various strangers and a former fiance. He told the ex that he had an affair on me before but with only one person.

I confronted him via the phone, I was going to wait till he got home but was so furious when he called that I couldn't hold my water. I told him I needed to talk to him about something I found on his computer, he asked what, then I asked how many affairs he's had on me. He first said 1, later that night he revealed it was actually 3. They were all ONS's, the first was 5 years ago with a customer, he was at her house doing some work, she started talking dirty to him and put her hand on his leg and began rubbing him, and it was all over in about 3 minutes.

About a year and a half after that, he started emailing people on Craigslist from the personal section. He would ask for and send dirty pics, he would talk about hooking up with all of them that would reply, and eventually he followed through and went to a woman's house. This was 2 years after the 1st PA. This was also a ONS. About a month later, he did it again with another stranger from Craigslist, and it was also just a ONS. He has had no PA's since then, but continued the emailing.

In Nov of 06, he found his ex fiance (he tracked her down actually). He started emailing her, and within days their emails became sexual. We moved in June of 07 to a city within 10 minutes of her house, and they started meeting for lunch and talking on the phone. They talked on the phone weekly at least, and met for lunch 2 times. Fortunately she had her DD with her both times so nothing happened (and I use the emails they sent afterward to verify that nothing happened), although she definitely wanted something too... oh, and she's married too.

So, Dec I find his secret email acct, get all this info. Kick him out for the night, he becomes injured the next day and can't leave my house. So we were sort of forced back together. He has been here since, and we have had a more fulfilling relationship in every way since that happened. My WH is no longer "somewhere else". He used to sit on the couch right next to me and email these people, while I was right there with him. He would bark at the kids when they begged for his attention from the PC. He would put off life to look at those emails. Now, he does not do that at all.

I have installed monitoring software on the PC's so I can verify he is being good, and it works GREAT, I highly recommend it! And we talk now, that is a big thing. We have been in MC for almost 2 months, and I am so happy now. I still have my moments, but I have only had 2 bad DAYS in the past 2 months, and my moments are short lived as I focus on what we have now, rather than what I thought we had before or what I feel we lost.

Even in all that time though, he has never had a porn problem (there isn't any in the house, his car, he doesn't have extra money EVER to buy any, and I checked the PC's and DVD's), he doesn't masturbate (since we've been married I can count on one hand how many times he has, he is very open with me about that and we talk about it). He has NO other addictions, has never done drugs in his life, doesn't drink, has never smoked, he is a great guy really.

I feel like he gave into temptation once, started feeling incredibly guilty and worthless because of it, and turned his feelings of worthlessness into a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts by deciding to go out and solicit two more ONS's. He stopped having ONS's on his own 3 years ago, and he admitted to 2 of them without me even knowing about them, and he is willingly going to counseling and letting me check up on him and everything. I'm just so confused, but am I missing something? Is he an SA? If so, why, if not, why not? Thanks for your input!


Me, BS 33
Him, FWS 35 (MrFrog)
Married 10 years
DDay 12-11-07

Posts: 834 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NW US
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 9:31 AM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Frog,

It's impossible to "diagnose" someone online -- particularly because none of us are really experts. There are so many other aspects that play a role in a spouse's infidelity. So I haven't a clue if he's SA or not. There are warning signs that he could have gone down that road (the meaningless anonymous sex, for example). I think, next to him, you're in the best position to determine his motives in going outside the marriage. I confess it all seems to have been dealt with quickly and easily and I tend to be leery of quick-fixes because I think infidelity is generally the result of deeply rooted issues. But if he's eager to continue counselling and you're both finding MC working for you, then bravo to both of you. It's nice to hear a success story and I truly hope he has decided to cherish what he has.


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

1Forward -- thanks for posting that info from that other site. I think that helps a lot.

I went to my second SAnon group last night. The group hasn't met since Jan. (it's very small -- but last night there were two new members) so I wasn't sure about it. But with more people, it seemed better and I got a lot out of it.


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Exclaimation  Posted: 11:43 AM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Frog, I sent you a PM.

McKlain asked:

So what do we think about the connection between Sex Addiction and paedophilia?

NOT all SAs are sex offenders (including pedophiles) and in fact, NOT all sex offenders are SA. It's complicated. But no one should be freaking out and assuming that all SAs are pedophiles who will prey on their children. Everyone needs to read Carnes. Thanks 1Forward for posting that!


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
FeistyWoman
♀ Member
Member # 19093
Default  Posted: 1:06 PM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Short Vent against Patrick Carnes - and IC's who think they get to tell me what I should know!

So my WH had is 1st appt with his IC -she has a lot of experience with SA, which is great. But, of course, the topic of "disclosure" came up and she talked a little bit about being concerned about sharing too much (it can get "burned in my psyche"). Then I opened the Patrick Carnes workbook that my WH is going to start on and there is a line in there that says "remember, spouses just need general categories, they don't need details."

Pardon my french -but who the fuck are they to tell me what I need to know!!!

This pisses me off sooooooo much. Like my WH gets to fuck around on me for 12 years and then he (along with a therapist and some guy in a book) get to decide what I "should" know. How patronizing is that?

