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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: The N.P.D. Thread Part IV
IDeserveBetter
Member
Member # 16602
Default  Posted: 3:18 PM, December 21st (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I need opinions please!

I saw WH's car near the SPCA this afternoon. I drove around by there and there are no other businesses that he would really be going into.

So when we both came home today, I said I hope you aren't getting me an animal for Christmas. He said why and I said I thought that should be discussed ahead of time and that the person getting the animal should be the one picking it out, seeing what the animal's personality is, etc.

He started cursing at me that he can never do any f*ing thing right. He was going to get me a kitten as a surprise. We already have a cat and this would be a second one. On the one hand, it would be nice for my cat to have another to play with, on the other hand, two cats to take to the vet, to get all the original shots, to clean up after, etc. Plus I really would want to pick out my own if I decided to get one. AND if we split up, I've been thinking about getting a small dog, so that it would bark if anyone was around the house.

Was I wrong and mean to say anything? Was he wrong to spring a pet on me?

What do you think?

Now, he's cursing f this and f that F*ck getting me anything anyway. I told him I didn't want to exchange presents this year anyway. Now I'm the bad guy he can never do anything right for!

He acts as if everything is just fine and normal between us, asking me what's wrong all the time, talking about the future.... God help me if I say anything to the contrary.


Posts: 754 | Registered: Oct 2007
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 4:12 PM, December 21st (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((KT)))
Ns are noturious for contract breaking, for not being able to follow a plan etc. It's not you, it's him. It's the N way.

(((IDB)))
Ns cannot take anything that contradicts them. You did nothing wrong by trying to discuss something with him. Discussion includes give and take. Ns are incabable of this. Could you have said things in a more positive, cordial way? Perhaps. It wouldn't have mattered though. To the N you were contradicting their grandiosity and omnipotence.

Hope this helps.

BoB


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
IDeserveBetter
Member
Member # 16602
Default  Posted: 4:35 PM, December 21st (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bob,

That may be true, about contradicting him, but I feel really badly now. I think he was just trying to do something nice.

I have been riding him lately. I have been negatice towards him. I am afraid to let my guard down and get hurt again. But this is because 8 weeks ago, he agreed to a contract with a MC that he would get an AA sponsor and an IC. He has done neither. He goes to AA meetings, but that is it. He's also continued to lie about where he is and getting pot. He is halfway trying.

Then he says "I have nothing. No one likes me. My kids don't respect me and my wife will never forgive me"

Never forgive him? I keep on trying to point out that I keep giving him a chance to DO the things he said he would do and he has not done them. Things are not going to go away magically by ignoring them and sweeping them under the carpet!

But I feel so sad for him right now. It is true that he can do nothing right in my eyes right now. (Except for the things he had agreed to do that would build back trust). He really did seem to want to do something nice. He said he wanted to get me something to love and cuddle because he had screwed up.


Posts: 754 | Registered: Oct 2007
downfall
♀ Member
Member # 7430
Default  Posted: 5:07 PM, December 21st (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IDB

No, No, No, No. Do not let him make this about HIM.

It would be different if you had mentioned that you WANTED a cat. Or even if he had brought up the possibility of bringing another animal into the house.

He wants you to feel guilty. After all it is this sweet little kitten - how could you be so mean.

You know how; you didn't ask for it! It is another added responsibiliy and reason to STAY. How dare he!?! He is manipulating you. He stepped over boundaries and now he wants you to feel bad?


Dday June 16 2005: Separated 2/06 Divorced 3/09

Ah, but she can't take you any way
You don't already know how to go ~ Eagles


Posts: 3048 | Registered: Jun 2005
IDeserveBetter
Member
Member # 16602
Default  Posted: 5:13 PM, December 21st (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No, No, No, No. Do not let him make this about HIM.

It's always about him. Even if I tell him how much he hurt me or one of the children with his actions, his response is usually focused on "I never do anything right according to you. I'm realizing I will be alone someday. I always knew I would be alone" etc, etc.

