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User Topic: Agnostic/Atheist Support Group
HUFI-PUFI
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Default  Posted: 7:22 AM, March 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

outside4me - ETA: you typed my username wrong 3 times... U mad, bro?

I apologize 3 times for the typo error in your username ... I suspect the error came from my cut&paste ... I will strive to get it right next time!

Actually, you were right in observing that I seemed angry. It had been quite some time since I posted on this thread (originally sometime back in 2009 I believe) and as I read the whole thread yesterday to get back up to speed, I had noted some comments made that raised my ire a wee bit. Some of that might have come out in my writing this time. My Bad.

HUFI

drowninginsorrow - This thread was started so that like minded people could support each other. It should not to be used to debate or bash other beliefs


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3279 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 7:41 AM, March 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, debating the nature of atheism as a religion is taking things off track.


"You have insulted my footwear."

Posts: 7476 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
HUFI-PUFI
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Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, March 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

StillGoing - Atheism is not a religion.

Hello StillGoing Ö I donít want to violate the rules on this forum (This thread was started so that like minded people could support each other. It should not to be used to debate or bash other beliefs) but I still would like to address a point or too with regard to your post.

I agree with you that A/A are not religions in the truest sense. We do not have an organized and defined set of beliefs, behaviors, rituals or even a definition of what constitutes adherence or membership within the A/A community. While I did say that there are some people who argue that it is, I was not supporting that viewpoint.

According to …mile Durkheim, religion differs from a private belief or world view in that religion is "something eminently social" insofar as it reaches out to the greater community and is not a private matter of the person themselves.

In that sense, it would seem that the traditional viewpoint of A/A as being a private matter of ones own belief may actually be evolving into a more formalized and organized structure regardless. And I say this because there are online churches that have been created by atheists to secure legal rights, to ordain atheist clergy to hold ceremonies, as well as for education, and advocacy. http://www.atheist-community.org/ and http://firstchurchofatheism.com/ and http://www.churchoffreethought.org come to mind.

It appears that while, while the A/A community may have one belief in common (in the narrowest sense of A/A , the disbelief in a supernatural deity), there are some individuals and communities out there in the world that have other beliefs that many, if not all, atheists and agnostics donít believe in and that may include the agendas of the above mentioned groups. I'm not supporting them or arguing against them, I'm simply saying that I for one donít want anyone else pushing some agenda, for their own reasons that would or could end up defining me.

The truth is that A/A relates to a specific non-belief in the existence of a deity and not in the rejection of the other tenets of the faith and so, you are right that atheism is nothing more than a statement regarding ones belief in the existence of a supernatural being.

I believe you can be a card carrying member of almost any religion you want and still be an atheist and agnostic. Although some atheists have adopted secular philosophies, there is no one ideology or set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere. As you pointed out, atheism is accepted within some religious and spiritual belief systems, including Raelism and some Neopagan movements including Wicca and some non-theistic religions such as Jainism, Buddhism and Hinduism. I strongly feel that being A/A does not mean that you cannot be religious.

The commonality of our disbelief of a supernatural being does not imply that we have anything more in common regarding our personal belief structures or world view points. Atheists come in a variety of shapes, colors, beliefs, convictions, and backgrounds including our views on religion. We are as unique as our fingerprints. On a personal note, my own viewpoints are a synergistic blend of beliefs taken from a variety of belief structures from around the world including a belief in a higher power and yet, I still define myself as being agnostic.

HUFI


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3279 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
Tred
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Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, March 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is why I stick to Thomas Jefferson.

Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone. Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life: if it has been honest and dutiful to society the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one.

I prefer to be judged on my actions, not on my belief or disbelief.


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 4002 | Registered: Dec 2011
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 9:12 AM, March 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

*Sigh*

I jumpstarted this bad boy because I had read a slew of posts in the days prior wherein several posters' responses amounted to the oft-given. "Let go and let god", or, "everything happens for a reason..." and once that advice starts flying around I pretty much tune out. When that is the base someone is working with in their advice-giving, and works it into their advice frequently, it makes it difficult to sift through that stuff to get to the helpful nuggets, IMO.

I think we could debate the various slants on Atheism/Agnosticism 'till the cows come home and we're out of breath and still not be satisfied. Hell, I go to a meeting of Atheists/Agnostics/Freethinkers/Skeptics (Yeah, it's a large tent) every two weeks that I found via MeetUp...and even we go toe-to-toe frequently.

I like what Tred said:

I prefer to be judged on my actions, not on my belief or disbelief.

