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User Topic: For Those Still In The Dark
capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940
Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, April 20th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LOL, Jitterbug, no magic bullet in your answer (aren't we all, always, looking for the magic bullet that will tell us what really happened?), but it helps so much to know I am not the only one and that my reactions and feelings are quite normal for what he's doing to me.

EXACTLY on your first point. I have a source of information. I discovered that one of the ow now disdains fwh. Whoo hooo!!! Good news. But it's been the only mention of fwh in many months, the only clue. On the one hand, I am incredibly glad to have this information. It helps me to know for sure what the situation really is now (gee, wonder why I didn't believe fwh when he told me it was 'awkward' between them?) But on the other hand, am I going to spend the next year or two or three searching for one more little drop of information? I know it's not healthy to put this kind of energy into it, and yet how can you just turn off your need to know THE TRUTH about your own spouse and marriage? It's impossible, unless I divorce him, and we have a huge family to care for. Talk about feeling stuck.

Funny, fwh here also admits that I have reason to doubt him, and yet his hardcore proof of why I should believe him NOW, is because he utters those magic words, "Because I'm telling the truth!" Okay, if laughter is the best medicine, I'm living to be 200. Oh, wait, they meant the good sort of laughter, not the hysterical I can't believe this is my life and you actually expect that to help sort of laughter.

Are these answers you've found making you doubt that he had an A? Or are they making you doubt your ability to discern fact from fiction?
Both, yes and no.... They're making me question whether anything physical went on between him and any of them. There's no way to deny (even though he does) that it was ea's with 1 and 2. They're making me question whether he and #3 really are just that incredibly stupid and self-centered that they really just both behave like with people they have no interest in... And yes, it makes me doubt my ability to judge people, to discern fact from fiction, all of it.

There was a very odd incident with mc1 all but telling me (or so it seemed, not only to me but to those to whom I told the story, including another counselor!) that ow3 was another of his clients. Well, I now have verification from two separate sources that she almost certainly didn't go to see him. Unless I'm now dealing with an underhanded mc who is destroying patient records. So what in the world was he talking about? What was he trying to tell me? Who was 'the young lady' who works in fwh's department and has ow3's exact same issues who was seeing him???? And why did he give such evasive answers when both fwh and I asked him directly?

I am asking myself the same question: how much evidence do I need convince him to tell me the truth? To convince myself? I keep telling myself I already know what I need to: he's a liar and I can never, ever trust him. I know for a fact that he has behaved badly enough to leave me forever wondering and forever unable to be confident he didn't sleep with these women.

Like you, I don't believe he's evil, but scared. Or else he really didn't sleep with any of them but truly has such a twisted view of marriage that he truly can't understand why all of this is so wrong. In which case, he will certainly do it again, when he gets desperate enough to want someone to 'talk to.'

My hope is that once everything was on the table, we could deal with it. But is that really true? If he doesn't have the courage to come clean, what makes me think he'd have the courage to do the long, hard work of repairing the marriage? The fact is, he's watching our marriage circle the drain right now and he's doing very little to stop it.
Everything, exactly as you said! Yes, yes, and yes. He can't even be bothered to read a few pages of one lousy book. He can't be bothered to send me a friendly e-mail from work once in six stinking weeks, because supposedly he doesn't have time. It leaves me feeling that if my name were slutmonkey3, he'd suddenly have a little time. Would that have been too much to save a marriage?

Oh, totally off topic, I caught him in another lie of many years standing. He's from another country. When I met him, he swore he'd 'never leave his country,' blahblahblah, and oh it was this huge sacrifice that he LOVED me SO much that he broke down and left his country, like he swore he'd never do, FOR ME. So here all these years, I've felt all these things about his noble sacrifice and how much he must love me. I guess he forgot his little story back then, because a few months ago, he casually mentioned how he'd considered emigrating to Canada or the US-- and that was before he met me.

I guess if he married me strictly for the green card and citizenship, he would have left years ago when we were separated. But it puts everything in doubt. Did he spend the first four years of our marriage viewing me as a ticket to the States and our marriage as one of convenience? Was our separation really because he decided he couldn't spend his life faking it? And then he came back because he really did miss me?

I just have no way of knowing what's true anymore.


Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011

Posts: 4483 | Registered: Jun 2007
Catsbrains
♀ Member
Member # 18868
Default  Posted: 5:46 AM, April 21st (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

guess if he married me strictly for the green card and citizenship, he would have left years ago when we were separated. But it puts everything in doubt. Did he spend the first four years of our marriage viewing me as a ticket to the States and our marriage as one of convenience? Was our separation really because he decided he couldn't spend his life faking it? And then he came back because he really did miss me?

