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User
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Topic: For Those Still In The Dark
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dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142 |  Posted: 2:26 PM, April 25th (Friday), 2008 |     |
I agree that at least WE KNOW that we are "in the dark" here.
My one regret is not spending the extra $ to get a hardware key logger which I could have removed/put on...at will.
When eblaster failed me, this one would have kicked in. 
Another thing I want to bring up here is the number of situations where when the WS was confronted with videos, etc. -- IRREFUTABLE PROOF -- there were still spouses who steadfastly DENIED EVERYTHING.
I guess the bottom line for me now is:
Cut my losses!
(Though, like Jitter, I do occasionally *indulge* in a wave of EXCAVATIONS, etc.)
I'm fighting on 2 fronts:
Marital infidelity
Financial infidelity
They usually go, hand in hand.
Since I don't give a rat's ass about the punk anymore because "it is what it is and not what we had hoped it would be", the former is a moot point; however, the IRS can have a field day with the financials.
He acts so smooth, so unruffled, so suave about his deception & lies.
Ahhh, we shall see, we shall see!
~WH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~
Posts: 25123 | Registered: Sep 2005 | JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294 | | Posted: 8:11 AM, April 26th (Saturday), 2008 | |
Well, I think you're the one who said it (but regardless of who said it, it applies), I keep hoping that if I get enough proof to force him to admit or tell me straight what happened, we can actually sit down and deal with it.
Yeah, I was at least one of the ones who said it. I asked because you said that if it weren't for finances, you'd leave, so I thought something might have changed in terms of your expectations.
And probably that's not going to happen, is it?
This is the million-dollar question! I keep thinking that if everything came out, he'd *have* to feel relief. It must be *miserable* for him to live this way, etc., etc. If I think too long about it, though, I suspect I'm just projecting. He hasn't changed anything as a result of the lies I've caught him in already, after all, so realistically, why would I expect him to deal with the ones I haven't caught him in?
I guess it's like the story of the policeman coming to the door to say your spouse died, but you don't need to know how. After all, knowing wouldn't change anything in that situation, either, would it?
That analogy is about the best one I've read on this forum. It had such a profound effect on me that, the day I read it, I shared it with my H. I was *so* sure it would open his eyes.
Didn't make a dent. NOTHING seems to make a dent.
A couple of weeks ago I emailed him what I thought was a very articulate essay about lying. I *rarely* email anything to him, so I thought this might get his attention more so than if I'd just printed it out.
He came home early from work that day and said he'd received the email and that he "would read it." Would?!? He couldn't take five minutes and read it right then?!? I thought this, but I didn't say anything.
Four days later, he *still* hadn't brought it up. I finally got furious--and he had to have known I would be--but I may as well have been talking to a tree.
I mean really, what in hell is WRONG with these people? I know my H is a passive-aggressive conflict avoider. I think myself silly trying to understand him. But what am I? His shrink?!?
If the situation were reversed--if he were telling me that he had this HUGE problem with our marriage that was so serious he was thinking of divorcing me--I'd be scrambling all over the place to address it, to fix it, to at least *talk* about it.
He does . . . just the opposite. And if I thought it was because he simply didn't give a damn, I'd walk away. Am I kidding myself? Maybe he really *doesn't* give a damn. And ultimately, what difference do the "why's" make when the results are the same?
Okay here comes another barf emoticon: 
Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007 | JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294 | | Posted: 8:21 AM, April 26th (Saturday), 2008 | |
I'm fighting on 2 fronts:
Marital infidelity
Financial infidelity
They usually go, hand in hand.
dreamlife, I'm dealing with financial infidelity as well. About a year ago, I demanded to see all his financial records, including his checkbook (we have separate accounts--ahem). I was floored to see how much money he takes out in cash every month.
To his credit, he's made an effort to be more open about his spending. Still, he hasn't explained where all that money went. Scratch that. He *has* explained. But he was lying. 
Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007 | Sodown
♀ Member
Member # 2477 | | Posted: 1:06 PM, April 26th (Saturday), 2008 | |
I was looking through these posts here and can relate so much with you all. The thing about them never coming clean is that you are in the dark completly. Then you question yourself on things the little things that point towards an affair but not enough to get them to admit or outright KNOW they are cheating on you at that particular time.
