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I Can Relate Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Agnostic/Atheist Support Group
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's just like... without a God or gods, without trusting a SO 100%... without putting our lives in the hands of anyone or anything for more than a second... it just seems like a lot to undertake for all of existence.

Right, I think that it can feel really lonely, but it doesn't make it any less true.

I agree with Ascendant, but ... the part that keeps me wondering is the evidence that the world is not simply mechanical. I know, I know - randomness - but that doesn't quite seem true, either.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10345 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 1:47 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I completely agree, sisoon. I've experienced things that don't register on the mechanical plane. It's just one of those things where I feel like the more I learn, the less I know...

Looking for a scientific answer to my feelings... that will work, right?

Hey h0peless - any luck on coming up with a prettier euphemism for "cynical"?


Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it. - François-Marie Arouet

Posts: 17806 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 3:08 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The problem with understanding exactly how everything works is that you have a complete understanding of everything, which renders the entire debate moot due to your omniscience.

At which point, you'd have at least one trait of an all powerful deity, from a scientific standpoint.

Also, it's a useful job skill if you're a Ghostbuster, but you're expected to pad your resume there.


"You have insulted my footwear."

Posts: 7476 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sometimes you hurt my brain, SG, and I do mean that in the kindest way possible.

Posts: 7498 | Registered: Dec 2010
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 3:16 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Between this and your last post in BM21 I have had the best laughs of the year today, StillGoing. Insomnia suits you.


Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it. - François-Marie Arouet

Posts: 17806 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 5:23 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I want to apologize for my last post. Something I read over the weekend had me thinking back about Marx's Communist Manifesto and once I started typing (flow of consciousness) I kinda forgot my audience.

I didnt mean to paint all religions and people of faith with a same brush and assume that if they were religious they must believe this or that.

Everyone has different beliefs and different levels of belief. Marx (and Nietzsche and others) believed that religion was unnecessary in a enlightened society. Their version of what a enlightened society was is actually highly intolerant.. and that is FAR from my own personal beliefs

My personal beliefs are that as long as a person does no harm to others I really dont care what they believe or dont believe or what god they pray to.

As I said though I was thinking about Marx and got on a roll and my fingers got ahead of my thinking and so I did not consider how others would feel. I am very sorry if I offended anyone.

[This message edited by Razor at 5:25 PM, July 7th (Monday)]


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche


Posts: 3483 | Registered: Sep 2007
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 9:39 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Looking for a scientific answer to my feelings... that will work, right?
Wait, so you mean...oh, f***....I am in serious trouble.

More seriously, I really don't know how to NOT intellectualize things to death. I read on here all the time about how you're supposed to 'feel' your feelings, your anger, your sadness, etc., but I don't even know what that looks like IRL. Analyzing and intellectualizing stuff is part and parcel to who I am...not only that, but the fact that I don't let my feelings get in the way of work and stuff that needs to get done has always been a trait that I'm really proud of.

I mean, what is 'feeling' my anger, for example? Yelling at my wife? Calling her names? Putting a hammer through OM's face? I don't know what it means to just sit and feel something. I feel like it's a pretty significant....something or other. I'd say 'hurdle', but again, I *like* being able to not be ruled by my emotions, so sometimes I think it'd be easier to just chuck the whole f***ing marriage and move on....as in, why should I have to change the way I happily operate because my wife degraded herself?

That being said, I'm having a f***ing terrible mind movie day, so...y'know, grain of salt, yada, yada, yada.

Sometimes you hurt my brain, SG, and I do mean that in the kindest way possible.

Between this and your last post in BM21 I have had the best laughs of the year today, StillGoing. Insomnia suits you.
You want funny, find his Yoda (or was it Obi-Wan, SG?) rant in the BM archives one day. StillGoing is like high on my list of people I'd be interested in meeting at a G2G...but you know, not in a creepy way.


I keep my mind on my future/and my eyes on the sky/I don't really smile much/If you were there you'd know why.

Posts: 2164 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 9:58 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Razor, thanks for saying something. I understand that you had a rough go where religion is concerned and I respect your feelings, there are just so many people on this site whose feelings and beliefs I also respect and I'd hate to accidentally hurt some feelings over something that is so deeply personal.

