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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: The N.P.D. Thread Part IV
downfall
♀ Member
Member # 7430
Default  Posted: 10:40 AM, December 6th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One short business trip and there are pages and pages to catch up on!!!

NC- thanks for sharing the little one. She made me smile. What a beautiful little thing she is.

IDB - I found myself stuck in the "devil you know" theory for a bit. What broke that for me was there is a 3rd option. No devil at all!!! I found taking the time to dig and learn about myself was more important than being involved with someone.

LL - Yes my father was an alcoholic and my mother shows many female N traits. Though I always knew both parties were self-absorbed and left me to be the adult, it took me a long time to realize how that effected the decisions I made in a negative manner.

BoB - excellent decision and WTG on sticking with it!

Debbie - welcome and remember no contact is vital. Explore every avenue you can to obtain your child support that has no direct contact with him. Usually your state departments can assist you. I agree with LL that you need to continue to work towards not needing ANYTHING from him including financial support.

((hugs)) everyone and many positive thoughts.

DF


Dday June 16 2005: Separated 2/06 Divorced 3/09

Ah, but she can't take you any way
You don't already know how to go ~ Eagles


Posts: 3048 | Registered: Jun 2005
Longlost
♀ Member
Member # 16177
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, December 6th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((NoC)))--great minds, eh?

Bizarro gave me an ultimatum, too. I had to give up my sweetheart or him. I made the wrong choice. Tell ya what, though. I did learn from it. NOBODY ever pulled that ultimatum crap on me again. Not even Bizarro. If they even tried, they were GONE! I think it's a pretty good rule! Anyone says, "Look here. It's either XXX or ...." and I ZAP 'em. Just like that!


Wisdom and pain are not mutually exclusive.
____________________________
Barn's burnt down--
Now I can see the moon.
--Mizuta Masahide

Posts: 288 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: West of Bizarro World
Longlost
♀ Member
Member # 16177
Default  Posted: 10:51 AM, December 6th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Though I always knew both parties were self-absorbed and left me to be the adult, it took me a long time to realize how that effected the decisions I made in a negative manner.

Me, too. I'm still having a hard time accepting it. "They" tell us that children of alcoholics have no sense of self and are codependent. I don't fit that mold. I've always had a VERY strong sense of self, and I refused to enable my mother's drinking, finally refusing to even speak to her when she drank. HOWEVER, there were still long-term effects, and I'm working hard to understand them now because I plan to live to a very ripe old age and get on a LOT of people's nerves before I die, and I am NOT going to let anything get in my way if I can help it!


Wisdom and pain are not mutually exclusive.
____________________________
Barn's burnt down--
Now I can see the moon.
--Mizuta Masahide

Posts: 288 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: West of Bizarro World
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, December 6th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome, Debbie, and huge hugs!

Wow, lots of aha! similarities in your story, too.

How is your health...you mentioned Lupus dx.

Why can't the CS be straight out deducted from his paycheck by the court & sent to you as you get an RO since the chickenshit has threatened you?

I've been having a red "butterfly" rash off/on across my face & yearly sun "allergy" on my hands n arms...& I don't want to tell my doc. I guess I simply don't wanna know at this time. Denial. Me: Mrs. Avoidant personality. But, I just cannot bear another shard of BAD News so I'll live in my cocoon for now.

No alcoholism in N's immediate family & he CAN drink *normally*, Ll. However, on his mother's side there is a TON of PDs/bipolar/weirdness...on father's side severe OCD, & N has it ALL.

I now have "another way" to *communicate* with him ...this is great-- so I don't have to HEAR his voice.


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 1:31 PM, December 6th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((debbie))) Mine has similar abusive comments and sentiments. He must, however, consider himself as a normal person who is just so inflamed by my personality that I have made him violent/abusive/mean.

Two years after he became physically abusive. He refers to this as an accident. It was not at all accidental. I was running for the phone because he first had me pinned down, then he threw me down the hall, then threw me down the hall again when I was able to get up. Since there was no more hall to throw me down but there was a wall, he pushed me into the wall, then stood over me and caught his breath. Once he caught his breath, he dragged me outside. Nothing about that was accidental.

Now he says things like, "I'm not threatening you or anything, but I just feel like clocking you in the head."

How do you deal? One day at a time. Don't expect to be better and recover quickly. Once the immediate danger is removed, you've still got years and years of residual damage left to heal.

[This message edited by veritas at 1:32 PM, December 6th (Thursday)]


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
MilqueToast
♂ Member
Member # 1850
Default  Posted: 2:45 PM, December 6th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sadtoo,

I'm an long time member here so I remember you and your situation from a few years ago. (I also refreshed my memory by reading your profile). I do have a question though; I have been following this thread, and understand about your current legal troubles with your XNPDH, but unless I got something wrong, why do you have an email he wrote this month? I may have missed it if you and OW#1 communicate now, since he now has an OW#2, but if she is sharing these things with you is that really healthy? Wouldn't it be best to distance from all that? (Not bashing you, just really I don't understand.)