This reminds me of my situation. My husband and I had a long distance relationship before we married. Since Dday I sometimes wondered if he only moved to Vegas because he was using me as an excuse to escape. His parents told me a few months after we were married that their son had always dreamed of moving to Vegas and getting his dream job. It's funny how just a month after he got the "dream job" he left me. Coincidence anyone?

Oh, I just remembered, his ex-girlfriend of 3 years moved out here 6 months after we were married. Now my head is spinning.

[This message edited by Catsbrains at 5:49 AM, April 21st (Monday)]


BS 37
WS 42
Married 6/6/04
Dday 3/6/08
Divorce Final 4/17/08

Posts: 237 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: Las Vegas
capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, April 21st (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((cats))

Sounds like he never really grew up, probably never really left his ex-girlfriend completely (emotionally speaking, at least).


Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011

Posts: 4483 | Registered: Jun 2007
missingmyheart
♀ Member
Member # 14923
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, April 21st (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How do you guys feel about lying to try to get him to tell me the truth?

God my questions sounds pathetic


Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Utah
capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940
Default  Posted: 2:10 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have no problem with it.


Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011

Posts: 4483 | Registered: Jun 2007
JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294
Default  Posted: 3:42 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't have a problem with it, either . . . anymore.

Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007
JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for you guys. There's a thread in General right now about lie detector tests. Anybody considered asking your WS to take one?


Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

yes, but he would pass...he's a sociopath.


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940
Default  Posted: 10:01 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I did a very little bit of reading on it again today, and I think no matter what the outcome, he'd still insist he had done nothing, and because there is some doubt as to their absolute reliability, and because I know that some people can pass them while lying through their teeth... I'd still be no further ahead than I am now.


Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011

Posts: 4483 | Registered: Jun 2007
JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294
Default  Posted: 5:34 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Forgive me. I've been more crazy with all this than usual lately, and I'm partaking of some (strictly medicinal!) alcohol this evening (er, afternoon). But it occurs to me, having kept up with the threads in General and Recon . . . a LOT of people are (or have been) in the dark and don't even know it.

At least we *know* we're in the dark.

Oh hell. This is all such a load of horseshit, isn't it?

And now I will use the barf emoticon for the first time:


Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007
capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940
Default  Posted: 9:40 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm impressed that you held off using that emoticon all this time! To me, it pretty much sums up my feelings about anything and everything regarding my husband and his friends, I can barely get through three posts without it!

The problem with knowing we're in the dark is that I wonder how many of us will ever recognize it and be sure of it if they finally do tell us the truth. We'll think we're still in the dark.

My husband insists he's told me the absolute truth about everything. Some days, he's actually got me wondering, could fate have played so many cruel tricks on him? So many odd coincidences and timings.


Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011

Posts: 4483 | Registered: Jun 2007
JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294
Default  Posted: 9:54 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My husband insists he's told me the absolute truth about everything. Some days, he's actually got me wondering, could fate have played so many cruel tricks on him? So many odd coincidences and timings.

But you wouldn't be here if you believed him, would you? And neither would I.

All together now:


Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007
capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940
Default  Posted: 11:01 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's just it... it's in my profile. How can four flat tires and weeks of hang-up calls that end when I address her by name, be coincidence? And yet, I was sure one of the ow had been at our mc-- mc himself said things that gave me good reason to think that-- and yet I now have two sources that strongly suggest she really wasn't. So what the heck was the MC talking about? And if I was mistaken about that, maybe the four flat tires really were just bad luck? And yet, I know for a fact that he lied to me about his whereabouts shortly before those flattened tires... my mind just goes round and round, and there's no way to know for sure.


Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011

Posts: 4483 | Registered: Jun 2007
JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, April 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

my mind just goes round and round, and there's no way to know for sure.

I'm right there with you, capri. Our ride is not the typical SI rollercoaster so much as a "Carousel of Darkness," I guess.

Here's the thing, though: when you're an old woman on your deathbed, are you going to be looking back on your life thinking," Gee, I wish I'd spent more time investigating H's lying ass so I'd have gotten the whole truth"?

Not likely, right? Just the opposite, I expect. It will all seem like a preposterous waste of time.

I know this, yet so far anyway, I haven't chosen to get off the carousel.

And it *is* a choice. Even if I decide to stay in my marriage, which I probably will, nobody's holding a gun to my head. I don't have to spend countless hours on the Internet searching for clarity, or perusing phone records, or checking my H's wallet. I'm choosing to do it because it drives me crazy *not* to. Well it also drives me crazy when I do. Round and round and round we go . . . where we get off . . . ? Hell if I know!

