Where is everyone?
I went to visit my H, remember? I was gone Thursday-Monday. I've been posting about it on the LTA thread here.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on things but it's been a huge outpouring for me over there and majorly draining. If you are willing to cross-read and post back over here, that would be cool. If not, I understand and I will try to post a summary when I'm up to it.
Anyway, it starts with my first post on page 9, at 8:32 pm yesterday (Tuesday), and pretty much wraps up with my post on page 10 around 4pm today: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=166359&AP=161
It's not looking good, but I think I'm truly starting to come to peace with it, whatever happens.
[This message edited by incrisis at 4:11 PM, May 23rd (Wednesday)]
Do any of you discuss your feelings about the A or anything else with your WS while they are gone?
"It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." Frederick Douglass (1818-1895)
We're 6 months out and although I'm thinking this will not ever reach true R, we seem to have settled into a pattern of talking about the A and what's up with us 1-3 times a week. Overall, we talk 5-7 days a week.
Why do you ask?
He claims he is trying to change but Geesh.
I have little patience for his pitying act, but I do try to encourage him to help set the parameters of how and when we talk about things. Like we'll limit the number of questions for the day (though there may be "sub"-questions--those don't count! ), or we can pass on a topic until another time unless it's something absolutely critical for me to discuss right then. And we try not to end the conversation on a down note, so if we've just discussed something particularly emotional, we try to discuss something positive before hanging up, be it the kids or sports or positive memories and things about our relationship. I also thank him for talking to me and acknowledge that I know some of it is hard for him.
Erm, from the sound of what I just wrote...I am way too nice. But so long as it is getting me the information I want, I'm okay with it for now.
Does your H have any history of depression or mental health issues that you would be concerned about? If it really sounds more like depression than irritation, is he doing any IC where he is now or would he be willing/able to go? Coming to terms with their own wrongdoing can send a WS into depression, so it may be helpful for him to have someone to talk to to balance things out.
If he is just trying to guilt you with the "Do all of our conversations have to be negative?" line, I would ask him how positive an act does he think infidelity is? Tell him that you wish to God (or the emphasis of your choice) that they didn't have to be negative, ever, but what he did had an extremely negative impact on your M and your life in general. In order for you guys to get back to the positive, you have to deal with it, not pretend it never happened.
[This message edited by incrisis at 9:44 AM, May 24th (Thursday)]
One month after d-day, WH left for Iraq for 90 days. After 6weeks, I found out that he never went NC, or even stopped the A at all until two weeks before. By the time I found this out (and proof contact had stopped), I was ready to leave and he was ready to R. We had to spend the next 6wks trying to figure out how to make this work. He finally came clean about all sorts of things. But it was SO hard trusting.
WH has been home since the end of March. He's leaving for Iraq again in less than 24hrs, this time for 45 days.
One part of me totally trusts all the love and remorse he has. The other is majorly triggering to when he left before. We were in HB, so lovey dovey and remembering our 15yrs together. He left for Iraq in the morning, telling me his car was going to long term storage at work (yep- there is such a thing where he works for those w/ frequent overseas assignments). Turns out that he really lent FOW2 his car for that entire time- our one paid off asset! And she went with him to the airport, was the last to say goodbye!
Now I am hugely triggering, afraid to have sex, afraid not to have sex. I don't want to drive him to the airport, pretty much have to though. I want a break from him, but I want to cling to him.
So here I am, for the next 45 days of freak-outs, tears, ups, downs and whatever.
❣Your soulmate is the person who helps grow your soul into a better being rather than tearing it down❣
He's still on the plane, will be until sometime this evening. I'm fluctuating between triggering b/c of last time and feeling like I did when he left for boot camp when we first started dating.
He wrote an apology letter for me to read after he left. I posted about it in R.
I thought I needed a break from him, thought this would be easy, thought it would be hard, thought I needed him right here. I'm all over the map.
The distance sucks. Sounds like things have been going okay the last 2 months, though.
What plans do you have for you while he is gone?
incrisis--have you been unfaithful to the long distance relationship thread?
Unfortunately, I am on dial up right now and can't do too much reading. But I WILL get caught up, I promise.
And incrisis--you're right. YOU WILL BE OK, no matter what.
