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Men only - Timeline to regain respect for FWW?
My wife isn't admitting to anything. I'm too easy to gaslight. Even though I've found so many clues of late, I'm still stuck in la-la land.
Hey Kaz. What sort of clues do you have? Maybe we can help you get undeniable proof.
I don't have confidence in her ability to make sound decisions, to select appropriate friendships, to maintain personal boundaries, etc. Of course, that could be because she doesn't seem to have made much progress since the A in making better decisions.
This is where I am right now. I guess the respect will return when I don't have to point out when and who she should be talking to. She just started IC yesterday and hopefully that will help.
I shouldn't have to monitor my wife's internet use more than her teenage daughter's.
Almost 2 years now since D-Day. I bit my lip with the whore thing but sure did and occaisionally still do think it. She is utterly remorseful and mentioned how ashamed she is of her actions.
She admits I always put her first and how I don't act the same as I used to act before D day. Duh!!!
She has changed too. She waits on me hand and foot. Sex whenever I want. Even willing to do things that she didn't used to be willing to do (if you know what I mean). I believe if we didn't have the two little ones, I would be out of here. But we do and I have to bite the bullet and make the best out of it that I can. You know the words, I love her, but I am not in love with her. I pray every day to fall in love with her again.
Trust? never blind trust. Respect? probably never. We went to one MC. I asked her to go to MC, IC, polygraph, new job since she worked for OM. She responded by filing for D.
Trust. Will never trust anybody like that again. If this M survives or I get involved with someone else I will always snoop.
The whore feelings. I have them but bite my tongue. Doing stuff in parks and our basement is what makes her one if I focus on it.
Respect. That will take a life time to come back if ever.
I actually think mental illness is prevalent in most wayward but it is not a get out of jail free card. they are adults and need to own their shit.
Given my fiance hasn't committed to R at the moment (D Day in Jan and subsequent D-Days in April (found out PA not just EA)) I'm still in the fog.
My major issue is respect and honesty and I told her to have a relationship we need that. In our first MC session together (one of the very few) she said to the counsellor she couldn't imagine anyone respecting her as much as I do. And yet I seem to be worth no respect at all (based on having an A then being lying and deceitful right up till today).
But then should I expect it when she hasn't committed to R yet?
I see lots of "nevers" popping up here. I'm a long way out from dday, and I admit I sometimes still trigger, but for the most part I both trust and respect FWW. She had one brief slip up, was remorseful, maintained NC, and gradually was forthcoming on the truth. I put myself in her place after the A, not during! It must have been extremely difficult to confess to me. She remained with me through the various phases of denial, anger, acceptance, and reconciliation. She must love me deeply to go through all that I put her through, not to mention the guilt she felt within herself. I called her names, I hated her for quite a while, I didn't believe a word she uttered for a time, but through all that she stayed with me and tried her best to get us both through it. Please don't give your FWW a Life sentence. Better to split up and move on than to beat someone up for something they no longer can control---Your mindset and thought processes.
[This message edited by Hurtnstill at 4:35 PM, June 12th (Thursday)]
This thread started out about calling WW “dirty whore” and has taken a few turns since then.. I not only thought that.. I called her that and much much worse.. that was in the early stages post D-day… have not used words as nasty as that in a long time.
However someone wrote:
“When a wife is sleeping with another man while she is married and still also sleeping with her husband at the same time, I believe that is slutty behavior.”
Couldn’t agree more ,,it is slutty behavior.. selfish, uncaring etc
The question about trust is “trust to do what exactly”.. will she have another A?? I doubt it.. but that doesn’t take away what she did.
Like tputer, I discovered the LTA many years after the physical was over.. but she had continued A-related correspondence with him til she was caught 5 months ago…up til that time, no remorse, no shame, some guilt but never enough to amount to anything
And during much of this time she played the ultimate hypocrite of advising friends on multiple occasion when faced with a WS to “toss his sorry ass out”.. of course, all the WS’s were men… might be something here??
Tputer also mentioned his WW saying that she would do anything to make him happy, including D.. mine says the same thing… BS BS BS… it’s a hallmark or Oprah moment.. if they were that concerned with our happiness and to be that unselfish.. it would have shown up earlier.. its just another way of manipulating us… but then again she also said recently that she always felt that “she was really in our marriage”.. I guess her definitions of being in a marriage are very different than mine..
