How did you handle mutual friends of the OW/OM that continued their friendship with the OW/OM after the affair was discovered.
This is a funny question to me, as OW/xBFF was friends with all of MY friends... At the time, I considered them mutual, but they all threw her to the garbage can along with me when this came out. I never realized it was just my friends "putting up with her" for the sake of me. I had a lot of people tell me they wanted to tell me she wasn't a good person and they could tell she was a snake, but knew I wouldn't listen (and I wouldn't have).
We had one friend that she had introduced me to way back in high school that took her "side" if you will, and that is ok with me.
I had never had many close female friendships. The friendship with my coworker's wife (we'll call her Juliet) was unusual and I cherished it. We became like family over the 3 years leading up to the affair. Her husband, my husband, her, and myself all spent time together often, and our circles of friends bonded tightly. She is a nurse, a spiritual person, and she professed to care deeply about me. I trusted her completely.
And then just slightly over 2 years since Juliet stood beside me at my wedding, I found out that she and my husband had a year long emotional and 6 month physical affair. Each Wednesday they would "take the dogs to the park" while her husband and I were at work, and then meet us for dinner that evening. Hardly a day goes by that I don't ask myself how they lived with their secret, looking into my naive face a couple hours (maybe less?) later.
The loss I feel is enormous. She is remorseful and apologetic. She had "harm none" tattooed on her inner arm after I found out, so she'd never again forget this principle. But she has moved on with her life as I suppose one must, and it is hard to hold myself together when we encounter one another as we often do - as a result of mutual friends (who do not know) or work (her husband and I still work 3 desks apart). She is happy. They've adopted a baby. She's in amazing physical shape. She looks gorgeous and content whenever I see her. She hugs me tightly and smiles tentatively when we see eachother, and panic crashes down on me. I quickly complement her jacket or her hair and try to crawl away. Sometimes unaware friends "let us sit next to eachother" at dinners or movies and I feel trapped. Juliet is loved and admired by our friends, even the few who know what happened for the most part. And I miss my friend. I miss trusting.
Now when I'm in crowds I am plagued by a buzzing anxiety that anyone, absolutely anyone could be my enemy. The world is a very different place after a double betrayal.
So sorry that you are going through this. When was your D Day? How did you find out about the A? Is your H remorseful and NC with "Juliet".
Personally I do not know how you can still have this person in your life. My FWH had LTAs with the wives of two couples we were close friends with. Like you I have had few close female friendships, but I considered one of these women to be probably the closest friend I had had in a long time. We saw each other daily, our kids lived in each others houses, we just seemed to have so much in common. Our husbands got along great. In fact her H was probably my H's best friend. When a couple of years later she started to not want to hang out as much and would leave me out of get togethers I was hurt and saddened but never asked her about it as that's just the way I am. I've always felt on the outside of female social groups, and tend to be shy, so I just backed away and let things be. It's obvious to me now why she dropped me, the A was over and she was probably feeling guilty.
My D Day was 5 months ago. The As with this first friend was over about 8 years ago and with the second 1 year ago. (there were plenty of other As with other people going on right upto D Day). The first friend moved to a different part of town and has split from her H (he knows nothing about the A with my H). We still see each other sporadically (prior to D Dat). She always bounces right up to me super friendly. I haven't seen her since I found out. Personally I don't care if I ever see her again. I hate the fact that she pretended to be my friend while sleeping with my H.
The other "friend " knows I know. I have not confronted her. I feel NC is better. She is also divorced from her H and in a new relationship. Her H didn't know about the A until my WHs latest OW's BH emailed him and told him.
FWIW I think it will be very hard for you to heal while still having this woman in your life. Just catching sight of one of my H's OW makes my legs go all shaky and makes me feel panicky. Don't complement her when you see her. Any friends who still "love and admire" her who know what she did are not true friends. She had an affair with your husband. You do not have to still be her friend no matter how sorry she is now. It's not about making her feel better about what she's done and how she totally disrespected your friendship and your marriage. You need to put yourself first and take care of you. Are you going to any sort of counseling?
I'm rambling for which I'm sorry. Just know you are not alone in this. There are lots of great people here who will offer you good advice and understanding.
