Whoops too quick on the post button....
I look at my H's GF this way. She was a mirror. As awful as she was, he was too. You know he didn't have an affair with a fine, upstanding, naieve woman, right? You know he affaired-down, right? Why because likeminded sick people gravitate together, because together, they can look around and tell themselves "hey, I'm not as bad as that guy. or I haven't sunk so low as that."
There was no lower for my H to sink. He was f'ng whores for God's sake.
I'm a little pissed at him today and very emotional, so my posts are going to be skewed that way. But this I know... I AM the better person and if he can't rise to meet me, well, his loss.
[This message edited by weepy at 9:59 AM, June 6th (Wednesday)]
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
I just got the chance to read this forum and am finally joining in this thread.
Thanks all for contributing the recommendation and nice discussions.
I am FWW, I am talking about it from flip side. (my H's sexual kink -3somes lead to my A, therefore I was open book and I didn't feel the guilt. Anyways, you can read my story in my profile) With xOM, I was doing it out of habit/addiction. At the beginning of ending EMA, I wasn't pysically attracted to H especially when I still had some contact with xOM. I have been NC for almost 7 months now and it is helping me to feel indiffarent toward xOM and I am finally able to focus on H. We are back to having the normal monogamy M.
Here is my summary: After I had two children, I had hysterectomy (I was 27), having OMs was norm in our M. When I turned 40, started having hormone supplement (vagifem) because of the dryness and uncomfortable when I had sex. My problem and frustlation right now is, I am having the zero interest in sex. Nothing would turn me on. Maybe it is recovering from Sex Addict or something. (from one extreme to another…?)
I just bought this book and am hoping that my libido will come back. "Orgasmic Diet"A Revolutionary Plan to Lift Your Libido and Bring You to Orgasm
by Marrena Lindberg. I am going to try this before I get the medical help. Wish me luck.. Thanks folks!!
Read an Excerpt
If you’re like me, with a busy life filled with raising kids, working hard at a job, and trying to keep your house clean, you probably struggle to find the time and energy for sex–whether you have a partner or not. And even when you do have time, you might, like millions of other women, have great difficulty feeling sexual desire,
having an orgasm, or experiencing any sexual satisfaction at all.
You may think that all you need to fix this absence of passion and pleasure is time: time to get a massage, take a yoga class, be romanced by your sweetheart, or take a long bubble bath. That should do it, you believe, listening to the many voices out therewho have you convinced that the key to embracing your sexuality is simply mind over matter. Well, nothing could be further from the truth.
I’m not saying female sexuality isn’t complicated. We women like to be relaxed, aroused, and seduced–and sometimes all three. We have many different ways to experience sexual pleasure and can reach orgasm through various means. But the fact remains: if certain biochemical and physical pathways are not working exactly right, no amount of romancing we receive will ever get us to feel desire and achieve orgasm. Indeed a large percentage of women either cannot have an orgasm, have great trouble reaching orgasm, and/or experience little or no libido at all. These women are not unusual; they are actually suffering from female sexual dysfunction (FSD), which is defined as the inability to orgasm or difficulty in doing so, low or nonexistent libido, the loss of sensation and sexual responsiveness, and pain with intercourse. (Pain with intercourse isthe only form of FSD not addressed by the Orgasmic Diet; if you are experiencing painful intercourse, it is advisable to see a medical professional.) And according to one recent study, 43 percent of women have some form of FSD; that’s 50 million women in the United States–an astounding number!
The Orgasmic Diet will change all of that.
Not every woman who hasn’t experienced an orgasm has FSD; some have just not been shown how to have an orgasm–clitoral or vaginal. Many women come to me aying, “I have never had an orgasm. I wouldn’t know the difference between a vaginal and a clitoral orgasm–I don’t even know what an orgasm feels like!” If you are in that boat, don’t think you are all that unusual. Most women who can orgasm experience clitoral orgasm, from stimulation of their clitoris (either manually, orally, or using a vibrator). Some rare women are physically unable to have clitoral orgasms, but most are. It you have never had a clitoral orgasm, read chapter 9. If you are already having them but want more and/or want to achieve them more easily–go on my diet.
Many women claim they have never experienced a vaginal orgasm, and many women say that they rarely feel interested in whoopi. That’s where the Orgasmic Diet comes in. One woman in her midthirties, who has been married for twelve years, said that themost remarkable thing she discovered being on the diet was how the diet affects the body. She commented, “I was amazed at howlow my libido was before the diet.”
