DD~ that was very clever of you to do.
Talk about "compare & contrast" lessons!
OW#1 and XNPDH were arguing as to weather their daughter should have a night light. The mother believed she should, and XNPD thought she shouldn't.
Her email to him after the initial arguement:
Some interesting reading about bedtime, written by professionals-
Particular quote from this site, which was written by professionals, concerning night lights:
Do a quick check before you say goodnight
Before turning out the light, check that your child has done all the things she might call out about later. Has she had a drink? Been to the toilet? Brushed her teeth?
Turn on a night-light if this makes your child feel more comfortable.
_____ is not a Marine recruit- letting her have a night light for comfort does not make her a 'baby' as you stated. When a child is going back and forth between two homes her comfort at the place she stays least often should be carefully considered with compassion and love- if letting her have a night light makes her happy why would you deny her that?
After her weekend with you she spoke several times about being afraid of the dark and having bad dreams, if a night light would alleviate that fear, why would you deny her. Don't you realize that truly borders on cruelty? Do you want her to think that you are cruel and unyeilding? or loving and compassionate- it all comes down to what kind of father you want to be of course and it is not spoiling her or making her a 'baby' it is helping her to feel just as secure at your house as she does at mine. If you want her to trust you- she needs to know that you are willing to meet her needs and that you will be supportive and compassionate - Don't you realize that if you aren't- then her ability to trust that you truly care about her will be damaged, it will affect your future relationship with her. Regardless of how you feel about me- don't take it out on her, don't be so bullheaded that you deny her what she needs just to 'show me', that's wrong and a grave injustice to your daughter.
His response to email:
OW#1's full name; first, middle, and last),
You never cease to amaze me how ingnorant you can be! You refer to an article for me to read to explain your reasoning for allowing _____ to have a night light when she goes to bed and your too shallow to read the entire article to realize what your doing wrong as a parent. Or you're too confused to understand what your reading in the first place. Let me make it easy for you. The word is ROUTINE!!! Read the article yourself ___ and learn something! _____ hasn't needed a night light for over a year and now, all of a sudden, she needs a night light and doesn't want to go to bed alone. Take a second ___. Can you figure this one out or do you need me to spell it out for you? Look at what you've subjected _____ to recently. She is a child and children like a regular routine. You've managed to turn her world completely inside out by once again moving and separating _____ from her own personal possessions and friends and your too interested in finding a way to appease her than solving the problem at hand. I guess that defines your relationship with _____. You would rather be her playmate than a parent. This is simple ___. You should keep _____ to her regular routine. We DO NOT allow her to have a night light. She doesn't need one. If she does have one, it takes longer for her to fall asleep. We DO NOT allow her to sleep with us. She is not a baby and shouldn't be treated as one. She needs to learn to sleep by herself. We DO NOT allow her to urinate in her bed at night. This is a no brainer ___. I can't believe you allow her to do this!
You obviously have no clue to the relationship between _____ and I. I am her father and we are very close. I truly believe she 'trusts' me and respects me. Do you think a child will respect a parent that allows them to do virtually anything they want? What do you think _____ will think of you? Do you not want her to grow up? Look in the mirror and solve the problem ___.
Another concern I have, which you still haven't responded to, is the fact you allow _____ to frequent fast food restaurants. Have you not noticed the weight she is gaining? She is gaining too much weight. This is not normal for her age and is not healthy.
I can sum up this e-mail very easily in referring to the first line of your e-mail you sent me. You would rather view my parenting skills as being overbearing treating _____ as a 'recruit' than understand what direction _____ needs. Apparently your incapable of parenting _____ and would rather appease her because it's easier. I believe you also prefer to depict me in a cruel manner towards _____ in order to make up for your inadequacies. Do you think giving me the 'finger' and calling me a 'dumb ass' while _____ watched this in mature antic of your was the depiction of a good parent?
Please keep in mind ___ that my concern is certainly not for you personally. It's how you parent my daughter and what you subject her to. My concern is for what affects her.
You could use some parenting classes!!
After the BOLD "routine" the rest of the email is written in a large font and is ALL bold. He types in a very bizarre style like he thinks it looks cool or something. Then at the end, he signs his name like this:
*~~John~~* (not his real name)
I think that I REALLY F'in WEIRD!!!
All of that psycho babble and then he ends the email with this, "Hey babe, look how cool I sign my name type of thing."
I'm going to go PUKE!!!
[This message edited by sadtoo at 3:25 PM, November 9th (Friday)]
When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
OC born 2001
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)
Your NPDX is a real monster, Sad. I wrote you a long note and somehow lost it. Now, I'm too braindead to do it again. Just wanted you to know that I hear you, and I care.
I thought about all of you great people (incl. me) with a NPD monster in your lives. Each one is worse than the next! How did we ever make it a day with these monsters? What were we thinking? But, it's done -- they are who they are -- and we can't do a thing about it. Except look at ourselves. The shell that these NPD monsters left behind.
People like Threnody (who I had the pleasure of meeting IRL) got away from her NPD monster (mostly) and has a great, "normal" life with great "normal" kids and a great "normal" guy. But she is still here posting. That demon person will leave behind a scar on all of us.
