I'm so sorry that he keeps pulling this crap on you and DD. And in true N fashion, you are not consulted, but you will have to bear the reprucussions of his abuse of DD.
What was that word often used to describe these disordered characters? Hmmmmmmm...
Was it Tool? Twit? Dink? NPD Freak? Asshole? Asshat? or was it Fucktard? Hmmmmmm.....
I'm so sorry you and the kids are dealing with him.
BoB, you KNOW I'll help in any way that I can. Anytime you want me to read anything, just let send it along. It's funny, isn't it, that I learned to edit out all the emotions years before I realized Bizarro was NPD. The easiest way to deal with him was to keep him placated and stick to incontrovertible fact. And hope that he actually gave half a damn about the issue at hand. I'm confident that your poor crazy wife does care about the kids. Yeah, I know that it's hard to deduce that from her actions, but I'm sure she does love them, and that's in your favor. Approach the table very matter of factly and immediate concede that you KNOW how much she loves the kids and that their best interests are the focus of both your lives--hell, even THANK her for her concern and for the wonderful idea of meeting to make sure that everyone understands the arrangements so that the kids won't be confused.
This doesn't make you a liar or a milquetoast--it just means you're too smart to waste your energy trying to be logical and straightforward with a crazy person. Make sense?
You can probably say everything that you need to say without inciting anger if you just remember that she CANNOT accept responsibility for her actions. CANNOT. Always phrase things in a way that makes it seem that you are comiserating with her. Example: Don't say "I can't understand why you would think it's OK to come and get the kids to spend time with you when you know that you will be working and will just drop them off with someone else." Instead, say something like "I really appreciate that you are trying so hard to hold up your end of the bargain by making arrangements to entertain the kids even when you have to work late, but I don't want you to have to worry about making these arrangements, and the kids have told me that they'd much rather wait until they can actually spend that time with you, so let's talk about what we can do to make it easier for you to spend time with them when you are off."
Now, I'm not telling you not to fight like a wildcat to protect your kids. You KNOW that. I'm just telling you not to fight when you can accomplish the same things via pure rhetoric. She doesn't deserve earnest conversation and explanations, nor will she respond positively. The rhetoric is easier to dish out (once you learn to do it) and will be much, much more effective.
I am ordinarily a very honest person--too honest for my own good, really, but sincerity just doesn't work with these people. All it does is give them ammunition and set you up for more pain. I don't recommend lying--what I'm suggesting is that you present a skewed version of reality--try to perceive things as she does and present a version that she can digest and understand, and one that accomplishes the desired outcome.
Hope this makes sense.
Once you decide not to play the "game" any longer and have an attorney step in, you can go NC, and get your own life started much sooner.
When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
OC born 2001 (I didn't know)
Remarried 2008 (Happy!)
I think we have a name for their game, thanks Dream..
"Mind Fuck Chess"
Longlost has it absolutely right. Even if your wife cares not at all for the kids, you have to make the pretense to her that you think she does. It's hard to get rid of a narcissist -- you still have to tiptoe around the ego, at least until you get something permanent established. Then you can abandon all pretense and let your lawyer handle the torpedos.
I just caught up on the thread after a few days away. I had the misfortune of dealing with my freak Thursday. He was nasty and kept twisting around everything I said.
The strange part was when he made some comment about my school and I said I am already done (he knows this or should) and the degree is framed and on the wall. He wanted to see it. Then he turned to me and said "See, you didn't need me around to help at all". Say what? I never needed him, maybe that is a big part of his problem and why hooked up with his next victim, because I didn't need him. (of course through the whole thing he did all he could to undermine me)
I know it irks him that I have reached levels he could never attain.
I always hated chess and I guess now I know why.
Bob I don't negotiate with bullies and mine was that all through the divorce. I left the negotiations up to the lawyer who was able to get him and his lawyer to agree to the items of the divorce in the end. As much as you may want to avoid that route it is unlikely she will comply if it comes from you (or the 2 of you making the agreement another way). Most of the NPD seem to fear the consequences the courts can provide and that helps a bit to keep them in line. Even the really twisted ones don't really want to be in jail so they skirt the law as often as they can. anything less than the courts ability to enforce will just be another piece of paper.
Welcome newbies. Hope you find strenght from us to move through this garden of hell.
The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.
A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.
I feel once we are ever embroiled with an N, its pretty much a sort of Life Sentence IN playing Mind Fuck Chess (just as Threnody's N popped out after a 9 year hiatus ) ...sorry to be so dismal, but I feel it is like *this* in MOST cases involving an NPD because by very dint of being an N, by golly, they get to decide just WHEN THE GAME IS OVER.
