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When A WS Leaves For Their OP

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devastated07 posted 12/11/2007 07:06 AM

"He is the captain of his own sinking ship and we have to yell women and children first and save ourselves."

I like this. I'm going to add this to the quote thread on F&G.

isurvived posted 12/11/2007 11:54 AM

Thanks so much devastated and blackbird,

I try hard to tell myself it is not about me but it is so hard to do. I know this sounds mean but I hope he is not happy with her-in fact, I hope he is miserable.

I hope this pain lessens in time-I do know that the scars I have will be there forever. It helps to hear from you guys-thanks so very much.

incredulous posted 12/12/2007 21:35 PM

How many of you never really had the opportunity to talk to WS to try to process the affair? You know -- to ask questions about when, why, how, etc.

I keep looking for answers that will somehow make this make some sense. I go back and forth about whether talking to WH about some of this would help give me closure. At first I thought it would and I sent him some questions by e-mail. He said he'd like to answer them in person with a counselor. I said I hoped we wouldn't have to hire a professional to have one honest discussion about the end of our marriage. By the time he responded and said he'd meet with me, I told him I didn't think he was capable of even hearing and seeing me, so I didn't really think his answers would be helpful. I was really feeling the 180 that day!

Since then, I've been thinking we should have met so I could know a little more to try and help my healing. I'm just afraid it will get my hopes up that he will want to reconcile.

What would you do if you were me? Anybody with similar experiences or feelings? Any advice at all?

burnt_toast posted 12/13/2007 20:11 PM

incredulous... maybe not the answer you want to read, but...

IC helps me to get through the sense of "unfinished business" his departure left me and the whole nonsense of it all.

I am making my way through it, even in the absence of WH... there are answers he won't ever be able to give to me even if I'd ask for them, since he wants to stay as blind as posible when all I want is live with my eyes wide open. And IC helps me with that part.

Closure will come in its time, either from him or from within yourself...

[This message edited by burnt_toast at 8:11 PM, December 13th (Thursday)]

burnt_toast posted 12/14/2007 22:08 PM

...oh, hi ! I forgot to introduce myself to the group.

I'm burnt_toast, 30 yo. Nice to meet you all.

My H got into depression about 8 mo ago, changed jobs and became closer everyday with this new coworker.

They have nothing in common (except work) she has nothing more than me (except novelty) but he's addicted to the way he can look at himself in her eyes. Infatuation, in one word.

I'll spare the crunchy details of my october d-day, they are not relevant anymore on this board.

After 2 months of false R, that was in fact cake-eating, he went straight to her after I went NC. Ten days later he was aking me to D, saying he "couldn't wait and work on our M for years" that he "had to be happy no later than right now".

Others around us always perceived us as the perfect couple. We were friends, we were soulmates, I thought I was safe with him. Hell was I wrong.

He re-wrote the story of our M and turned me into a witch to justify the flow of anger he's vomiting at me. Went from an exceptionnally loving man to someone who could treat me down right shoddily... just in a few weeks.

I have to mourn the M and the man. Sometime, I look at pictures taken just a year ago and he looks so loving and happy. This turnover is hard to accept, hard to undersand.

Here I am, on my own, trying to befriend myself again, with a lot of solitude to do so. Trying to get up from this shocker and get moving... forward... on my own two feet.

blackbird542 posted 12/15/2007 07:41 AM

Incredulous -- I have the same unfinished business that you do. I got him to agree to MC about two weeks out from DDay (I threw him out on DDay and he ran to her). But he would make no promises about NC or anything else so I said forget the MC. Since then I have had very very limited contact with him and no emotional content on his side. We are getting divorced. He is still with her, although he maintains a separate residence. I have not been in the same room with him since DDay and don't want to be. I think you are better off going to IC and moving ahead rather than trying to second guess his feelings/intent/motivation. You cannot trust any answer he gives you, and it will either make you want to reconcile because he is trying to be a good guy or it will hurt you further by telling you all of your "failings." The closure comes from your heart and head, not from his.

burnt_toast posted 12/15/2007 16:12 PM

Being left for the OP is :

Looking for you in every car that's similar to yours ;

Smelling the last pieces of clothing you left behind ;

Getting accustomed to the predominace of silence in my life ;

Crying not only because you left me, but also, and moreover because as I cry, you are in bliss in her arms ;

Going from feeling safe to fearing you because you know too well how to push those buttons ;

Having suddenly a lot of wardrobe space and not finding the resolve to use it ;

Trying to get rid of the idea that someone's waiting at home while I return ;

Still finding myself looking at a beautiful men's shirt in the mall, then realizing it's useless now ;

Having to change the message on the answering machine ;

Being always cold in bed, no matter how dressed and covered ;

Still sleeping on my side of bed and feeling ridiculous about it ;

Buying and cooking way too much food ;

Missing someone to share my days and thoughts with.

queequeg posted 12/15/2007 19:02 PM

I would like to ask BSs on this thread:

Isn't the greater hurt and betrayal the WS's refusal to be remorseful and refusal to try to reconcile than the actual infidelity itself?

incredulous posted 12/15/2007 19:18 PM


Yes, I agree that the greatest pain is from the total abandonment rather than the infidelity. I keep thinking that I know I could forgive infidelity, but this total indifference to my profound pain is so hurtful it's hard to fathom. My whole world view has been turned upside down.