I mean can all those little things coincidences add up to bad luck, misfortune on the SWS side or are they the part of the bigger picture, you know the little strokes of paint that create the picture itself.
Of course they lie and gaslight us like crazy hoping that we will believe them but the things keep happening and the gut keeps gnawing at you eitherway. If you cannot make since of it than most probable it is the simplet explanation rather than the coincidence situation They are cheating and don't want us to catch them outright, some BW's will leave for what looks like lipsticks marks on the shirt of her H and some will not. It all goes with what is going on in OUR HEAD at that time. I have heard some doozies out of my WS mouth but he will never admit to cheating. I can't belive he is so cruel as he knows it effects me almost everyday and little coincidences keep right on happening to me just the same. I ask him about them and he says I don't know or some other stupid completly idiotic excuse is offereed to me. Do I want to believe the lesser of the two evils, your damn right I do, but my gut says NO!
A dog will not tell you he has fleas but you can tell by the way he scratches. Graham Willets (Thanks to Treharris Mid Glamorgan)
Posts: 4796 | Registered: Oct 2003 | From: anywhere but here... | JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294 | | Posted: 5:14 PM, April 26th (Saturday), 2008 | |
I can't belive he is so cruel as he knows it effects me almost everyday and little coincidences keep right on happening to me just the same.
I said this exact thing to my H about being cruel, Sodown. You'd have thought I accused him of strangling bunnies. Cruel?!? HIM?!? He just doesn't get it.
I ask him about them and he says I don't know or some other stupid completly idiotic excuse is offereed to me. Do I want to believe the lesser of the two evils, your damn right I do, but my gut says NO!
And like dreamlife wrote above, sometimes they're confronted with irrefutable proof and still deny it. I read a story--I think it was on this forum--where the W walked in on her WH and his OW in *bed,* and the WH tried to convince her she was hallucinating the whole thing.
I always wondered what would have happened if she'd taken a gun out and shot him a few times. You know, since she was only "hallucinating . . ." 
Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007 | capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940 | | Posted: 5:40 PM, April 26th (Saturday), 2008 | |
Jitterbug, it is unreal reading your posts. I SWEAR we are married to the same man. I also told him the policeman analogy. I think he admitted yeah, it would bother him not to know, and that was the end of it. He just keeps telling me he's telling me the truth. Well, maybe he didn't really sleep with any of them, but obviously he's told me a lot of lies, so that proves right there that he KNEW he was doing something wrong, or he wouldn't have lied about it. (Oh, wait, I forgot-- it's just that I 'wouldn't have understood.' )
My husband packed one of the books in his work bag for months, but never once cracked it open.
Like you, if my husband were talking about divorcing me, if my husband had refused to have sex with me for the last 5 months, I'd be SCRAMBLING, I'd want to talk, I'd want to fix things.
Like you, some days I think he must 'care' in whatever way he's capable because he keeps bringing me roses and making me breakfast and jumping to do any little thing he can for me.
But there's just no more room under that carpet. And he refuses to finally start cleaning it out. 
Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011
Posts: 4480 | Registered: Jun 2007 | JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294 | | Posted: 1:46 PM, April 27th (Sunday), 2008 | |
But there's just no more room under that carpet. And he refuses to finally start cleaning it out.
Capri, is your (our?  ) H this way with other kinds of problems? Does he sweep everything negative under the carpet--particularly when he's done something wrong or made a mistake--or is it just the marital stuff?
One thing I've realized about my H over the years is that he has a lot of difficulty admitting he's been wrong about anything. One of a gabillion examples: he once got a ticket for parking in the emergency lane while he ran into a store for a minute. He seemed genuinely outraged by this. As if the police officer should have given him a break . . . um, why? Because he's him? I have no idea.
But if he can't admit to *himself* that parking in the emergency lane was wrong, I can kinda see how admitting to me that he boinked a 20-year-old would present him with problems, you know?
