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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Spouses/Partners Of Sex Addicts
pebbles
♀ Member
Member # 13870
Default  Posted: 5:15 PM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks 7 for your contribution to this thread.

You have given me alot to think about.

(((((((7yrsbetrayed)))))))


me: BS
Dday 7/23/05
This former rock has been blasted into a mound of pebbles.

Posts: 1283 | Registered: Mar 2007
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 7:13 PM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You are welcome pebbles. PM me anytime if you need to.

Gosh, I feel like I hogged page 39. I hope everyone will backtrack to see all my individual responses. I wanted to give each of you my full attention instead of lumping everyone into one post.

7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
Marcia
Member
Member # 6503
Default  Posted: 11:57 PM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is no "normal" when you're dealing with a SA. Everything he says and does is run through his distorted filter. Period. Don't let him manipulate you that way.

More excellent advice, 7.

About the "cold turkey", I'm not convinced, although I see you and many people are quite adamant, and I'm certainly no expert.

With my XH, the treatment was trying to get it down to once a day, then once every two days, etc. Mark Twain said "Habit is habit and not to be flung out of the window by any man, but coaxed downstairs a step at a time." Of course he wasn't an expert either, but I wonder.

Cold Turkey seems to be such a complete blindsiding of the behavior. Maybe that's needed? But who can withstand it?

Contradicting all that is the fact that my xh never seems to have succeeded. But I can imagine many people simply refuse to go cold turkey, and as a result never get even a slight grip on their problem.

None of which would bother me except that they still feel the need to have a "normal" relationship on the side, well just look what I've said. Which relationship is the one on the side again? The "normal" one or the one with the addiction? Hmm.


WHEN DID THE RULES CHANGE?
How did I miss the memo???

People: Read up on the 180!
Oh, and I'm boycotting Nike forever ;)


Posts: 225 | Registered: Feb 2005 | From: Washington DC
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 12:51 AM, June 11th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

About the "cold turkey", I'm not convinced, although I see you and many people are quite adamant, and I'm certainly no expert.

With my XH, the treatment was trying to get it down to once a day, then once every two days, etc. ...

Cold Turkey seems to be such a complete blindsiding of the behavior. Maybe that's needed? But who can withstand it?


My rSAH for one. He went cold turkey and about 4 to 6 weeks later went through serious withdrawal. Detox if you will. Was it fun? HELL NO! Was it easy? Uh, NO! Was it worth it? YOU BET!!! I credit his continued sobriety with his going cold turkey and riding it out. He's never slipped sexually in over 21 months. If he'd been told he could "wean off" he'd still be masturbating and he wouldn't be sober.

Contradicting all that is the fact that my xh never seems to have succeeded. But I can imagine many people simply refuse to go cold turkey, and as a result never get even a slight grip on their problem.

Honestly, if that was the approach taken it's no wonder he never got sober. He was being enabled to use! Are alcoholics told to "wean off" of the booze? No. In most cases you do not wean a drug addict off of drugs either. The only difference here is that the sex addict's drug is IN his brain naturally which quite frankly makes it even more important for him to go cold turkey.

None of which would bother me except that they still feel the need to have a "normal" relationship on the side, well just look what I've said. Which relationship is the one on the side again? The "normal" one or the one with the addiction? Hmm.

There's food for thought. I feel that my rSAH was seeking "normal" with me. He knew his addiction was not "normal" that's why he had to hide it. If it was "normal" there'd be no shame and it's all about shame.


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
PTRN
♀ Member
Member # 19730
Default  Posted: 5:42 AM, June 11th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Since I started reading this thread, I swear I can pick up on my H wanting to go and act out. Literally as if a dark fog passes over his face, and I can tell he wants to go make a "date" or retreat to his man cave to watch porn, and is struggling not to do so. Weirdest thing ever.

Posts: 214 | Registered: Jun 2008
beagle lover
♀ New Member
Member # 19694
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, June 11th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I should be clear my WH is not sold on this therapist. He's going to give him a couple more sessions to see since he's only been twice.

We're having a serious problem finding someone available evenings with addiction experience. The fact that RI laws make it a haven for SA adds insult to injury. This counselor does have experience with addictions.
I spoke to WH about my feelings on cold turkey vs. weaning and that I was uncomfortable with it. WH has not looked at porn in 2 weeks, is faithfully reading "Out of the Shadows", but wonders if porn/mast. addiction is more like heroin recovery than alcohol where you have to wean off it. I told him I just don't feel comfortable with it because it could easily get him dependent upon that once a week ritual when we need to get him into "normal" behaviors.

