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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: The N.P.D. Thread Part IV
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, November 22nd (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ouch,
I just wanted to let you know that I'm thinking of you today. I don't have much time (I'm in between chopping celery and onions) as my whole family is coming here tonight.

I hope it's some comfort to know that EVERYTHING you are going through is completely normal. Even the "crazies." I did the same thing. I lost it too and felt terrible about it. Of course he was right there "Ah-HA! See, you ARE crazy!"

Everything you are going through and everything you are feeling is the crazy making that is part of life with an NPD. This is what they do. Then they leave you in shambles and run off with who seems is Miss Wonderful.

I know you've heard it before, but give it time. With time and distance, comes clarity.

(((Hugs)))

[This message edited by sadtoo at 1:32 PM, November 22nd (Thursday)]


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, November 22nd (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OMG, sad! I could not have posted it better, word for word, this is it EXACTLY!!!

itsa~ this is normal, too. Its from all the emotional upheaval & how our body (physically) reacts/heals to the stress & stress of the N freak!
After I kicked N out, I still felt "flat", still felt bizarre for many, many months!

(((huge hugs across the pond, sweetie!)))


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
itsabattle
♀ Member
Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 4:15 PM, November 22nd (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Dream! Have a wonderful Thanksgiving.

Ouch - so much of what you say is relevant to what we have all gone through. How the freaks twist things so it is our fault is terrible. I think Bob puts it wonderfully. There was never anything you could do to stop this as you were targetted. The are emotional vampires - no more no less.
You are at the stage where you have to care for yourself and fight to get rid of him and everything he represents.

I hate these people who have caused so much pain.


Posts: 1233 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: england
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 6:02 PM, November 22nd (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

itsa, yes, thnx I despise them, too.

I was wondering earlier if somehow I'm walking around with a bulls eye on my forehead? I've met women N's as well.

In fact, after my son was killed & the home foreclosed on, we moved in with a woman N who appeared to be the *most* kind & loving person (another "saintly N" ) ...and it was a Horror Story living there!

XH was out applying for jobs and never heard back (she sabotaged/intercepted the calls from prospective employers, & cut the extension phone cord to our room ), blamed her children, etc.

I wonder how many of us have met other female N's (besides in M)?


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 6:07 PM, November 22nd (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I married an apparent female N. LOL. With a FOO aparently riddled with PD's including friends and associates, male and female, all flavors...

Bob

[This message edited by bobelina at 7:26 PM, November 22nd (Thursday)]


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
itsabattle
♀ Member
Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 12:36 AM, November 23rd (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't think I have ever come across anyone who has npd other than my ex. I hope I never come across anyone like that again. Frighening!

Posts: 1233 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: england
dharmarat
♀ Member
Member # 14997
Default  Posted: 5:29 PM, November 23rd (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My jaw is literally on the floor.

This is my WH. Bobelina, your post on p 14 was so helpful.

I always imagined NPD types to be rock stars. Everything I've read here--all 15 pages of it describes my WH. Not the aggressive/overtly abusive features, but everything else.

Part of the reason I'm so completely blown away is that I studied this stuff in graduate school!!!! It just never occured to me that this all explains my WH's behavior. Hell, it certainly doesn't excuse it, but to know that other people know what it's like to deal with someone like this.

Many times in the past 10 yrs it has felt like I am banging my head against the wall trying to be in relationship with this man. Like trying to shove a square peg into a round hole.

I can't believe this.

I can't believe it. I feel like I have been married to an alien and noone really understands what he's like and now I've found you all and you speak the language. Ok, that's a really crappy metaphor, but I am totally blown away by this!

Thank you for making me feel less crazy!


Posts: 261 | Registered: Jun 2007
itsabattle
♀ Member
Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 7:42 PM, November 23rd (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

dhar - when you realise what they actually are it is quite a revelation. I am sorry that you are here.

Posts: 1233 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: england
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 8:57 PM, November 23rd (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

dharmarat It is a real shock to come face to face with the disorder. I studied it some in my undergrad work and found it to be difficult to put the disorder into reality until you really see the disorder in action.. The words just don't do it justice.

