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User Topic: Men only- Timeline for gaining respect to fww ?
lostcause111
♂ Member
Member # 19109
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, September 30th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The sad fact of the matter this and a difference for those that R with a WW and those that do not.

Wals wife is rare. She knew how she fucked things up and conquered her disfunctional thinking.

I could right a story about my WW that every guy on SI would say "are you writing about my wife".

WLAS wife over came the microsoft and gained the courage to look in the mirror.

While I am happy to WAL he is lucky. Less than 10% of WW would ever do it.

When I was in MC and the whole two weeks my wife had remorse my counselor said women dont act like this accept this as a rare gift.

Two weeks later when my wife was fucked in the head again she said now this is the typical WW.

If you wife doesnt change and you have I am a big advocate if you cant leave due to kids is to carve your own life and in effect treat the marriage as one of convenience. Built in day care nothing more.

I had to adopt that stance after3 years of trying. Unlucky for me my wife is never changing and never will.


Posts: 934 | Registered: Apr 2008
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, September 30th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can respect her changes, but still cannot respect her as a person-Nov will be 4 yrs.

I doubt mine will ever be in the 10%.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5397 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 12:13 AM, October 1st (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Less than 10% of WW would ever do it.

These aren't very good odds. If it was an investment I wouldn't make it. What is the point in trying ? This isn't a good train of thought for me right now.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2555 | Registered: May 2010
Mighty
♂ Member
Member # 26909
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, October 3rd (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The sad fact of the matter this and a difference for those that R with a WW and those that do not.
Wals wife is rare. She knew how she fucked things up and conquered her disfunctional thinking

I’m trying to find the right words. There are some of us who don’t have a truly remorseful WW, but also have WW’s who’ve changed and no longer feel that ‘entitled, self-righteousness’ stuff they had before. I changed what I could with her help; The dynamics within our marriage. I know they do play a part in the security of the marriage. Because we are both working on it, the marriage is a lot better and healthier.

Yet I also know the dynamics of how she reacts to me have very little to do with the dynamics of how she is with others. The threat is there as well as the history. The only one who has any bit of control in that is her. And she’s not talking about that or what may have changed; That affects the ‘now’. Huge wedge in the relationship is the result.

But the marriage is better. I don’t get attitude anymore. She doesn’t treat me disrespectfully. It is vastly different. I’d even use the word ‘good’ in preference over ‘tolerable’. So, I have a good relationship without R. It is not however reconciled and it doesn’t feel ‘married’. To clarify that thought: It still feels like me versus her instead of us versus them. It’s even a surreal belief I have that ‘they’ would side with ‘me’ against ‘her’ and I’d even trust ‘them’ to have my back more than I’d trust ‘her’ to watch out for me.... Toxicity is still flowing through the marriage, yet, overall it is a pretty good relationship at this point....

So I’d say those of us without R, can still see varying degrees of change in our spouses... Maybe, like mine, there is enough change there that you can have a decent relationship, even a good one, but there is enough in there that it’s poisoned and keeps you at a distance. The frustrating part is you absolutely know it can be better, but that part you have zero control over changing. Your WW must step up and do that work to remove the poison drip she put in there. Mine isn’t. There is no R, just a very complex and confusing relationship.


BS (me) 44 WS (her)43
Married 17yrs, Together 20 yrs
Three children (9-13)
D-Day #1 - 4/11/09 (me).. DD's stopped, she quit talking. Body count: 6 OM, 1 OW. (2 EA's, 1 LTPA, 1 PA, 3 "kisses").

Posts: 629 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Denver
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, October 3rd (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I’m trying to find the right words. There are some of us who don’t have a truly remorseful WW, but also have WW’s who’ve changed and no longer feel that ‘entitled, self-righteousness’ stuff they had before.

Put me into this category. FWW now gets it that her perceptions were off. She is aware of her back and white thinking, that just because she thinks that I am mad, and that she is the reason I am mad, does not necessarily make it true. I no longer get blasted with stored-up resentment and anger. Now, she is more ashamed than angry. With her changes and mine, we have a better M, but we are not R, in fact I believe that we are headed to an eventual D.