Ascendant, I truly think we need to limit our tandem posts to about 6 per thread or it WILL turn into an intellectualizing death spiral. I'm sorry for the mind-movie slog. You're 1.5ish years out from the last Dday, right? That is a tough window. I know we're all talking about the benefits of autonomy right now... but in terms of the affair fallout I really want to encourage you to find a good space to try and involve Livewithhope when you go through these triggers. I know you struggle with what to do with the anger, but if you can separate that out from the pain and make yourself a teensy bit vulnerable and tell her you're hurting, she may actually appreciate the trust you're putting in her to talk that out.

Just a thought.


Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it. - François-Marie Arouet

Posts: 17806 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 10:02 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Something I read over the weekend had me thinking back about Marx's Communist Manifesto and once I started typing (flow of consciousness) I kinda forgot my audience.

I think that for all I ramble off on tangents all the fucking time I have it a lot better because I am always watching for it. Which kinda says alot given how much I just go into that place anyway.

As for the Yoda post, I don't remember that one well. I bet if I found it and read it I'd be all "FUCK YEAH MAN" but most of this stuff just kinda rolls along like a torrential river and my mouth/posting/whatever is just a sliver window that occasionally encompasses enough of a complete thought sequence it retains some kind of coherency. Was that the one bitching about Iron Man or was that a different one? I feel compelled to tie in Thor somehow just to keep this on topic but I will just throw the brakes on.

eta:

I am a LOT less colorful IRL. Since we had kids anyway. or since the second one I guess. I'm really pretty boring.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 10:04 PM, July 7th (Monday)]


"You have insulted my footwear."

Posts: 7476 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 10:06 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know you struggle with what to do with the anger, but if you can separate that out from the pain and make yourself a teensy bit vulnerable and tell her you're hurting, she may actually appreciate the trust you're putting in her to talk that out.

Right.

I agree.

I dunno. This is on me, not her, but it feels repetitive and dumb. It's like,

Me: "Oh, I'm hurting because I'm picturing you having sex against a wall with one of my friends."

Her: "I'm sorry I hurt you."

Me: "..."

Repeat ad nauseaum for every trigger. Her response might change a bit, but really, what can she say at this point?

And that's it. I don't feel any better, she feels worse, etc. Sharing it with her doesn't do anything for me, healing-wise. I know she's sorry. I know she feels terrible...but knowing that does nothing for me....know what I mean? I don't feel better just because I know she feels worse.


I keep my mind on my future/and my eyes on the sky/I don't really smile much/If you were there you'd know why.

Posts: 2164 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 10:11 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SG-

No, it was something about calling Yoda a scared b**** or something because when s** when down, he took off and hid. It was in BM (like 8-12, probably), but I just casually looked through your older posts and I think it fell off the archives. I have your post praising Captain America saved on my computer though, that one is awesome.

I think I'm about the same in real life, just that my thoughts are less organized IRL. I've been known to swear a lot, still, but try to avoid it in front of polite company or children.

ETA: Is casually looking through people's older posts stalker-y? 'Cuz if so...then I'm creepy.

ETA2: I'm not trying to poo-poo anyone's advice. It's all good advice, it's just stuff that I've tried and hasn't really worked for me.

[This message edited by Ascendant at 10:30 PM, July 7th (Monday)]


I keep my mind on my future/and my eyes on the sky/I don't really smile much/If you were there you'd know why.

Posts: 2164 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 10:46 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not worried about whether you take my advice or not - I know that my perspective is rarely going to apply to someone else's. I just advise on the off-chance.

I did want to clarify that I'm not suggesting you tell her so that you feel better or she feels worse. I get that talking doesn't magically fix it. I suggested it in the context of this conversation because I think it's tough to go through that alone. If you talk to her about it, she can be there with you, and there's something about having someone/something there with you that is sometimes comforting for all parties.


Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it. - François-Marie Arouet

Posts: 17806 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 11:07 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I suggested it in the context of this conversation because I think it's tough to go through that alone. If you talk to her about it, she can be there with you, and there's something about having someone/something there with you that is sometimes comforting for all parties.
You're 100% right - your advice does make a lot of sense in the context of the conversation we were having here.

