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Agnostic/Atheist Support Group

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LosferWords posted 7/8/2014 20:32 PM

Then there are the diagnostics... who neither believe or disbelieve in two gods.

Jrazz posted 7/8/2014 20:41 PM

This train has derailed.

[This message edited by Jrazz at 8:41 PM, July 8th (Tuesday)]

Ascendant posted 7/8/2014 20:49 PM

Y'all are silly.

StillGoing posted 7/8/2014 21:09 PM

Prove it.

This is where I escalate to challenging you to pay for the fmri and then something fucking scary happens where a black van shows up outside my house with a picture of some WW1 gas mask on it just as I sit down to read your reply of "Okay, should be ready about now." Then it all gets too close to that movie Brazil and I lose the plot.

Jrazz posted 7/8/2014 21:12 PM

I certainly wouldn't f#$% with rebreather.

SisterMilkshake posted 7/9/2014 16:34 PM

I haven't been an official "non-believer" for very long now. I have had my doubts from a young age, but I have finally embraced them and I am at peace with it, finally.

However, I was recently called "Satan's ignorant henchmen". That was a first. And, I have got to be honest, it kind of hurt. Just a little. Scared me, too. It is so hard to overcome my indoctrination.

Pass posted 7/9/2014 16:44 PM

"Satan's ignorant henchmen"

Dude, be proud. We should get that printed on jackets!

SisterMilkshake posted 7/9/2014 16:47 PM

Oh, thank you, Pass. You are right. Leather jackets with our logo. Cool!

Ascendant posted 7/9/2014 20:23 PM

I want a beanie.

LosferWords posted 7/9/2014 20:27 PM

T-shirt for me, please. Size XL.

Jrazz posted 7/9/2014 22:00 PM

Two pug sized t-shirts here. They're 20#'s if it matters.

Ascendant posted 7/9/2014 22:10 PM

Oh man, I used to have a pug! I love those lil guys!

Jrazz posted 7/9/2014 23:20 PM

They're my happy place - when I don't want to sell them to the circus on account of barking.


nekorb posted 7/9/2014 23:22 PM

Ascendant:

I don't know what it means to just sit and feel something.

To me this means not distracting yourself from the uncomfortable feeling, but allowing (or sometimes forcing) yourself to sit with it and experience it.

We talked about it a lot in terms of recovering from an eating disorder - You don't use the food/bingeing/purging etc to distract from whatever uncomfortable feeling you are having...you force yourself to sit there and FEEL it....which usually means being miserable for at least a little while....and you learn other coping skills that are healthy through that process.

nekorb posted 7/9/2014 23:25 PM

However, I was recently called "Satan's ignorant henchmen". That was a first. And, I have got to be honest, it kind of hurt. Just a little. Scared me, too. It is so hard to overcome my indoctrination.

Wow. Just wow. Do you really care about the opinion of a person/group that would utter those words?

I liken it to a group hollering the "n" word at a black person...would you give two shits what those people thought? Or write them off as assholes?

Maxiom posted 7/9/2014 23:38 PM

I have been called worse. When someone says it with hatred such statements are almost dehumanizing. Still I have gotten used to it.

My trip to florida was certainly an eye opener. At least in Canada the fundies are generally few and far between. I had one Adventist guy go ape at me because I had the gall to throw out a pamphlet he handed me with a picture of Jesus on it. well.. he got a little miffed.. then I asked if he would prefer i burn it.. then he went crazy on me.

PenitentMan posted 7/11/2014 15:43 PM

Use the words man.

Fine.

My Dad died 20 years ago. I was 18 and home from college for the summer I think. I was pretty much an atheist by that point, but still, at the end, when he was really suffering, I prayed.

I prayed like I never prayed before. "If you're out there, please forgive me for not believing. Please save him." When he was gone, it really just solidified it for me. There is no divine intervention, because if god does exist, then it's a god who does not know about events on this planet. Because if he/she/it did know, and was truly omnipotent, then he/she/it wouldn't allow the kind of suffering that goes on in the world.
And for those that say it's all according to some plan, then that plan SUCKS and I don't want any part of a god like that.