I am not comfortable that her knowing what she now knows is enough to keep her boundaries in place long term. She is still depressed, more so now. She is ashamed of who she has discovered she is, the things she has done, and ironically these are all red flags to me for another OM at some point.

The biggest point though for me is that there is no intimate relationship. We are friends and roommates, but she is not comfortable being fully honest and open with me.

In many ways it would be easier if there were no changes and progress, then I would feel more validated in pursuing D.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 1:57 PM, October 3rd (Monday)]


FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4132 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Mighty
♂ Member
Member # 26909
Default  Posted: 3:37 PM, October 3rd (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In many ways it would be easier if there were no changes and progress, then I would feel more validated in pursuing D.

I get that... If she was still treating me as garbage, it'd be easy to cut my losses and D. I was there once.... and then she had to go and start being nice and screw that up.


BS (me) 44 WS (her)43
Married 17yrs, Together 20 yrs
Three children (9-13)
D-Day #1 - 4/11/09 (me).. DD's stopped, she quit talking. Body count: 6 OM, 1 OW. (2 EA's, 1 LTPA, 1 PA, 3 "kisses").

Posts: 629 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Denver
H sucks to be
♂ New Member
Member # 33538
Default  Posted: 2:48 PM, October 10th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is it just easier to live with what we know we have? I ‘m a little older and I know it would be very difficult to leave what I know (WW) and try to find a new life with someone else. We have too much history. Our lives are so intertwined (financially) that I think I would come out the loser on a D. At this point I’m pretty sure that I would take the lack of trust I have in people now into any other relationship I would get into. I know my WW will most likely never give me the full details of her affair. This has me so frustrated, all I have asked is give me a complete account of your affair and sincere apology and then it’s up to me to see if I can get past the betrayal .


BH 54
FWW 43
2 DD, 20 & 18
M - 22 years,
D-Day 12/2004 Found out about "friend", EA started 9/2004, affair ended 2/2005
D-Day 12/2010 Finally admitted to PA
My Birthday, Wedding Anniversary and Christmas damaged by her affair

Posts: 18 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: South Central, Indiana
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, October 11th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H sucks to be-

I don't know either. I hope it can be better than what it is today. I like you would lose out horribly in a D.

I will tell you that the threat of a D made my WW uber motivated to do what I have asked. Most attorney's will do a consult for free.

I talked to a lawyer, had him draw up the papers, got approved for an apartment. I stood down temporarily, but my WW knows how serious I was.

Is it possible for you to take some of these steps ? Don't hide them, tell her. Make her understand just how wounded you are from this. Then what you are asking for comes as a condition for you staying ?

It may not work, but at least it forces your WW to show her true intentions. Also it made me feel better. Like I had taken back some control over my life. Strength in action.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2555 | Registered: May 2010
H sucks to be
♂ New Member
Member # 33538
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, October 11th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Numb & Dumb, I hate what has happened to me and every other betrayed spouse that I have read about on this board. My main reason in staying is I have one daughter still living at home that I DO NOT want to ruin her final year of high school. If my wife and I were to split up it would negatively affect my daughter’s plans for collage. My wife is trying all be it at HER own pace.
I will tell you that the threat of a D made my WW uber motivated to do what I have asked.
I have been at this for six years. I tried IC we have been to two MC’s both were not very helpful attacking the affair. It was “you both need to communicate better”. Hell, I knew that without paying someone to tell me that.
It may not work, but at least it forces your WW to show her true intentions
To me she was having an exit affair and didn’t exit? I feel she wanted out but when it came time to leave she couldn’t. She had too much to lose (just didn’t think of it at the time of the affair). Now she is mega ashamed of what she did and just wants to bury it.
Also it made me feel better. Like I had taken back some control over my life. Strength in action.
Right now I would take knowing the whole truth and a sincere apology !!
Thank you for replying


BH 54
FWW 43
2 DD, 20 & 18
M - 22 years,
D-Day 12/2004 Found out about "friend", EA started 9/2004, affair ended 2/2005
D-Day 12/2010 Finally admitted to PA
My Birthday, Wedding Anniversary and Christmas damaged by her affair

Posts: 18 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: South Central, Indiana
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 10:15 PM, October 11th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ok what about telling your WW I need x, y and Z before DD goes off to college. Otherwise I am going to begin separation and investigate D.