During one of my "conversations that never go anywhere" with my STBXN he mentioned that his IC said that I exhibit classical passive-aggressive behavior.
I thought about it, objectively. Even though I would never admit it to him (which is really a sign of P/A behavior in itself) I was thinking that... yes... I do think I am P/A. It is a defense mechanism that I picked up over the 16 years I was married to the guy.
But I never used to be P/A. I never USED to have depression. I USED to be "normal". "Normal" being, of course, a relative term.
I think I am rambling. But it just bugs me more than being in a horrible D situation - a SAHM with no job, money or income with three hurting kids ... that he took away my "normalcy".
((((All of us NPD Targets))))
[This message edited by DD123 at 10:00 PM, November 9th (Friday)]
"Women are like tea bags...you never know how strong they are until they are in hot water!!!"
I know the huge problems he is facing getting that specialty atty. But, I've decided to be cooperative, not to hold up the legalities.
I feel like Chief Joseph saying, 'I shall fight no more'.
I will see my atty soon & firm up the terms & feel its best that I be the one to initiate the Legal Seperation.
Its not that this is what is best for him, or...'awww, poor lil baby, he has to go 5 hours each way to see his atty'...its what is best for ME so that I can indeed-- Move On.
Oh, and when I went to the post office to gather up my mail, he had sent me a lovely Wedding Anniv. card. & signed it: 'love always, & all ways, "psycho" (well, ya know!LOL)_____
[This message edited by dreamlife at 5:02 PM, November 10th (Saturday)]
but I read a really good article about "liars" and it describes my STBXH to a T! See what you think:
Everyone lies at least occasionally. But some people lie as a matter of course. What makes someone a persistent liar?
Deception comes easily to highly narcissistic people because since childhood they have been deceiving themselves about who they are. Their external image, and internal grandiose self-image, are so important that they will resort to any deception to maintain them. He (or she) surrounds himself with a protective wall of pretence, role-playing, and misinformation. The more extreme the narcissist, the more he hides behind lies. Lies shield him from knowing, and prevent others from discovering, the fallible, vulnerable, imperfect individual he actually is but cannot admit to being.
He cannot be honest about the most basic thing—who he is. He is an impostor who misrepresents himself and uses deception as a weapon—for winning, for putting one over on others, for fooling them, and to prove his cleverness and superiority. His dishonesty is more than just everyday evasions or white lies; it is persistent, extensive and flagrant deceit. His lies are meant to induce others into believing his conjuring trick, to convince them that his view of the world and himself is the accurate one.
Yet, he can seem so trustworthy, so convincingly sincere. He can look you straight in the eye while he lies and not flinch. When asked a question, a lie may well be his first, automatic response. He makes promises, and may even mean them at the time, but he rarely keeps them. His excuses for not keeping them are works of art. A narcissist feels no guilt for lying, only a sense of failure if he is caught, and increased superiority when a lie is successful, because he has so easily fooled someone.
Lying serves several other purposes:
* it can conceal misbehaviour and faults.
* avoid punishment and disapproval.
* give freedom from conforming to others’ standards while seeming to.
* hide a lack of concern for others without alienating them.
* keeps up the appearance of co-operation and ethical behaviour.
* keeps others at a distance to limit their control or influence.
* is a source of power that negates the person lied to and gives the teller control.
Narcissists are rarely open. Even when not telling outright lies he confuses people with “spin”, doublespeak, muddled logic, contradictions, or he avoids certain issues and subjects, or pretends views and feelings that don’t exist. He is often a skilled arguer, a sophist who uses false premises and quibbling, unsound, argument to rationalize his behaviour and hide the truth.
Sometimes his lies are not deliberate but just an instant response, the first thing that comes into his head with no conscious thought behind it. Often, he simply does not make sense. His communication is bound to be distorted because he doesn’t really know himself, what he feels, or what he wants. He may for example say that he wants something that he is expected to want (such as children) without every thinking much about the reality of it. And when he gets his wish and finds it is not really to his liking after all, he quickly loses interest. He is often therefore contradictory, confusing and impossible to really get to know.
When a narcissist has enough ambition and intelligence he is frequently successful and then his dishonesty may border on unscrupulousness. He may ruthlessly use others to advance himself, undermine competitors, cheat, steal, defraud or break laws in minor or major ways.
Loving a liar/narcissist is a confusing and often demoralizing experience. He uses words as a means to achieve his ends and they frequently bear no relationship to his feeling. So, he may tell people, and especially a partner, what they want to hear without flinching at his own blatant insincerity. His performance is often so polished that he fools not only a potential partner, but her friends and family as well, so that no one ever warns her that this guy is not what he seems. At first, he uses the “good guy” image to con his way into a woman’s affections but the relationship has an artificial basis. She does not love an authentic man, but a pretend one.
He is always trying to “put something over” on his partner, to keep her at a distance, to keep her from really knowing or understanding him, to keep himself in the “one-up” position in the relationship, and prove that he is smarter and the one in control. His philosophy is “what she doesn’t know won’t hurt her”. So, he will lie about the most trivial and inconsequential things, denying his partner the right to even the most basic information from him.
