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I Can Relate Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Cyber/Online Cheating
Fallen
♀ Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, April 10th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I get that... but changing that kind of thinking is a process. As long as strike is still making progress, even if it's in tiny steps, it's still progress.

Impatience was one of my biggest enemies- and I still fight it. It's hard to be patient when you want so much to be healthy. I think you're doing remarkably well.


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23475 | Registered: May 2004
ladyvorkosigan
♀ Member
Member # 8283
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, April 10th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Every time I smell depression or frustration on my husband, I get anxious, too, because I know what sends him off into fantasy land. He has not reached out for the dangerous fix since D-day #2, but I still feel like I have to maintain vigilance. The vigilance isn't really over *him*. I know I can't affect what he does. The vigilance is over *me*, lest I look away for a second and not notice what he's doing. I'm on threatdown level "Bears" so in case the Bears attack, at least I won't look like an idiot that wasn't expecting them.


It nagged him, in particular, that none of the girls hed known so far had given him a sense of unalloyed triumph.

Posts: 14221 | Registered: Sep 2005 | From: Florida
lostmimi
♀ Member
Member # 12372
Default  Posted: 10:14 AM, April 10th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I fight my impatience with this very hard. It's rough just hanging out there on a limb, holding on but knowing at any minute if he wanted to he could just cut that branch. I'm afraid of heights LOL

I just want my marriage back.


Me-FBS Him-FWH (strike2)
2 kids, 4 and 1yr
online EA
d-day #1 10/05 d-day #2 9/06 d-day #3 12/07 (more info)(same OW)
in R

"True commitment begins when we reach the point of not knowing how we can possibly go on, and decide to do it


Posts: 2930 | Registered: Oct 2006
Fallen
♀ Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, April 10th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sent you a PM, lostmimi


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23475 | Registered: May 2004
unarmbears
♀ Member
Member # 7480
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, April 12th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Every time I smell depression or frustration on my husband, I get anxious, too, because I know what sends him off into fantasy land.

Wow, we just went through this again. My FWH first went online when he was unemployed and depressed. That was five years ago. He was employed but still "unhappy" three years ago when he went online again.

Last Fall he was unemployed again, slightly depressed and I was on needles and pins expecting a relapse into his online escape, but it didn't happen. He did things very differently this time.

FWH said that he wasn't even tempted since it isn't an escape anymore. Online affairs create more drama than he really wants in his life.

It took the circumstances being similar, but the actions being different for me to finally "get" that he was done with his former online life/escape.

One thing that has helped a lot with him being online is ongoing discussion on the topic of what he will do, how he will respond if any of those women come fishing. He knows what "fishing" is now, and he and I are in agreement that he will be open about any contact he receives, he will not contact any of those OW himself, and he will be short and not so sweet to those who do contact.

For 23 years he was faithful, so I am fairly certain he knows what that entails. I also know his behavior when things get out of hand, and he is a terrible actor.

As Fallen says, tiny steps is still progress!


FBS-Me, 60
FWH-Him, 55
2 Sons 25 and 30
2 Daughters 28, 24 And 3 darling grandchildren!
"Love is an impulsive act, it's free. It's the story we tell about it afterward that's our poverty." Byron Katie

Posts: 4886 | Registered: Jun 2005 | From: From where the trees lean east...
kwash
Member
Member # 13957
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, April 12th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for this topic. My FWBF's infidelity began online with browsing personals and watching porn or vice versa (it's that age old question...which came first the personals or the porn?!). He posted his own profile on some personal sites, though says he only answered one ad. He and the OW met for dinner once and he says nothing physical happened (like a chaste first date and he never called her again). He says. I'm not sure I believe that, but even when I imagine worse, I think I'd still be trying R, so it doesn't really matter if there was more.

It was (is?) a huge struggle for me to get him to understand that even if nothing more happened, what DID happen was enough!!! I even have to question myself sometimes when I am feeling devastated by this and ask "was what he did really that bad?". I know the answer is yes, but I think the question itself underscores the weirdness of this type of infidelity.

Inchoate - Thank you so much for your post. It sounds like you truly 'get it'. We are in MC and my FWBF is starting to realize how hurtful his actions were. He now says his definition of infidelity was far too narrow and he understands now that "even what he did" qualifies. He still minimizes sometimes ("all I did was type things", "I ONLY cheated with my mind and fingers") and it makes me very sad when he does because I figure he just doesn't get it. Time will tell.