Just have something to call the insanity helps. It makes it feel less fantastic and impossible. They really are crazy and we really are sane even though we don't feel it at times.

Welcome and glad you found us.


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
DD123
♀ Member
Member # 13369
Default  Posted: 9:03 PM, November 23rd (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Headline: My First NPD-free Thanksgiving in 17 years!!!

I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving! I hope this one was better than past Thanksgivings, mine was! Hopefully with the self-realization about our horrible NPD, things can only look up!

This Thanksgiving was the first without my STBXN. It was the BEST one ever. Never once did I miss him or wish he was with us. Not once.

My wonderful brother actually bought us ALL (me and 3 kids) first class tickets to fly to his house. My brother drove 1 1/2 hours each way to/from the airport, picked us up in the terminal, carried our bags... all without complaining. There are some good guys out there! My kids got to play with their cousins. We visited with extended family. I didn't have to plan a menu, I was fed a gourmet meal by SIL!

All those things were GREAT... but... the BEST thing about Thanksgiving was not having STBXH there. Without him there
I:

-- could eat what I wanted to, when I wanted to

-- wasn't judged by him about the Thanksgiving menu.

-- wasn't worried the whole day about making my STBXN happy and content.

-- said what I wanted to with my family without being judged. Or my family being judged.

-- didn't have to hear him complain about my mom, brother, SIL, etc...

-- let my kids be kids with their cousins, let them yell and scream and be... kids. Without having him put them down, make them nervous and then blame me for their behavior.

-- could stay up as late as I wanted, got up when I wanted without it being dictated by him.

-- felt at peace. I was in control. I was MYSELF for the first time in a long, long time.

My kids thanked me for having the best Thanksgiving ever.


Married 16 years
Kids - 16, 15, 7
D-day 12/4/06.
Many add'l d-days; many false Rs
Separated 3/18/07; Divorced 2/20/08

"Women are like tea bags...you never know how strong they are until they are in hot water!!!"


Posts: 667 | Registered: Jan 2007
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, November 23rd (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bravo, DD123!
That's *wonderful*!

Welcome dharmarat!
Yes, I agree with lied2. Reading/studying about NPD is just so vastly different & virtually incomprehensible than having the dreadful, sickening, & loathesome experience of LIVING WITH an N!

Yeah, that weird sudden "withdrawal". I had forgotten about that, too.

And, there is a camera that was fully loaded which I still cannot find year 2 of his being kicked out so he must have tossed it out as he did other things dear to me...N also ripped off an antique shovel & mailed it over to me just to deprive his brother of it...yes, so petty & destructive, & un-necessarily CRUEL.

(((((hugs everyone))))


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 10:06 PM, November 23rd (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Emotional Vampires:
http://psychforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=23032
---------------------
I found this with my recent reading.

Emotional Vampires. Dealing with People who Drain you Dry. Albert J Bernstein, Ph.D. McGraw-Hill. 2001.

Page 3

When people are driving themselves crazy, they have neuroses and psychoses. When they drive other people crazy, they have personality disorders. According to the diagnostic manual of the American Psychiatric Association, a personality disorder is:

An enduring pattern of inner experience and behaviour that deviates markedly from the expectations of the individual's culture. The pattern is manifested in two (or more) of the following areas:

1. Ways of perceiving and interpreting self, other people, and events.

2. Range, intensity, lability, and appropriateness of emotional response.

3. Interpersonal functioning.

4. Impulse control.

The manual describes diagnostic patterns of thoughts and behaviour for 11 different personality disorders, of which we will consider the 5 most likely to cause you trouble in your daily life: Antisocial, Histrionic, Narcissistic, Obsessive-Compulsive, and Paranoid.

...I have seen time and time again that these disorders consistently cause the most trouble for the most people, at home, at work, and everywhere in between.