It is my pysche and I get to decide what is burned into it! Essentially it sounds like--don't share so many details that your SO might get so freaked out that they immediately dump you. Just share enough to get the story out-then focus on how to improve yourself. Never mind if the SO is left trying to figure out the real story.

As you can tell, this has really gotten to me. Luckily, my WH is very clear (and was clear before he went to see the IC) that I get to decide what I need to know. I have asked VERY detailed questions. At one point, WH balked at answering some of those, but I just told him that for right now, this is what I need. He told the IC that he was going to tell me whatever I needed to know.

As of this week, I would say that helped, because I am not obsessing so much about the details.

I just don't get how anyone thinks that is supposed to be helpful--setting some 'rule' about what spouses get to know--when we are trying to get over the fact that we have been lied to and manipulated for however long it has been.

Ok-I'll try to wind down now. I need to make an appointment with my WH's IC (she wants to see me alone once) and I will definitely make it clear to her that she will not be helping us by encouraging him to keep information from me.

Done now.

[This message edited by FeistyWoman at 1:08 PM, May 7th (Wednesday)]


Me - BS
Him - WH (SA)
Dday #1 3-20-08 Dday #2 4-9-08
2 children
Married 11 years, together 20
Him-3 massage parlor visits starting 1996; 1 yr arrangement w/prostitute;6 ONS(women); 1 full massage with man
Me-Totally clueless until 3-20-08

Posts: 111 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Midwest
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Feisty, I totally hear you! I freaked out and got all kinds of pissed off at first too.

The more I've read about it the more I see that while therapists (including Carnes) do make suggestions about disclosure, they are just suggestions. It is addressed fairly well in "MASH" (I'm going to start referring to the book "Mending a Shattered Heart" as MASH, it's too long to type out every time). It basically says that the betrayed spouse needs to decide what level of information they want and the addict and therapist should respect that.

I'm with you, I wanted to know what I wanted to know, when I wanted to know it. I'm not a person who got "mind movies" that I couldn't get past. There are some women who can't move forward if they get too many details. I understand that. I'm not one of them. I'm just the opposite. What I was IMAGINING was far worse than the reality. I needed to know details for my own sanity. I think the conventional wisdom is coming around about that. It is happening slowly but it is happening. Hopefully, therapists will start taking it on a case by case basis rather than trying to shove everyone into one box.

Perhaps you can set up an appointment with your FWH AND his counselor so that you can address this head-on. That way you're not wondering what the counselor is telling your FWH and she will know your stance on it as well. If you can make your case and explain that you're not "pain-shopping" things may go more smoothly.

We did not have the benefit of a formal, supervised disclosure. I got it from him on my own before he even sought counseling. I did ask about specific sexual acts to determine my risk of STDs. I asked about his use of condoms. I asked WHERE they had sex. I needed to know if he ever screwed anyone in my home. I have a RIGHT to know if he screwed anyone in my home. So, of course, the fall out of that is that Motel 6 is a trigger for me, so be it, at least my own home or bed isn't. I also asked about sexual activity in our vehicles. Again, that is something I have a right to know in my opinion. Some might think it's twisted that I have a color coded detailed spreadsheet of his infidelities. That's their problem. This is for me. For my recovery and I needed it. There was so much information that I needed to be able to keep it all straight. What works for me, may not work for others. Everyone has to find what works for them.

ETA: I think if you go into the appointment with his IC (I just re-read your post and saw that you're going to do that) with your list of what you want to know and you go through it line by line, you will be able to explain to her why you're asking for these things. If there is something on there that she doesn't agree with or understand, at least you can make your case.

[This message edited by 7yrsbetrayed at 2:06 PM, May 7th (Wednesday)]


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 6:59 PM, May 7th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I really struggled with that as well. My husband's IC was adamant that he do a "disclosure" -- in which I was with my IC and my husband was with him. Then, from the sounds of it, he would catalogue all his encounters. I had already asked for and heard all the info I wanted -- I did ask for a lot, from what type of underwear the women wore to whether he had to walk by family photos at their homes, and all sorts of other info. Bizarre perhaps (I'm a writer so I do tend to love the details -- helps me create a picture in my mind). At first it was excruciating knowing, but I'm doubt it would have been less excruciating not knowing. I tended to fill in the details myself if I didn't have them and they were decidedly more romantic, sexy, wild than they were in real life.
So...when the notion of this disclosure was presented to me, I completely balked. Sounded more like an ambush to me and I said I didn't want it. And they respected that. What I did say I wanted and haven't received (not sure I even still want it) was a written inventory of everything. I figured I could read it and stop at my own will. Now I don't think I really need that...or particularly want it. I think it can be important in the beginning to ensure that the SA fully acknowledges the depth and severity of his betrayal, lives, etc. etc. But 1 1/2 years in, it seems a bit redundant.
In any case, that's my two cents. Stick to your guns and let them follow your lead. You're the injured party here and deserve to have your wishes respected. And those wishes can change -- there shouldn't be a statute of limitations on the info you want and when you want it.


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

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