Posts: 454 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Midwest
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 4:26 PM, December 6th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Longlost: As part of the poll, neither of my parents was alcoholic. My mother was a rage-aholic, I suspect my grandmother is NPD, and my father was passive-aggressive.

As to what you were saying about Debbie's life not being over yet, so true. I was just arguing about this with a friend the other day. He told me that I had wasted the best years of my life on an asshole. I told him that that was not true; I was looking forward to having good years and hoped that the nightmare years would be behind me. He said I was rationalizing. I just can't imagine being that pessimistic about life. He's 46, 10 years older than I am, and he thinks the best years of his life are gone? Sheesh...


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
NoControl
♀ Member
Member # 14961
Default  Posted: 5:54 PM, December 6th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Downfall & good to see you again!

Veritas, sounds like your friend wants to make you feel bad so you'll leave WH & go to friend! That's not a very nice way for him to "convince" you...plus, doesn't he know you've heard it all before- the mindfucking stuff- being married to an N? I couldn't agree more- the best years of our lives are FAR from over! He's depressing me dude!


"I Became Insane With Long Intervals of Horrible Sanity" -E.A. Poe

Posts: 483 | Registered: Jun 2007
itsabattle
♀ Member
Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 7:43 PM, December 6th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Deb - it is difficult to see the wood for the trees when you are deeply involved in such a difficult situation. Remember the person you once were? You can be that strong again. Is there any chance you will be able to return to work? Is there anyone who can look after your son or is there a nursery? I am only suggesting this because in my own experience it was work that enabled me to be financially independent as well as giving me back some of my identity. It is all about finding yourself again.

There is nobody in my family with alcholism. In counselling I had to look at my relationship with my father, in that the shame I felt about my failed marriage was due to the high standards he had set. I don't know why I let the freak's behaviour affect me for so long but it is something to due with these high standards I have for myself.

Another question that occurred to me is how many of our freaks were married before? And how many lied about this when they met us? There does seem to be rather a pattern emerging.

I saw my ex yesterday and AGAIN he tried to talk to me. Do you know what my over-riding emotion is when I look at him and his life? Pity.
I am sad that someone lives their life like he does. He is a silly man and I feel sorry that his parents have caused him to be like this. I don't understand why he keeps wanting to talk to me and part of me wants to make his life better. I wish I could. He is a very damaged person and this makes me sad. He will never know what happiness is whereas I become happier as each day passes. I wonder if this is another stage in my letting go of him. Has anyone else had this feeling?


Posts: 1233 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: england
Threnody
♀ Member
Member # 1558
Default  Posted: 7:59 PM, December 6th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Itsa, yes. I felt pity for my X. I also felt rage. The two emotions see-sawed for a couple of years. Eventually I hit indifference. I didn't even think about him, or anything associated him, for a couple of years.

Then I started triggering a little and signed up with SI. Then I was okay for a few more years, then started triggering again. That's what brought me back this summer. And within a few weeks, he was trying to contact me.

The pity can help. It sounds evil to say this, but it can help you dehumanize him. I think the principle characteristic all NPD victims share is that they are overwhelmingly empathetic and sympathetic people. In order to further along your detachment, you need to stop having empathy or sympathy for him. The easiest way to do this is to somehow dehumanize him in your eyes. Make him a pathetic piece of furniture that squeaks whenever someone sits on it. *chuckle*

It's hard going. I won't lie to you. You're going to think you're still going crazy, to some extent. But at the same time, you will feel new life just flooding into your heart and mind. Every day spent away from him is a healing day. And then one day, you're healed. You'll still have stuff to deal with, but it's not all that bad in comparison to what you've already been through.

((((itsa)))) You're doing good, girl. I'm proud of you.


“If you don't like my opinion of you, you can always improve.” ~ Ashleigh Brilliant
"Great love requires determination." ~ tryingtwo
"Don't try to win over the haters, you're not the jackass whisperer." ~ Brene Brown

Posts: 14039 | Registered: Jun 2003 | From: Middle-of-Diddly, TX
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 8:18 PM, December 6th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((Itsa)))) Every day away from STBXPDW is a good day. I see more and more of the dysfunctioning and my desire to stay away from it grows with each passing moment. It does get better. Things change. It's slow, but it's good !!! It's really good. Remember the Phoenix. Or a flower in the spring.

So, speaking of the Disordered...

