First of all, (((7yrs)))- I read your post in general and I'm sorry that you're dealing with the sewage...And I'm sorry someone stole your bench! Bastards! May they get pressure sores on their bums when they sit on it!
I have to agree with the co-dep/co-addict labels making me crazy too- I am with you all in the fact that I HAD NO IDEA, if I did, I would not be here... We are standing up for ourselves and taking control to better our lives... I don't think that we deserve a label- WE haven't done ANYTHING but try to educate ourselves and try to uphold our end of the marriage vows!
But I digress....
(Sorry, but that has been eating at me too lately)
It seems that you need to put your foot down. I know you are hoping that counseling will help to clarify the situation for him, but there needs to be consequences for what he is doing.... If it makes you uncomfortatable, he needs to realize that you will not put up with it. If you threaten, but don't follow through, then they are just empty threats... You may want to sit him down and tell him that you want him to take an SA test. Tell him you've been doing research and you want him to see that what he's been doing is not what is considered normal sexual behavior. He has to see it for himself and have an "aha" moment. Otherwise you are wasting your time unfortunately. I wish you luck- please keep us updated... It sounds like you are correct in your assumption.
(And LisaP- I think you should do the same thing if you haven't already...His behavior is NOT normal and what "all guys do".
ETA:I think I was combining both of your stories in my head- sorry if the advice seems wrong to either one of you- I had to go back and re-read...
As for the groping discussion- I swear, the more I read the posts on this forum, the more my life makes sense... That has been a point of irritation for me from the very beginning- My H loves to do that... Also with the spanking thing (hard!) I have told him so many times how much I hate it and he would still do it- Crazy how similar the behaviors are....All of it- the lack of intimacy, the highs and lows with sex drive- Even down to OUR feelings... It continues to amaze me how much I can relate to every one of your stories...Thank you all so much for sharing so much- It really helps me continue to realize that this is a disease, and just like any other, there are symptoms and patterns and it is so amazing how much control we (and our SA spouses) think we have, but really we are still battling a disease that needs treatment and "medicine" (I use that figuratively.... I have to keep reminding myself that he may have been a selfish and self-serving man n the past, but he also has a serious cross to bear and he is trying his hardest to get through it and keep his "disease" in check.
(I've had some angry moments lately and I find myself in that place that's yelling "WHAT ABOUT ME?! DOES ANYONE CARE ABOUT WHAT I'M FEELING?" I remember reading some posts awhile ago about that and how so much attention is focused on the SA spouse and their healing, that the BS may feel inconsequential... I had a big discussion at counseling tonight about that.) It really IS harder to R with the addictive component...
I had one more point to add- Someone was asking about why their H didn't like strip clubs, when they liked all this other stuff... I totally understand- My H doesn't either, never has... I think it has something to do with the fact that there are other people there... For my H, everything was secret and anonymous (which made it more exciting)... I think strip clubs are too "public". Just an observation from my situation- Maybe it will help answer that nagging feeling...
So sorry for the loooong post, but I had a lot on my mind and wanted to catch up with those who have been so helpful to me...
Day by day, one foot in front of the other...
Edited b/c it's late and my brain has too much other junk in it to keep stories straight! Sorry- (I just turned 30 last week- Can I blame it on Alzheimer's yet?)
[This message edited by innerstrength at 11:59 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)]
It's for my FWH and I. We just got Carnes book and I read most of it and he's almost done. However, most of what is discussed in the book doesn't really apply to my H and therefore he's decided he doesn *not* have a sexual addiction.
I don't know if he *technically* could be classified as a "sex addict," but he did frequent strip clubs for many years with the frequency escalating, spending $$ we didn't have to go there, going by himself in secrecy, and then also had a 4 yr. LTA
while he was going to strip clubs.
The thing with Carnes book is he says that sex addicts typically think about sex almost 24/7 and will do anything and everything to fulfill their needs. This sounds much more excessive than what my FWH has done, however I would definitely say his behavior was "addictive."