'it is what it is'...& its not pretty; no, its pure EVIL!
1. I'm not legally married to him any longer. We are DIVORCED.
2. He's not living in my home.
3. I have retained my premarital property and our divorce settlement is complete.
4. I have no legal ties with him at ALL.
5. He is treated in the eyes of the law like any other common CRIMINAL on the street.
6. I don't have to depend on him for my living expenses or ANYTHING ELSE.
7. I don't have to negotiate with him on the phone, through email or through any other means of communication.
Yes. He sits in front of my house. I call the police and he's arrested. He goes to jail and charges are filed. I have another protection order. He has not been back since he's been arrested. He DOES fear going to jail.
Do you think I could have accomplished that by calling him on the phone and asking him "please don't sit in front of my house."??
Will he come back? Maybe. I'll call the police again. Charges will be filed again. Do I have to spend more money? Maybe. But so what? It's better than living in limbo and continuing to be manipulated.
I'm certainly not saying that my advice is the perfect fix, but it is the best approach. How's your way working???
He also just sent me an email asking if I could meet him at the barber shop with my son so that he can get him a haircut...
So far, I haven't answered any of his calls or emails. I'm trying to keep my composure and not rile him up...
Should I do full NC? Honestly, I am not comfortable being around him right now. Just ignore his attempts at communication???
We are in this together, as we are all involved on this board. Please kiss and make nice. We need all of us here.
Just my 3 1/2 cents.
As I have already mentioned, I am not at great liberty currently to discuss *on the board* just HOW my way is *working* out, but rest assured -- it IS.
ETA: hugs, debbie. and, I wish you *peace* & support.
BoB~ Thank you...& I could not *agree* with you MORE that we all do need each other, & differing input at such a complex sitch here.
[This message edited by dreamlife at 9:45 AM, December 10th (Monday)]
Seriously, you are some really cool people. Them there Ns have lost some amazing Ladies with their follies.
BoB: Remember NC= no new hurt. I have found that not letting my emotions show, including my frustration, works best. Spin is so vital in continued communication when you have children involved. Remember with a N their ego is all important. LL gave you great spin wording there. I take it from "this is no longer a M but a business" stance. Always address what is in it for them.
Lied2: I heard the "see you never needed me" thing too. My reply was the things I needed you for you never understood. And it sucks that they don't and never will understand what we really needed them for.
The lawyer vs no lawyer thing I feel really depends on whether or not your N is malignant. Personally I save it for the huge issues. My N does not like *professional* settings so the lawyer's office makes him extremely uncomfortable. My N is not well versed in the laws and relies on others to tell him the *facts*. In my reading of other's stories, they are forced to be a the lawyer's every other day. I do feel I am *lucky* in this aspect.
There are no winners when dealing with a N. There is only surviving and healing.
Many positive thoughts for all.
[This message edited by downfall at 10:25 AM, December 10th (Monday)]
Ah, but she can't take you any way
You don't already know how to go ~ Eagles
Secondly just as the kids were getting ready to go the hoover came on unexpectedly. I said that was spooky! He said it must be all the electricity around him. He then said it is probably because of all of the bullshit surrounding him. Was this a moment of self-awareness?? I was stunned that he had even this moment of clarity. The thing is it left me unsettled. Is this the nearest thing to an apology I will ever have? Is he aware of what he does? Does he feel bad for what he does? I know there are no answers but ...
I have put his behaviour down to his condition but can he really help himself? I think yes...
Keep strong everyone.
I told my N that my relatives are asking HOW we are *doing*...what should I say?
What little note should I write in my Xmas cards to them?
N responded, "Just tell them all that 'everything's FINE with US'
Well, it is not...and he wants me to perpetuate his falsehood?
I don't think so...
BoB~ What did you have for breakfast? You and Chloe @ the "kiddie table"...
Thanks for *smoothing* things out.
ETA: itsa, you slay me...'pet freak'...will now become a part of MY vocabulary!
I'm trying to stay strong...united we stand, right?
[This message edited by dreamlife at 10:57 AM, December 10th (Monday)]
I'm a bit passive-aggressive. The first year I just sent out all the Christmas cards signed Me & the Kids. No explanation. Just left him off.
Honestly, most respected the obvious and didn't ask.
Now, downfall...why didn't I think of *that*?!
(Actually I was really CURIOUS as to what N would say about it, to be honest.)
There's next year...