Posts: 2175 | Registered: Mar 2007
Nobodys Angel
♀ New Member
Member # 14237
Default  Posted: 8:09 AM, April 18th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I thought I was alone with this cyber cheating. Reading this forum has opened my eyes..I'm not alone, not going crazy. Which is what my H wants me to believe. It started over a year ago, I found out by accident when the computer wanted to to something and H was away. Boy did I get a gutfull. I could not beleive what I was reading.
Thats not the worst, H said it was nothing that it went to far and that he loves me. A year later guess what it still continues dispite my ojbections, careful pointing out of things, oh yea I do go crazy up one side of him and down the other. I hurt so bad. I digress bottom line it still continues...she phones my house I answer all the time. she thinks nothing of it, call his cell phone H calls her.
Lately I have been calm and collected we have a family wedding to attend at the end of the month. After that I have to end this and kick him out. I love him to death but no more. He will not go to councilling, articles I printed of this site he wont read I guess that pretty much tells me what I am doing is right. Thank you all for just being hear reading everything brings home to me that I really an not alone.
One question where do you find out about a free keylogger and how does it work.

Posts: 19 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Toronto
unarmbears
♀ Member
Member # 7480
Default  Posted: 11:50 PM, April 20th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome all to our little corner of the infidelity maze!

You were not, nor are you, crazy for feeling like this is infidelity. It is!

It really has a bizarre quality, since most online affairs happen in your home, with the betrayed close by.

I think it has a real insidious nature to it, because the BS often minimizes the whole thing because it is "only online."
But it hurts all the same!



FBS-Me, 60
FWH-Him, 55
2 Sons 25 and 30
2 Daughters 28, 24 And 3 darling grandchildren!
"Love is an impulsive act, it's free. It's the story we tell about it afterward that's our poverty." Byron Katie

Posts: 4886 | Registered: Jun 2005 | From: From where the trees lean east...
Fallen
♀ Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, April 21st (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Unarm, I agree- a lot of the guilt I felt was due to the fact that I was chatting with OP with my husband sitting right next to me.

It's certainly easier to carry out an EA that way. That kind of daily talking allowed me to believe that I had a special connection to the OP. In retrospect, it's so easy to see how a WS/OP can manipulate the chat to appear in the best possible light.

Bleh.


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23475 | Registered: May 2004
movingforward777
♀ Member
Member # 6850
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, April 21st (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((NoBody's Angel))...i know just what you mean when you say you got a "gutfull"...i found an email my STBXH had sent to someone talking about the woman he was having an online (and I found out later making phone calls to) affair with....it was like someone hit me in the stomach...i knew by what he was saying in the email that it wasn't me he was talking about...we had been together 20 yrs (18 married) with two wonderful kids (ages 14/16)...it was like someone tore me apart to know that he was involved with someone else...i printed out the email and confronted him with it...needless to say, he couldn't deny it any more...
I had accused him once before, but he told me i was wrong, there was nothing going on...just talking to people as he played games on Pogo.com....well he left, and two weeks later drove to see her in Oklahoma...spent a week with her, and when he came home, she went back to her husband...by the time he got home..i had packed him up and moved him out..he had made his choice and it wasn't me...silly man...he threw it all away for what?....he has continued to be involved with women from as far away as the Netherlands (we live in Canada)...that one lives with her husband, but came to spend two weeks with him...go figure...the computer can be a wonderful thing, but can be very dangerous too because it can open up doors that some people may never open without it....sad isn't it.....


You can't reach for anything new if your hands are still full of yesterday's junk.......Louise Smith

Posts: 4775 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: Ontario
unarmbears
♀ Member
Member # 7480
Default  Posted: 10:56 AM, April 21st (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think one of the most ludicrous aspects of the whole online thing is that my husband, unshowered, unshaved, in sweats and a robe was able to attract so many women online.

He often said "It was easy...they all talked to me..." and I would look at him and think "If only they knew what you looked like while wooing them in those IM boxes.." I also realize that there were a lot of women still in robes and sweats and hair uncombed utilizing the same method to feed their egos.

I did tell him one time that he took the lazy man's way of cheating. I might have had more respect for him at the time if he had dressed up, cleaned up and gone out and worked on wooing someone IRL. He would have had to put some effort into it.

Now he is working ... very hard...to woo me.

I guess that is what adds to the surreal aspect of the online thing...that "intimacy" that isn't really intimate, person to person, but screen to screen.


FBS-Me, 60
FWH-Him, 55
2 Sons 25 and 30
2 Daughters 28, 24 And 3 darling grandchildren!
"Love is an impulsive act, it's free. It's the story we tell about it afterward that's our poverty." Byron Katie

Posts: 4886 | Registered: Jun 2005 | From: From where the trees lean east...
Fallen
♀ Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 8:42 PM, April 21st (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's true, that it's not really intimate, but being behind a keyboard unseen can also almost give you permission to say things you might never say to someone in person. It builds intimacy, but a very unhealthy intimacy. It's false.