A woman in her late thirties who had very low libido and sexual response (the two main types of FSD) found that after only two weeks following the diet, she had more interest in whoopi and pleasing her partner. She also said that the diet makes her feel “more relaxed, less inhibited,” and that she had an easier time having orgasms. A woman in her early forties with two young children said, “Ever since the birth of my second daughter my libido has felt nonexistent. For the first year, it didn’t really matter. But now my daughter is almost two and I am so frustrated. When I started taking the fish oil, I noticed a difference in almost three weeks! It was amazing– I was raring to go again! My partner was so relieved and grateful– he had his lover back again.”
The Orgasmic Diet is a simple, straightforward nutrition and exercise program that will very quickly (in most cases women feel the effects in two weeks) have you willing, wanting, and able to have whoopi. In time you will be able to orgasm quickly and deeply–even during intercourse. Some women have been able to experience spontaneous orgasms, and others can climax within ten seconds of penetration. Essentially, the Orgasmic Diet can make you whatever kind of sexual dynamo you wish to be. This diet has not only worked for me and many other women who have tried it, so there is plenty of anecdotal evidence, but it is also backed up clearly by science.
One woman in her late forties recently told me that before going on the diet she was never able to reach orgasm during intercourse. Within four weeks, she said she and her husband “went from ending nearly every sexual encounter in tears to acting like a couple of newlyweds.” She added, “We have gone from going through the motions quickly three to four times a month to enjoying long, intense encounters three to four times each week! Our kids are coming home from college this week for the winter break and we’re really not looking forward to the loss of privacy!” What a change, right? Another woman said that the Orgasmic Diet was so positive that she not only experienced “improved mood, libido, and lubrication” but also “more confidence and less inhibitions.”
Nothing short of revolutionary, the Orgasmic Diet is the first-ever scientifically supported nutritional and exercise method to improve libido and orgasmic ability in women. So many books are written today about women and sex, and by far the greatest number deal with ways of getting in the mood or fixing relationships, or offer techniquesfor overcoming your inner boredom, reluctance, feelings of unattractiveness, or exasperation at how long it takes you to orgasm. And then there are many useful and informative books about technique– how to give yourself an orgasm, types of foreplay, special positions for sex, et cetera. All these books offer some helpful hints about reconnecting with your inner sexual self or your partner, but none fully addresses why your body is not able to have an orgasm or feel libido. The Orgasmic Diet addresses these problems. How do I know it works? Because I created the diet and have witnessed the lifealtering effects it has had on me and hundreds of other people around the world. Just take another look at the testimonials that opened the book! And these women are offering just a taste of the powerful changes in sexual pleasure and desire you can experiencewith the Orgasmic Diet. This diet not only has the power to give women back their sexual health and ability to enjoy sexual pleasure, but it also has the potential to transform their lives, giving those who try it hope, confidence, and a renewed belief in themselves.
One of the features that makes my diet so different is that it enables you to learn how to have a vaginal orgasm. A vaginal orgasm feels different from a clitoral orgasm. First of all, women experience a vaginal orgasm within their vaginas. For some women,
this sensation emanates from stimulation of the G-spot or cul-desac; other women experience a vaginal orgasm in a more general way when the entire muscle cavity begins to pulsate. Because my diet helps improve the connection between vulva and brain, helping women really feel the improved muscle strength, increased circulation, and enhanced tightness during sex, they become more able to have vaginal orgasms.
The Orgasmic Diet will improve both clitoral and vaginal orgasms, just in different ways. Clitoral and vaginal orgasms feel different because they emanate from different places. The clitoral orgasm is experienced very specifically in the clitoris; whereas the vaginal orgasm begins deep in the vagina, but spreads outward in feeling. Clitoral orgasms are sharper and more intense, vaginal orgasms are deeper and more full-body. One type of orgasm does not replace the other; in fact, the more of one kind a woman has, the more she may find herself wanting the other kind. They work together.
The Orgasmic Diet is all about increasing your ability to experience sexual pleasure. A woman who was forty-eight when she started the Orgasmic Diet found it changed her life. Married for twenty-five years and the mother of two children in college, she explained that she had become bereft when she began losing clitoral sensitivity. “Over time it became impossible for my husband to bring me to climax and difficult for me to get there on my own, even with a powerful vibrator. After some time on the Orgasmic Diet, I began to regain a little clitoral sensitivity, but the more remarkablething was that I started having vaginal G-spot orgasms, including ejaculatory and spontaneous ones. This was entirely new for me.”