Hi Holly and lettinggo! Glad to see this thread getting some activity again!
I am about to be gone for about 5 days. Family vacay. Cross your fingers that it is lovely and nice for all!
All I want to know is...Can we actually R LD?
I mean, H and I email and talk on the phone on a regular basis. He sends cards and flowers to me. I send care packages to him.
I enjoy having the break from seeing him everyday while I heal. The break has given him a chance to pull his head out of his arse.
Something is missing...I know. I am entering my angry stage and he's not here.
All I want to know is...Can we actually R LD?
All I want to know right now is how did punky's vacation and incrisis anniversary go.
Punky. Incrisis. Where are you?
It's not so much that he forgot, because I knew he would. He sucks at special occasions and often only remembered in past years if I said something to him in the time approaching.
I'm mostly just mad at myself for a) still holding out that little bit of hope that there would be a delivery or card or something, and b) being so goddamn gullible. I haven't mentioned our anny since dday except early on to ask him if he cheated on them too. He CLAIMED that on our anniversaries he wasn't with anyone else, that that "wouldn't have felt right" (like any of it should have???) and he stayed alone those days. But if he can't even remember that it IS his anny, why would he have acted any different with his LTAP? So I'm pretty sure our anny is tainted too. I mean, everything is, but now it really is.
To top it all off, he called me Thursday night/Friday morning around 12:30a my time, 10:30p his. It was already our anniversary then for me, and for both of us by the time we hung up. We talked for almost two hours and nothing. He wanted to talk about the email I'd sent with the "must-haves and dealbreakers" and that tried to explain why, despite his words and the effort I do think he is making to work on "us," his actions (primarily lack of transparency) don't show that he gets it and him trying to preserve us doesn't necessarily preclude him also trying to still be a cake-eater.
So while my H is trying to convince me of his sincerity for two hours on the dawn of our anniversary, the whole time I am thinking...even if you are sincere, so what? Why go through all this crap, even if he could be a monogamous H, just to still have my needs unmet if his sensitivity and cluelessness aren't going to improve any?
He called this afternoon as I was waking from a nap and talked to the kids. Dd brought me the phone, saying he could call back to talk to them more tomorrow (we had to get ready for her recital tonight). He was all friendly but I told him it would be best if he just called back for them whenever. He was completely at a loss as to why I didn't want to talk and I told him he'd figure it out eventually, I had to go, and hung up. He called right back but I didn't answer and he didn't leave a message. Haven't heard from him since. Whatever.
[This message edited by incrisis at 12:35 AM, June 3rd (Sunday)]
We had a great time most of the time. I did snoop and found some old emails on his laptop. That was painful. I wrote a bit about it in JFO. These were from before Dday and from a previous OW (unfortunately, there have been more than one). So NC is probably still intact. But still...
I found the emails late at night and woke up the next morning at 5:30 am or so. We were at the beach. I sat out on the balcony and listened to the waves and just sobbed. My H got up--amazing since he usually sleeps in--I think he knew I had snooped and found something. We ended up going for a walk on the beach together. It was oddly comforting.
We didn't talk about it or the A or anything the whole vacation. But I did get a strong vibe that he is really starting to "get" the pain I am feeling.
He is back out of state and has called every day. So so great to hear from him often. It really is. He even said, "if you check my email on the laptop, turn the computer off so that the battery doesn't drain"...I was shocked. In the past when I've snooped, he's gone nuts and yelled. This is quite a change. Maybe he is starting to understand my need to know what happened to him, to me, to us...
Anyway--still no declaration from him that I am his only love, still no statement that he is committed to us and our family, still no formal reconciliation started. But baby steps perhaps in the right direction...
Everyone take care. Thanks for thinking of me.
[This message edited by punky at 6:58 PM, June 3rd (Sunday)]
As for me, I just want it to be known that I did vote for "big cosmic joke" a few months back.
Hollywood has nothing on me and my H.
So H calls today when I am home alone for a little bit. I asked if he was calling for the kids as they were out with my mom. He said he called to talk to me, if that was okay. Said he had no idea why I was po'ed with him this time (three days and he still hasn't recalled our anny) and that he knew I didn't want to talk to him, but he had something he wanted to tell me. I said fine, what is it?