And back to trust… I am in this mess because I trusted her too much… never would have thought she was capable of some of this shit…
As far as respect… how can I ever really respect her again…I might get past it, suck it up, logically work out why staying is in MY best interests… but never respect , ever ever again..thats respect as a person.. she disrespected me bigtime without cause.... that took all my respect away for good…
I could go on and on…
My FWW ended her A (for good) 3-1/2 months ago. Since then we've been thru hell like everyone else.
I guess I am "lucky" in that she seems to have a great IC who is helping her make drastic changes. The way she is today compared with a couple months ago is like night and day. She's completely remorseful now, answers all my questions calmly, willing to help me heal however I say. And when I look into her eyes I SEE someone different than the person I was living with before - I see the woman I fell in love with 15 years ago. That might sound corny but it's true. She feels different to me.
I never thought it would have been possible, but I am slowly beginning to gain respect back for her. Through all our talks, I am discovering her personality flaws that led to this. She is really starting to open her feelings to me - which she used to keep hidden.
Today, I have hope.
[This message edited by cani4give at 6:43 PM, July 6th (Monday)]
It's been almost 17 years ad it still isn't back fully.
I don't think it ever will be.
One too many broken vows.
(listening to: Steely Dan; My Old School).
It was still september when your daddy was quite surprised to find you with the working girls in the county jail.
I was smoking with the boys upstairs when I heard about the whole affair, I said whoa no, william and mary won't do now. I did not think the girl could be so cruel, and I'm never going back to my old school.
Emotionally, I've been all over the place in the past couple of weeks. So I don't want to be hasty.
I have never called her a "whore" to her face. But I do hear that in my head.
I am terrified that if I "cut loose" with my feelings, she will give up and either D or commit suicide.
She is remorseful, very. She is in IC. But I believe that her problems are very deep and profound. And while she admits she feels humiliated and ashamed of what she did, she still won't accept responsibility for any of it, because she was raped, she was on antidepressants (which did have a pretty big effect on her personality, and responses and decision making process).
So I'm stuck between this rock and a hard place. If I demand that she work harder on her issues, if I demand that she take responsibility, then I'm being "insensitive to a rape victim". If I don't, then I'm faced with passively sitting back and watching her choose: face her problems and work to fix them, or watch her crash and burn again (taking me over the cliff with her).
I guess I have so little faith in her - seeing how weak-willed she is, I don't believe she's going to work hard on fixing her issues, she's going to give up if I don't push her.
I know what my MC would say: She can't become empowered if she doesn't want to, and ME pushing her to do so is counterproductive. It gives her a crutch to lean on.
But what about ME? What about MY life. Can't I say something or do something about who I'm sharing my life with without having to take the extreme measure of D, child custody fight, and all that crap?
So I continue to be walking this fine, twisted line. Each step is torture. Death and destruction on either side.
I will probably never respect the person she was/is again.
I believe I could probably respect the person she will become. When she finally gets the courage to become that person. And not for me; for herself. The motivation isn't there, because she hates herself so much.
You need to do what is best for you. You may not be able to fix her. She needs to want to change. Please protect yourself. You deserve better!
First, I'd like to say a thank you to all who've participated in this thread thus far.
It's 21mos since D-day. There was another 'crash and burn' day on Dec. 22nd 06.
I found a letter in April 07 and journal entries into Sept of 07. She continued to work at the same company (different cities but same department) until Dec 07.
Putting a firm date on how long it's been is tough. I know OM gave WW a CD of "songs that meant a lot to him" in December. They were working on a Habitat for Humanity House as a department charity event.
As long as she continues drinking, there's no trust and respect is limited.
The more I find out about the A, the sluttier she becomes in my mind. Just last night I asked about a phrase in the April07 letter calling OM the "sleepover king".
I'd read it before and it never registered too much, as I knew they had met in hotel rooms and such on business trips.
Yesterday it occured to me that this referred to a short period (3mos) she spent on a work project in OM's city. She had an apartment there. I asked, she confirmed, he spent the night there at every opportunity.
I don't know.. the level of respect and trust being what it is, it has me thinking I may need to get a change of scenery for a while and reevaluate where I stand.
[This message edited by plesk3yl at 1:57 PM, July 29th (Tuesday)]
Well, fWW was so humiliated and debased by OM, she actually WAS a whore.