But thanks for the reinforcement of my gut feeling.


Me 33
WH 37 SA/Porn Addict/had ONS with OM and EA with ex co-worker
Married 10 years
No kids
Lots of D-Days along the way, but ONS D-Day 5/28/08
Going to give R another chance. Hoping for honesty this time around

Posts: 50 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Rhode Island
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, June 11th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WH has not looked at porn in 2 weeks, is faithfully reading "Out of the Shadows", but wonders if porn/mast. addiction is more like heroin recovery than alcohol where you have to wean off it.

No, he's trying to "manage and enjoy" his addiction. Heroin addicts *can* go cold turkey but it's not advisable because of the detox which is insanely brutal.

Here's a first hand account of detoxing off heroin cold turkey:

By Anonymous, 30, artist's assistant

The first twenty-four hours are totally fine. You feel like you're getting a cold. You have a lot of mucus in the back of your throat. You get really sleepy. You yawn a lot. You crash for, like, fourteen hours.

The next day is fucking terrible. That's when the physical problems start: constantly shitting, pissing, spitting, everything just flowing out of you. You feel achy, twitchy. You can't focus. The restlessness is intolerable.

Every nerve ending is flared up. Everything feels raw. The wind blows and it hurts. You can't stand wearing clothes. You can't stand not wearing clothes.

I didn't sleep for like three days. I'd have a nap for an hour here and there.

When you first begin to kick, you masturbate wildly, because you're starving for drugs, and as anyone would tell you, an orgasm feels very similar to two Valiums hitting your system at once. But after a while you feel too gnarled out and too sensitive to do it.

You know the scene in Trainspotting where he sees a dead baby crawl across the ceiling? None of that stuff happened to me. I never had hallucinations. But the one thing that scene gets across is that you totally lose touch with the world. You're consumed with this one idea, and that one idea is: You need to go get drugs because this isn't working. Your body sends that message over and over.

I felt utterly stripped of joy. Everything was flat. I tried to live an hour at a time. I'd say, Well, in fifteen minutes I'm going to eat an ice-cream sandwich. Maybe that will be good. Of course it's not true, but you play this game with yourself. Whatever you can do to get through that day.

After the third day, you start to recede. You don't feel like your skin is about to lift off your body quite as much. It actually feels good to take a hot shower. Sitting in front of a heater is nice.

I asked my husband about his withdrawal (which doesn't happen until anywhere from 3 to 6 weeks after stopping masturbation) and there is no comparison. He laughed when he heard the comparison to withdrawing from heroin. My FWH was extremely anxious and he struggled with his distorted thinking and his urges but it was not debilitating.

On the other hand, he admits that the "drug" itself might be as intense as heroin. He says the high he got from masturbation was so intense he knew that cold turkey was the only way to go. He knows that if he got one little hit he would plummet into the abyss. He would start obsessing about it and fall so far off the wagon he wouldn't even be able to FIND the wagon. If he'd been getting little tastes he would never have gotten sober and maintained his sobriety.

[This message edited by 7yrsbetrayed at 12:09 PM, June 11th (Wednesday)]


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
beagle lover
♀ New Member
Member # 19694
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, June 11th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I in no way was trying to compare porn withdrawal with heroin withdrawal. (I lost someone very close to me in high school who was a heroin addict that killed himself by jumping in front of a train). I was just posing a question my WH posed based on a conversation with his IC. I shared the answer with WH and he thought that made much more sense

[This message edited by beagle lover at 3:53 PM, June 11th (Wednesday)]


Me 33
WH 37 SA/Porn Addict/had ONS with OM and EA with ex co-worker
Married 10 years
No kids
Lots of D-Days along the way, but ONS D-Day 5/28/08
Going to give R another chance. Hoping for honesty this time around

Posts: 50 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Rhode Island
peridot
♀ Member
Member # 18334
Default  Posted: 4:03 PM, June 11th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7 yrs, he's in SA. Btw, I started NC on him again today. It's hard as hell but that is what I think I need to do for me to get passed all this because I don't think he is going to change.

I start my own counseling tomorrow and I am going to a divorce group tonight. They also have something to help the kids to,which I thought was great.

I'm trying to move on with my life now as hard as that is. I have to do it for myself and the kids.


I think...therefore, I'm single.

It is what it is.