That's why I keep waiting for my WH to "wake up" because then at least the world would make some sense....

...and I would have some say in whether my marriage ends or not...

...and the memories from our entire relationship wouldn't be tainted by his statement that he "was never in love with me"...

I wonder if I would still feel this way if I had had even the slightest opportunity to reconcile..

[This message edited by incredulous at 10:45 PM, December 15th (Saturday)]

ittybittya posted 12/15/2007 20:36 PM

Isn't the greater hurt and betrayal the WS's refusal to be remorseful and refusal to try to reconcile than the actual infidelity itself?

I'm not sure if I would say it's greater but I know that it's taken alot longer for me to get through the audacity of it all. The abandonment of my two little boys is probably what I struggle with more than anything. It's hard as a parent not to take his rejection of them personally.

I still struggle with some issues even now, 2 years post divorce. We can sometimes have civil conversations but it depends on his mood and I rarely like speaking with him, even in regards to the kids. He's kept up with every other weekend....this is suprising alone.

Something that has bothered me lately for some reason is that I know I just haven't been happy with what I'm left with now. How can I resolve enough of this to just be happy with what I've been left with?

burnt_toast posted 12/15/2007 23:17 PM

That's why I keep waiting for my WH to "wake up" because then at least the world would make some sense...

I felt like that too. So were my inlaws, parents, and friends !

The greatest hurt was that not only did he cheat, not only did he leave, but he carlessly dragged me in the mud as much as he could on the way, witout a concern about my feelings.

Shared the details of the A with me. Praised the OW to me. Wasn't even shy to tell me he luuuuuuuved her. Dumped me on Facebook. Told everyone around about "my" issues.

From someone who swore to love and protect you, frome someoune with who you felt safe, it's those repeated kicks in the face while I was down that were the worse.

Dad posted 12/15/2007 23:49 PM

I agree that the greatest pain is the sudden and total rejection without any remorse. You are rendered powerless as you go from loved spouse to something she just wants to get rid of in order to get on with her life with the OM. The alternating cruelty and callousness that goes with it is devastating. Add to that her campaign to make the OM my DD's new father and it is almost too much pain to take.

This sudden change in what we thought of as our loving spouses is why I asked WS's about the fog on the Wayward Side. Once they enter that fog in order to protect their drug euphoria from the A, they become different people.

blackbird542 posted 12/16/2007 07:55 AM

I agree that the greater pain is that the WS doesn't try to reconcile. My grown daughter likens it to the Sex in the City episode that spawned the famous line "He's just not that into you." She wrote to WH that the greatest hurt was that he didn't fight for his family -- meaning not just me but her and her sister. So yes, on top of the cheating and the lies that every betrayed spouse has to deal with, there's this sense of total abandonment to contend with. But then again, in some ways it makes the healing faster, because there is no stringing along.

[This message edited by blackbird542 at 7:56 AM, December 16th (Sunday)]

yewtree posted 12/17/2007 16:44 PM

It's so painful to be here. I read these posts and find so much comfort in that I am not really alone, but that doesn't make the bed any warmer, or the food any better, or the house any noisier. The quiet and loneliness is so overwhelming sometimes. I wish I could have answers to the WHYs, and the Why Mes???

burnt_toast posted 12/17/2007 19:24 PM

I wasn't much of a TV listener untill STBX left for good. Now it's on and I'm watching some random silly movie. I suspect I do it mostly for the noise.

queequeg posted 12/20/2007 09:29 AM

Yew Tree:

Although all our marriages had problems, as do most marriages, the why of the A and the WS leaving is unanswerable for you.

It lies buried deep within the character and the psyche of your XWS.

Just as the WS might have identified to you the things that bothered him/her while you were still married, us BSs might have done a better job of identifying the important elements of character that we all expected in a mate.

Not all unhappy spouses have As.

Not all unhappy spouse run off into the sunset with an AP.

It is very hard sometimes when you are young, or maybe even a little older, to be asking the right questions about values and character before you marry.

Perhaps, however, we overlooked the little clues that were there, because we were "in love", or whatever.

Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps,...

But the truth is someone did not take your marriage as seriously as you did, and did not care for you as much as you cared for them.

Those are ultimately the painful facts all BSs have to come to grips with, and we need to be more demanding of character and communication the next time.

The whys lie only in the psyches of the WSs.

What the WSs need to do, I really don't know, because for them at some level marriage is a "movable feast."

[This message edited by queequeg at 9:33 AM, December 20th (Thursday)]

blackbird542 posted 12/21/2007 06:43 AM

Perhaps, however, we overlooked the little clues that were there, because we were "in love", or whatever.

But the truth is someone did not take your marriage as seriously as you did, and did not care for you as much as you cared for them.