NOT about how terrible the thing was that HE did to US. Oh, he says he's sorry, but that takes 10 SECONDS. The rest of the time is spent feeling sorry for HIMSELF that he is such a "bad person". I don't get it, shouldn't he feel sorry for the people around him if he is a "bad person"?

Also, we have casually joked a couple of times over the last few months about our cat being spoiled and lazy and maybe she needs a playmate. But we never seriously discussed getting one, and I do remember saying I wasn't sure if I would want to do that.


Posts: 754 | Registered: Oct 2007
downfall
♀ Member
Member # 7430
Default  Posted: 6:24 PM, December 21st (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((IDB)))

Do you know how many times I've heard the line "I never do anything right according to you."??

I refuse to own it. It is NOT my fault if the N is wrong. The N being wrong is the N's problem. No one else's. I have the right to feel the way I do. (whatever that feeling is) and I have the right to BE right according to my own definitions of right and wrong. The N's definition may not match my definition and that is within his rights. But it doesn't mean I change my definition.

Ok that was probably too rambling and hopefully those peeps better with words will come along and help me out here.

Basically it boils down to what are you going to own as your issue vs his issue.


Dday June 16 2005: Separated 2/06 Divorced 3/09

Ah, but she can't take you any way
You don't already know how to go ~ Eagles


Posts: 3048 | Registered: Jun 2005
ktshadow
♀ Member
Member # 10920
Default  Posted: 7:05 PM, December 21st (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with downfall. For a very long time, I owned everything as my own issue, to the point of completely questioning my family, my choice in friends, everything I was. I am very self-reflective by nature and he played on that ten fold. I am working on the healing process right now and it is not easy. We were both in the therapy field if you can believe that and I first cannot believe that I did not recognize that I was being railroaded and second that I trusted him enough to believe that if he said it was my issue, he knew himself well enough to know it wasn't his.
Here's another question for all of you on this board. What family dynamics have you seen in relation to this type of personality? My stbfh mother, who I have always been very close to, has and maybe still does consider him to be the "good one", the perfect son. It was always a joke in his family that he was the favorite. I think that this is where this comes from....the feeling of never being accepted as anyone other than that person. I knew this about him when I married him, but was not aware of how it would manifest itself. Is this a pattern, or just specific to my stbfh???


Don't let only one person decide if you are loveable or not. Be around the ones who have already decided that you are.
I traded in my intuition for his analysis.

Posts: 152 | Registered: Jun 2006
Longlost
♀ Member
Member # 16177
Default  Posted: 7:53 PM, December 21st (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think that they sometimes use pets or even babies to keep us hanging in there. Having something else dependent on us distracts us from the problems. I dunno IDB. I think he's trying to apply superglue with a kitten applicator.

Even if that isn't the case, NOBODY SHOULD EVER GET ANYONE A PET AS A SURPRISE--ESPECIALLY AT CHRISTMAS!!!!!!

You are right. He is wrong. End of story. The less attention you pay to his ranting, the sooner it will end.

LL


Wisdom and pain are not mutually exclusive.
____________________________
Barn's burnt down--
Now I can see the moon.
--Mizuta Masahide

Posts: 288 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: West of Bizarro World
IDeserveBetter
Member
Member # 16602
Default  Posted: 9:03 PM, December 21st (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He's not speaking to me now. Ah well.

While he was being furious at me and upset, he said "we will just never get along". He says things like "we are just not compatible"

I always counter with "exactly WHO would be "compatible" with dishonesty, cheating, and addiction?"

He tries to make it so neutral, like it is not his wrongdoing or his fault, it is just that we will "never get along"

Gee, maybe we would if he would stop lying, get an IC, and stop his addiction. Hm, gosh, I bet there are tons of women who would be more happy with his actions than me!

[This message edited by IDeserveBetter at 9:06 PM, December 21st (Friday)]


Posts: 754 | Registered: Oct 2007
downfall
♀ Member
Member # 7430
Default  Posted: 9:08 PM, December 21st (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

kt

My STBXNPDH was the youngest with three older sisters. They (the sisters) often told me how much special treatment he received. He could do no wrong. He was talented. He was the male heir. Etc. There should be an article in the first thread that addresses this. I've since lost my hard drive and the links to the articles or I would post it again. It seems to be very common.