Posts: 4488 | Registered: Feb 2008
beagle lover
♀ New Member
Member # 19694
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, June 11th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Peridot, I am sorry it's come to this, but I am very glad you have support in place. hugs to you.


Me 33
WH 37 SA/Porn Addict/had ONS with OM and EA with ex co-worker
Married 10 years
No kids
Lots of D-Days along the way, but ONS D-Day 5/28/08
Going to give R another chance. Hoping for honesty this time around

Posts: 50 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Rhode Island
beagle lover
♀ New Member
Member # 19694
Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, June 11th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh I wanted to add that I got angry at WH last night. He overslept and missed the vet appointment that it took me 2 months to get. I was so pissed he missed it after reminding him and asking him if he needed an alarm set to wake him up. I mean geez - it was a 7:20pm appointment and he has been off work all week - how hard is it to stay awake on an evening off? I way over reacted because it was the stress of my past few weeks, plus the situation with the herpes and the ons. It felt good to get it out, because ordinarily i would have been afraid my anger would stress him out to drive him to porn/masturbation. And rightfully so - that's his stress relief. But he didn't, and I am proud of him. And also relieved to finally release some anger even if it was misplaced.

[This message edited by beagle lover at 4:15 PM, June 11th (Wednesday)]


Me 33
WH 37 SA/Porn Addict/had ONS with OM and EA with ex co-worker
Married 10 years
No kids
Lots of D-Days along the way, but ONS D-Day 5/28/08
Going to give R another chance. Hoping for honesty this time around

Posts: 50 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Rhode Island
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 5:01 PM, June 11th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

peridot,
7 yrs, he's in SA.

That's a good start but he needs to see a CSAT too. Going to SA is not the magic bullet. It's rarely enough. But at least he's going to SA that is something. If he gets a good sponsor he might do well.

Btw, I started NC on him again today. It's hard as hell but that is what I think I need to do for me to get passed all this because I don't think he is going to change.

He may. He may not. Right now he's just a mind fuck and you're doing what you need to do for you and your kids. That's the important thing. You are strong and I'm proud of you! Staying is easy. Leaving is hard.

I start my own counseling tomorrow and I am going to a divorce group tonight. They also have something to help the kids to,which I thought was great.

I'm trying to move on with my life now as hard as that is. I have to do it for myself and the kids.


I'm so glad you're getting support! It's great that there are resources for your kids too. You're doing a great job.


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 5:04 PM, June 11th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

beagle,
I in no way was trying to compare porn withdrawal with heroin withdrawal. (I lost someone very close to me in high school who was a heroin addict that killed himself by jumping in front of a train). I was just posing a question my WH posed based on a conversation with his IC. I shared the answer with WH and he thought that made much more sense

I didn't think you were making the comparison but it did seem your WH was so I addressed it. You shared what I said and he said that made more sense? That's great! It sounds like he's got an open mind. That's a good thing.


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
2br02b
♀ Member
Member # 19664
Default  Posted: 8:37 PM, June 11th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just re-read this. Do you mean Certified Sex ADDICTION Therapist?

There is a huge difference between a the two.

MC is one referred off the Mayo Clinic website under "paraphilia" and she's working closely with the SAA principles. Not rightly sure if she's a CSAT or not. I will have to inquire.


Me 51
Him 53 (and SA)
D-Day#1 9/19/1981
D-Day#2 11/23/2008
D-Day#3 - 6/6/09 (Actually D-Day!) - full disclosure given.
Forgiveness - 8/30/09
Married 29 years
2 adult children
Reconciling
2BR02B - that is the question.

Posts: 81 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Phoenix, AZ
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 10:39 PM, June 11th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC is a certified Sex Therapist. We see as a couple and he individually. Also weekly SAA meetings.

Okay, I'm reading more closely and see a couple problems. First, in my opinion, your MC and his IC should NOT be the same person. He needs to be seeing a CSAT for his IC. In my opinion that is imperative. The second issue is SAA, see below.

MC is one referred off the Mayo Clinic website under "paraphilia" and she's working closely with the SAA principles. Not rightly sure if she's a CSAT or not. I will have to inquire.

In my opinion, him seeing a MC that is "working closely with the SAA principles" is not enough. First of all I have serious issues with SAA (versus SA www.sa.org) because SAA is too lax in their definition of sobriety. And frankly, I just don't think a MC is qualified to treat his sex addiction. (If you'd like to PM me her name I'd be happy to research and will gladly eat my words if she is a CSAT, but I've never heard of a CSAT who also did MC)

I did some research and found that there are many CSATs in Phoenix. Have you gone to http://www.iitap.com/find_csat.cfm and done a search?