Anyway, if anyone can recommend another book that talks about lesser forms of sex addiction, that would be great!
Innerstrength, I do need to put my foot down more. I feel ready to turn over a new leaf.
It is amazing how similar our stories are. I think we could all get together and write a pamphlet about all the Red Flags of a SA.
OH doesn't realize how much this compromises our relationship. One example is yesterday. He was viewing escorts ( I know thanks to some good detective work) instead of answering my calls or texts. How is that supposed to make me feel? Not to mention how this has affected our sex life.
I hate that I've almost become obsessed with what he does. I'm going to back off...just a wee bit...and take more time off for myself. I want to work on reading books about SA as well as other things.
I really, really think OH may be a SA. I see him in so many posts here.
20097 Posted: 5:46 PM, July 5th (Saturday), 2008
Hi. Haven't done my profile yet..but you can see in my sig. line the gist of my story. I kicked my H. out 2 months ago after learning he was going to massage parlors even though we've been in counseling, etc. ...was NEW behavior...& since then he finally hit bottom & realizes he truly is a SA. We did a 2nd disclosuure w/ our counselor...So, his account. groups, etc. are even more now still goes to counselor who specializes in SA)he got a sponsor in SA...he desperately wants his family back...
but I don't know what to do...he now has 30 days or so of no M./sobriety (is doing 90 days sobriety 1st)...but of course, this is all a nightmare...been doing this for 18 months now...he got busted w/ porn initially...
But his acting out was w/ massage parlor girls...and several...I had no idea...but now knowing he crossed this new line...I'm just devestated...we've been married 21 years..2 girls...
And the separation (he's at his mom's)is hard on everyone...He cut all contact w/ OW, etc. but just knowing those places are around us--tons of them...
Seems like most of you are dealing w/ regular affairs...anyone had my situation?
My H. grew up w/ horrific abuse w/ all caretakers...but I never knew of his sex addiction...he was always a rather attentive loving H. & father...
OH has been looking up escorts, massage parlors, adult travel, etc. Is there any farfetched chance he's not physically cheated????
The hardest part of dealing with him is all the lies. He lied to me again, and said he hadn't looked up escorts recently. Yet he was at the adult forum today, and he has been looking up prostitutes for weeks. In fact, 3 days ago he looked up about 40 escort profile. Two days ago he looked at nearly 80, that's right 80, pictures of whores at a forum. Does he think I'm dumb or something? Obviously I can't trust him, and I want to put Keylogger on his computer.
Last night I had a dream he was looking up escorts and roaming the streets looking for prostitutes. He said I was crazy for suspecting that he might do that.
[This message edited by lovedontlivehere at 10:06 PM, July 5th (Saturday)]
I feel like a spouse who cheats, a spouse who keeps really odd hours and is a mostly absent father, a spouse who is an SA, a spouse with so many physical and mental health issues, and one who does things like punch holes in walls in anger when he cannot find matching socks,is just a bad mix of crap. Any ONE of these would be reason to leave.
Such a fucking mess. And all so, so senseless.
I also suspect that my lack of libido in the past year has been related to his SA. Way before I suspected infidelity, I felt objectified, and said as much.
My STD tests are clean, and his first one so far is, but I feel like he's lucky I'm still here. I'm not going to fuck someone who I can't trust. End of story.
See, if he wasn't in the mood I'd have to wait weeks on end and do everything to seduce him to get some intimacy. But he can't even wait for me to completely wake up. It was very difficult to enjoy intimacy when he wasn't into it, but he still got his today despite my lack of interest.
Even if I wasn't half asleep, his lack of honesty is a complete turnoff.
It's probably not a coincidence that he's been friskier since I've mentioned going to counseling.
My h. is rather computer-challenged, which is why he never did e-mail, chats, etc...He actually heard a doctor in his account. group "share" about how easy it was to go to massage parlors & that lodged in my H's head...and he began this new behavior in the midst of trying to get sober from porn & M....but once the counselor went into his extremely abusive childhood, he lost it...