Here down on the BoBeLiNa RaNcH, more of the same. DD8 starts texting me on my way home from work, with "I love you"'s and "When will you be home?"s. I get home and she calls. She and DD13 are at a friends house who's mom has been chuming around with STBXPDW since the kids and I left in July. I've always liked this ladie, her husband and their DD who hangs with DD13. But I am wary of her as she hangs with STBXPDW.
I say to DD to have ladie bring her and her sister home. It's about 5:45PM.
Apparently, STBXPDW worked this evening. STBXPDW had ladie pick up DDs from school and had made plans for ladie's DD and our DDs to go to my SIL house (duplex with STBXPDW) to get haircuts and dye jobs. And then for my DDs to stay overnight at STBXPDW (with no STBXPDW at home till after midnight). I got this info from talking with DDs and ladie. Hmmmmmmm...
Well, that's cool that she picked up DDs, and its cool that DDs were going to get hair done, but why on a nite when they are expected home with me at 6:30PM. Kids had called at 6:45PM to tell me of these plans that STBXPDW had arranged. They stay at STBXPDW from after school to 8PM on the next day. That would have been a better day to arrange this I'd think?.
Anyways,
I go and pick up my DDs from the ladies house. DD13 is not happy. So we start talking. And she's ticked cause everbodys plans got changed because of ME. Hmmmmmmm...
Well, this is the really hard part cause now I feel I have to explain what has happened and yet not say bad things about STBXPDW. So, I explained it that the cause of this "confusion" wasn't DDs, mine, or the ladies doing. That these weren't DDs, mine, or the ladies "fault". That this "confusion" had come about because of STXPDW's actions. I explained that STBXPDW knew of the agreement for DDs to be home at 6:30PM. That STBXPDW had chosen to make other plans and to not notify me.
As per her behaviors, STBXPDW had made this uncomfortable for ladie and I as we both had been fed or not fed erroneous info/no info.
When I'd picked up DDs I did say to ladie that I was sorry that there was this "confusion" and that I wasn't mad at her or taking issue with her. I let her know that this "confusion" lay with STBXPDW.
So, again, another example of "their" behaviors. Oh yeah, there's also a snow advisory tonight. LOL. Again.
On my way to pick up DDs I slid off an intersection and hit a snow bank. Vehicle and I are OK, but I think the snow bank got a little banged up. LOL.

((((Tribe))))

BoB

ETA: Cause I can be lame with spelling and stuff.

[This message edited by bobelina at 8:23 PM, December 6th (Thursday)]


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 9:59 PM, December 6th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow:
--------------------------------
OMG..just got it..they do not "love".. at all!
http://groups.msn.com/NARCISSISTICPERSONALITYDISORDER/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=446171&LastModified=4675651042800001625

--------------------------------
From: GrowingStrong (Original Message) Sent: 12/5/2007 11:16 PM
I just posted earlier about seeing my x at the mall... and while sitting here playing
spider solitaire my mind floated around various thoughts.... and in thinking about
my x moving on so fast to the next spouse..as do all of the n's.... it just suddenly
hit me full force.... they replace spouses like I replace curtains with each passing
season...without any real feeling! It's no more to them than just time for a "change"....!... there is no "love" involved in anything they do!!

It came to me after thinking the thought.... "nothing in his life or world ever changes... he just
replaced me is all... but nothing else changed for him at all...".... and that's when it came
to me about my changing out curtains, or light bulbs or anything else in our lives.

That's the equivalent of what they do with people... just switch 'em out.

We victims on the other hand... LOVE FULLY AND DEEPLY with all our heart and soul.. and
so when we get changed OUT... we hurt... we feel tossed, thrown away... which is exactly
what was done to us... like a burned out lightbulb. And with no feeling on their part...
And our feelings that are true and run so deep consume us and makes it hard to comprehend and understand the reality of there NOT being the same feelings or sense of loss inside of them....

They are not like US... at all. And until we get a grip on that... we will continue to bleed
and hurt... needing, wanting, and expecting them to "feel" things like we do.

They don't... at all. It just is not in them.

There is no real "feelings" in them. They "talk" it... but it's all just words... and joy they express at getting their needs met... like any child does... but there is no feelings!

We fall for their words... and give their words OUR feelings and emotions.

That is what they take from us.. that is what they suck out of us.... our feelings, our emotions into their empty hollow words.... and it's facing the truth of the hollowness of their words when it's over that causes us so much pain... we were drained empty.... helping them create a lie.

I see it all so differently now...

Does this makes sense to anyone else? Do you think I hit on something?

Before... it hurt so much to realise he "never loved me"... because I still equated him
as someone capable of feeling love. Now, I understand that he is not. And it does
not hurt anymore.

I finally see it! It wasn't me. It was just his emptiness.