He lies about anything and everything to the point where his partner might doubt her perception, his sanity, or her own. His lies inflict a deliberate delusion on his partner, which he expects her to accept without question. And no matter how often he lies, he still expects her to trust and adore him.
Even if he doesn’t tell outright lies, he withholds information, which is usually harder to detect than outright lies. He has secrets and hides things, perhaps because he is afraid other people might use information against him. He assumes others have the same sort of motives that he does.
A partner might catch him in dozens of lies, deceptions, evasions and possibly even infidelity, but he is indignant and hurt if she doesn’t trust him. He will in fact most likely swear that he is honest to a fault, is open and trustworthy and never tells lies and if she thinks otherwise, then she must be paranoid, “twisted”, or mentally ill.
Trust and honesty are essential for healthy relationships. Being lied to feels like a double betrayal—the behaviour that was lied about and the lie itself. Being lied to makes us feel disrespected and vulnerable. To be intentionally told that something is other than what it is feels like an assault on our judgement, perception, and ability to assess our world. Lying is a hostile act, withholding the facts of reality to someone who has a right to them.
Lying contaminates any relationship but perhaps the cruellest deception is to lead someone on and deceive them about the depth and sincerity of a commitment to the relationship, which is why infidelity is triply painful (being fooled, betrayed, and denied ).
© Ultimate-self.com 2007 All rights reserved.
He cannot be honest about the most basic thing—who he is. He is an impostor who misrepresents himself
DD123...excellent post, and probably applicable in a lot of cases to those experiencing infidelity ~ especially the part about how DAMAGING lies and/or CONTINUED lying is!!
Its maddening to know the 'truth' behind all of the N's lies. My WTFH has lied about the most *outrageous* things, told the most *outrageous* stories, and believes that all who read/hear them actually BELIEVE him!!
Of course, confronting an N with their blatant *lies* will get you NOWHERE, and fast.. I have been met with the usual defensiveness and an occasional "fuck you" for confronting with these 'tall tales.'
They *are* so sick.
You rest up for now! Get ready for the rest of your life.
If the bastard bothers you again, can you just point your index directly at him, say "BANG! You're DEAD!" and walk away????
Happy, happy, joy, joy!! Itsa's got her house and NMF can't do a thing about it!!
DD~ great post about LIARS!
Thnx so much. Fits mine to a "T".
Oh, I got a dozen lovely roses delivered yesterday...hmmmm...because N thought I needed some 'cheering up'!
I cannot wait to initiate the Seperation NOW.
I highly recommend IC. We need it after this.
Mainly, we are GOOD.
We are KIND.
And, they are evil punks & freaks!
In fact, I ran down a list of "things" that I must *BE* (bi-polar, co-dependent, etc) with my paid-listener. She was seriously amused, and said "jonesey ~ there's nothing wrong with you. You're just *nice*."
She backed it up by saying "people that are any of *those* things (on my list) are rarely introspective enough (or at all) to actually examine their own motives and/or reactions to 'things.'
gns1......I have had a REALLY hard time accepting that I was a "victim" of this too. My paid-listener CONSTANTLY points out his abusive ways (and *how* they are abusive) and it almost makes me feel like a weakling.
I try REALLY hard not to see myself as a "victim" of this, but in reality, we ARE 'victims.' I MUCH prefer to think of it as a "survivor" though.
The N's *use* people ~ pure and simple ~ they USE them, for whatever purpose. I was never a 'person' to my WTFH! I was nothing more than a possession, a "thing", not unlike the television!!
That feeling of being 'duped' causes anger and a lot of confusion. It pisses me off that he took advantage of my compassionate nature, but that is what HE needed!!
But knowing *now* what I KNOW about him, he will again present himself as the "man in the box" to someone else, and will repeat the EXACT scenario he did here with me. But each time he picks up and moves on, he takes less integrity, character, and family WITH him.. He burns ALL bridges when he reinvents himself.
itsabattle....you're probably experiencing a *withdrawal* from all the stress hormones that have been circulating in ya for so long!! Not unlike the 'runners high' from endorphines, that they get almost addicted to!! Its *exhausting* for you physically though, so rest up and enjoy!
dreamlife....I'm glad that whatever decision you make is for YOU...who cares what he thinks! Make ALL of your decisions for YOUR best interest!!
I am also beginning to realise how much I havn't done for myself over the last decade. Before I met him I was interested in so many things and it all just melted away. I am enjoying finding out my interests again but I am also nervous and anxious about lots of things.
I think I have overlooked my feelings about surviving an npd freak. I have just coped on an almost daily basis but now faced with the actual uphill recovery I feel quite daunted. I hope all of this is normal!
Bob - I agree we were all taken advantage of because we are decent people. It is disgusting to realise our decent qualities are used against us. I don't know about you but this sometimes makes me feel worse - like I was targeted and I didn't see it. I guess I just feel used...
And, I must admit that I have had screamingly good *FUN* in doing the Reverse Gaslight as well. Tee Hee!
DD~ I'm still marveling at how superb that LIARS post was, too!