Tell her I don't want to waste my golden years supporting a marriage that for all intensive purposes ended six years ago.

The communication thing is why I have refused MC right now. IC for each, maybe MC later. IC didn't help you ?


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2555 | Registered: May 2010
H sucks to be
♂ New Member
Member # 33538
Default  Posted: 7:23 AM, October 12th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ok what about telling your WW I need x, y and Z before DD goes off to college. Otherwise I am going to begin separation and investigate D.

My FWW knows what I want… Her “getting it” has not set in yet. She didn’t start IC until this year so she is way behind the curve. I’m waiting for her to get sometime with her therapist before deciding to investigate separation or D.

Tell her I don't want to waste my golden years supporting a marriage that for all intensive purposes ended six years ago.

This is one point that I will have to have a nice talk with the wife about.

The communication thing is why I have refused MC right now. IC for each, maybe MC later. IC didn't help you ?

IC helped with the earlier anger that had for my FWW. I’m kind of back in the anger stage due to D-Day #3 was just back in Dec 2011 (found out it was a PA). It took a while but I found out that I was not the problem. I still have trouble fully coming to terms with this concept.

maybe MC later

If you can find a MC that has any experience with affairs that could help when your wife and you are ready. I wasted several sessions before asking the therapist if she had any experience with affairs. She had never heard of “More then friends”. She wanted to work on our communication skills. Hell it was my wife that was not communicating what was going on in her head.


BH 54
FWW 43
2 DD, 20 & 18
M - 22 years,
D-Day 12/2004 Found out about "friend", EA started 9/2004, affair ended 2/2005
D-Day 12/2010 Finally admitted to PA
My Birthday, Wedding Anniversary and Christmas damaged by her affair

Posts: 18 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: South Central, Indiana
wahoo8895
♂ Member
Member # 29244
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, October 12th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

All of this is predicated on what I think is a simple, unalterable truth: there is a vanishingly small window of opportunity for the WS to display heartfelt, authentic and consistent remorse. And when I say that, I measure it in fucking weeks after D-day. Certainly no more than three months.

There are things a BS *must* have from their WS in the way of remorse -- and I mean unprompted, uncoached, un-asked-for things that any thinking human being with the brain of a troglodyte should find immediately obvious -- in this window. Complete commitment to NC. Accepting total responsibility. Absolute resistance to the urge to blameshift, either on the BS or on the "state of the marriage". A willingness to talk, to reveal, to answer questions, to be transparent and supportive.

You know the list.

If those things don't happen, then the BS has to either leave or start making compromises. We have to turn the marriage into a protracted state of trench warfare where we mark out territories over which to do battle and we fight until we win. It becomes reconciliation through attrition and sheer stubborn refusal to lose.

Holy fucking shit! This is so fucking spot on, I wish I had found this thread earlier. Describes my situation nearly to a tee, at 22 months out (will be 2 years in December). Yep, FWW missed that window by a long shot. She recognizes what she did was wrong, but rarely if ever shows any remorse. And since we're in a mostly sexless marriage now (maybe having sex every two weeks -- I still can't forget the fact that she and OM fucked each other on average every two days), I've noticed a drop in my sexual interest.

In answer to the original question, though, I never considered FWW a "dirty whore" and I don't think I ever stopped respecting her (or at least stopped respecting her more than I always did).