Those are ultimately the painful facts all BSs have to come to grips with, and we need to be more demanding of character and communication the next time.

Queequeeg has this just right. I don't wish to rewrite my marriage as my STBX has, but when I and my now grown daughters look back, we see those character traits of running away from problems, failing to take responsibility except in his own way at his own time, and shutting down communication.

My WS kept secrets all throughout our marriage, and the A just became the most fatal.

I'm not sure I want another relationship, but if I do have one, I will be much more realistic about what character traits make for true happiness. I read somewhere that you marry a personality, but you end up married to the character of your partner.

I think that is the differnce between "falling in love" and "being loving." All of our WSes who have left for the OP claim to be in love with their new personalities -- both their own and the OP's. We know that both have defective characters, and that's why the failure rate for these relationships is so high.

Cold comfort for those of us left behind,but in a way, I am coming to realize that as much as I still love the man I thought I was married to, that isn't the man I am now divorcing.

I am truly reaching peace about my future as a result.

betterdaysahead posted 12/21/2007 07:04 AM

Just joining the discussion.

My stbxh left on Father's Day June 2006. Moved in with OW and never looked back. We had just celebrated our 25th anniversary.

Never really had a chance to talk about it. I have had over a year and a half to process it and I am "over" it now. Moving on. It does get better. I am totally indifferent to him now. Have no expectations as to ever getting an apology, explanation anything.

He blames me for most of the problems...I take my portion of the blame...but I will NOT accept the greater part. You address don't run away from them.

You will feel well someday...believe me.

You will have relationships also.

allalonenow posted 12/21/2007 07:25 AM

Wow - a lot of posts to read thru on this. I definitely belong here tho.

WH left on d-day & has been living with OW ever since, with the exception of a 5 nite false R over Thanksgiving when OW didn't know he was with me. As soon as we got back into town tho he went right back to her.

Last week he said he was going to be leaving her but I don't believe it. I still want to try for R but the longer he stays living there the less likely I think that will happen.

I feel as tho I've been replaced, but I know that he traded down so I get a little satisfaction from that. Also, I've told everyone that knows us & everyone is behind me with support, he has no one backing up his decision - except himself & OW. Hope that's enough to carry them thru (NOT!)

burnt_toast posted 12/21/2007 20:59 PM

On another level, allalone now, it helps me to remind myself of who (actually what) he traded down for. (You have just no idea how bad it is... learning new stuff every week... it could be a thread on its own!) Thinking about it just confirms every time that the A was NOT about me. It is definetely about my WS need for self-destruction.

I feel what could be delaying the end of my grief is waiting for those apologies that will never come. My STBXH 's moral level, at present, don't stretch further than "infidelity is ugly, bad, bad, I regret having done a bad thing. " - mostly because society says he should think so . This is so true that he felt "washed from his sins" from the minute he had decided to finally D from me.

This is the part that is the hardest to overcome : the fact that he won't acknowledge how his whole behavior really hurted me. No remorse, just regrets, as the SI people in R often say.

I find myself still waiting, not for him to come back, but for him to show remorse and apologize for the real damage he has done. The damage he witnessed every day for 2 months of false R but chose to never acknowledge. And I have to give up on that expectation if I want to get a closure and heal at some point because his coping mechanism, which is escaping from himself, won't make that possible.

[This message edited by burnt_toast at 9:01 PM, December 21st (Friday)]

incredulous posted 12/22/2007 08:14 AM


I agreee completely wiht your post about waiting for a real apology, some sign that our WS has real remorse. I think for me, if I could just see some real remorse, it would at least be a glimmer of the man I thought I married, and maybe I could start to believe he's a decent man who made a horribly bad decision and couldn't figure out a good way out. (Does that make sense?)

I've tried to get some answers. Earlier this week, WH agreed to come to my counseling session to answer some questions for me. (Our first real discussion about things since D-day). The counselor, in my mind, practically spoon-fed WH to get him even remotely close to the point of anything remotely resembling an apology. She asked him (several times) if he had any regrets or apology to make to me. His answers:

"I regret that I didn't have the words to talk about it."

"I regret that I didn't do this the way everybody thinks I should have, but it would have still caused pain."

"I'm sorry I hurt you." (in my mind, the only real apology, weak as it is!)


"I'm sorry I deceived you. I didn't mean to." (Apparently, he meant to say "yes" instead of "no" when the counselor asked him if there was someone else; he meant to say "I'm sleeping with my girlfriend" instead of "I'm going to a meeting".)

I feel so much better knowing he didn't mean to deceive me -- it was all a mistake! He meant to tell me the truth all along!

The really sad part -- when I asked him if he thought saying " I'm sorry I didn't do this the way everybody thinks I should have done it, but it would have hurt anyway" was a real admission of wrongdoing and apology, he thought about it and said yes!

ETA: This from a man who is not stupid -- he's an elementary school principal with a masters' degree. You'd think by now he'd have some concept of an apology, wouldn't you?

Who is this man, and what have you done with my husband???!!!

[This message edited by incredulous at 10:00 PM, December 24th (Monday)]

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