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Men only - Timeline to regain respect for FWW?

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shyguy posted 8/15/2008 13:15 PM

Hard to breath. Please read the healing library. it is to your left in the yellow column. I am sorry you are here. It has helped me tremendoulsy to read here. It can help you decide whether to end the M or stay together. You make the decisions.

Weightless posted 9/2/2008 13:25 PM

I still have the "dirty whore" thoughts about my wife. D-day was almost 2 months ago. I even called her a whore a couple of times when my anger got the best of me , even though there really wasn't very much sex in her affair, it was 95% text messaging. It has more to do with the total disrespect she showed me at the time she was involved with him.

I still look at her sometimes, like at innocent times when she is bending over to get something, and think about how I would look at her before when she did that, and think, "wow my wife is hot, and that hot ass is just for me." Now, of course, I can't look at her the same way. I think about the way she went over to his apartment the first time, blew him, and left(sort of like a whore). I think about the way she said to me in a text conversation "I wish you wouldn't focus so much on sex, sex is the least of our problems" as she was walking to his apartment to fuck him. She had declined sex with me the night before because she knew she was going to fuck him the next morning and "didn't want to feel like a slut." Huh? 11 hours, 24 hours, what's the difference? Guess what honey, you were a slut at the time.

She is remorseful, and we are doing pretty well getting through it, but I definitely have not gained back the respect I used to have for her two months in. She seems polluted.

Jimi40 posted 9/2/2008 13:39 PM

Wow, well, d-day was July 05, and I still have most of the same feelings as the rest of you. I don't believe she can make healthy friendships, I believe she will do it again, I am in a bad place right now though, and this could all change in a heartbeat.

cani4give posted 9/3/2008 22:50 PM

Sure, we have some good days. But man oh man do the bad days suck royally.

[This message edited by cani4give at 6:45 PM, July 6th (Monday)]

wincing_at_light posted 9/4/2008 23:22 PM

I read Jimi's post and realize (have realized for awhile) that I'm in the same place, and as far out as we are -- the place where the A has receded into the background for all intents and purposes -- chances are it *isn't* going to change.

We've settled into our trenches and the A isn't a fair topic for conversation anymore. My wife changes her passwords and doesn't bother to tell me anymore because I should be done checking up on her...and yet she trolls through my history and looks at what I'm doing on-line over my shoulder because she's constantly suspicious that I'm going to do what she did.

But she doesn't talk about it.

We've settled into a pattern where for the most part, we live completely independent lives. If I ever bring up the A, even as context for my attitude about the relationship, it's "throwing it in her face". She never got it.

I told her the other day that as far as I was concerned, the entire dynamic of our relationship changed on D-day. She told me that was bullshit. We were still who we always were. I just refused to see it.

That pretty much sums up our impasse. For me, the A was a life-changing and attitude-changing event. For her, it was a bump in the road that's now behind us. She won't accept the new dynamic because she liked the old one just fine.

I've had to fight tooth and nail for every concession in R, and she maintains that she's done everything I asked...which isn't actually true. All I asked for was complete NC from xOM and his family. She hid contact for 18 months, and then blatantly broke NC in April. But she's not fucking him again, so in her mind, she's done all that was asked.

And that's the problem, really. All she's ever attempted was what I asked. She's never been proactive about changing herself, because her 2-year A was never anything more than a bump in the road.

So I offer this: If your WW makes no serious effort to change, then it's actually stupid to change your attitude from what it was post D-day. She's the same person she revealed herself to be then, just not currently practicing unfaithfulness.

And I think this scenario is much more common than we're led to believe in this environment. Most of us probably should have gotten divorced immediately. Most of us probably realized immediately that change is something our WW's just won't do. But we stayed, probably for a complicated mix of things like kids and finances, and maybe even love, but that dries up pretty quickly as time passes.

I'm learning that I'm not an R cheerleader. I'm learning that the best possible outcome for our healing is probably divorce. I have yet to see one concrete personal reason (personal means for my health and well-being, not things like kids and finances) why R is worth it.

And after two years, I've given up expecting anything different. Life goes on. We get along. We fight more often, and when we do, the fights are more brutal because I'm enormously sensitized to the fact that many of the fights are based on disrespect (i.e., she doesn't like the way I do things, doesn't approve of how I handled something) that I won't tolerate any longer.