To *kind of* get things back on track, because infidelity involves morals and morality, I DO think it's interesting that a great many non-atheists equate atheism with a sort of moral lawlessness.

Even my wife, who is atheist herself, remarked to me that she's surprised that I'm not religious because I have strict standards for morality and other people's behaviors.

I tend to think that people who have actually sat down and clarified their values and beliefs (both religious and non-religious alike) do tend to be a little more strict about them, because they're clearly defined. My sense from my 30-ish years on this Earth is that most people have never sat down and actually thought about what values are important to them (and why) because once you do that, then you clearly know when you're breaking your own set of moral code going forward.

Most people seem to live in a sort of morally fuzzy universe...if you ask them specifically, "Is X right or wrong?", they'd probably tell you their answer in an objective sense, but they've never decided if that same X would be wrong if they had skin in the game, so to speak.

Just some thoughts.


I keep my mind on my future/and my eyes on the sky/I don't really smile much/If you were there you'd know why.

Posts: 2164 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 9:21 AM, March 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

While I did say that there are some people who argue that it is, I was not supporting that viewpoint.

You linked two religious articles that did so, after several comments regarding what people supposedly actually believe when it comes to certain religions after calling a world view a religion. If you were not promoting that viewpoint then I don't understand why the idea entered into the discussion.

It appears that while, while the A/A community may have one belief in common (in the narrowest sense of A/A , the disbelief in a supernatural deity), there are some individuals and communities out there in the world that have other beliefs that many, if not all, atheists and agnostics donít believe in and that may include the agendas of the above mentioned groups. I'm not supporting them or arguing against them, I'm simply saying that I for one donít want anyone else pushing some agenda, for their own reasons that would or could end up defining me.

I don't see where anyone was pushing an agenda that was defining you. Unless you happen to be a born again Christian arguing against that particular groups very loudly touted ideals of family and fidelity.

I do not see how the idea that hypocrisy should be given some kind of pass because everyone is susceptible to it is strengthened by any of the support you provided for it. Carl Sagan's hypocrisy is equally jaw dropping, and as far as I am concerned, so is Martin Luther King's. Those are two very great men who did a lot of good for this world and preached a very clear message, and discovering their infidelities is pretty fucking jaw dropping and disillusioning.

As for whether or not people who believe everything happens for a reason are wrong, I really, really, really do not think this thread is a good place for that. Discussing the discomfort or disbelief, yes. Dismissing an entire - large and vocal - group of people outright, no.

eta:

I like the Jefferson quote. There was one by Cicero that was similar but I can't remember it off the top of my head.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 9:23 AM, March 24th (Monday)]


"You have insulted my footwear."

Posts: 7476 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, March 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As for whether or not people who believe everything happens for a reason are wrong, I really, really, really do not think this thread is a good place for that. Discussing the discomfort or disbelief, yes. Dismissing an entire - large and vocal - group of people outright, no.
I wholeheartedly agree.

I'm not dismissing those posters as whole, I'm only saying that that particular lens of viewing the world - and it's workings - doesn't resonate with me as a non-believer in supernatural forces.

In terms of bad shit happening (like the affair), it's an uncomfortable place to find myself in one sense because I think that if I could say to myself, "Well there IS a reason at play here, I just don't know it...", there'd be some small measure of solace in that. In my case, though, I'd be lying to myself in one aspect of my mind so that I could feel better in another aspect. I'm not going to do that, and so my struggle continues.

[This message edited by Ascendant at 9:53 AM, March 24th (Monday)]


I keep my mind on my future/and my eyes on the sky/I don't really smile much/If you were there you'd know why.

Posts: 2164 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
HUFI-PUFI
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Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, March 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tred - Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong ... Interesting tag line for an agnostic/atheist. It's all I'm saying.

This is why being a Agnostic/Atheist (A/A) is interesting.

Atheism/Agnostic beliefs and Religions are often portrayed and treated as polar opposites and exclusive of each other. While for some people, there may be a strong correlation between being an atheist and being irreligious, that is not so for others. In my viewpoint, there is no necessary and inherent dis-connect between the two. It's a false dilemma to assume that we either have religion and morality or secularism and chaos.

Atheism is not the same as being irreligious; theism is not the same as being religious. The answers to the question of ďcan a A/A be religiousĒ is thus an unequivocal yes: atheists can be religious and atheism can occur in conjunction with, or even in the context of, religion.