Yeah. Everything under the carpet. I hate the carpet. Really hate the carpet.
Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007 | capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940 | | Posted: 8:16 PM, April 27th (Sunday), 2008 | |
Capri, is your (our? ) H this way with other kinds of problems?
We'll have to call him/them Mr. Jittercap or Mr. Capribug!
Well, that's a good question. He's very much shove it under the rug, but only marital issues spring to mind. I'm trying to think what other mistakes he's made. He's mostly so perfect, you know!
Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011
Posts: 4480 | Registered: Jun 2007 | Catsbrains
♀ Member
Member # 18868 | | Posted: 5:44 AM, April 28th (Monday), 2008 | |
Mine couldn't admit he was wrong either.
He met the girlfried before me when he was married to his 1st wife. He says they were just friends, that he told all of his problems to her, including his "supposed" problems with his wife. He started dating her a month after he left the 1st wife. I told him this was definitely an emotional affair and he only left the wife because he had the "friend" waiting in the wings. He denies this of course, but he knows he's wrong (or does he?) and that I know he is wrong. He just won't admit it.
I think he did the same thing to me. It is the only way of explaing how he could leave me so suddenly and cut me off completely. He already had someone else lined up. Poor girl.
BS 37
WS 42
Married 6/6/04
Dday 3/6/08
Divorce Final 4/17/08
Posts: 237 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: Las Vegas | JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294 | | Posted: 10:34 AM, April 28th (Monday), 2008 | |
He started dating her a month after he left the 1st wife. I told him this was definitely an emotional affair and he only left the wife because he had the "friend" waiting in the wings. He denies this of course, but he knows he's wrong (or does he?) and that I know he is wrong. He just won't admit it.
Cats, I'd say the chances are pretty good that he had a PA with this "friend."
I think he did the same thing to me. It is the only way of explaing how he could leave me so suddenly and cut me off completely. He already had someone else lined up. Poor girl.
I'm betting you're right that he had someone waiting in the wings. This is so-o-o-o sounding like a pattern with him. And that's his tragedy. He'll wade for as long as he can in the shallow "stream of endless pussy," never having set foot in what could have been an ocean. His loss.
Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007 | dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142 | | Posted: 11:15 PM, April 28th (Monday), 2008 | |
What I find so amazing about being "in the dark" NOW is how he kept *stressing* that he was an OPEN BOOK when we were dating for one year, +! 
Fucker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
~WH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~
Posts: 25123 | Registered: Sep 2005 | JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294 | | Posted: 7:57 AM, April 29th (Tuesday), 2008 | |
What I find so amazing about being "in the dark" NOW is how he kept *stressing* that he was an OPEN BOOK when we were dating for one year, +!
Yeah, dreamlife. There are times I become so untrusting that I think he's not just lying, he's saying the exact *opposite* of what is true.
My H has this weird habit of telling me what is "NOT" happening--out of the blue, especially when we're talking about our marriage. E.g.: "I'm not just saying this to make you feel better, but . . ."
First thing that pops into my jaded brain? He's just saying this to try to make me feel better. . . .
Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007 | JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294 | | Posted: 9:34 AM, April 29th (Tuesday), 2008 | |
Just wanted to share this link to a book review of "The Gaslight Effect" I read this morning:
http://www.sonderbooks.com/Nonfiction/gaslight_effect.html
Anybody read it?
NOTE TO CAPRI: Here's what she has to say about "Glamour Gaslighters":
If you're involved with a Glamour Gaslighter, you may be nodding in recognition-- yet still feeling confused. You can see the behavior, but you're still not quite sure why it's such a problem.
Well, I can tell you why: At least some--and maybe all--of the time, your gaslighter is completely involved in proving to himself what a romantic guy he is. That's his version of the gaslighter's need to be right. he looks like he's relating to you, but he's really only involved with himself. The actions he chooses to fulfill his needs may seem loving, attentive, and satisfying, but his lack of genuine connection with you leaves you feeling lonely.
And the "Good Guy Gaslighter":
He'll do his share--and more--of the household and relationship work. Yet you never quite feel as though he's fully participating. And when you ask for emotional reassurance or try to connect with him more deeply, he'll look at you blankly. Why, you wonder, are you so selfish and demanding?