Me - BH (47)
Her - FWW (46)
Married 17 years
Together 19 years
3 kids
DDay #1 - 12/8/09 (EA)
DDay #2 - 12/18/09 (PA)
A ended - 2/21/10
R'ed

Posts: 545 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Metro DC
Mypoorboys
♂ Member
Member # 33169
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, October 20th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello All,
I'm 9 months in, still in the house and she still acts like a whore, albeit, mostly on her own time.
No remorse, nothing but lies, continued behavior of a 16 yr old, (constant texting with boyfriend 24/7), on, off their respective jobs.
She filed back in May, I countered with the same irreconcilable differences, (should be Adultery, but in NJ means nothing).
For me, I don't ever see me respecting anything about this woman, (read my profile blog to get an idea who she is).
Doesn't matter to me why she has done this, either due to something in her or just pure selfishness, (she's always been treated like a princess, and I continued the process).
Now, at this point I'm fighting her and her Father over the buyout value for the property, (she wants to keep everything and limit my access to my young boys). Not!
This is going to trial in Jan. 2012 and ESP in Dec.
Her, 'Daddy Warbucks', Father and they are attempting to drain me financially/emotionally to give in. Not!
I don't deserve this, my boys certainly don't and I pray to GOD every night for myself, (cancer survivor), and my two young boys, (3 & 7).
I often ask myself how a person can be so removed from reality and so hurtful, so blind. Then I remember the, 'Fog', and forget all the side issues and refocus on my health and the boys.
I pray for everyone here who has been betrayed, cheated, lied to and hurt beyond what words can describe.
MPBs

Posts: 176 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New Brunswick, New Jersey
del311
♂ Member
Member # 33840
Default  Posted: 5:23 PM, December 7th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I used to be so proud of my wife and our relationship! I respected her so much! we got married at 20 years old and it was the coolest thing in the world for me when we were asked how long we've been married!?!? we both grew up with the same friends and everybody always commented how perfect we were together. now that same question has turned from such pride to the worst trigger!!! worst thing about it is outside i am happy and smiles...inside i wonder if i can ever look at her the way i used to be able to???

[This message edited by del311 at 5:24 PM, December 7th (Wednesday)]


BS(me)..39
WS(her)..38
OM(boy)..22(WTF)
Married..18y
2 children..18 & 5
DDay 3/3/11 "EA only"
DDay 3/7/11 "yup PA"
Grasping for R...fingers.cramped.losing.grip...

Posts: 96 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: san diego
3yrwait
♂ Member
Member # 29907
Default  Posted: 11:22 PM, December 7th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't recall seeing this thread. I wish I had seen it months ago.
At this point, although I still think about the causes of the A, I am resigned to the fact WW is never going to put forward the effort on her own to make things better, never answer questions without a week of resistance. So, 4.5 years after DDay, not much respect for WW.

I have learned I can put up a sustained fight to get my way. I wasn't able to do that before and during A; I have found it is easier to win these battles when you don't care about the other person's feelings. But why should I have to fight to get my way? Why hasn't she ever, on her own, come forward and said "I am sorry, I want to make things right." I have to fight to get that and I am tired of fighting.

So I stick around for my daughter, and to avoid the financial, familial and other burdens of a divorce. Also, I have no desire to get involved in another relationship. It is just easier to have a roommate that I can have sex with on occasion.

Damn, I wasn't depressed before I wrote this. Crap. Maybe it is time for another fight. lol

I will say she has more respect for me than before; or maybe it is fear. It isn't remorse.


Me: BH (early 40s)
Her: WW (early 40s)
Married 15 years
1 daughter, under 10
DDay July 2007

Posts: 469 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: 3yrwait
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 8:04 AM, December 9th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

3yrs, I am exactly in the same sitch, except two kids.
We have 180'd each other so long now we just kinda live our own lives, go to work/take care of kids.

You aren't alone. It is easy for a guy, but it's not fulfilling at all, but like you I have no interest in another relationship-I've been burnt every single time.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5397 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
triangle
♂ New Member
Member # 34522
Default  Posted: 12:47 AM, January 14th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I respect my wife for her intelligence and her beauty and respect what she once was. That is now gone.

I cannot respect nor be able to look at her the same way and hold her w/out the scar tissue getting in the way. This is especially so as she shows no signs of remorse or concern. If she did I think that would change for me in time.The sex thing is out for me. So that isnt going to work for me long term. Mind movies just haunt me and I dont know the details.