I think in the past, for a lot of people, religion was a take it or leave it proposition with no choice in the matter of what or which beliefs came with your faith. But what I find in recent years is that people are literally creating their own unique ďworld viewsĒ by rejecting some tenets, adopting new ones, integrating and merging the traditional viewpoints into a new religious diversity that is unique to each individual. More and more, people are identifying themselves as SBNR (spiritual but not religious)and in that evolution, are demanding that their churches change with the times or die.

Gone are the days when people just blindly accepted a platform. Nowadays, religious experience is a diverse intra and inter-faith experience that picks and chooses its tenets according to what works for the individuals. People are embracing new ideas, concepts and beliefs unaware or unconcerned with doctrinal distinctions. In other words, if it works, embrace it, if it doesn't work, reject it.

Susan L. Smalley thinks that belief structures will and are undergoing a radical shift and becoming more hybrid in nature and flexible in narrative. She feels that many people today seem to be Ďpicking and choosing' from a variety of sources (religions as well as psychological frameworks) to enhance transcendent relationships and to develop an individual process of personal growth that cuts across specific organized systems. In other words, instead of a one size fits all approach, we are nowadays embracing unique and individual paths including that of A/A.

On a personal note, as a agnostic, while I believe that itís impossible to KNOW the truth in matters such as God and the future life, that does not preclude me with having hope and faith that such things exist.

HUFI


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3279 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, March 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Atheists lack of belief in the supernatural is the singular definition of the word.

I have a great friend.. well, co-worker who is awesome, who is Jewish. He identifies as a Jew ethnically and takes great comfort in the rituals of his religion. He is an atheist because he does not believe in God or any of the supernatural side of his religion, but he still identifies as a Jew, enjoys being Jewish and pretty much leaves it at that.

I am sure there are Catholics out there who are in the same place. After dday I really wanted to go hide in a church. Being someplace that had all the answers and would tell me it would all be okay was very appealing. Even if I didn't believe it, the religious rites and social support was something I really wanted at the time.

I never really encounter anyone who will say an atheist can't be religious. I have never encountered anyone who proposed atheism as a religion that didn't have an agenda. If you don't Hufi, then I'm happy to have met the first.

Atheists can be religious, sure. I just simply cannot see the point in calling yourself an atheist if you believe in the supernatural. It's like calling yourself a sock when you're a person.

As for everything happening for a reason on its own merits, it's a complex subject. There are people who believe a deity micromanages everything, and take comfort in knowing that the hurtful shit they are going through will be explained at some point. There are people who believe everything is already fixed.

There are people who think the idea of free will negates the problem of evil. I read on another site a very long time ago now an excellent commentary on that - the idea of free will doesn't work in relation to an entity that created the environment in which that will is practiced in the first place. You don't have the free will to choose to breathe water - you will drown. The process of that drowning is painful. That someone else may choose to painfully drown you does not negate responsibility for creating the potential of the situation in the first place.

OTOH that bears on whether or not said base entity was unreservedly benevolent or omnipotent. If you remove either of those per-requisites then you can move forward on the subject of micromanagement. Another friend of mine, also a Jewish man, told me back in the day that "You Catholics man, you got it rough. You have to worry about God loving everybody. Me, my God just kicks everyones ass. He's a bad dude. Don't fuck with him."

Taking god out of the equation does not immediately resolve the concept of a deterministic universe anyway. God, by anyone's definition, doesn't have to be the reason things happen.

The definition of deterministic is also a big issue. We are stuck on this little rock here. Unless someone invents all of science fiction tomorrow or pulls a TARDIS from his ass, none of us are going to be hanging around on another planet, another solar system, another galaxy, or whatever that terrifying and unidentified construct external to our extant universe is that's eating all the mass up. We're stuck here. That narrows the options of choice even if choice is not illusory. Even meeting people to converse is governed by a set of criteria - the conversations we are all involved in right now were not possible three decades ago, and three centuries ago it was inconceivable.

Narrowing it further and further presents continually reduced arcs of choice until you get to the moment, but if you read up on how humans make choices then you see that said choices were made 7 seconds before they were consciously brought to fore; the discussion on whether or not the option to consciously override those choices is the same as free will is one more issue to the concept of predestination and shit happening for a reason.

Personally I think the issue is academic. It happened, so, deal with it as is most comfortable.

Also, I said it so it needs referenced:


"You have insulted my footwear."