As far as I'm concerned, she gave up the right to ask me to change solely to suit her desires the moment she climbed into another man's bed. Maybe that's the wrong attitude. Maybe that's my fault, but I'm also sensitive to the fact that other than NC, I haven't *asked* her to change since D-day. I figured the necessary changes would be self-obvious.

I felt that way while I was reading "Not Just Friends" and "After the Affair" and "The Five Love Languages" and a dozen other books. I felt that way while I was joining SI and trying to heal, to find the best way to cope with infidelity and move forward.

And all the time, she sneered. She rolled her eyes at what I was reading and at reaching out for help from people going through the same thing. All the time, she was rolling her eyes at me and waiting for me to get over it, because it wasn't a big deal, not really. Eventually I'd see that trust and respect were just a choice that I had to make, because that's what you do when you're married. And even if the trust and respect are misplaced, you make that choice anyway, because that's what marriage requires.

And so, she will never understand. Not because she can't, but because she won't.

And I'll continue to play this game, to play nice, to maintain the status quo, until I decide I won't any longer.

And that'll be that, because as my wife says, "It's not worth talking about any more."

learning25 posted 9/5/2008 21:05 PM

Thanks, Wincing. This was pretty powerful stuff for me. My WW showed tearful regret only on d-day...which was followed up with a ladleful of blame heaped on me. No real expressions of remorse. From day two, it was business as usual. Kind of her normal way of dealing with all our conflicts...sweep it under the rug and put on a smiley face.

She also has problems with maintaining NC. After her third failing, I saw an attorney and told her we are D-ing. She was shocked, but did not protest or ask for another chance. Strange, she thinks it's OK to keep her single OM and his parents as good friends.

I may give her another chance at NC. Mainly for the sake of the kids. Sucks, because it's not hard to imagine that in a couple of years, I may also be living your post. I have to give this more thought.


Me: BS 53 yrs., married 25 yrs.
WW: 54
Kids: Sons 19 & 16
D-Day: Feb. 9, 2008

TwoHearts posted 9/10/2008 15:35 PM

So I offer this: If your WW makes no serious effort to change, then it's actually stupid to change your attitude from what it was post D-day. She's the same person she revealed herself to be then, just not currently practicing unfaithfulness.

This got my attention, it sounds like something I want to write and don't know how.

At first this almost sounded like toxic shame where you can't seperate the act from the person. But in reality she violated the NC rules.

Those rules are absolutes for me, deal breakers for sure. After all she has refused to deal with and the blame shifting I have gone through, if my WW violates any of my absolute boundaries I really will be impossible to find.

She can try to figure out where I went for the rest of her foggy life.

Wincing is right it eventually has hurt for just too long, no human should be so confused that she can not see anything but her version for this length of time.

Ron7127 posted 9/11/2008 09:34 AM

I think it is ver tough to accept that some people just do not view cheating as a big deal. Thye view sex as merely a bodily function and attach no significance to it. As men, we are taught that women are not this way. But, it is becoming more and more evident that this attitude knows no gender boundaries.
Lokk at the folks on Jerry Springer and the characters depicted in shows like "Desperate Housewives" or "Sex in the City". These shows are geared toward female audiences and they are very popular. Some women are just very superficial and have a sense of entitlement(just like some guys).
I know both my XWW's are like this. To them, their infidelity is no big deal. They do not spend a lot of time worrying about it. I don't think they see it as a big deal.
WHen you are involved with someone with such different values there is no hope for the relationship.

lonelynlost posted 10/24/2008 23:38 PM

Well, my story is much different then most of you. My WW never could go NC because she was in LUV!

Anyway, when I looked her in the eyes after d-days she couldn't take it. Too much shame. After the total disrepect and her going further underground, I had to separate to take care of myself and remove myself from the toxic energy that was present in our house. It was morbid and really bad. At the end she was outwardly going to see OM. Pathetic I know but once an addict always an addict.

As far as respect and whore thoughts, I sure could not respect her afterwards. I did have the whore thoughts, however I never said them aloud although she could tell my emotions were hurting and anger was very prevalent during those times.

As far as respect, no I never regained that for WW. She didn't do much to attempt to regain it and therefore, I wasn't going there. I did give her chance to R, however, she was too confused and triangulated to think anything straight.

She always had boundary issues that I would caution her about to no avail. The OM works closely with her so after D-day she would cherish going to work to spend time with f_buddy. Weekends were horrible. She was sad because she couldn't see OM and abhored being with me.

