welcome, although I wish I didn't have to welcome you to this forum...for people to have to go through the anguish of an A, but then to have to muddle through a double betrayal, is beyond words
But we are all here because we've been there.
And if any of us can help you in any way, just let us know.
My H had an A with my SIL/OW, and we all still live in a very close vacinity of each other, so I know the lasting effects of a double betrayal first hand.
"I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me."
It was a toxic, game of manipulation and control from the beginning. I am responsible for my own victimization because I chose to ignore my gut about her and fell into her games. After about 18mos. I woke up and realized, I really don’t care for her and why am I acting like her? I had no idea that I was being controlled. I “cooled” my interactions with her. This is when she and my H started to get closer. The A started about 4mos. later and yes, she was the gatekeeper and opened the gate. Her actual words to him were, “We have to have sex”.
The games she played during the affair with both me and my H were pretty twisted. It was like a little kid playing “I know something you don’t know” na, na, na, na, na. “Let’s put it to the man” and I was the man. I believe the whole thing was some twisted notion in her head that my mere existence diminished hers and I had to be destroyed.
I gained more than I lost. I gained priorities, re-found myself; I gained realization and appreciation for true friends and relatives, re-found how much I love my kids, and so much more. I lost nothing but a really sick person and tortured soul out of my life forever. Hey, That’s a gain too! My poor WH lost big time. His dignity, his integrity, his self-respect, his regard from others. But he is out of his fog and is starting to find gains too. I’m really glad I’m not him.
The FOW has no remorse. It just happened, it was no-body’s fault and I’m the psycho one for “not getting over it”. I am the reason she is being scorned by all and she’s not the problem, everybody else is. Her BH is falling into this too. Man, am I REALLY glad I’m not them!
I miss the man I thought he was, the man that he could be. Not the man he really is or the man he became. I don't miss her at all since she is a complete phony. I regret my naivetee but not my trusting nature. "You may get hurt if you trust too much but you will live forever in pain if you trust too little." Trust but verify.
I am so happy to hear that many of you have gone on to have an even better life. Thank you again.
I have to say, the night this happened, we were all drunk. She was only 18 and was visiting us. We were in our late twenties. We were actually giving alcohol to my underage sister. I have felt horrible about this for years.
When I saw an IM between the two of them that referred to that night and what they had done, I almost died.
My husband is a SA, given. In the past 10 years he has been very addicted to porn, has had many, many online encounters that were beyond disgusting and vile, including a 9 year online A, and the three As that I know of.
I don't know what to do about my sister though. She seems to not know that I know what happened and she doesn't live in the same town, so I don't see her often. We do have a family wedding in July though. How much would it suck if I confronted her then? Do I need to take responsibility for allowing her to get drunk? I think I do.
What to do?
sorry you had to find us here at SI, but welcome
my ever changing story is in my profile
my sis and H deny an A. My sis would tell me early on that my H only made an advance at her. She would refuse to say how he hit on her though.
In the meantime, my h told me how he came onto her. Recently I had a discussion with my sister and her story doesn't match with my H's.
soooo, my take on it is that my H and sis did have a brief affair and that she broke it off. My H wouldn't quit bothering her, so she moved out of my parents' home at the time. (She was 29 years old then)
My sister is not my friend. She refused to tell me anything until recently. And then she had the balls to tell me she wouldn't have had sex with my h anyway because he isn't her type.
Anywhoo, your sis nows what she did and after all these years, thinks nothing of it. She and your h have sided together and kept it from you for 20 years. She isn't your friend!
Who put the IM out there? Did your WH IM her first? How much contact have they had over the years? They may have hooked up more than once.
this has me wondering....did he IM her putting out feelers in hopes of hooking up with her at the wedding?
Did your sister scold him in the IM an tell him she's not interested, it was a horrible thing that she did, that he's M to you and that if he contacted her again she would *out* him, not to contact her ever again
Anything short of that, and she probably would still hook up with him. Her words in the IM, what she didn't say will tell as much as what she did say.
Unless she cut him to the quick, she left things open for a future connection. If that's the case, then it doesn't matter that she was a drunk 18 year old when it happened years ago.
Today, she's a 38 year old at least considering it if she didn't put him in his place. I hope she let him have it. But she needed to tell you.
your family probably knows all about your H's antics (sans sis as OW) and hasn't said anything to you. Don't be surprised if you find that's the case.
My family is very supportive of wayward behaviors. My own sis has a kid by a man who was married at the time she got pregnant.
My mom was gaga that my sister had finally gotten pregnant because my sister "had wanted a baby for so many years".