It's like giving all our love and emotions to a stuffed animal...and then feeling
broken hearted because it does not return what we gave. We pulled the string
and it said... "I love you"... but it was just words, and our own emotions....

I feel so much more clear now.. finally. My emotions are mine again... and I can
now be strong enough to give them to someone real next time.
--------------------------------

BoB


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 10:35 PM, December 6th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hmmmmmmmm...

...Should we call our Tribe the "Lightbulbs" or the "Toasters"?...

...Hmmmmmmm..........

BoB

[This message edited by bobelina at 11:33 PM, December 6th (Thursday)]


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
s.squirrel
♀ Member
Member # 14742
Default  Posted: 4:51 AM, December 7th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BoB
I like the analogy of loving a stuffed animal that just can't respond.
Another analogy:
Pouring out love on H is like watering the desert...
no effect.


Me BS 44
Him WS 45
sons :17, 16
daughter: 13
dday1: 6/1996..separated 1.5yr, then reconciled 1/1998
dday2: 5/7/2007
Separated at last!~10/31/2008
heading -->divorce
But he lost his job in April..so pending, pending, pending.

Posts: 280 | Registered: May 2007 | From: ohio
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, December 7th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, squirrel & BoB...I must write these 2 down & put it up in plain view.

So true, SO VERY *TRUE*!!!


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 9:00 AM, December 7th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NoControl: I am sure there is some of that, and part of it is bitterness speaking because I turned him down. Because my glass have been de-fogged, I can now see where he has a lot of narcissistic qualities as well. He is also a youth junkie, always giving me lectures on what I need to do, what books I need to read, what TV shows I need to watch, etc., and he sees this as concern for my welfare. That's why we are nothing more than casual friends -- I have had enough of mean, pushy people.

Bob: That's all I can say about your STBX.


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
s.squirrel
♀ Member
Member # 14742
Default  Posted: 9:00 AM, December 7th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The pity can help. It sounds evil to say this, but it can help you dehumanize him. I think the principle characteristic all NPD victims share is that they are overwhelmingly empathetic and sympathetic people.

Threnody
Your post was very uplifting, gave me some direction and hope--hope that I will heal from this relationship, hope knowing that I really couldn't have "done it better" or "fixed it" or "made it right". I can't.
I cannot fix it.


Me BS 44
Him WS 45
sons :17, 16
daughter: 13
dday1: 6/1996..separated 1.5yr, then reconciled 1/1998
dday2: 5/7/2007
Separated at last!~10/31/2008
heading -->divorce
But he lost his job in April..so pending, pending, pending.

Posts: 280 | Registered: May 2007 | From: ohio
Longlost
♀ Member
Member # 16177
Default  Posted: 9:06 AM, December 7th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Veritas! You GO! 'Cause here's the deal. Whoever we are...whatever our age...whatever our gender...IT'S OUR FRIGGIN' LIFE. If we choose to become someone completely different WE get to choose what to change and what to keep.

All you NPD lurkers out there: Don't like it?? Well, then, just BITE IT!

GET IT! GOT IT? GOOD!!


Wisdom and pain are not mutually exclusive.
____________________________
Barn's burnt down--
Now I can see the moon.
--Mizuta Masahide

Posts: 288 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: West of Bizarro World
Longlost
♀ Member
Member # 16177
Default  Posted: 9:18 AM, December 7th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's like giving all our love and emotions to a stuffed animal...and then feeling
broken hearted because it does not return what we gave. We pulled the string
and it said... "I love you"... but it was just words, and our own emotions....

Good one, BoB! Very helpful analogy. I do believe that some of them are capable of some kind of love, but it just can't get out. Back in the dark times, I used to feel as if I were trapped inside a balloon. Everything was there--I just couldn't get to it. Now I know that it wasn't me. It was Bizarro that was trapped. Those "normal" human feelings could never quite get out of him.

Now I think of Bizarro as a kind of Pinocchio creature. He WANTS to be real. He just can't. And he knows it. And that makes him very angry and defensive. It is very sad.

If my sorrow could make him real, I would give him that. I DID give him that. But no amount of love and self-sacrifice on my part (or anyone else's) can ever make him real.

I've spent enough of my life crying. And I will cry in the years to come. But now I can reach so many other things! There's no sad Pinocchio in my way. I can care about him and wish him well (well away from me) without sacrifice.


Wisdom and pain are not mutually exclusive.
____________________________
Barn's burnt down--
Now I can see the moon.
--Mizuta Masahide

Posts: 288 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: West of Bizarro World
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, December 7th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Martha Stout, & others who have studied & written extensively about NPD/Sociopaths say they do want one thing MORE than anything else from us:

*PITY*

Surprise, surprise!!


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
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