She took a job as a "sensual massage" therapist; including "happy endings". She did this two times.
This one's really hard to swallow. Post d-day, money's been tight this summer (show of hands?) and she actually asked me if it was alright if she did this again - because she made $500 in three hours when she did this before.
I told her it would be like an alcoholic taking a job as a bartender. Not a good idea, and it would probably be best if she brought this up to her IC. Um - gee. . . Hello?! BOUNDARIES?!!
What really sucks about this, is she has most often been very shy and reserved in the bedroom with me. I know her VERY well. I don't like to think that. I know that. We have explored kink pretty thoroughly, in a safe, controlled environment. And deep down, she is really a modest little prude. Her behavior during this A was so not her.
Well, my 10 months later update (as we close in on 2 years post d-day):
Nothing has changed. I still feel exactly the same way now as I did in October 2007, when this thread started.
I had hoped by now that I'd have at least reached a milestone where I could recognize my FWW as a "good person", even if she is a crappy wife.
But no dice. I'm consistently amazed by her ability to be petty, grotesque, low and pretty much in every other way someone I wouldn't associate with if I wasn't married to her. If it means anything, even her laugh sounds coarse to me now.
I'm starting to suspect that she's been this way all along, and I just chose not to see it.
Over the last couple of months, I've resorted to porn just to get aroused enough to have sex with her. I find her sexual touch vaguely repulsive.
It is what it is.
Maybe it's time to see a lawyer. It's Hell to live that way.
Wow... gaining respect...
i'm only 1 week from dday which really blows.
I've got the "dirty whore" syndrome... the "how the hell could you degrade me by having sex with me while you are f'ing this dumbass?"... the how could you think that this was okay for a year and a half? how many lies can you tell before you've told too many?
New revelations every day for "hmmm... I wonder if when she was gone this weekend she was actually with him"... new triggers for sending me down into the pit i've been living in for the past week... like a song or a movie or a family trip or whatever. How the hell could you ruin the entire fucking "A Fine Frenzy" album for me? I loved it and I can't listen to a single fucking song now!
Shit... we've been working with MC and having some good talks and she seems remorseful. Some days i'm sad... some days i'm just numb... some days I don't trust... some days i'm angry... and that's all in one fucking week!
I congratulate those that can R and have soe respect, trust etc restored. But, the reality for most folks facing this is that it is a dealbreaker. You cannot unring a bell.
We are misled by websites and counseling services alleging that the marriage can be healed and made stronger. I'm sure it happens, rarely. Reading this topic, with all the guys still hurting after all this time, confirms for me that infidelity often denatures a marrige irreperably.
Sometimes we beat ourselves up for not being able to get past this. But, that is really, the most common reaction to a spuses infidelity. Things will most likely never be as good again. It is just such a brutal, divisive thing.
"When NC has been established and WS is remorseful, do you ever gain the respect you once had for your wife?"
She's living with the OM and the only remorse she is feeling is that she was caught red handed at the hotel with him and had no way to lie about it. So, the answer is no.
"Did the feeling of being "so grossed out" and "she's-a-dirty-whore" ever fade?"
Nope, because "she is one," and the sight of her sickens me. Oh, and you left out selfish, narcissistic, and parasitic.
"What is the timeline?"
Umm... Eternity. With the things she has done with the A and afterward using our child as a weapon and a shield... That Skunt can rot in hell.
“When a wife is sleeping with another man while she is married and still also sleeping with her husband at the same time, I believe that is slutty behavior.”
I agree. I never had the whore thing going on, because she never took any money for doing the tricking. OM got my wife's goods for free. Well, not really, because I sure paid a hefty price, and in the end, so did she...but whatever...
The part that gets me is knowing my wife had the morals of an alley cat. MY WIFE fucked someone besides me.
I respect her in every way except sexually. I don't DISrespect her in that regard either, but sometimes (and this may be TMI for some) a hand job is more than sufficient, thank you.
Except for brief instances, I still avert my eyes if she's naked or while we have sex. Especially during sex, because when I look, I imagine OM looking at what I'm looking at, and the next thing you know we're back to the afore-mentioned handjob. *shrug*
I don't expect the sex aspect to ever be what it was. But I can live with the way it is now.
[This message edited by Clint at 2:11 PM, August 13th (Wednesday)]