SurvivingInfidelity.com® > I Can Relate
Spouses with Same Gender APs.
I belong here too. Like someone said earlier, finding your spouce with a same sex AP is both harder and easier. Easier because the drive to compete with the AP is gone and harder because well you just can't compete.
My XWH AP was so god damn smug about it too, like he was going to "save" him.
I understand what you mean.
Does the AP go to your home or is this what your WH mentions to you?
I despise those SMUG creeps!
Yeah the OP/AP was a smug little 18 yo....and they spent a LOT of time together at our house leading up to the A. I will not be able to keep the house. I can't afford payments, can't refi til divorce is final, and won't have enough equity to weather the predicted 10% home value loss over the next year. My dogs and I will have to be here to maintain the house til it sells, then scramble to find a place to stay. Ugh. So tired of this...
My WH is still doling out the $ and keeping me in the dark. I just have to bide my time until...its prudent for me to file for D.
Its so hard to keep hanging on ~but I know I just have to!
And, I'm so pissed off tonite after reading his lying ass e-mail!
Here's a different perspective......I don't judge what anyone has ever had to deal with or is dealing with, but here's an experience from a child (now adult) of a bi-parent.
I'm now in my 40's and have "known" that my dad was bi since I was 7 yrs. old.
Didn't know the term for it back then but we must have heard them argue. He left for about 4 days, then came back.
t/j....funny story.....we must have heard my parents arguing (presumambly when my dad came out to my mom), and the words homosexual and bisexual were tossed around.
My sister who is 1 year older than me precociously explained to me that "homosexual" was when people had sex at home and bisexual was when people had sex b/f one was to leave on a trip. LOL
He officially came out to us kids when I was 19, but, by then it was only a formality since we had "known" somehow since early childhood.
My parents are still together and have been for almost 47 years!
It's out in the open, he is still "active" (I'm assuming since we don't talk about it), but there are no secrets.
Whatever my parents did to work it all out, I have no idea. But they did.
Probably more than half of the pain of infidelity is the secrets, lies, betrayal.
My mom doesn't have to deal with that since it's out in the open.
She accepts him as he is, loves him as he is, and allows him to explore his "other" side.
Totally weird, I know. I don't know if I could ever have done that if I was in that situation.
But.....I'm glad that they did not divorce. We did have a fine and fun upbringing and I don't know what our lives would have looked like if they had divorced.....most likely my mom would have moved back to her home country in Europe since she had only been here for 7 years when she first found out.
I have had the rare and unusual conversation with my dad about this.....he loves my mom, but he also wants to have sex with men. He doesn't ever want a relationship with another man, just the occasional encounter with them. Most of the time, this was tmi for me and very uncomfortable but I was trying to learn more and had initiated these conversations.
We have a truly unique family. We do love each other and also like each other. We've remained close all through the years.
I accept my dad. I love him.
But, I'm more in awe of my mom. How does she do it? Is she stupid, or is it love.....or co-dependence or is it just what you did back then (70's)?
I will never know.
I do know that if my mother should die b/f my dad.....he will never get involved with a man....he will become a hermit....him and his dog.
I don't know why I decided to post this....maybe just to shed a light on another perspective, not sure.
I'm the BS and sometimes I kinda feel like dealing with a same sex OP would be easier than an OW, but, again, would never judge as I know the pain of betrayal is very deep. (with same sex OP, you don't go through all the comparing etc.) But it hurts no matter what. It's still a betrayal, and of course a complete shock for those that would have had absolutely no idea that their life partner would even entertain such ideas.
(((hugs to all who are suffering)))
Thanks for sharing that. I think generally, while unconventional, some people can work in that arrangement as long as there are no bullshit and lies. And the person is safe.
But it is hard to know if the non bi partner is just putting up with it for love or if they are really okay with it. I've known of both situations. Generally it was more often that the woman was bisexual and the husband was okay with it.
Sex is messy though because at the heart of it emotions come with the package most of the time.
