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Agnostic/Atheist Support Group

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SisterMilkshake posted 11/17/2015 19:11 PM

Thanks, Ascendent. Do you recommend reading the books in any particular order?

Ascendant posted 11/17/2015 19:31 PM

Nah, they all kind of work independent of each other. I'd probably recommend "The God Delusion" first, and then the other two in any order.

SisterMilkshake posted 11/17/2015 19:41 PM

Thanks, again.

Exit Wounds posted 12/4/2015 10:30 AM

SisterMilkshake,

Thank you for welcoming me to your tribe. Makes me feel like I belong...something that I have been missing in my life...


LizM posted 12/4/2015 23:05 PM

I'm agnostic, but I used to think that religion was a good thing for the most part, because it (theoretically) encourages moral behavior. But today when I was listening to OW woman talk about going to church, I started thinking what a waste of time is. Her church undoubtedly preaches that adultery is a sin, but she has committed it multiple times.

It seems to me that people are going to make poor choices no matter what their religious persuasion is. I'd be willing to bet that the adultery rate amongst Christians is the same as for non believers. Sure, Muslims may have a lower rate, but that's only because some Muslim countries still stone people to death for it.

So really there is pretty much no value to religion in my mind anymore. Completely pointless.

SisterMilkshake posted 12/6/2015 14:49 PM

ExitWounds, right back atcha.

LizM, welcome to the tribe, too! I see your point and agree with it almost totally. However, I do see the point in religion as far as having a "community" that you can possibly depend on. But, that hasn't been my particular experience. I have been pretty much let down by every church I have joined. Except one, which was pretty cool, but then we moved out of state, so...

Also, the book that I have mentioned, Liz, by Christopher Hitchins titled "god is not Great" the actual complete title is "god is not Great How Religion Poisons Everything" I haven't been able to read much yet. Too much stuff going on. But, I am really interested in his perspective on religion. Might speak to what you posted about, Liz.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 5:29 PM, December 6th (Sunday)]

sisoon posted 12/6/2015 16:26 PM

If you search on 'Barna Report Variation in divorce rates by religion' or 'American Journal of Sociology Jennifer Glass Philip Levchak' you should find some interesting statistics. Both support the conclusion that D rates for fundmentalist Christians (that is, Christians who believe the Bible is literally true) is higher than for atheists.

A number of people assert that fundamentalists who actually attend church at some level of frequency actually have a lower rate of D than any or at least some other religious groups, but I haven't seen any actual report, just the claims.

Infidelity rates are different from D rates, of course, but logic seems to indicate they're directly and closely related to each other.

[This message edited by sisoon at 4:48 PM, December 6th (Sunday)]

SisterMilkshake posted 12/6/2015 17:31 PM

That is interesting, sisoon. I don't think I have given that subject much thought. (religion in relation to divorce)

sisoon posted 12/6/2015 18:49 PM

BTW, IMO a lot of the problem we have with religion is due to religion's inserting itself into politics.

I think Roger Williams was the first person to notice that when you mix religion and politics, you get politics.

I think it would be instructive to match state and local political decisions vs. D rates, but that is way outside the purpose (and guidelines) of SI, so those studies are for other venues.

[This message edited by sisoon at 3:13 PM, December 7th (Monday)]

JRod posted 12/24/2015 16:38 PM

I'm so happy to find other like minded individuals.

JRod posted 12/24/2015 16:38 PM

I'm so happy to find other like minded individuals.

Jeaniegirl posted 12/29/2015 14:53 PM

Hi all! Just to add a little humor ... Have any of you heard about W.C. Fields, a very high profile atheist and when friends visited him in the hospital before he died, they found him reading the bedside bible. When asked about it and why he, an atheist was reading the bible, he said replied..."just looking for loopholes."