Posts: 7476 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Tred
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Default  Posted: 10:35 AM, March 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Atheism/Agnostic beliefs and Religions are often portrayed and treated as polar opposites and exclusive of each other. While for some people, there may be a strong correlation between being an atheist and being irreligious, that is not so for others

Maybe my understanding of Agnostic/Atheist is somewhat limited. I looked up the definitions just in case:

Atheist
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Agnostic
a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.

Seems mutually exclusive to me. Now, if you replaced religion with spirituality, maybe. Everyone is entitled to their own definition and their own truths apparently. If you are a agnostic who believes in a God (or gods) that's fine with me. I won't dispute the existence of something I can't prove doesn't exist, just like the invisible men who inhabit the moon. It's just odd to come across a self labeled agnostic who says they believe in God.


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 4002 | Registered: Dec 2011
catlover50
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Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, March 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At the risk of offending more people, which totally wasn't my intent on this thread, I will try to clarify my thoughts.

I don't mean to dismiss an entire group of people outright; I feel people have a right to believe whatever they believe. I am not even referring to a specific religion; even my agnostic friends use the phrase. I just find that people often throw the statement "everything happens for a reason" out without really thinking about it. That's what I mean by challenging them, which I do rarely and only with someone I know well.

My views are different. Right for me, not for everyone. I thought that was the point of this thread, but I also recognize how that might be interpreting as dismissing other's viewpoints. Just expressing my own opinion.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1748 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
HUFI-PUFI
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Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, March 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

StillGoing - Being someplace that had all the answers and would tell me it would all be okay was very appealing.

You're right in noting that the immediate aftermath of the affair, finding someplace or someone that had all the answers and would be able to tell me it would all be okay was very appealing.

I also found myself walking into a church at one point of time. Even though I have identified as agnostic for the past 40 years, I found myself sitting in the pews of the local Baptist church trying to find answers. However, within my second attendance, it was apparent that there still was a huge gulf between their beliefs and my own and so, I stopped trying to find answers there.

HUFI


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3279 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
HUFI-PUFI
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Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, March 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tred - Everyone is entitled to their own definition and their own truths apparently.

Ain't that the truth! Gone are the days when every square peg fit perfectly into the square peg hole!

HUFI


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3279 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
HUFI-PUFI
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Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, March 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

catlover50 - I just find that people often throw the statement "everything happens for a reason" out without really thinking about it.

Greta Christina, in her article about grieving and atheism, feels that people that sprout those platitudes are so steeped in the their idea of religion as a comfort that they are unable to think of any other way to comfort those in need. She also feels that they often are unable to comprehend that their beliefs aren't universally shared by everyone. Its an ingrained way of thinking that unconsciously just pops out.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2011/08/24/grief-beyond-belief-how-atheists-are-dealing-with-death/

HUFI


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3279 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
SisterMilkshake
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Default  Posted: 3:00 PM, March 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WOW! Lots of deep profound discussion going on for early Monday morning. I find it very interesting but, quite frankly, over my head.

I haven't really deeply researched a label for what I believe or don't believe. Secular Humanism, maybe? Could it be deism? Atheist or agnostic? I am absolutely sure about nothing related to this subject.

What I find very interesting, SG and HUFI, is that I had the exact opposite experience when my FWH's affair was exposed. I just kind of shut down on the belief of God. I decided religion/church was no longer going to be a part of my life. It was the last nail in the coffin on all my past belief's about God and what that meant to me. It was a long time coming. Decades of trying to overcome what was programmed in me from an early age. Many emotional traumas in my life where I had no comfort in believing in God and his plan for me. (that people kept insisting that there was) If this was a plan for my life, it was pretty fucked up and mean to have this plan for me. I mean, who does that shit? As I have mentioned earlier in my post on this thread, I still struggle with the thoughts of burning in hell, because just what if.........................

I agree with you, catlover, and I bristle whenever that term "everything happens for a reason". Especially if it is being used to "comfort" someone. Really? How discomforting to me and, I would assume, for many others. I wouldn't say that they are "wrong" for that belief (did anyone here say that?) it is just that I don't believe that and it is presumptuous of others to assume that "everyone" has that belief.

I find the thought of atheism as a religion to be ludicrous. Not saying it is ludicrous, just that I find the thought of it ludicrous. It makes more sense to me for atheists, like SG's Jewish friend, to participate a religion already there. It makes about as much sense to me.

Interesting turn of events. DS18 (just turned 18) was recently baptized in a non-denominational Christian church. Back on page 13 (when he was 17) I was lamenting that we didn't give him any religious education. He is dating this lovely young lady (for over a year) who got him to go to her church and he decided he wanted to get baptized. I am fine with this. I want all my children to make up their own minds about their belief's in a God and religion.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9797 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
ReunitePangea
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Default  Posted: 4:10 PM, March 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't think I have posted on this forum before - it is good to see some discussion on it going on.