Dday June 16 2005: Separated 2/06 Divorced 3/09

Ah, but she can't take you any way
You don't already know how to go ~ Eagles


Posts: 3048 | Registered: Jun 2005
cjonesjag
♀ Member
Member # 10617
Default  Posted: 9:32 PM, December 21st (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IDB...my WTFH is an *expert* at seeking out sympathy. Some of the things he tells (or writes) to people is truly amazing. He will say something like "I'm getting a divorce." Nothing else, no reason why, and further 'messages' imply that he actually feels BAD about it.

Thing is..he doesn't, and he NEVER, EVER admits any of his own 'contributions' to the mess that HE created.

EVERYTHING around an "N" is about "them" and what they *get* from others. They over-react to almost EVERYTHING and cannot accept ANY form of criticism.

And anything other than "you're the greatest guy EVA" is considered criticism

Believe me, it is so damned easy to fall into that sympathy trap. I have an *enormous* amount of compassion for others, and still have some of it for my WTFH. They are such obviously screwed up and miserable beings, that you can't help but feel compassion for the turmoil in their brains.

You can donate yourself, your own life, your own desires, your own dreams and everything else along with it *for them*, but it will never, ever be reciprocated.

Think about what kind of a person would start an angry tirade (complete with the ever-present *F* word) towards their WIFE. What kind of a man *does* that?

And its constant, IDB, and you never really know WHAT kind of a mood their in, or what you might SAY that will piss them off. Because they cannot accept anything deeper than "Hi Honey, I love you so much, you're so perfect, I cannot live without you."

Don't fall into the trap of donating yourself to his cause.

Maintain your boundaries ~ you are demanding that he gets into AA and IC. He is NOT dumb, he is a capable person. If he WANTS to put the effort into this, he will. If he thinks he doesn't HAVE to, he won't.

They will blame you for *everything* forever. He will turn EVERYTHING around to be YOUR fault forever, if you let him.

Somebody, at some point, steps and says "no, thanks" and sends them packing.

It took me a long time to get there, and I was a lot like you. I felt *bad* at times, and almost lost myself for a while. My WTFH is permanently angry *at me* for seperating (I moved into our lower level apartment) from him.

He is mean to me beyond belief, but cannot understand WHY I will not simply "move back in" with him.

He makes ZERO effort to change things, and has done nothing more than reinforce my belief that I deserve a HELLUVA lot better than "this."

And yes, he was the wayward one. Lots of dday-type items for me, but of course, those were all *my* fault too! Honest to god, his comment at the time was "I needed someone to talk to!"..

The REALLY funny thing? He says that MY "anger" is what got us here. Nothing to do with his betrayal (of course), and I apparently had no right to BE angry about that. So he has chosen to blame ME, and now acts very crazy and hateful towards me. Mean? Thats a MILD word to describe "him".

But *I* am fine, because I've learned and talked, and posted and listened and read. Its not *me*, and its not *you*.

Don't let him make you question yourself. You're smart, caring, and nice.


Me (BS):50
Him(WTFH):51 Married: 05/26/2002
DD#1: 09/2005 (EA) DD#2: 09/2006
Mini-DDays: Many. Mostly online
DIVORCED 10/20/10
It's not what you've got, it's what you give.
It ain't the life you choose, it's the life you live

Posts: 6400 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Michigan
janedoe99
♀ Member
Member # 17083
Default  Posted: 9:46 PM, December 21st (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The sympathy angle resonates strongly with me:

My NPDWh has a chronic pain issue, and one of his main reasons for asking for a D (other than the OW in his life) was that I was never sympathetic "enough." I never seemed to care or comfort him when he really needed it.

I spent months agonizing over my inability to be more compassionate.

Now I realize that with him, there would never be enough sympathy that would satisfy him and his needs.

I'm new here, but I agree with what everyone else has said. IDB, It's not your fault.