I want badly to respect her and have back those feelings but I don't see that changing as she has made clear in actions and words that she cannot R.


ME-BH 45
Her-WW 45
DD-7-4-11
EMA PA
Married 22 years
3 awesome teenagers
On the way to D, its over.

Posts: 4 | Registered: Jan 2012
Coma
♂ Member
Member # 29353
Default  Posted: 9:26 AM, January 16th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gentleman

I have been reading some of your comments. Wow! My first time here so i will need to get up to speed. Too many of us here that's for sure. The assumption here is that we gave our best but still got the wool pulled over our eyes.


BS-Me
WW-Her
"Love, look what you've done to me"

Posts: 457 | Registered: Aug 2010
spareparts
♂ Member
Member # 33434
Default  Posted: 9:56 AM, January 16th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Gents

Been sent to this thread by someone else, I've read a few of the posts and some things have resonated with me.

My situation is slightly more different in that my WW actually left me for the OM, and then came back on the same day. Not sure if anyone else has had that happen.

I think my lack of respect for her no longer comes from her A, I can just about manage to deal with that one. I suppose the hardest part for me is that when outted to the world, when the chips were down, my WW rented a house with OM and planned on moving in with him. She left me, took the kids over to her's for dinner with OM and then brought them back. So in effect she not only left me, but she left our 3 kids whilst she went off to live the happy life with OM. Ok she lastest less than 4 hours after bringing them home but still.

I suppose then its "why the hell did I let her back?". I couldn't tell you honestly. I think mainly because when she asked me to take her back, all I could think was "if she is here my kids won't be living with OM". Now I know everyone says don't just do it for the kids, but i feel if my wife had left me to be on her own then fair enough taking the kids would be ok. But having them live with him was what I feared most. Now though i not only have to deal with the loss of respect to my WW, but with loss of respect to myself. I've never been the strongest guy, I usually back down or talk my way out of most things, which is ironic given then fact that I'm a fairly large intimidating guy! So now I'm finding it hard to also not let my WW walk all over me again!

It seems that most of you here have far more respect for youselves than I do at the moment! Hopefully I'll get there with you.

Oh WW does seem to be showing some remorse, not huge amounts but far more than i have ever seen from her before. NC not in effect due to them working together still, am waiting for the day when they are forced apart which i'm hoping is in the next month or so.

Spareparts


Posts: 515 | Registered: Sep 2011
reallyscrewedup7
♂ Member
Member # 30825
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, January 16th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Interesting thread, no doubt.

For me, it has been a multiple-part process. Filing for D, getting my own place, and living my own life showed her that I wasn't the doormat she had trained for so many years. And that is not just my words - she admitted to me that she never thought I would leave her. Not that she thought I was weak or less than her (quite the opposite it turned out), but that I was so "duty honor country" that I would stick it out with her regardless.

Next, I took as much financial risk out of staying with fWW as possible because frankly, I cannot trust her judgement. She is a good mother and right now, a very loving, caring and healing wife. But she was so selfish and entitled for so long (way before the A), I will not be fooled that months of healing can rewire neural pathways that have been established over 40 years.

If I was going to get sleep at night, I needed by HCPOA to be my sister, the trustee of my estate to be my lawyer, etc. It is a cause of friction between us, but my need to be safe trumps her need to have me respect her financial/end-of-life decision process.

The final part has been my healing. I no longer feel obligated to fix every bad thing in her life. That has been huge. She is a big girl and if the degradation of her looks makes her want to fuck other guys, there is nothing I can do about it. It is all her. Thankfully, she has has admitted her faults and even though she really hated the concept of IC, she has been diligent in her work and has found a great counselor.

So, I guess my level of respect for my fww as a person might actually be higher than before the A. But the reality is that I will probably never respect her decision making process in a potential crisis, because it would be too easy for her to fall back into her selfishness. So I have taken every step I can to limit my exposure. Sort of like never putting a shot of Johnnie Walker Blue in front of an alcoholic.

[This message edited by reallyscrewedup7 at 7:06 PM, May 1st (Tuesday)]


Infidelity sucks shit

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