It's very painful when it's family. It splits you in half. You not only lose your spouse, but your family as well.
For me, I'm going to go with my gut feelings. When I get the $ together my H will be polygraphed. He says he'll take one. If he passes, then it's one time that my instinct would be wrong. I have a feeling though that it's not.
Take care of yourself and focus on you. Talk to you soon.
I don't remember who started the IM, but I still know how to get to it. My H was looking for whatever he could online, and it seemed as if he was doing some major fishing with her. More than once. How stupid am I?
He has seen her many times over the years. She's married with three kids! At one point, she got angry with me and told me I needed to tell my H to leave her alone. I thought he was just flirting with her and she was tired of it! But believe me, I told him to lay off the inappropriate behavior. I had no idea it went this far! DUH!
When they IMd she actually said she wouldn't have done it if she hadn't been drunk, but then she said "okay, yes I would have." Ugh. And yes, they were both drinking when they were IMing. That's a pattern with my WH. Don't get me started.
She also said she wondered what would happen if anyone ever found out, asked him if he had ever been with anyone else. He joked that he had been with my other sister! Can't get over wondering if that one is true, though he vehemently denies it.
And for the clincher, she confided in him that she had been having an A with someone she worked with for two years! Arghhhh! I love her children and her husband!!
This sucks so much!
get the email and make a copies of it
that way you have it handy if you decide to expose
if your h told her he was with your other sister, believe it
he has consistently lied to you and kept secrets with her
her BS deserves to know what she's like
Are you considering staying with your H?
You have so much you're up against
Also, still trying to figure out how I'm going to tell her BS that she was and maybe still is cheating on him. I think he needs to know, but I am fearful of breaking up their family and my BIL will be so devastated. He has put up with a hella lot from her over the years...believe me!
I did what you suggested and copied the whole IM file, emailed it to my own private email, so I'll have it if I need it.
I was reading back to some other posts and people were talking about how quiet it is on this thread. Maybe that's because of people like me:
Spouse of SA: check
LTA: at least one
WS Works with OW: uh huh
Online S: massive quantities
ONS: it's true
Passive agressive: I have to say yes
Double Betrayal:MY SISTER
Dealing with Depression: As best I can
NPD: I'm thinking that's true too
Fuck my life
We got together with them in late Feb at their house and I overhead a bit of a conversation between the 2 of them that felt weird, but I brushed it off again. Then in March I spent 8 hours alone with OW driving to rent a vacation home for our 2 families. Then we all hung out together that night. Again, I felt a weird vibe but brushed it off. End of March she invites us over and this time there is no denying something is up. So I start snooping and find a FB chat H left open on is iPhone -- thinking of you, sweetheart, looking forward to morning email. It was enough for me to bring it to OW's BH (who was actually my friend long before he married her). Together we gather evidence, he more than I since my WH was having his contact with OW at work while she is a SAHM doing everything on home computer and phone.
We both confront. My WH is somewhat open and seems remorseful, but sets up a private email account to contact her a week later. He says for "closure." We do MC and he seems very open. I'm still skeptical. I finally get him talking and he starts answering my questions. It seem that this was an EA that had not progressed to a PA yet. It was a lot of finding each other attractive, if only they weren't married, etc. I'm 99% sure there was no physical contact since it's highly unlikely they ever got together besides our get togethers. WH is very ashamed, doing everything right, etc. My gut is telling me I have the truth, but I still have seeds of doubt.
I really hate her and I am pissed that I have to deal with my feelings about my "friend" as well as my WH. Infidelity sucks. Double betrayal double sucks.
Your story is similar to mine but it did graduate to a PA and STBXH moved out. Her BH knew about it for months before I did but didn't tell me because he was trying to reconcile with OW and thought if he told me, she would leave. She wasn't playing along apparently. After I found out through other means, I talked to her BH and learned more information.
I can't believe the number of times we talked about our relationships to our spouses, even our sex lives. I thought she just needed me to be a friend but she was fishing for information. She and her STBXH were motorcycling buddies of ours. We had them over for dinners and movies. Strangely, my WH always insisted I invite her to stay at my house and go shopping or to a movie or something to "cheer her up". Stupidly, I did. WH must have thought it was pretty funny watching us together and interracting with both of us at the same time. She was probably gleeful that they were pulling one over on me.
I hate her worse than I hate anyone. She doesn't exist to me right now. If STBXWH mentions her (and lately he's been talking like she isn't in his life anymore) I completely ignore it like it was never said. Any mention of her in an email is never addressed.