If you’ve never had a vaginal orgasm, this diet will change that. If you are already having them, great, but now you’ll have them faster and stronger. You can also learn how to increase the ease and intensity of your clitoral orgasm. You can now rev up your whoopi drive to match your partner’s, even outdo him. Wouldn’t it be nice to turn the tables and have your partner begging for a day off? Some women on the Orgasmic Diet have reported an extreme response: having a vaginal orgasm from only ten seconds of penetration, no foreplay required, and can keep on having them through the entire whoopi act. All of this–and more–may be within your reach, simply by following the four easy steps of the Orgasmic Diet.
The individual elements of the Orgasmic Diet are not medically controversial in any way. Each has already been proven to work individually, but the effectiveness of combining them had not yet been discovered–until I did. And although you can find all the scientific data that support the four individual steps of the diet in the Bibliography at the back of the book, no one yet–no scientist, no medical doctor, no whoopi counselor, no dietitian–has put these four elements together to not only address the main physiological roots of FSD but also renew passion and desire in women’s lives.
Though the Orgasmic Diet is medically sound, part of the reason the Orgasmic Diet has not been shared sooner is because of the restricted point of view of many medical professionals. In general, FSD is treated by the medical community as a psychological problem, and women looking for help are referred to some sort of counselor, including marital counselors, whoopi counselors, and sometimes psychiatrists. Of course some of the causes for women’s FSD can be psychological or relationship related, and therapy or counseling is appropriate. However, in my experience and research, many cases of dietary and nutritional women’s FSD is physical in nature, and therefore women’s bodies respond much more effectively to the elements of the Orgasmic Diet. Which is why when patients with FSD consult psychiatrists, they can just make matters worse: psychiatrists more than likely will treat a woman’s depression with
medications that simply exacerbate the problem.
Doctors are often less focused on nutritional ways to improve female sexual function; the fact is, most doctors are not trained in nutrition. They don’t know that fish oil increases dopamine levels. They don’t know that zinc and magnesium reduce sex-hormonebinding globulin. When I tell them and show them the studies proving these things, many get excited. The modern focus on pharmaceuticals often prevents the embracing of new, more holistic ideas about treating FSD and many other medical conditions. I have proof that my diet works from both animal and human studiesand from the always growing amount of anecdotal evidence from women who have successfully tried it. It works in a healthy, holistic, and synergistic way, and in many ways re-creates the diet prehistoric humans ate. And, it simply makes sense.
Essentially, the Orgasmic Diet is based on four essential factorsthat influence and enable healthy sexual functioning in women:
1. Sufficient free testosterone
2. Balanced dopamine-serotonin levels
3. PC (pubococcygeus) muscle tone
4. Healthy genital circulation
The Orgasmic Diet improves all four of these aspects, enablinghigh sexual desire and intense sexual responsiveness in the process.
Here’s how the Orgasmic Diet works:
❊ It raises free testosterone through emphasis on high protein and increased levels of zinc and magnesium in your diet.
❊ It balances the levels of two important neurotransmitters regulating women’s libido and sexual functioning, specifically dopamine and serotonin, through an increase of the omega-fatty acids found in fish oil supplements.
❊ It further boosts dopamine (the neurotransmitter enabling women to experience sexual pleasure) with healthy amounts of dark chocolate.
❊ It keeps serotonin from spiking and interfering with a proper serotonin-dopamine balance, by decreasing or altogether eliminating caffeine and all-carb meals.
❊ It improves blood flow to the genital region with the procirculatory benefits of fish oil, and it increases vaginal muscle tone through targeted exercise.
While a formal study of the diet has yet to be done (and I have begun the formal procedure for acquiring support for my research protocol), I have garnered medical and professional support from experts in the field. The director of a renowned FSD clinic at Columbia University signed on as a principal investigator for a study, and one of the foremost experts on fish oil at the National Institutes of Health (NIH) is also assisting me in my attempts to attract study funding. So know that this book’s recommendation of fish oil as a supplement will be supported by the most up-to-date research available at the time of publication. Although I am not a medical doctor, I have been vigilant in having many in the medical community review the tenets of the Orgasmic Diet and have received unequivocal support. I have also found that the diet not only helps libido, but also improves general health for many; it is good for you.