Lastly, as we've discussed in this thread his seeing a female counselor for IC is probably not a good idea. With a male SA it's better that they see a male CSAT who is also a rSA (recovering Sex Addict)

These are just my opinions based on my 3 years of experience (since DDay #1) living with an SA in and out of recovery and my very active involvement on these boards. I've done a lot of research and reading. I'm certainly not an expert and I don't claim to be one. I just very much want to share my knowledge and experience with women who are new to this. I had no resources, no help, no one reaching out to me when I was faced with this and it was awful.

7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
peridot
♀ Member
Member # 18334
Default  Posted: 11:03 PM, June 11th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Peridot, I am sorry it's come to this, but I am very glad you have support in place. hugs to you.

Thanks

That's a good start but he needs to see a CSAT too. Going to SA is not the magic bullet. It's rarely enough. But at least he's going to SA that is something. If he gets a good sponsor he might do well.

He's not even serious about that. If it wasn't free or close to it he said he wasn't going. That right there showed me how serious he was lol! I feel like he is a lost cause and I just need to go on with my life. If he were serious about getting help that would be a whole other story but he isn't.


I think...therefore, I'm single.

It is what it is.


Posts: 4488 | Registered: Feb 2008
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 11:42 PM, June 11th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If he were serious about getting help that would be a whole other story but he isn't.

You have your answer and if it helps at all I think that you're doing the right thing. I agree that he hasn't hit bottom or faced this and it's not looking like he ever will. Save yourself. Save your children. Let him go. It's his burden and he'll have to reap what he sows.

That said, I know that knowing all that on an intellectual level doesn't do jack shit for your emotional state. This HURTS. It's devastating to be forced to give up on your marriage. Your hopes. Your dreams. Your life has been literally ripped out from under you through no fault of your own. IT SUCKS!! You need to mourn it. It's like a death. It really is. So take care of YOU. You deserve it. You are a valuable person. You MATTER.

{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}
7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
2br02b
♀ Member
Member # 19664
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, June 12th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I did some research and found that there are many CSATs in Phoenix. Have you gone to http://www.iitap.com/find_csat.cfm and done a search?

Looked up MC and she's not a CSAT. I have saved the list of counselors who ARE CSAT's and will discuss that with H. I think this counselor has done well with his form of addicition being less A's and more paraphilic (transvestic fetishism). I also think she's been very productive with us as a couple. However, I understand the point of seeing a CSAT. There are time when H says "I am not sure she gets it". Maybe he's right.
Lastly, as we've discussed in this thread his seeing a female counselor for IC is probably not a good idea. With a male SA it's better that they see a male CSAT who is also a rSA (recovering Sex Addict)

I am not concerned with her being a woman. She looks like the Church Lady and to hear discuss the sexual bits with H is rather humorous. I imagine that having an rSA would be very beneficial but I am not so sure the woman issue is that important to his autogynephilia.

However, I really appreciate all the advice and support I am getting on this forum.

You all ROCK!


Me 51
Him 53 (and SA)
D-Day#1 9/19/1981
D-Day#2 11/23/2008
D-Day#3 - 6/6/09 (Actually D-Day!) - full disclosure given.
Forgiveness - 8/30/09
Married 29 years
2 adult children
Reconciling
2BR02B - that is the question.

Posts: 81 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Phoenix, AZ
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, June 12th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

2br02b,
Maybe he needs to see both if she is specifically treating or focusing on his transvestic fetishism or autogynephilia. ( I have to admit I had to look those up. You're educating me as well. This is a good thing! There is no shame in being open and honest and sharing our stories. I commend you. I suspect that many women would not be able to share these things. Thank you!)

The reason I say male SAs should see male CSATs is not solely because they might be attracted to a woman, it's that my rSAH and the men in his group all say they feel that they could never be fully and completely honest with a woman ("it's easier to talk to a man") and that they even struggle being honest with a man who is not a rSAH. I should have been more clear, sorry!

7

[This message edited by 7yrsbetrayed at 10:15 AM, June 12th (Thursday)]


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, June 13th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is a lot of really good discussion in the "For those suffering P T S D" thread. Even if you don't think you have it, the discussions in the thread still might be helpful to you. There are a bunch of us from this thread in there and we don't always focus completely on just PTSD we wander into living with a SA a lot.

Just wanted everyone to know it's available as another resource.
7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
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