"Hardly a day goes by that i don't ask myself how they lived with their secret.. looking into my naive face.."
..this part deeply saddens me so often as her A with bf lasted almost 2 decades!
..your whole post is heartfelt pain.. how you manage to still embrace this woman speaks volumes about your strength, resolve and spirit.. your depth and heart.
..if there is to be a bridging of the gap in this 'friendship' down the road, (as you said, you miss this former friend and miss trusting..) you have the power and can demonstrate the self-confidence needed to replace those jittery knees and feeling trapped, with a rock-solid posture and positive attitude when you find yourself in her company..
..reality may be that she, in fact, is the one feeling nervous and embarrassed and trapped..
..and so she should!!!
..you can take you own sweet time in deciding if there is 'any' friendship to be salvaged with this woman..
..you must be able to trust that she and your H have nothing to re-kindle..
..my hat's off to you if you can fully forgive and embrace this woman. WOW!
I understand well your rage and confusion. Your pain and despair.
I hardly ever log on the site anymore. Though it helped me immesely when I first discovered it, I quickly found there really was no place for me. We never had a false reconciliation, or a true one for that matter. He broke it off with me and is with her now. No confrontations, explanations - apology. Nothing. From either of them.
The pain is no longer - and thank God hasn't been for quite some time - anywhere near the intensity it was originally. But if someone were to ask me, I would tell them I STILL feel as though I'm clawing my way out of the wreckage. I'm so different now and the changes aren't positive ones.
Be patient with yourselves and don't attempt to discern or apply any kind of deadline to your working through this. It does and WILL go at its own pace.
How could they do it?
They are broken. Broken people. The components that make up an emotionally mature and healthy person with appropriate boundaries, a deep well-spring of honesty, integrity, loyalty and compassion - all running on a CONSISTENT basis are
So sorry that you have had to suffer through this too..
I'm sorry you have to come to this thread. My advice to you is that whilst you are mourning the loss of the friendship as you knew it, you must now come to terms that it has now changed for ever thanks to the behaviour of your "friend" and your H. She may well be feeling very guilty about what she has done however I suspect that her feelings of guilt will be minor to the way in which she has made you feel. That is obvious by the way you describe your feelings when you encounter her. Is this healthy for you however much you want to forgive? I would say, NO.
She may have regarded you as a friend but her friendship did not extend to consideration for your feelings, that is what you have to remember. Please don't compliment her either. She has not earnt the right for you to be so magnanimous and I doubt if she will actually truly appreciate the gift you are giving her by trying to salvage something of this friendship. She may well see that she could still walk all over you if she chooses. The same with your H. I don't think this is sending the right message to him either. Yes, we all strive to forgive but you are not chopped liver either. What are these two idiots doing to make sure that you feel OK moving forward?? That is what I would like to know.
As you describe, both she and your H have changed the way you now view the world. I'm sorry but she would be long gone on my list of friends but I am not walking in your shoes.
Myheart, Thell, Notmetoo, Somanyyears and all who post here. Peace to us all in 2012.
ETA: In my opinion I believe it is absolutely essential to confront the OP in the case of a double betrayal, even if it is by way of a letter. I seriously do not think that the BS can have closure otherwise. As long as you realise that you may not get a response or that you may get a whole lot of pathetic excuses. IMHO it is cathartic to get it down even on paper.
[This message edited by Ellejay at 8:37 PM, January 5th (Thursday)]
Poofed off of Facebook a few days ago. Buh-bye.
I know she was already being investigated for some major sh*t she got wrapped up in with school and the military....maybe it finally caught up to her. One can hope, right?
Hope the karma bus comes this way soon!
The Karma Bus usually arrives when we are busy not looking out for it. It is true that every action has a positive and negative reaction. You need do nothing now but live your life with purpose. Nothing pisses off the people who have hurt you more than seeing you getting on with your life in a happy and productive way, even on a sub-conscious level. I have spent so much time over the past 12 months imagining various bad things happening to the people who have hurt me so dreadfully. I suspect that those people haven't given so much as a 100th of the same amount of time feeling bad about what they have done to me. I posted this on another thread but it may be helpful here.