High levels of dopamine do improve female libido, so much so that several dopamine drugs to treat female sexual dysfunction are currently in Phase I clinical trials. High levels of serotonin do decrease sexual function–antidepressants are already being prescribed for premature ejaculation, and the crippling antisexual side effects of antidepressants for women are well documented, and an active field of research for the medical community. Free testosterone does control desire, and the number of women getting off-label (i.e., prescription drugs that are not yet approved by the FDA) testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) to help with FSD and the enormous popularity of books on the topic attest to how widespread and generally accepted it is, to the point where it has generated a backlash movement among some whoopi therapists at the blanket use of TRT for all women, no matter their case histories. Pubococcygeus (PC) muscle tone has already been proven to help female sexual response, especially with a high correlation to vaginal orgasmic ability. And finally, the importance of good genital blood circulation is now also widely accepted. There wasn’t enough evidence for Viagra to pass clinical trials for women, but there is certainly enough anecdotal evidence of women out there “borrowing” their husbands’ little blue pills and enjoying the results to make the idea that it would help women plausible.
The Orgasmic Diet is quite simple: eat a diet high in protein, low in carbs, and moderate in particular fats. Take fish oil supplements and some vitamins and minerals, reduce or eliminate caffeine consumption, eat a good amount of dark chocolate, and exercise your PC muscles. That’s it. There is nothing outlandish about the diet; everything a woman needs can be purchased at her supermarket or local drugstore, except for the PC muscle exercise device, a $40 item easily purchased online. There is nothing exotic in my diet like yohimbe or bromocriptine, no strange herbs like Muira puama or valerian. In fact there are no herbs at all; the diet consists of common vitamins and minerals and foods many of us are already eating, or should be. The only rather unusual things in the Orgasmic Diet are the recommendations for eating dark chocolate and consuming lots of fish oil, but chocolate and fish have been eaten (and overeaten) and studied for centuries. And really, don’t you want someone telling you to eat chocolate every day because it’s good for you?
The Orgasmic Diet is very easy to live with, much easier to follow than a weight-loss diet, and the results are much more fun. And you can tailor the diet to your liking. One woman in her midthirties did not feel the need to use the PC exercise device because doing her Kegels was enough to strengthen her PC muscles for “sensational orgasms.” Another woman doesn’t like dark chocolate (!) so simply relied on diet changes and fish oil to experience a full range of orgasms. You can even adapt the diet to your needs, depending on how sexually intense you want to feel on any given day. (You’ll find sample menus beginning on page 79.)
Even women who want to decrease their whoopi drive for various reasons can benefit from this knowledge; that is, if they want to tone down their libido and curtail their sexual responsiveness, then by all means, they can do the opposite of what the Orgasmic Diet recommends. But by and large, all the women who have tried the Orgasmic Diet have found that they enjoy feeling like very sexual beings, and they remain on the diet even between relationships. The fortysomething woman from New York who had never experienced a vaginal orgasm before trying the Orgasmic Diet said that she gained a new self-confidence from the diet: “Even walking down the street I noticed that I made eye contact with men more often and noticed a marked difference in their reaction to me. I
even got propositioned on the subway three times in my second week on the diet!” And others have also found that being on the Orgasmic Diet leads to increased male interest in them, perhaps because men can sense the strong sexual interest that the Orgasmic Diet gives these women.
However, the women who will find the Orgasmic Diet an absolute godsend are the millions of women suffering from female sexual dysfunction (FSD). In short, women with low sexual functioning will find the Orgasmic Diet an answer to their prayers, andwomen who already have good sexual function will find the Orgasmic Diet brings them great sexual function. Women are tired of hearing “Take a bubble bath.” They want a straightforward solution to their sexual problems with obvious results, and that solution is the Orgasmic Diet.
Copyright © 2007 by Marrena Lindberg
[This message edited by beach at 11:58 AM, June 6th (Wednesday)]
I don't know if it was the diet or the extreme weight loss, but I know MY libido was increased while on it.
Maybe I should also post in "Sex Addict" thread and see if being asexual is normal during the recovering from SA period....
I feel like sex is not the important
part of my life. I feel ok with once in the every two weeks. Maybe it is
a good thing, I am not involving anyone else and I feel like my body need to
reconnect myself first. I don't want to feel like I am defected. I just don't
need any pressure right now. Although I am feeling like transforming to new me...
[This message edited by beach at 8:00 PM, June 8th (Friday)]
I got upset and started crying, thinking that he would rather be with FOW. I said some things I shouldn't have.
I don't want problems in this area. But, I know that we need to deal with it. I don't know how to talk about this without making him feel bad.
Then I found out he was "working on himself" before he'd start anything so I didn't get crazy. When I found out that, I got crazier.
We were having angry sex, desperate sex, make me nauseous sex, it even seemed like he had been used to doing it so mechanically with the hookers, that he'd forgotten who I was, what I needed, what I liked. It was lousy!
Our MC told us to take sex off the table, period.
We're still struggling with it, but I have noticed in the past month that his responses to my touches are getting to be quicker. We're actually starting to make love (or close to it) again.