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23475 | Registered: May 2004
unarmbears
♀ Member
Member # 7480
Default  Posted: 10:21 PM, April 21st (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree on the intimacy part Fallen.

The anonimity adds a "safety" factor regarding what a person shares about him or herself. It did add this level of "saying it all" that face to face would not allow for my husband.

I guess for me, it was the fact that my husband has a learning disability that makes reading and writing difficult for him, and then he got so proficient just to screw around on me. Yep that pissed me off. But I've made it through that part of healing. It also helps that he reads what I write now, instead of glancing and putting aside.


FBS-Me, 60
FWH-Him, 55
2 Sons 25 and 30
2 Daughters 28, 24 And 3 darling grandchildren!
"Love is an impulsive act, it's free. It's the story we tell about it afterward that's our poverty." Byron Katie

Posts: 4886 | Registered: Jun 2005 | From: From where the trees lean east...
decievedone
♀ Member
Member # 14034
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, April 23rd (Monday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH had the Internet Affair as well and even if she was (is) 4000 miles away and I KNOW there was never anything physical between them that means little to me at this point. It was still an Affair. In some ways the IA is worse than the PA because in the IA they share all of their deepest thoughts and feelings with the OP. They have the freedom to say things to them they could or would never say to us.The things he would tell her he was doing to her were always so much more Romantic than anything he ever actually did with me. The whole time he was avoiding any kind of contact with me other than the goodnight kiss or the goodbye kiss when going to work. He did, however, continue to tell me he loved me every morning and every night and even every time we talked on the phone. That would be the last thing he said to me. I told him that I did not even Know the man he was when he was online.
I come from both sides of these affairs too since my first Husband had the physical affair and now this one has had the emotional internet (cybersex) affair. To me this last is the worse one to get over. I too was right here in the house with him while he talked it up with her.
I caught them after the "affair" part of their chats was about 4-6 months along. He immediately was remorseful and told her they were "BUSTED" so it had to end right NOW. Ofcourse I am left to wonder how long this would have gone on had he not been busted by me. My health is not all that great and he was talking with her about how they WOULD be together one day but it may be a little while. Told her to be patient cause I would not be here forever.
BTW...YES we did both know her as she was a very good friend of MINE once from the internet. She even came to visit me for 2 1/2 weeks about 4 years ago and that is when he actually met her. Since that time she betrayed me very badly on line with some of our other friends and my friendship with her ended at that time. That was over 2 years ago and he began chatting with her about a year later though nothing came of their chats until the last 6 months. I did ask him if he ever felt any guilt when he would sign off with her and then come to kiss me good night and tell me he loved me. He said Yeah he did but he does not know why he did not just stop it. I also asked him if he ever noticed his wedding ring while tping that shit to her and he actually said no to that. I told him just yesterday that our rings we have now don't mean shit to me cause the vows that came with them have been broken and trashed. We are getting new rings to give one another and we will re say vows to go with them as well. Maybe then it will be a little easier not to feel shame/anger/hurt/betrayed/bitter when I look at either his or my rings.

[This message edited by decievedone at 1:03 PM, April 23rd (Monday)]


BS(Me)-57
WS(Him)-48
D-Day 3/15/07
Together 18 years; Married 17

Posts: 68 | Registered: Mar 2007
Nobodys Angel
♀ New Member
Member # 14237
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, April 24th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Even though H has been confronted with the EA he still lies to me. I have his other private email acct. and got the password I'll monitor this for a bit. He says that the past year and our fighting is not worth the price for having a "friend" as he says and will stop. I asked about the email acct. and he denies it and has from Oct. when I first saw the acct. Does the hurt and feelings of betrayal ever go away?

Posts: 19 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Toronto
wasfooled2
♀ Member
Member # 13783
Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, April 25th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH had the Internet Affair as well and even if she was (is) 4000 miles away and I KNOW there was never anything physical between them that means little to me at this point. It was still an Affair. In some ways the IA is worse than the PA because in the IA they share all of their deepest thoughts and feelings with the OP. They have the freedom to say things to them they could or would never say to us.The things he would tell her he was doing to her were always so much more Romantic than anything he ever actually did with me.

This is the most painful thing for me. It didn't matter where she was or where we are. They had such an intimate connection. I think I would almost rather he had just screwed someone instead of falling in love and sharing so much of himself with someone else.