I think sometimes people really are bisexual. and most of them end up in heterosexual marriages for obvious reasons, its easier and there are more heterosexuals. But in the case of SS infidelity a lot of times the person has been in some form of denial about their sexual preference for again obvious reasons. The world hasn't made it very easy to be gay. So while the OP may not be around or last forever the sexual preference most often will be.
[This message edited by Syzy at 6:09 PM, August 5th (Friday)]
I made it crystal clear at the onset that I don't SHARE my H.
Not with another man or with another woman.
WH agreed and I believed him.
"Exclusive" means just *that* in my book.
I am looking to share notes with everyone because I have no proof.
I have been married to my H for over a decade. When we first met, our sex life was very intense and wonderful. People often commented on our kissing fests that we "needed to get a room".
Still, one time a frenemy of his said, "He's gay you know". Well, I had just ended an R with a bi man, and this WAS NOT GAY, at least that's what I thought at the time. I completely ignored that remark. When I asked my H about it, he would say that guy was trying to steal me or that he was commenting about a time my H could have gotten this one girl who had a bad tempered X and decided to decline her offer. I let it go.
One time around then, when I was at work, he let a gay man buy him beers. Nothing more. He also had a couple of sexually ambiguous friends. I would comment sometimes that he was gay throughout the years as a joke. He always got very angry. I stopped as I realized it wasn't a funny joke. He said I was going too far.
My H seemed to have issues with alcohol, so we moved to the suburbs and set up a normal life away from the party scene and got married.
There were a couple things about our sex life that seemed a little strange. First of all, he did NOT do quickies. Just didn't. And he was only 21.
I thought it was strange, too, that he never really initiated sex, never came over to me with a hard on in the middle of the night or first thing in the morning. When I discovered how to have multiples, he actually got really angry with me. He said, great, now it's going to take forever. When I told him later how much this hurt my feelings, he said it was already taking an hour for me to climax. But he hated quickes?? I was getting really confused. I lost the ability to have multiples because of my axiety over the confrontation. I would frequently just take care of things myself, this was very normal and he would usually play on the computer or do something else. He also said that it was important for me to initiate so that he felt wanted. This is what made me think of NPD, as I read that is a common feature of needing to feel that the woman is a "whore".
So, other things, we've NEVER had sex in the morning. He likes dark. Got rid our our "sex light", too, gave it to our dd, despite my feelings being hurt and also being confused as to why he was getting rid of it.
He would never have sex at a guest house, a family members house, or in a motel. When we travelled abroad, I remember having sex once there.
Despite these few issues, our sex life has been very satisfying, and sometimes I would think about what his frenemy had said and laugh, etc.
Then, about 3 years ago, he began having ED issues. The frequency changed to almost never. He had started taking Kratom for "back pain" and complained of depression. He got a vasectomy.
It became hit or miss if he could achieve orgasm. He started asking for more blow jobs. At one point his doctor prescribed dexedrine, which did help a little, but made him very angry.
He switched to vicodin and paxil which only made our sex life worse.
During this time, he started to amp up severe Passive aggressive behaviors, including withholding sex, not talking to me, putting me down, doing "covert" absusive, insulting things - you know, things only "I" would know were hurtful. He would deny, deny deny.
I began to suspect that he was seeing someone. But nothing turned up.
This year, it all reached a peak, no sex, massive passive aggression, complete emotional withdrawl, doubling his vicodin usage (double the safe limit) and finding more to finish out the month, doubling paxil.
It ended with a complete shut down of our sexual relationship. He said he was having a mid life crisis. I had always cut his hair. He said I made him look like a "dweeb" for cutting it so short, he changed his style, started pulling away. I had always cut his hair, it was our thing. He refused to wear the cologne I got him because he said it was "gay".
During this time, I felt he might be interested in someone at work, a female. I questioned him and he again denied. but, I found out that he had had fantasies about other boys during high school.