...All the patterns derive from the fact that Emotional Vampires see the world differently than other people do. Their perceptions are distorted by their cravings for immautre and unattainable goals. They want everybody's complete and exclusive attention. They expect perfect love that gives but never demands anything in return. They want lives filled with fun and excitement, and to have someone else take care of anything that's boring or difficult. Vampires look like adults on the outside, but inside, they're still babies.

Antisocial Vampires. They're Ferraris in a world of Toyotas, built for speed and thrills. You're apt to be very disappointed if you expect them to be reliable. When you see them coming, hold on to your heart and hide your wallet.

Histrionic Vampires. Vampires can't see their reflection in a mirror. Histrionics can't even see the mirror. They're experts at hiding their own motivations from themselves.

Narcissistic Vampires. Are legends in their own minds. Surely you don't expect them to live by the rules of mere mortals. Regardless of what they say, Narcissistic Vampires seldom do anything that isn't self-serving.

Obsessive-Compulsive Vampires. The second longest wait in the world is for Obsessive-Compulsives to make a decision. The longest wait is for them to speak even a single word of praise.

Paranoid Vampires. Unfortunately, paranoia makes no distinction between theories of unseen forces in physics and those of unrecognised aliens trying to take over the world.

Maturity and Mental Health.

Page 11

The Perception of Control.

To be psychologically healthy, we have to believe that what we do has some effect on what happens to us. Even if the perception of control is delusional, it usually leads to more productive action than believing that what we do makes no difference.

Over time and with reflection, our choices get better, and we perceive even more control over our fate. This is the main benefit of growing up.

Emotional Vampires never grow up. Throughout their lives, they see themselves as victims of fate and the unpredictability of others. Stuff happens, and they just respond to it. As a result, they have no opportunity to learn from their mistakes, and they just keep on making the same one's over and over.

The Feeling of Connection

Human beings are social creatues. We can experience our full humanity only in the context of connection to something larger than ourselves. It is our connections and commitments that give meaning to our lives.

Becoming an adult human being means learning to live by social rules that become such a part of our reality that most of us follow them without even thinking.

As normal people grow, they come to appreciate more and more their similarity to others. Empathy is what maturity is all about. Vampires just don't get this concept. To them, other people are there to supply their needs.

Adults understand that the more you give, the more you get. Vampires take.

Human relationships depend on a clear perception of the psychological line between what's mine and what's yours. Vampires have a hard time seeing this all-important boundary. They believe that whatever they want should be given to them immediately, regardless of how anyone else might feel about it.

Social creatures trust each other to follow the basic rules, and Emotional Vampires betray that trust.

The lack of connection to something larger than themselves is also the reason for vampires' internal pain. The universe is a cold and empty place when there is nothing in it bigger than your own need.

And finally from page 150 on Narcissists.

If you think you can teach a Narcissist to care about what other people feel, it's probably best to sit in a dark, quiet room until the delusion goes away.

Book summary: Overall I found it somewhat insightful and a great way to read about serious stuff while having a chuckle. The solutions given on how to deal with Narcs in your life I didn't agree with at all. Perhaps in the workforce, but definately not if you're dealing with a malig narc in your close relationship/s.


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 10:23 PM, November 23rd (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

More info...thnx, BoB!

This is why writing letters of explanation or of questioning an N just does NO damned GOOD at all.

So, while I was busy driving myself crazy ('neuroses'~ that he speaks of), my N was also driving me crazy as well.
I like that analogy best of all!

And, this totally connects to jmashmun's ...'they are like 6 year olds'...yes!


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
ouchagain
Member
Member # 12193
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, November 24th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bobelina: Great information, thanks for posting it.

I feel like I'm not going to make it through this pain right now. I just want Monday to come. He's at this resort with her and I can't stop obsessing about what they're doing - making all these wonderful memories together. I had the web site of the place and even know which room they're staying in and can't keep myself from looking at the room and all the beautiful pictures - in the Grand Canyon. I'm just sick with grief. Here he is with her having an amazing vacation and I can barely pay my bills - he took everything from me. But, I know, he doesn't see it this way - more like, wow, I've found this amazing woman who is all about fun and adventure and pays for everything. I truly pale in comparison to that. Why can't I just see it for what it is. I'm dying inside.