Remember always that you are just a visitor here, a traveler passing through. your stay is but short and the moment of your departure unknown.
None can live without toil and a craft that provides your needs is a blessing indeed. But if you toil without rest, fatigue and wearness will overtake you, and you will denied the joy that comes from labour's end.
Speak quietly and kindly and be not forward with either opinions or advice. If you talk much, this will make you deaf to what others say, and you should know that there are few so wise that they cannot learn from others.
Be near when help is needed, but far when praise and thanks are being offered.
Take small account of might, wealth and fame, for they soon pass and are forgotten. Instead, nurture love within you and and strive to be a friend to all. Truly, compassion is a balm for many wounds.
Treasure silence when you find it, and while being mindful of your duties, set time aside, to be alone with yourself.
Cast off pretense and self-deception and see yourself as you really are.
Despite all appearances, no one is really evil. They are led astray by ignorance. If you ponder this truth always you will offer more light, rather then blame and condemnation.
You, no less than all beings have Buddha Nature within. Your essential Mind is pure. Therefore, when defilements cause you to stumble and fall, let not remose nor dark foreboding cast you down. Be of good cheer and with this understanding, summon strength and walk on.
Faith is like a lamp and wisdom makes the flame burn bright. Carry this lamp always and in good time the darkness will yield and you will abide in the Light.
Don't let the bastards get you down.
Great posting. The only thing I disagree with is:
"Despite all appearances, no one is really evil."
I think there are truly evil people in this world, particularly those who torture and abuse women and children. I consider myself fortunate to be dealing with "minor " problems in my life compared to what many women suffer through daily just by the misfortune of where they were born.
Going back to a previous post, do you really think its a good idea to confront all OP who have been in involved in a double betrayal? I'm not disagreeing with you, just asking the question. I have grappled with this. I haven't confronted either of the two main OP or a third who also fits this category. Two of the three don't know I know and the As we're over probably 8-10 years ago. I imagine confronting them but haven't done anything about it. I think you may be right about needing to do it to get closure, but I'm almost scared to I case they come back at me with details I don't want to hear. (He couldn't get enough of me, begged me to run away with him, thought you were x,y and z.....) I'm frightened that I would be opening myself up to more pain and that maybe I should just let sleeping dogs lie, so to speak.
Is there anyone in the position of seeing the other couple R wonderfully while you're going through hell? The OW was a married friend of mine and I was livid when I found out the extent of effort into reestablishing contact with WH after DDay. When I spoke to her own BH about it his response was "I don't care, I love her and I'll do whatever it takes to make it work". The next day they promptly went to my commander and had a no contact order placed on me, preventing me from communicating with them in any way shape or form. excuse me but I didn't realize that I was the problem here.
Anyway, she has basically denied any responsibility and thrown my WH under the bus. This works in my favor I suppose because he hates her for doing so but in the end they're working it out and we aren't. This irritates me beyond belief, I hate her and want her to be miserable and it causes my husband to resent me for not letting it go. Did anyone else go through this? Did you ever get to see that big ol' karma bus come around?
yes, i sure as hell did..
As hard as it may be I would try and put the OW and her BS and how their relationship is going out of your mind. Concentrate on yourself and your M. You have no idea what stories/lies your Xfriend is telling her BS about what went on. You can be sure she's twisting it to make herself look better.
My WH's last OW (this one wasnt a friend but several previous ones were), convinced her BS that she was a victim and my WH was a predator. This is inspite of the fact they met on Ashley Madison and she had used the website before. I have no idea if they are R nor do I care. I think it is normal to want the OW to suffer but I have read many posts here that liken wishing bad things on the OP to drinking poison yourself and expecting the OP to die.
Hopefully your WH is remorseful and you can work on healing together.
I too, struggle with the fact that OW/xBFF got off basically scott free while I have been suffering in hell for 19 months.
But then I remember how pathetic she really is and that is karma (I guess), or at least I tell myself this.
She is 32, has a 12 yr old daughter.. They have never moved out from her parents house. She has consistantly had less than stellar jobs, not much ambition, doesn't pay her own bills, and cannot keep a man... therefore, she sleeps with unavailable men because she is a slut.