Anyway, several months out (anti-versary is 10/25/08) and separated, I've regained respect for myself which has been really powerful and healing. I'm much happier now and we're close to finalizing D so things are looking up.

She still has her issues, does some IC occassionally. She knows she did wrong, however, she doesn't see any reason to give up her OM now. Her adult children (19, 21 & 22) are all home and loathing there mother's behavior. She's selfish and taking care of "her" needs regularly with OM, while I'm here dealing and healing from the aftermath.

I pray that God will help her because it doesn't seem as though much else can at this time.


shyguy posted 10/29/2008 07:33 AM

Lonelylost, mine has boundary issues. She works for OM. After one mc she filed for D. She moved near his house. I don't respect her. FWW don't respect themselves. Why should we respect them?

Tim3167 posted 10/29/2008 08:54 AM

Earlier in this thread I talked about in some ways I have actually gained respect for my FWW and that is still true. She really has tried to face what brought her to a place that allowed her to ignore her values and act in such a destructive way.

My problem is the part of me that is maybe male ego that feels in some way that now that another man has done those sexual things with my wife she is somehow now tainted.

A little history on my situation is that my wife lost all boundaries with a co-worker friend and slept with him every night while away on a 3 night business trip. She also perfromed oral sex once on him in his office before I discovered the whole thing. She said it was all about wanting his attention to keep comimg and the office thing was all about shock value to keep him interested.

After initial trickle truth that lasted about 4 months (she was afraid to tell about the office thing) she has been nothing but great. She has been going to MC and IC to understand what led her to that place and why she dealt with the need for attention in such an inappropriate way.

So here I am with a wife who has totally turned her life around and changed her priorities and speaks of nothing but her shame at what she did and her desire to live our life together.

Do any guys out there have advice for me on how you got past those thoughts of your wife with that other guy though. I'm really looking for thoughts from guys who have felt this and gotten past it. It won't help much to hear from 50 guys who all still think their wife is a slut.

I don't want to look at my wife and think of her giving a blow job to some guy in his office. I want to look at her and see my best friend again and the mother of my children. How do I not think of her as somehow different just because she had sex with someone else?!

She seems to be fully committed to Reconciliation and I want to be able to give her the same thing but I'm just struggling a bit.

wifehad5 posted 10/29/2008 12:11 PM


I struggle with this also. All I can say is that it does get better with time. I just went through a long perios where this was out of my mind. It's come back recently, but I'm working through it. I think time really is the healer here.

meetoomeetoo posted 11/1/2008 07:43 AM

I think you have to take her back to 'girlfriend status' in your mind. What I mean is to be not so committed to her to start and let her EARN her way back. You have to NOT CARE so much. Just like when you met a girl you liked you started probing and getting to know her to see if she was the one but were ready to cut her loose if you found any bullsh*t. I feel the same way towards my wayward wife. It's kind of a mental shift for doing the 180. If you think of her as a girlfriend, so to speak, you'll feel a lot more cavalier towards her and the things she does will not hurt as much. It's working for me. I've domonstrated that, even though I have her in my life, she is replaceable. Remember, the only reason people have affairs is because of selfishness and taking you for granted. Pull back and see if she pushes forward. If she does you get your wife back. If she doesn't you get your LIFE back.

caretoomuch posted 11/9/2008 08:28 AM

Well ,I've been avoiding this site for awhile...too painful in some respects,plus I've fallen in love with my motorbike...
Nevertheless we are2 years out. The period after D-Day was horrific. I certainly didnt pull back on the defensive behaviour. I let it rip in all the full total honesty. And she took it all. I stopped one day when she begged my to stop and said if I didnt and stayed all I would have left would be a shell. She declared a complete lack of self esteem from her background and the A. She claimed she had changed and could see what she had done to her and our life. Our children, grown daughters x3 were told by her about the A.
She has got a full time job and contributes most if not all of her earnings to the M.\ She works hard around the house and is disgusted with the A. (see the profile for her history of SAb) ..Yes some repect for her efforts is returning. BUT if I was 20 yrs younger and had no children I'd be off. I now look at other women and wonder about them as life partners. Something I never did before the A. If I stop doing this I would consider healing well on the way. If I dont ,well thats going to be difficult.

[This message edited by caretoomuch at 8:29 AM, November 9th (Sunday)]

Lonerider posted 11/10/2008 10:11 AM


It's a long, painful process, and there's no guarantees.