One time, he was holding me, looking at the ground, shaking and sweating after I had asked him if there was anything he wanted to share with me. I had found out that he had looked up his first girlfriend on facebook. No contact, just looked her up and deleted the evidence. I still have no idea what that was all about.
During this time, we've had a lot of stress. I have changed. I can't say that these behaviors have happened in a vacuum. He's had a lot of responsibility and had to take care of everything. His stress level has been a 10 for several years now.
He told me that he was singing sexual songs by Jack black to the guy across his cubicle. to "gross him out" and whenever I heard what he had said to this co-worked it made me feel uneasy, and that the remarks were inappropriate. I asked him to stop, but he went underground with it instead.
He watched the movie "Bruno" like 15 times during this time and shared moments with the coworker. He also watched and shared a music vid called "at the gay bar" on youtube. Additionally, he watched the Tim and Eric show from adult swim which has a very gay undercurrent.
I confronted him time and again and he said it was normal for guys to do this. He tried to make me feel guilty saying that I was making him feel bad.
His father is very homophobic. They are/were fundamentalist christians (my H left as a teen).
I think that my H may have the tendencies of or be a repressed homosexual. From what I'm reading, this is just going to get worse. I don't fear him acting on this, ever, but I do fear having a sexless marriage, being the object of more and more passive aggression, and having to deal with EAs.
He is also getting more and more misogynistic, controlling and withdrawn as the months go by. He never used to put women down but now they are called bitch on a regular basis.
Any insight or if this sounds like something you've been through, especially the little things that may not be official but are commonly found with repressed homosexuality, I would love to know. At first I thought it was NPD, now I feel that there are many issues at hand here.
[This message edited by Agate at 11:21 PM, August 22nd (Monday)]
It's so hard to tell based on what you typed. Those problems can be with either a gay, str8 or bi spouse who is cheating.
I do know that str8 men do NOT look, think, or fantasize about other men. They just don't.
I believe my WS to be bi. Our sex life was pretty good for the 18 years we were together. It wasn't at a level I wanted it to be (but he WAS having affairs...having to keep us all sexually happy must have been exhausting!).
WS did blame me for "wanting too much sex", the sex was very vanilla...just kinda of "get it over with" is how I felt at the end. We were very adventurous most of the marriage...so the vanilla sex was a clue for me. Only one time do I remember he couldn't get an erection.
Most of his passive-agressiveness was centered on making me feel bad. He would ignore me, was never home and when I would "call him" on it...he said I was a bitch or mean or "well, YOU just aren't nice enough to me".
He did everything he could to never be at home. Travelled for work, took extra work, always "running errands"...just managed to not be at home.
The only other clue I had was that he had no male friends. The only past male friends had come out of the closet, and when they did that, he no longer had any contact with them. He got along with women so much better. He had nothing in common with str8 men...so no friendships.
I read somewhere that when someone has no "old" friends...you know there is a problem. Most of us "normal" people have had long term friendships. If someone can't maintain a long tern friendship with someone of the same sex, that's a big red flag there is something else going on.
My WS also had a homophobic step dad, and a just generally shitty childhood.
The bottom line that I saw is that I don't think my WS had the ability to REALLY connect with me emotionally. He saw me as something, not someone. If I had an emotion, he simply didn't want to hear it or deal with it. Everything felt very superficial, a surface relationship with nothing deep every going on.
The deep stuff was the gay stuff...and he made sure I didn't know anything about THAT.
Does this help at all??
Yes, that does help. I too feel kept out. Maybe that is just emotionally unavailable, NPD, this person at work is his major supply right now. Doesn't have to be any deeper than that with these deep types of personality disorder issues. I know that I am out of the loop and don't really want back in. That's probably enough. Sick of hearing gay innuendo, which could just be passive aggression, since he knows that is hurtful to me. I think I finally had a deal breaker yesterday, so it it time to just 180 and detach. Thank you for taking the time to share your experience, they do sound similar in some ways.