I starte something with him this morning and afterward he asked me what "that" was for. I told him I couldn't resist. He questionned my "motivations" for initiating sex for a long time and didn't want to be "reclaimed" any more. He knew I'd never lost him, but I didn't. He felt used, exploited.
In a "normal" marriage, untouched by infidelity, the sex ebbs and flows naturally. With us, it's more starts and stops.
You just started this... give it plenty of time, don't force anything. Maybe the minute one of you feels strange, just stop, don't try to go forward.
I can't tell you how many nights, we just gave up and watched an old movie instead.
but not tonite though.
we had gotten so frosty towards each other the last few weeks, she knew what my problem was, between the sex issues, and the stuff with OM's W actually coming out of the wood works and wanting to be friends w/ FWW again...(that still mystifies me)...anyway...FWW said she was totally broken and would do whatever i wanted in summary.
i guess that's supposed to feel like victory or something. i guess i can start having bad sex. i'm just hoping FWW can have it be something that we are working on to improve along with the rest of our marriage.
I know that feeling. One night we had been discussing our sexual issues. This was during the "no sex" period adivsed by our MC. And he turned to me and said, "why are we talking about this, let's just go do it." It was nasty, loud and angry, but it broke the "fast".
I would advise not to invest a whole lot into it. I mean I went all out a couple times with flowers, scented sheets, mood music only to be terribly disappointed.
I'd say just get it over with and remind her and yourself that the next time will be better, and the time after that and the time after that.
I need some sort of feeling of making progress. The stalemate was killing me.
I would advise not to invest a whole lot into it.
I strongly suspect that if you shift this pursuer/distancer dynamic so that you're the distancer, she'll move into the pursuer role. I don't know if you *want* to play those kind of games in your marriage, but I think that if she got the sense that you've gotten turned off by her attitude and aren't that into her anymore, she'll get more into you. It sounds simplistic. That's because it is. =)
[This message edited by ladyvorkosigan at 8:45 AM, June 12th (Tuesday)]
Oh, BTW, nice guns! and the pistols are pretty impressive too.
not like i was trying to impress anyone either, so i'd take a shower and all, but i just didn't worry about the details of grooming. didn't stink, but wasn't neat either.
Trying to get through things...
Yeah, I know what you mean, even when we did "have sex" immediately after Dday, it was only that. I told H he'd forgotten how to make love after being just sexual with all those women, all those years.
I'm frankly shocked that I didn't have an STD with his background. He even lied to me when we were doing HB. The first thing I asked was did he get checked out for STDSs. He swore he went to a clinic and then did a mail order blood test. He LIED. Then we spent a terrible 2 weeks while both our full tests went through. He was clean, so was I.
I wish I had held off on having sex. I wish I didn't feel like I HAD to give him what he wanted or he'd go elsewhere. I wish I didn't feel like I had to prove something to him all the time. Things have gotten a little better, but they aren't great. It's going to take some getting used to.
I would say don't do anything you don't feel comfortable doing. Our MC was very big on doing the cuddling, massages, kissing and hugging kind of stuff. She said the sex would continue to be bad as long as our relationship was bad.
I can't hear on the tape where he got it from, the tv was on, but I heard the vcr get loaded, the glass has a distinctive click when it's opened and I heard it either rewinding or fast forwarding then very, very faint moans, like he had the volume on 1.
The usual H behavior started after that, I hear him open the lube container, bathroom, cleanup. I'm so disgusted with him right now when he came down to peer over my shoulder and kissed me, I wanted to run.
I would definately let him know I know. That's just me. Can't hold anything in. I've always hated the whole secret masturbation thing, especially when there is M problems. It's like couldn't you come to me??
Sorry again. I understand, our sex, problems are still hanging around too.
Hugs and prayers for you.
~~I Luv Pie~~
He's so adamant when he lies that I can't argue with him. He knows I don't accept what he's said, (why should I?) so we just live with this gulf between us. He doesn't feel it because he's just not that sensitive. He just sees anger. That's the only emotion he recognizes.
I'm going to take care of myself guys. WW is going well and I'm back with a trainer at the gym. Now all I need is a social life without him and we'll be set.
FWW told me that since we hadn't had sex in a while, that tonight, if i wanted to, since our kid was asleep early and the night was young, to get upstairs and get to it. just be quick because being jostled around some would make her still healing from surgery sinuses maybe hurt.
she was even willing to run her fingers thru my hair, a few extra things besides just laying there like a slug.
surprised the hell out of me.
needless to say, i'm in a pretty good mood right now.