I also remember the day after he passed, I woke up, and I felt RELIEVED, that at least I was still alive and I was still breathing and I wasn't suffering. Clearly this is a selfish feeling and I remember I felt ashamed about it. This is actually the first time I'm telling anyone about it as well.
So I was originally going to say that maybe, subconsciously, his death contributed to my selfishness because if it doesn't matter what we do or don't do, since death comes for us all in the end, so I can go have sex with my friend's wife and it really doesn't matter in the long run. When my time is up, I'll just be gone, like everyone else who's time is up. And what if there really is nothing else after? Everyone who has ever been born and is now dead. Simply gone. Unaware of our lives just as we were unaware of this reality before our own births.

But you're right h0peless, this rationalization is predictable and lame and so were all of my others.

I made BW out to be much worse than she was. I was horny. I wanted something different for a change. A threesome/foursome was something I always fantasized about, and thanks to alcohol, warm summer nights, and AP, who convinced my wife into kissing her in the pool in front of the husbands, it eventually led to the bedroom, more than once. In fact, that's how A #2 started, with my wife and her husband passed out. We were over there all the time drinking, and it kept happening. So, it was easy to cross that line when she told me when she'd be home, alone. I remember thinking that I was going to hell anyway (if it so turns out there is one), so it didn't matter what I was doing. I was very conflicted when I agreed to meet AP alone, sober. I knew it was wrong. It felt wrong. I dreaded it. But in the end, I went anyway. I wanted to, and nobody else would find out about it. Well, here we are.

I certainly have some kind of moral compass, because I don't go around killing people, or worse. I know right from wrong. So why wasn't adultery wrong for me? I chose fantasy instead of reality. And given that it was a conscious choice, there's really no other explanation other than I was a selfish asshole.

h0peless posted 7/11/2014 21:24 PM

I've had a lot of the same thoughts but I came to a different conclusion than you. I imagine 150 years from now, nobody will know who I was. I'd like to at least leave the world having made a positive impact and hopefully contribute to a better future rather than causing pain.

So maybe the lack of belief in an afterlife fed into your rationalization, and on that level maybe your lack of belief has something to do with it. I don't think it's atheism itself, though, but the use of it to give yourself permission to act out in a selfish way. My Mom is the most hardcore Christian I know but she cheated on my Dad for years with the pastor. Her rationalization was that he was a Godly man and she was helping him, or some sort of twisted shit like that. Really, what it boiled down to, was the fact that she wanted to have sex with the pastor even though she was married so she used her religious beliefs to rationalize it.

It sounds like you did the same with your lack of belief.

PenitentMan posted 7/11/2014 22:54 PM

I imagine 150 years from now, nobody will know who I was. I'd like to at least leave the world having made a positive impact and hopefully contribute to a better future rather than causing pain.

Well, yeah, that's what I thought too. I really prided myself on my values. Until I threw it all out the window.

I think if you want to "get you some", it doesn't matter who you are, how godly you are, what your past was like, if the circumstances are right and the hook is baited, there are those of us who will bite.

I keep thinking of the movie "Trading Places" where the dukes make a bet that privileged Dan Aykroyd will take to a life of crime "like a fish to water" simply by having all of his money and his fiancee taken away and being outcast and placed with the "worst sort of people".

So, I'm back to square one. Those that believe in god are unfaithful. Those that don't believe in god are unfaithful.

But hey, I'm trying. Leave no stone unturned sort of thing :)

Thanks for your perspective, h0peless

[This message edited by SelfishHusband at 10:55 PM, July 11th (Friday)]

h0peless posted 7/11/2014 23:42 PM

I think the atheist rationalization might be leading you somewhere. I just think it's pointing you in the direction of much deeper issues. Find them and you can fix them. Keep digging!

LosferWords posted 7/12/2014 00:26 AM

I prayed like I never prayed before. "If you're out there, please forgive me for not believing. Please save him." When he was gone, it really just solidified it for me. There is no divine intervention, because if god does exist, then it's a god who does not know about events on this planet. Because if he/she/it did know, and was truly omnipotent, then he/she/it wouldn't allow the kind of suffering that goes on in the world.
And for those that say it's all according to some plan, then that plan SUCKS and I don't want any part of a god like that.

Ouch. I've had similar moments, SH. I can't say that I have lost a parent yet, but I do feel every sentiment that you are saying here, and I appreciate your visceral honesty. My heart hurts for you, just reading this.

The thing is, you don't need a god to have a moral compass. That is something that I have had to work through in my head, as a person who has been through some shit, and as a person who has been a cheater, too.

It is okay to be motivated by the greater good to work on yourself, even if the reason for that is nothing more than wanting to be a better person.

I really appreciate you opening up here and talking about it.

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