I think I'm just having a shitty, triggery day, and this thread got some stuff from inside me that would have been more appropriate in general or the BM thread. My issues were not really 'in context' with this thread, that's my bad.


I keep my mind on my future/and my eyes on the sky/I don't really smile much/If you were there you'd know why.

Posts: 2164 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
h0peless
♂ Member
Member # 36697
Default  Posted: 1:51 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey h0peless - any luck on coming up with a prettier euphemism for "cynical"?

Nope. I even looked it up in a thesaurus.

I guess I'm still in a pretty cynical place when it comes to thinking about relationships. Everybody thinks I should be over it by now, and maybe I should, but it seems that they bring people more pain than joy.

Just in a really, really dark place lately.


Posts: 1731 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Baja Arizona
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hear that, h0peless. I'm so sorry.

Everybody thinks I should be over it by now,

Pshhh, everybody WHO? You get as much time to figure it out as it takes. Period.

I seem to recall that you like to travel - any chance you can get out for a while?

I looked up better words, or upgrades, for cynicism too... sometimes I'll swap "pragmatism" in even through it's not exactly the same.

I'm not sure what it means, but if people still in relationships are having the same feelings that people who aren't in relationships are, that at least means that you're not alone in this.

I still believe that there are people who are inherently good who we have the fortune to spend some time with. Sometimes it takes getting out a little farther past our comfort zones, both literally and mentally.

I also wonder if your username isn't subconsciously taking jabs at you from time to time... I want you to have h0pe someday.


Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it. - François-Marie Arouet

Posts: 17806 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
h0peless
♂ Member
Member # 36697
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Family and friends mostly. My brother and his fiance just had a baby and every time I'm around them, she bugs me about finding someone and having babies and then they make fun of me for turining into "Uncle Harold", who is a perfectly nice, harmless guy with really bad OCD who hasn't been in a relationship for as long as anyone in our generation can remember. Apparently he was engaged in the '70s, had a really traumatic breakup and was never the same. Maybe that's my fate as well.

Travel is out of the question right now due to finances. I'd love to go to Boston to see my sister and her wife, or Iowa to watch my step brother play Football, or back to Italy to see my other sister but I really can't afford it. That sort of is my escape and I think I need to find a new one that isn't so expensive.

ETA: It probably doesn't help much that the 2 year antiversary is coming up on the 29th. This is just going to be one of those months for a while, I think.

[This message edited by h0peless at 12:27 PM, July 8th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 1731 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Baja Arizona
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 12:32 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

she bugs me about finding someone and having babies and then they make fun of me for turining into "Uncle Harold

Wow, I'm trying to find another word besides "assholes" to describe these people since it's your family... but I can't find my thesaurus.

Antiversaries definitely make things harder to push through. Keep leaning on us - you know we're here and we get it. Eyes on the 30th. I swear that as soon as I'm out of the anti window it's like a weight lifts. Gets easier every year, too.

(((h0peless

(Bro hug - I can't help but notice the room is full of dudes right now. When in Rome!)


Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it. - François-Marie Arouet

Posts: 17806 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
h0peless
♂ Member
Member # 36697
Default  Posted: 12:40 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not sure about assholes. Since I'm such a big fan of euphemisms, I'd brobably say "lacking in empathy because they've never experienced it before" and for that, I'm glad. I would normally talk to my brother in law about it since he's been through it twice but he lives in Italy and is too busy running with the bulls in Spain right now to talk.

Posts: 1731 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Baja Arizona
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 12:44 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sorry about the "Uncle Harold" comment, h0peless. I'm sure they didn't know how much that stung, even though it is far from the truth.

Those antiversary months are brutal, but they get better with time. The first couple of years were particularly rough for me. Try to do something nice for yourself, if you can.

You been out on your bike lately?

Thinking of you, man.

[This message edited by LosferWords at 12:44 PM, July 8th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 7498 | Registered: Dec 2010
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sorry - assholes was a bit harsh. I just don't get how someone can make FUN of someone who has been through something like this. I'll stick with "lacking in empathy" but I think "completely insensitive" is a little closer.

Running with the bulls? Eek! Sending not-getting-gored mojo to bro-in-law.


Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it. - François-Marie Arouet

Posts: 17806 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
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