He says he talked to OW "the other day." Who called who? He called her. He had a crazy dream that something bad happened to her and he wanted to check that she was okay. He says I know you will say that I shouldn't care and shouldn't have called but I am still trying to work things out in my head. I called, and so I wanted to let you know, as requested.
My mind is reeling at this point. Where to begin with how very WRONG this was, but also trying to stay calm and say I'm glad you told me. Is this a baby step?
So first I addressed the wrongness issue. HUGELY misplaced (and textbook) KISA tendencies he has, I say. It's not your place to be checking on her anymore (nor was it ever), and even if something was wrong, she has others there close to her who will do that, and you yourself have said that word would probably get back to you. He more or less agrees with me on everything about this, says it woke him up and he called her early in the AM, before he was fully alert. This is consistent with past behavior in our M, so believable. It was a short call, he says. I thank him for telling me.
Then I say, so when exactly did you talk to her? "Thursday or Friday," he says. We talked Thursday night, I say, was it before or after that? (Because assuming he is not a completely manipulative dickwad, he would have told me Thursday night had it been before.) After, he says. As I suspected. So, I say, perfectly calmly, "Just to be clear...just to be clear, you called HER on our anniversary, to check on her, but didn't call me, didn't send me anything or otherwise acknowledge the day?...I just want to make sure I have this straight."
Dead silence from him.
That is SO FUCKING FABULOUS!, I say, breaking out into hysterical laughter. "FUCKING FABULOUS! Wow. That is just... impressive!" The sheer fucktardedness of it all leaves me speechless after that.
"Oh man," he says. "Our anniversary. June 1. How did I miss that?" "I know how," I say, but am polite enough to refrain from telling him about how hard it is to see the calendar with your head up your ass.
He is very apologetic. Says almost to himself how he keeps fucking up, and several times throughout the rest of the convo. He is so sorry he missed such a perfect opportunity to make me feel better about us and our M. I say don't be, I didn't expect any different based on past behavior, even pre-A, but you have to love the irony of coincidence. I'm not trying to beat him up over it, it just shows how, despite his words, the actions don't line up. That I am trying to hang in there long enough to reach R, but everytime something like this happens, it's just another sign telling me how astray our M has gone and why should I?
We actually had a pretty good conversation, all things considered, about the whole KISA thing and him being hardass on the outside, sensitive marshmallow on the inside. I told him that I felt he took my RTW pre-A as a slap in the face and since I wouldn't depend on him, he decided to find other people who would. He said that was never a premeditated intent but admitted that he was hurt by my independence and that he was probably--in his words--"lashing out" at me by leaving. A figurative eff you, IC: "If you don't think you need me then fine, do it all yourself then. I'll go do my own thing and I'll show you." I told him that I was only ever trying to help and make things easier, which he can acknowledge now, but at the time he mostly gave me shit about it.
That was A YEARS overdue conversation.
If it were a criminal offense to marry an emotional INFANT, I swear I should have been locked up under the jail a long time ago. WTF was I thinking?
I read through your posts in the other thread (you thread-cheater you) and really think you need to evaluate the part about him not wanting to show you the phone. If NC has truly been established, what would be the problem? Also have a big problem with a pre-paid and no billing records. No way to prove anything--no way for him to prove that he's doing everything right!
Keep us posted. Good luck.
Sorry about the anniversary. I got shafted last year. But he was hot and heavy in the middle of it. It was painful.
My H, bless his heart but damn his soul, is trying to sell me another dream. He is good at spinning dreams, and I think he even believes in them himself,...but there's no commitment in a dream. There's no perseverance to do the hard work in a dream. Not forever if no good ever comes of it, but at least enough not to pull up and bolt at the first hurdle.
I am not buying the dream this time without some substantive actions to back it up. He doesn't seem to get it and I don't know how to make him understand.
He keeps trying to sell me on the new dream and saying "we'll just have to figure something out" as far as working through the crap, but there IS nothing to figure out. Either you're going to be transparent or you're not. Either you're going to make a real commitment--not just a situational one--or you're not.
At this point it's really not about any of the things I've asked him to do, or his (extremely misplaced) principles regarding them. It's about the fact that I asked. I cared. It was important to me. That's all it should have taken. All that should have mattered.
Apparently, he still matters to himself more.