I live in S. Calif...there are sleazy massage parlors everywhere...
I'm trying to figure out if/when to let him come back home...
HOW did some of you decide to R? Did u make a list or what!
***I don't sem to be getting responses much on this forum...but I've been reading u guys lots...thank you!
My gut says run, but because we have a very small child, and once had a good relationship I'm willing to give counseling one honest try. I also live in a major city, and have not really WOH in almost 5 years. (I returned to school, and have freelanced here and there.)
Basically I feel I owe it to my son, who is completely innocent here, to not make hasty, emotional decisions.
My WH sleeps in our old room. The one where he invited a hooker to spend the night with him on Mother's Day. I sleep in another room, and will until this is truly resolved one way or another. (And the bed is burned. )
If my WH or I had moved out, I would keep the space until both time AND actions had consistently proven he was willing and able to change. I've seen people take spouses back again and again in other abusive situations--I consider SA physically abusive to some degree---and it was not pretty. I'd keep the control you have, FWIW.
Whether or not to R is a tough decision that only you can make. For me, it helped dramatically that my husband was the one who told ME he was SA and had already found an SA counsellor. I knew nothing of his "other" life. I knew he'd had -- I thought -- one affair with his assistant. After me finding out about that -- and him seeing how devastated I was, he hit bottom and decided to get help before telling me about the rest (he hoped he'd never have to tell me the rest, but his counsellor insisted he couldn't recover without total honesty).
So, I think for you, it comes down to what your husband is willing to do to achieve his own recovery and create a marriage that works for both of you.
That's the bottom line. Without his commitment to honesty and sobriety from whatever his acting out behaviour was (and anything else that falls under SA -- he can't substitute new behaviour for the old), then you're commiting yourself to a whole lotta pain and disappointment, in my opinion.
But keep reading and keep posting. It'll become clearer to you...
From a practical aspect, ducks in a row and reading so much advice about not making a decision in the heat of the moment, if at all possible.
his counsellor insisted he couldn't recover without total honesty
People: Read up on the 180!
Oh, and I'm boycotting Nike forever ;)
Hopefully, after our counselling session tomorrow I can share how or if OH and I plan to R. Right now if he does't comply with NC, remorse, honesty, and complete transparency there's no chance of R. I have a more detailed list of my demands.
PTRN, part of the reason I'm willing to go to counseling is that our relationship has been generally good before all this started. Other than this, he is generally good. He's thoughtful, caring, brings me flowers, generally sweet, but for whatever reason he keep son hurting me like this. If he was a total a$$ I would have already left.
I just want the guy he used to be to come back.
[This message edited by lovedontlivehere at 9:41 PM, July 6th (Sunday)]
I don't fault anyone for going to counseling. We're headed there as well--I feel I owe all affected as much. Just wanted to clarify in case that was not clear.
I do think that a SA WH who pulls up 40 escort profiles has probably acted on that impulse. Does he have a cellphone? If so, check the statement online if you can. If you see calls at odd hours or to numbers that seem unfamiliar, run the phone numbers through Google.
Typically they call, the escort calls back to verify that the client is who they claimed to be, then they arrange a meeting place from there.
So what you're looking for is a series of very brief calls--one outgoing, then the escort calling back, and then probably your WH calling the escort again to let them know he is at the hotel.
On our bills it would look like 12:03 am call to escort. 12:05 am, incoming call from strange number--sometimes same sometimes not---12:15 call to original escort #.
He does have a cell phone and a blackberry. If he wants to stay with me, checking his phone records is going to be one of my demands. You are right, he probably has done something if he has viewed 40 profiles in a single sitting, not even counting the other days I've been monitoring him.
The *shrug* didn't mean anything, I've just been doing that a lot lately. Next, I'll be throwing my hands up. Sorry if i caused any misunderstanding.
[This message edited by lovedontlivehere at 9:11 AM, July 7th (Monday)]