Posts: 160 | Registered: Sep 2006
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, November 24th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ouch, sweetie, it must HURT LIKE HELL!

Hang in there!

Go back to your *Fun Memories* before with fucktard.

Then...remember how it all changed?

She might think he's "all that", & yes, "they" might be having a *wonderful time* for right now...but the misery/crazy pain of being with an NPD is right around the corner!

Yeah, you betcha!

And, she is going to rue the freakin' day she ever met him, too!

It seems wonderful & so much glorious Fun, but...just you wait and see what happens!

I think about this, too.

When its happening, as it currently is for you at the moment, its difficult not to obsess or put distance because its too close.

I will always remember the flower deliveries, etc.

The fake promises of our Happy Future "together".
Then, what?

The POS was cj's *man in the box*...he was not REAL.

He's a Whack Job & a POS!

Pamper yourself today & continue to do so; take care of YOU/YOUR health...keep posting...remember that everything does NOT stay static -- esp. with an N.

Its that alluring & seductive & totally FAKE *N Honeymoon* phase!

Its the dizzying *High* before the *Crash* & before his mask falls away to become HER N Nightmare.

(((((huge hugs, sweetie))))


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
downfall
♀ Member
Member # 7430
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, November 24th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ouch

Try to remember that the best things in life are free (or relatively inexpensive). Like your SANITY.

Your day for wonderful vacations will come; you'll feel proud because you earned it and did it on your own. You won't have to have "slept" with someone to get it.

Big hugs and many positive thoughts.

[This message edited by downfall at 1:05 PM, November 24th (Saturday)]


Dday June 16 2005: Separated 2/06 Divorced 3/09

Ah, but she can't take you any way
You don't already know how to go ~ Eagles


Posts: 3048 | Registered: Jun 2005
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 4:12 PM, November 24th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I *know* that this is a really DUMB Question to post here:

Why is it that when our gut is *screaming*, "LIAR", we still have such a difficult time believing our OWN perception v. the N's?

I need to go back & read about gaslighting "LIARS", again.


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 7:30 PM, November 24th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dream,
Thanks for this link:
http://www.ultimate-self.com/

All the articles I read about the NPD (including, Identifying Mr or Ms Wrong, Heartbreakers, etc.) fit my STBXPDW to the tee. Oh my f**cking stars...
...It never f**cking ends. Ugghhhhh...

BoB


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
discombobulated
♀ Member
Member # 6580
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, November 24th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Excellent, excellent info here, everyone! When I get frustrated, I have to come here and remind myself that WH SA stbx is also NPD - which calms me down. There is no reasoning with him. He would rather bankrupt himself thasn take care of his obligations. I have to remind myself that talking doesn't reach him, rational logic is useless and I just wear myself out trying to deal with him. Thanks for this place to re-center in reality.

You all are strong, amazing women!


BS - age 52- married 27 years, in IC, support groups
WH - age 57 - sex addict/porn addict, NPD
Children 2 boys, 19 & 16
D-day #1 2/2/05, D-day #2: 1/22/06
R 4/21/05, but that was another lie, just a game.
D-day #3 11/06
Divorce final may 09

Posts: 2151 | Registered: Mar 2005 | From: Florida
discombobulated
♀ Member
Member # 6580
Default  Posted: 7:38 PM, November 24th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Also, it my first NPD-free thanksgiving and it was sooooo relaxe dand enjoyable! I spent it with a normal family and evefryone was lovely.


BS - age 52- married 27 years, in IC, support groups
WH - age 57 - sex addict/porn addict, NPD
Children 2 boys, 19 & 16
D-day #1 2/2/05, D-day #2: 1/22/06
R 4/21/05, but that was another lie, just a game.
D-day #3 11/06
Divorce final may 09

Posts: 2151 | Registered: Mar 2005 | From: Florida
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