But I think I *will* know, and so will you. And in all likelihood, it will have nothing whatever to do with whether or not we get the truth about anybody but ourselves. Then it will be a matter of simply stepping off the carousel and into the light. You know, the kind of light that stays on . . . the kind that comes from within.

I hope this happens, and soon. I'm tired, aren't you?



Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007
capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, April 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jitterbug, I have thought that: when I look back on my life, will I be happy with how I spent my time? Not really. I keep telling myself the old standby: If you weren't dealing with this garbage, what would you be doing? Now go do it! I try to follow that advice.

But at the same time, to know something is wrong and not try to find out what is insane in its own way. I do wish I'd put the keylogger on immediately when he acted so suspicious about the first secret e-mail account. I wish I'd spent the time then. And if the day comes when the truth comes out, I suspect I will also feel angry with myself if I didn't do anything to try to find out. I'd be accused by others of burying my head in the sand, and they'd be right. It's what I did the first time around.

It really is a lose-lose situation. What I believe is right, and what I want is just to walk away from it all, but I fear the financial disaster that would follow.


Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011

Posts: 4483 | Registered: Jun 2007
Catsbrains
♀ Member
Member # 18868
Default  Posted: 1:30 AM, April 25th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well..even after finding that horrendous email..I still feel I am in the dark. I don't know what happened...except that he had "a stream of pussy coming his way." He still denies and I have no closure. WTF?

The only closure I have is that I got the D and took him to the cleaners but that doesn't answer my questions. I wish I had kept him in the house and monitored him so I would have the conclusive evidence I so desperately need and will never have. Just feeling like he threw me away like trash and I don't know for who/whom.


BS 37
WS 42
Married 6/6/04
Dday 3/6/08
Divorce Final 4/17/08

Posts: 237 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: Las Vegas
JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294
Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, April 25th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I do wish I'd put the keylogger on immediately when he acted so suspicious about the first secret e-mail account. I wish I'd spent the time then.

I hear that loud and clear. I could have easily gotten the evidence I needed at the time. I'm sure of it. But this was long before I found SI, and I was so bloody stupid about how these things work. In fact, I was so stupid that it didn't even occur to me that I *needed* evidence, per se. I actually thought he'd just TELL me when I asked.

And if the day comes when the truth comes out, I suspect I will also feel angry with myself if I didn't do anything to try to find out.

Yes, I'd feel the same. I talk a good game about moving on, letting it go, not wasting any more time on it, but here I am, so. . . . .

It really is a lose-lose situation. What I believe is right, and what I want is just to walk away from it all, but I fear the financial disaster that would follow.

And how would getting the truth change that? I mean, if your gut instinct proves right (and it probably is), would you have hope that your marriage could be salvaged?



Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007
JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, April 25th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He still denies and I have no closure. WTF?

Seeing that email had to have been a huge shock and extremely hurtful.

((Cat))

Being that you're divorced now, it's probably going to be next-to-impossible to get closure by knowing the whole story, I'm sorry to say. Are you in IC? If not, please consider it. It may be the healthiest--and only--way you can get closure and recover from this.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007
capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, April 25th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And how would getting the truth change that? I mean, if your gut instinct proves right (and it probably is), would you have hope that your marriage could be salvaged?

Well, I think you're the one who said it (but regardless of who said it, it applies), I keep hoping that if I get enough proof to force him to admit or tell me straight what happened, we can actually sit down and deal with it. And probably that's not going to happen, is it?

I guess it's like the story of the policeman coming to the door to say your spouse died, but you don't need to know how. After all, knowing wouldn't change anything in that situation, either, would it? As it was phrased on another forum, I just need to know the truth of what my marriage is or was. I think it was this thread I mentioned I now wonder what parts of my marriage were really him and me, and how much was him and her. I suspect he wore a goatee all those years after SHE said it would look good, when he never grew one for me. I started wondering how much input she had on the first house we bought. (Probably none, really, but now I'll always wonder, every little thing, how much did she know, how much was her input?)

[This message edited by capri at 1:02 PM, April 25th (Friday)]


Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011

Posts: 4483 | Registered: Jun 2007
capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, April 25th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((cat)))

One of the things I'm learning from my husband is that even when I lie to him, he acts as if he 'knows.' I guess being a liar, he recognizes it? I think at a certain point (and I'm trying to practice what I preach, but it's hard), you just have to look at those words about 'a stream of pussy coming my way' and know that he was up to no good. If he wasn't getting some already, he very obviously planned to, with no regard to you or his marriage. Clearly, whether he'd already jumped in that stream or not it was only a matter of time, and he was not husband material.


Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011

Posts: 4483 | Registered: Jun 2007
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