I have to keep telling myself this because last week I found out she is on the Dean's list at the school that I helped her enroll in and put in a good word for her since I was working there and had been through the program myself. My only hope is that she is not smart enough to actually make it all the way through this program or take the state boards and actually pass.
I get an urge to send her an email every now and then telling her how horrible life still is for me, and how she is so pathetic. But I don't know if she would actually feel guilty or if she would feel good about that. She absolutely hated me while I loved her unconditionally. I cannot understand her jealous hate for me, since I have never had that, but I can certainly understand an intense hatred for her, because that is what I have. And I do not like having it because it keeps me in bondage with her.
In my case the BS of OW1 (exBFF and nextdoor neighbour) are still living in the same house but desperately trying to sell their home. I'm sure it must be living hell being in such limbo but that is their choice. If I could see that they were prancing around as a happily reconciled couple, yes it would make me mad, even though for their children's sake I would not want to see them split.
This OW has created no end of problems for my stbxh, she is out for revenge big time. I confronted her the day after D-Day, I confronted OW2 by letter also, although I have not had a face to face encounter with OW2 as yet but it is going to happen sooner or later seeing as my stbxh has now taken up with her.
Whilst it is no longer my concern what these people do in regards to salvaging their own relationships, I do think it is necessary IMHO at least to let them know how much they have devastated yours. I don't mean that you need to go banging on their door with flaming torch in hand and let loose with a violent physical or verbal tirade but I absolutely feel it is necessary to let these people know what their actions have created. Even if you write it down, never actually send it to them just set a match to the paper, I think it needs to be put out there into the universe somehow. This is not just a minor injury, they haven't just failed to return a casserole dish - they have destroyed your family, your relationship, your marriage, your self-esteem, your sense of security, your trust in basic friendship and the fabric of your community. Don't become a stalker or end up with a court order either. Just make sure that they receive the message loud and clear, that you regard their behaviour as absolutely abhorrent and that you now regard them as totally beneath you. Then just walk away. Get on with your life. Leave them to fester in their own chaos.
Confronting these people is not about making them suffer, it is about confirming to yourself that you are a person of integrity who has respect for themselves
and you are standing up for YOU and allowing yourself to move forward in the knowledge that you are far greater in character than they will ever be.
This fact may be completely lost on them depending on how far into their Sociopathic behaviour they actually are but that's OK.
If someone hurt your child, or someone dear to you, would you just walk away and say nothing? I think not.
Once you have said your piece, then just release them back to the universe which will take care of them in time.
Obviously, all this is up to the individual and their unique circumstances. Do whatever feels right for you and allows you to move forward.
Peace to all who find themselves in this horrific situation.
Love EJ xxxx
In my case OW was a very close friend. Our kids still go to the same school and we used to be part of a group of friends together. I didn't want people to know, but she told a lot of our mutual girl friends because she needed support when her heart was broken...
Except for one woman, who stopped talking to her, and is now my new BFF, ALL WOMEN continued their relationship with her, giving her support etc. I couldn't talk to these women anymore, so now I'm the one that's out. This is so incredibly painful.
OW FOO is one of the wealthiest families in the US. Scratch that, the world. I am not exaggerating. There is a field of yes-sayers around these people. You can't even imagine it until you've experienced it. Even I, I have to admit, was very flattered when she chose me to be her close friend but at least I didn't think I was hurting anyone while doing so. So I understand all these other women who are so flattered when she turns to them for support of her broken heart.
But when I'm feeling down I remind myself that my FWH could have had it all on a silver platter, and he chose me instead. That helps a little.
I guess it was asked before, but has anyone else experienced people continuing their friendships with OW like that?
Sorry you are here. My WH had LTAs with the wives of two couples we were very close to. The first A was over about 8 years ago and the second ended a year ago. I have only told one friend about what happened and she was not a friend of either of these women so I am not in your position that way. It is hard running into people who ask me if I have seen **** or #### recently and I have to act like nothing is wrong.
I feel for you that your supposed friends are supporting the lying cheating OW. Unfortunately I find alot of people are superficial and easily impressed by money and appearances. Take heart that your WS chose you and that he dumped OW . All her money and possessions couldn't buy her love.