My WW is not a strongly religious person but she is much more so than I ever was. She grew up with a religious education. I remember her insisting we had to go to church early in our M. We had a religious wedding. The school decision on where to send our kids - public versus a religious school was a very big topic. All of these events happened while she had an affair. I agree the hypocrisy can be jaw dropping.

Hufi - you make a good point that with any affair there is hypocrisy. However, religious and affair hypocrisy is different I think. As a BS we struggle to understand any hypocrisy in a M. Religious beliefs are often at the core of what someones morals and beliefs in life are. To see that the hypocrisy went that deep is difficult to understand. When you are a BS and trying to R you are searching for trust again. We are trying to make sure that our WS core beliefs are in line that we can trust them going forward. Saying all affairs have hypocrisy is missing the point of the process in gaining back this trust.

I too dislike the "everything happens for a reason" thought process. It certainly implies someone else ultimately has control over my life. I make my own decisions in life and deal with the consequences of those decisions.

[This message edited by ReunitePangea at 4:10 PM, March 24th (Monday)]


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 489 | Registered: Nov 2012
SisterMilkshake
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Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, March 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It certainly implies someone else ultimately has control over my life.
Exactly why it makes me bristle, RU, I feel.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 4:20 PM, March 24th (Monday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9797 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 5:40 PM, March 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just kind of shut down on the belief of God. I decided religion/church was no longer going to be a part of my life. It was the last nail in the coffin on all my past belief's about God and what that meant to me. It was a long time coming. Decades of trying to overcome what was programmed in me from an early age. Many emotional traumas in my life where I had no comfort in believing in God and his plan for me.

I understand. I was raised Roman Catholic and kinda stayed that way until my early 20's. My wife was raised fundamentalist Christian. Our processes were completely different - I just kind of eventually came to realize I didn't believe such and such and it didn't really affect my life not to, on an existential level anyway (life as somebody who says "I don't believe in god" in public kind of sucks, but anyway) - I watched her struggle with walking away from religion and it was incredibly painful for her.

I ultimately didn't bother going into church because while I do still have an oddly fond place in my heart for the Catholic church it just wasn't a place for me anymore. I knew that if I opened up at all the comfort would be religious in nature - I mean it's a fucking church, that's what they do, it's not fair to go looking for validation there and expect otherwise.

Thank God for SI.



"You have insulted my footwear."

Posts: 7476 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
catlover50
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Default  Posted: 5:44 PM, March 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sister, I too, want my children to make up their own minds. I even took them to Sunday School when they were little, so that they had some knowledge of what tends to predominate in our culture.

Our children have studied all the major religions on their own; our son even knows all about Scientology (he's a philosophy major and likes knowledge of all sorts). Our daughter leans towards Buddhism and our son talks over our head and I'm not sure what he believes if anything!

We did strive to teach them to think for themselves and not automatically trust authority. It is interesting, and a bit disconcerting, to see how that plays out as they get older (son is 22 and daughter 19)!



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1748 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
SisterMilkshake
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Default  Posted: 6:52 PM, March 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank God for SI.
Yes, indeed!
I ultimately didn't bother going into church because while I do still have an oddly fond place in my heart for the Catholic church
I understand this. I actually love "old style" Catholic churches. The ornateness, the stained glass windows, the stations of the cross, the sometimes macabre statues. I am enthralled with them. I just enjoy visiting these kind of churches and find serenity there, but not because of "god" but more because of the beauty and the nostalgia and comfort of my childhood. I understand how you may have wanted to go to the church.

catlover, your children sound like very independent thinkers which is a great thing. Really, as parents I feel that is a good goal to try to instill in our children. Good job!

When my two oldest were young, I was still trying to be a "christian". Was attending mostly non-denominational churches. I did want my children to learn about religion, but I didn't want to force them like I was. They were both into "church" for quite awhile. We even had to use not being able to go to church as punishment for our oldest because that was the only thing that she really valued and would feel punished to lose. We only had to ground her once from church. Both chose to be baptized.

When DD went off to college and did study religions, she has changed. I wouldn't say she is quite an atheist, but she is probably leaning that way. Middle DS is very spiritual, but doesn't attend church. I am proud of my children and respect their choices. I didn't want to force them to choose one way or the other or to unduly influence them.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


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