I don't know if I will ever get over the emotional bond they shared. It just kills me.


(Me) BS-39
(Him) WS-41 (serial cheater)
D-Day #7 2/24/07 (lost count)
Married 15 years; together for 23
Reconciled, or so I thought. Separated & divorcing.

Better off I sparkle on my own ~ Anna Nalick


Posts: 5583 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Chicago Suburbs
Inchoate
♀ Member
Member # 9065
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, April 25th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Keep in mind that even if it seemed romantic, intimate, etc. it was still fake, just like an in-person EA or PA.

It is SO SO SO easy to present yourself as this glamorous, understanding, articulate person online. You've got all the time in the world to come up with the perfect words, there is the appearance of no interruptions (even if hours or days pass between replies), and the other person doesn't know that you're sitting there in your stinky sweats with nose hair sticking out.

Online EAs progress so rapidly and get so extreme because there is absolutely NO intrusion of the real world, to an even greater degree than usual with affairs, which are by definition all about the fantasy.

Online "lovers" are the most two dimensional, manufactured creatures that ever could exist.

I told my BS that one reason I allowed this to happen and didn't recognize the seriousness of what I was doing until far too late was that it was almost like journaling to me, albeit with an audience. If I were desirable, interesting, funny, sexy, etc., this is what I would be like. And all it was, was two people engaged in the construction of their fantasy selves, who were so much more successful in their fantasy lives than they were in their real lives.

The most superficial "pass the salt" exchange between you and your spouse has pounds more reality and intimacy than any of this online bullshit, I assure you.

[This message edited by Inchoate at 9:54 AM, April 25th (Wednesday)]


Former Wayward Ninja, recovered
"The shadows tell us where the light is" (my DD@3)
"Growing up is hard. If it were easy, everyone would do it." (Agliarept)

Posts: 5057 | Registered: Dec 2005
wasfooled2
♀ Member
Member # 13783
Default  Posted: 10:00 AM, April 25th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Inch,

Did you ever deny what you were doing was cheating? Just wondering because it has taken a very long time for my WH to admit that he took it way too far.

Even though he knew it hurt me, he considered his online actions all "harmless flirting" for a long time, until the last person, which turned into a heated, year-long EA.


(Me) BS-39
(Him) WS-41 (serial cheater)
D-Day #7 2/24/07 (lost count)
Married 15 years; together for 23
Reconciled, or so I thought. Separated & divorcing.

Better off I sparkle on my own ~ Anna Nalick


Posts: 5583 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Chicago Suburbs
unarmbears
♀ Member
Member # 7480
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, April 25th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Inchy and Fallen for coming here to help us BS's understand this form of infidelity from a FWS side.

It really does help bring that surreal aspect into some palatable form. It still doesn't "taste" very good, but at least I can look at what you have written and see the fascination and swallow some of the reasoning that goes on behind it.

I am glad the FWS's that have been there are able to be here!


FBS-Me, 60
FWH-Him, 55
2 Sons 25 and 30
2 Daughters 28, 24 And 3 darling grandchildren!
"Love is an impulsive act, it's free. It's the story we tell about it afterward that's our poverty." Byron Katie

Posts: 4886 | Registered: Jun 2005 | From: From where the trees lean east...
Inchoate
♀ Member
Member # 9065
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, April 25th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

unarm, it's the least I can do. :) So many people diminish this kind of betrayal, but anyone who's been there for a cyber-related D-day knows better. And with things like Second Life gaining steam, it's only going to get worse. :( The only comfort I have is that at least I didn't expose anyone to STDs.

wasfooled, I managed a kind of denial, but it wasn't really specific to the online-ness of it all. Nope, I was one of those who'd convinced myself that I was seeking a little comfort to be able to stay in my bad marriage long enough to wait for a better day . I honestly don't see *any* difference between an online EA and any other EA, other than that they can get a lot more sexual without as much increased risk of a PA than an in-person EA. And in that respect, it's even harder to pretend what you're doing isn't cheating. I recognize that when the EA seems asexual it's harder to recognize that it's still a giving away of marital resources, but when it's all about sexual fantasizing and scenario-writing? Puh-lease!

Any denial I'd managed was completely swept away by the look on my BS's face on D-day, though. :(

It doesn't doesn't matter whether it was betrayal by anyone else's standards, anyway. All that matters is that it was by hers.


Former Wayward Ninja, recovered
"The shadows tell us where the light is" (my DD@3)
"Growing up is hard. If it were easy, everyone would do it." (Agliarept)

Posts: 5057 | Registered: Dec 2005
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