Looking for support. Basically he admitted to a non gay EA. He wants to have sex for the first time in 4 months. I know he's been not having gay sex, but I am so mad that I had to basically say that this EA was ok, blah, blah, blah.
I really would like some feedback. I know for a fact he's NPD because he is super creeping me out. For instance, singing love songs I picked out (in front of the kids of course).
I called my Mom and begged to live with her. I think we might be trapped for a while.
google "BonKaye"...you can also e-mail her.
She has tremendous insight & has many books as a straight wife.
I'm sorry you are going through this.
Agate...without more details...it's hard to say what's going on. I will be honest with you, where there is smoke, there is generally fire. He might admit the EA, but *most* of the time there is a PA already going on. Men are very focused sexually, and you put 2 men together and the PA start very quickly, and are more likely to also be random.
I was in a Yahoo Support Group for women who wanted to remain M to their gay/bi husbands. Many were in open marriages...not for me...and at the time we were in R and my WS said he wanted me and me only. So I tried.
Search on Yahoo...there are many support groups on there for women in our situation. It happens all the time, unfortunately. PM me if you want, I'll be glad to help any way I can.
[This message edited by danny924 at 9:14 AM, February 19th (Sunday)]
I'm not sure what to say about children. My husband had multiple affairs, one with a girl he met online, the rest were oral encounters with men that he found on craigs list, I discovered the OW emails, but saH actually confessed to me about the men. Its been almost 2 years since dday and I'm still having trouble with intamacy and sex. I trigger a lot and although I'm not proud, I have lost my cool in front of my daughter. She is 8, and I'm praying she doesn't get the "man" thing. I think she is more fixated on the actul fact that daddy cheated. I guess maybe when she is a grown up she might share with me. I won't be with her father if there is any slip ups though. I refuse, he either gets recovery and reconciling right the first time or I'm done, here is to hoping he can do the job:)
I'm posting on D/S about drama with my WS and his boyfriend. I tried R, but he was unable to be strong enough to get through it. Good luck, it's so hard....but there are several of us in your exact situation!
I'm having such a hard time with this. My WH admits to 4 CL oral sex encounters with crossdresser males. He swears that he is NOT gay or bi and that he hooked up with CD's because it made him feel less like he was cheating on me if it was with a man.
Others are saying that he CANNOT be straight and have these kinds of encounters. That he MUST be at least bi.
Does anyone else have any insight into this?? I want to believe him when he says he is straight. Is this possible??
My stbx claims to be 100% hetero but I found pics of him wearng my nylons, panties and nightgowns. His user id on two websites says bihub and in one chat session with a guy he talks about how it turn him on to think about sucking a rock hard cock. Does't this sound bi to you?
He is a major homophobe but is a cross dresser and has been since before our marriage. I found the pics he sent to a camchat whore.
Now i think is involved with a coworker in a bisexual relationship. He won't admit to anything but the camchats with the whores that i found emails to but I have so much more evidence. I was his "normal" for 12 years and now he may have moved his lover into our home as a "need a roommate" situation to pay the mortgage. He denies being gay or bi but I have seen the pics of him with a dildo up his behind.
I no longer know or understand who this man is that I fell in love with 12 years ago. He swears to me that "he has never touched another woman" but that just makes me wonder if he has been with a man during that time.
My first h was/is gay. I found out 7 yrs into marriage and we were together for 10 yrs. I just wanted to let those of you who are currently hurting and living with discovery, that you are not alone. Love cannot change someone's orientation. There are support groups now, there weren't 15 yrs ago. Contact support, be good to yourself and know that you can survive. Don't stay in the closet with your h, it is a painful place to be.
Hugs to all of you.
Yes, there is an estimated 4 million straight wives...so that is a LOT of us.
Just some thoughts here:
If a man seeks out a cross dresser male, its pretty clear he wants to have sex with a person that has a PENIS, period.
You can throw a dress over it, but if its got a male sex organ which a W does not have...what does that tell you?