[This message edited by Jeaniegirl at 2:53 PM, December 29th (Tuesday)]

OneFootFirst posted 12/30/2015 23:39 PM

I love this forum. Every once in a while, I cruise through and check up on the posts I've missed (I'm not as regular a contributor or reader as I'd like to be on SI).
Whoever said "there are no atheists in foxholes" would have gotten a run for his money around here.
Thanks Ascendant for the book recommendations! No chance of finding them in my little town, since the only place to find used books is run by an overzealous born-again woman who would probably burn them if anyone dared to bring any into her shop, but the next time I'm cruising around online I'll do a search. Always nice to read one's own thoughts as organized by someone more eloquent than one's self, and to follow someone else's logic train to new places.

Ascendant posted 12/31/2015 01:54 AM

Since this thread doesn't get a ton of action, I just like to pop in every now and again to remind newbies that this thread isn't here as a venue to bash religion, but to be a place where we can discuss some of the specific challenges that a non-religious person faces during the pain of dealing with infidelity.

Thank you.

Newlease posted 1/12/2016 10:13 AM

Ok - this isn't specifically about infidelity, but my son has just admitted that he is an alcoholic. I have encouraged him to seek out AA. It has a strong spiritual component, which is extremely helpful to many people.

I have a dear friend who has an alcoholic husband who won't be consistent with his sobriety. She goes to Al Anon and is a very devout person. I love her - she is a great friend and support. But right now she is bombarding me with religious messages and I just can't take it. I don't want to lash out and hurt her feelings. I know she is just trying to help, but it is making me frustrated.

I guess the infidelity component is that I can't discuss this with XWH because he's having some depression issues and is very fragile. In fact, he has been in bad shape since the D 10 years ago - which HE wanted and filed for. He is no help to anyone - can't be counted on - he makes everything about him. ARRRGGG!

Thanks for letting me share.

NL

GotTheTshirtToo posted 1/18/2016 16:24 PM

new to SI but a many year atheist (someone who has no belief in a god or gods) and an active humanist.

sisoon/sister milkshake - not political but interesting?

“In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion in the prosperous democracies.”
Journal of Religion and Society reported in The Times, 27sept2005

OneFootFirst - like this?

"May be there are only atheists in foxholes. If the faithful truly and fully believe in a protective deity, why would they dive into a foxhole to protect themselves from the bullets whizzing by? A part of their brain knows damn well that if they do not protect themselves, the bullets will hardly discriminate between those who claim faith and those who reject it. They may say and think they believe, but their instinctive actions expose the lie.

Why do the faithful buy health insurance? House insurance? Most people live their lives as though there is no god. We stop at red lights, we put our children in car seats, and we act responsibly to protect our safety and the safety of those we love............If a person is religious, he is an atheist in relation to others’ gods and the gods of history. He will almost invariably live as an atheist in relation to his own worshipped deity.

We expect others to live as atheists too. We want them to stop at red lights and not assume we drive under divine protection. We in the West have become so used to religious people not really, truly, and fully believing what they say that we are startled when, as on 9/11, we encounter people who really do believe their religion and put their beliefs into murderous practice."
why we believe in gods – J Anderson-Thomson/Clare Aukofer

sisoon posted 1/18/2016 17:31 PM

RipsInMyChest posted 1/19/2016 15:05 PM

NewLease, you may want to google "the bad science of Alcoholics Anonymous". There is very good scientific data showing other treatments are far better than the 12 steps....and without the dogma. So many people just turn to AA because that was the only thing offered for so long.

Scientific research on alcoholism and drug addiction is in it's infancy....but the data coming out is helping us to better understand how our brains work and how addiction happens. I would recommend researching naltrexone.

Newlease posted 1/19/2016 16:09 PM

Thanks RIMC.

I looked at a couple of articles regarding medication therapy v. AA. It seems that there is really no "one size fits all" to the problem of alcohol addiction.

My knee jerk advice was AA because that's all I knew about. He has yet to get to a meeting, and if further intervention is required, I will suggest looking into this treatment.

NL

Tecuacuicani posted 1/23/2016 01:46 AM

Newbie here, greeting fellow tribesmen

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