Of course, there's no guarantees in starting over with a new woman, either.

I hear you on the bike, I'm about to put mine away, I haven't had a good riding season since 2005 (what a coincidence).

wherewerewe posted 11/13/2008 09:56 AM


I am a BS. I had the same visions and lost respect for my fww as you talk about.

Not only did she perform OS she had AS with her OM as well. To make the vision worse, It was in my bed in my house!

The answer is "Time". You just have to accept it. Hard to do, hurts like hell. Does the thought ever go away. NO. It always exists, it just fades.

The question is really "would I be better off staying with this person,who I loved dearly or do I move on?" I looked at it from the standpoint that there is no guarantee, a new person could be worse. What is better the "devil" you know or the devil you don't know.

LeftHanging51 posted 11/13/2008 13:55 PM

How about giving up the devil you do know in exchange for no devil? That works fine for me. I've decided to give up on my WW and instead focus on my work and financing my son's college education.

Tim3167 posted 11/14/2008 10:54 AM

Thanks Wherewerewe for the response.

My wife and I have had some good conversation lately about how she acted in such a promiscuous manner with the OM during the affair as compared to her sexuality in the marriage with me. Finding out the details of her actions during the affair were even more shocking to me because I just didnt think my wife was that sexual or permisive a person. We were still sexual but not very often and it certainly didnt seem like a priority to her.

In her affair, it seems to me that it became important to her because she ended every night on that trip by sleeping with him. It had been a verrrry long time that we had ever had sex three nights in a row.

I guess what I acknowledge but have trouble accepting is that the very nature of what she was looking for and led her to the affair in the first place (i.e. attention and validation)resulted in her using sex differently than she did with me. I was there and she knew she didnt really have to impress me with sex to get my attention (that would have been nice though). In her affair she reverted back to a place where she used sex as the tool to keep the attention coming. You see to her she swears it wasn't about the sex, but about using it to get the attention.

In a talk yesterday she admits that she acted like a slut during that time and looking back on it now it disgusts her as well as me. I think hearing her admit that helps me to put this into some perspective that this isnt who she normally is and that I havent finally seen her true colors.

To get back to the subject of this thread, I think this is my path to regaining some of that respect for her as my wife. She has learned some things in IC about her having some abandonment issues and never learning how to appropriately handle her need for attention or how to let relationships develop appropriately.

I just have to keep remembering that my wife is not truly indicated by the person I see in those damn mind movies. I suppose I would hate for someone to continually judge me solely by my worst moments in life.

I'm about a year still sucks...but I maybe somedays can see a gliimer of light in my darkest thoughts.

lostboy36 posted 11/22/2008 10:01 AM

Wow, am I glad that I found this forum. I unfortunately had to join the SI club because of my WWs A, my D-day was 2 months ago. I've always had issues with the decisions my W made and I suspected the A for a long time. I almost caught them once, but allowed myself to be lied to and I knew she was lying, for a long time. So many things that many of you have already posted rings true with me, though the "dirty whore" hasn't. Unfortunately the mental movies play entirely to often. I don't know if I'll ever believer or trust her again. We've been in MC for 5 weeks and it seems as if I defend myself more often then I would have thought. As if my actions or lack thereof drove him between her legs. I've gotten some details on their physical and emotional A. I think she lied about a good deal of it to try and "protect" me. At this point I don't know where we are going or if trying to R is worth it. She'll never know how deeply she has hurt me, though she is extremely remorseful. We have our good days and not so good. To use the light at the end of the tunnel analogy...I see the light off in the distance, but I don't know if I have the desire or energy to walk to it. I'll also concede that light is completely unknown to me. Will be the completion of R or D. Though to be honest seeing some of the posts on SI from other BSs that are 5,6,7+ yrs out from D-day are not encouraging.

cani4give posted 11/23/2008 23:45 PM

lostboy, welcome but sorry you find yourself here. Unfortunately you are just starting your journey, and it will be difficult for quite some time. But it does get better. Although my life is still a struggle, it is more bearable than a few months ago. I am able to enjoy time with my kids again. And sometimes FWW and I get along rather well. And other times not so much. At 7 months out I usually believe her (thanks to her IC). The light in the tunnel is far off but you can reach it, whatever that light ends up being.

[This message edited by cani4give at 6:46 PM, July 6th (Monday)]

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