I am so getting this book!
Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007 | dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142 | | Posted: 6:25 PM, April 29th (Tuesday), 2008 | |
Jitter, sounds like a *great* book! 
I have learned to assume that when my WH tells me something is right -- its really left, etc.
And, also of course, to simply ASSUME that *every thing* he tells me is a lie, lie, LIE...makes MY life easier to understand & deal with, especially with respect to his convoluted universe where he delights in Mind Fucking, AKA "duping delight".
This is the favorite game played by sociopaths and predators on unsuspecting people who trust them.
I have actually heard him tell his 80+ year old father the most outrageous LIES about his job, his "bad health", etc.
Then after WH hangs up the phone, he'll laugh mirthfully about duping my FIL!
~WH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~
Posts: 25123 | Registered: Sep 2005 | JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294 | | Posted: 7:10 PM, April 29th (Tuesday), 2008 | |
Then after WH hangs up the phone, he'll laugh mirthfully about duping my FIL!
Good grief, dreamlife, that's abhorrent. My H lies and gaslights, to be sure, but he's never been *proud* of it.
Um. I don't *think.* 
Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007 | capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940 | | Posted: 9:29 PM, April 29th (Tuesday), 2008 | |
That really is abhorrent!
Mind you, I should have gotten a clue years ago when fwh bragged about how he was smarter than his sister because he just lied to his mother and everybody went away happy, whereas his sister told the truth and got everyone riled up. But I somehow didn't really think that meant that HE did things he shouldn't and lied about it.
Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011
Posts: 4480 | Registered: Jun 2007 | 2yrsinthedark
♀ Member
Member # 16278 | | Posted: 10:47 PM, April 29th (Tuesday), 2008 | |
I was wondering, are any of your WS worried that you might have an A? I think mine is kind of paranoid lately. I started a new job (lots of men work there) and my moods toward him havent helped. Although I reassure him that I wont, sometimes I feel like letting believe that I might or that I am. Although bogus, letting him feel just a bit of what I feel.
"Trust but verify"
Me-44 BS
Him-44 WS
Married 18 yrs
Dday 8/25/07
two yr EA (maybe longer, maybe w/ more than one)
4 Kids 15,13,8,8
Posts: 378 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: TX | JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294 | | Posted: 9:55 AM, April 30th (Wednesday), 2008 | |
I was wondering, are any of your WS worried that you might have an A?
I don't think it would ever cross my H's mind that I might have an A. His ego, fragile though it may be, is just that big.
Although I reassure him that I wont, sometimes I feel like letting believe that I might or that I am. Although bogus, letting him feel just a bit of what I feel.
I can see how this might give you some gratification in the short-term, but it won't do anything to make your M better and would likely make it worse. I do understand the impulse, though.
Maybe we should all send each other a dozen red roses with an unsigned card. When H asks where they came from, we say, "Gosh, honey, I thought they were from you. . . ."
Or better yet: "What roses? *I* don't see any roses."
Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007 | 2yrsinthedark
♀ Member
Member # 16278 | | Posted: 8:08 PM, April 30th (Wednesday), 2008 | |
LOL, Jitterbug for all the gaslighting he as put me through, that would be perfect. As tempted as i have been to let him believe, I dont have the heart for it. Hope everyone his doing ok tonight. 
"Trust but verify"
Me-44 BS
Him-44 WS
Married 18 yrs
Dday 8/25/07
two yr EA (maybe longer, maybe w/ more than one)
4 Kids 15,13,8,8
Posts: 378 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: TX | missingmyheart
♀ Member
Member # 14923 | | Posted: 12:01 PM, May 1st (Thursday), 2008 | |
So I have been doing ok. Pain, i thought had disapaited a bit, yesterday driving home from mil place after helping her with a few things and i had the radio on. The song by Brad Paisley, she is everything to me was on...I have listened to this song a million times, then for some reason yesterday i just start crying... i just want to be everything to him... thought i was...
Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Utah | | Topic Posts: 832 | |
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