I have made sure my feelings about her are clear to all our friends and aquaintences and she is now friendless. Oh...she recently moved up here to her cabin to be with STBXH but he's sinced moved somewhere else. Heard a few "bunny boiler" type rumors about her lately.
I'm still getting divorced. They may get back together. If so, NC with either of them ever. Support payments are being sent EFT to my bank and I am moving away.
I actually talked to OW a few times since d-day. We exchanged a few emails started by her lame apology email. I called her on the phone at the encouragement of her BH. I really called b/c I wanted info about my WH, but she thought it was to hear her side and all she did was cry and say she was sorry and tell me half-assed excuses. I could see through every one of her lies b/c I was her friend and knew her. Her BS is in denial about what she is like. He told me that she really was my friend and all I could do was laugh because that is so far from the truth. She stopped being my friend when she started coveting my husband. And prior to that I believe she was coveting my life. And I just hate her. And I hate that I ever thought she was my friend and ever shared anything with her.
Wow. I really am still so bitter LOL. Her and her BS and so very concerned with who I have told. I've had several phone calls from him asking who of our mutual friends know. This actually makes me feel so powerful over her b/c I know and she knows that I can make her life quite uncomfortable at any minute. They are so much about appearances.
Being one here is as good as, if not better than, MC. I feel so much better being able to freely share and not be judged and to have people really understand where I am coming from!
I hate the OW too. I can't seem to stop being paranoid that she's going to show back up (thank God she moved far away during the A). She still has family in the area and last news (thru coworkers of my H) she and her BH should be coming to town soon... probably to talk to the real estate agent who's renting their apartment (hey, maybe they're going to SELL IT!).
I managed to get myself into her email loop w/o her knowing it, and I can't stop keeping tabs on her-- where she's going (especially to know when she'll be back here and if she takes any "business" trips that are coordinated with my FWH's).
The obsession is unhealthy but it's like I'm doing it to protect my M. I know that is weird thinking.
I hate her soooooo much. she did everything your OW did-- played MC on us, would call me up to see what I knew about the A (I was stupidly suspicious for a long time but I never thought they'd go PA, really, how naïve of me !), she was just treacherous to a degree that I couldn't possible trust her being anywhere near FWH again.
H is pissed at me today because he wanted us to go somewhere with a colleague who doesn't know about the A (but who is OW's BH's boss). In the past, this guy has asked FWH what was up with OW, if FWH had any news, etc. I asked FWH, "What do I say to him if he asks me this? Should I tell him the truth?" The idea that I would out the A even though it's over really pissed him off.
He's still protecting her.
Will it ever end?
[This message edited by jolene at 2:30 AM, June 22nd (Monday)]
We exchanged a few emails started by her lame apology email.
OW sent me a card and letter. I poured lighter fluid on it and set it on fire. I have no ideal what it said. I am sure it was telling me that my WH didnt love me and loved her and he only used me all these years...blah blah blah.
I think about her daily. Mostly ways to hurt her. I think about just showing up at her house. I still have a key, I could let myself right in. I wonder is she would stroke out if she seen me just walk right in!! I wrote her a letter making sure she knows I havent forgotten about her. I havnt mailed it yet. I dont want to be that kind of person, but thats what I have become. That is what she has made me.
Thank you in advance for your help!
I haven't responded, because I don't know what to say. I want to say, please don't mention her to me anymore, but would that be too weird?
Does this person know about the A? If so, respond and simply say that hearing about OW still hurts you. No further explanations needed. Of course you want to be diplomatic if you wish to retain this person as a friend. If so, then perhaps respond to any comments made before the mention of OW, tell her about your family, and then add a closing paragraph simply stating that you have NC with OW because of the pain and destruction she has caused. Then maybe a statement like "I have no desire to hear about that woman or her family." If possible refer to OW as "that woman", if you can get the message across without explicitly using her name.
Thank you so much for the suggestion, I think I will do that. I will write what you said, and she what happens. It will probably keep me more shunned. OH, well, I don't have anything to loose!
Yes, I would agree with e-mailing her back and just stating the obvious...
...that this betrayal has severly affected you, that you feel a little like an outcast in the family now because nobody has offered you support, and that in the future, you would appreciate not being involved in conversations including the OW.
I think you have to be real clear and up front about the "elephant in the room" with your family (or H's family). If not, and if you never let them know what bothers you, they will continue on as if nothing has happened (which is a pretty common coping mechanism for extended families dealing with double betrayals, as I've come to learn).
I haven't been on here in awhile, but I have the same situation. H had an A with my sister. Sucks!