[This message edited by janedoe99 at 9:48 PM, December 21st (Friday)]


Me BW 36 Him WH/XH 32
DD - 4 y/o; DSS 11 y/o
M 4yrs/ Together 8
D-day#1/2 - Sept. 2007, Nov. 2007
Divorced 4/08

Posts: 156 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Florida
cjonesjag
♀ Member
Member # 10617
Default  Posted: 9:54 PM, December 21st (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

janedoe99..oh that 'sympathy' thing. It has made me almost SICK when reading some of his 'pity mongerings'.

I cannot understand that 'seeking of sympathy' thing. Logically, I realize that its another form of *attention* for them, but I look at him and think, "You are a MAN. You are seeking SYMPATHY for yourself? What in the HELL is that?"

I dunno...I personally have a difficult time with receiving any sort of 'sympathy'. Makes me feel weak or something (whatever). In fact, when my paid-listener points out how abusive my WTFH is, I think THATS what bothered me. She sincerely felt sorry for me, and I just don't know what to *do* with it!

But N's? Some of them THRIVE on it! Its a manipulative tactic, and has worked for them many, many times in their pasts.

Really shows what a weak sense of 'self' they have huh? To feel as though you must use 'whatever' to gain sympathy from (and to manipulate) others must be really creepy to *be*.

Hope that made sense.


Me (BS):50
Him(WTFH):51 Married: 05/26/2002
DD#1: 09/2005 (EA) DD#2: 09/2006
Mini-DDays: Many. Mostly online
DIVORCED 10/20/10
It's not what you've got, it's what you give.
It ain't the life you choose, it's the life you live

Posts: 6400 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Michigan
IDeserveBetter
Member
Member # 16602
Default  Posted: 10:01 PM, December 21st (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's interesting that I posted about the kitten situation in the general forum and I received several responses that said my reaction to him seemed harsh and that I should have worded things more nicely. But here in this forum the reaction is very different.

Posts: 754 | Registered: Oct 2007
cjonesjag
♀ Member
Member # 10617
Default  Posted: 10:16 PM, December 21st (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IDB...I don't know your whole story, but if your H is NPD'd, and you're *here* with us, that puts a WHOLE NEW TWIST on things!!

Plus, your explanation of his cussing at you (complete with the usual *F* word tirade) rang so TRUE to *my* situation, I can't help but 'identify' with you.

He may or may not have had 'good intentions' with the kitten thing. For me, THATS really *not* the point. Look at how he reacted !!

If he was such a sweet, loving, gentle soul that would be just WANTING so badly to get you a fluffy little kitten, do you think he would've reacted this way?

Not.

I know that if *I* were going to get my "S/O" a special 'something' and I learned that it was NOT a good idea, I would feel just bad. Or sad. Or something OTHER than 'rage.' Besides, he used this incident to berate and blame you. Thats not healthy.


Me (BS):50
Him(WTFH):51 Married: 05/26/2002
DD#1: 09/2005 (EA) DD#2: 09/2006
Mini-DDays: Many. Mostly online
DIVORCED 10/20/10
It's not what you've got, it's what you give.
It ain't the life you choose, it's the life you live

Posts: 6400 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Michigan
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 10:26 PM, December 21st (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You can donate yourself, your own life, your own desires, your own dreams and everything else along with it *for them*, but it will never, ever be reciprocated.

Nor will it ever be enough.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
discombobulated
♀ Member
Member # 6580
Default  Posted: 10:30 PM, December 21st (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Amen, sadtoo. Very, very true. Took me over 25 years to "get it"


BS - age 52- married 27 years, in IC, support groups
WH - age 57 - sex addict/porn addict, NPD
Children 2 boys, 19 & 16
D-day #1 2/2/05, D-day #2: 1/22/06
R 4/21/05, but that was another lie, just a game.
D-day #3 11/06
Divorce final may 09

Posts: 2151 | Registered: Mar 2005 | From: Florida
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 11:55 PM, December 21st (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((IDB)))
The harshness thing is interesting. Could you have worded things better? Perhaps. Should you word things better? Probably a good thing. It's best for us all to try to be gracious and kind regardless of the fact that we are dealing with Ns.
But as we all here on the NPD threads know, trying to be gracious and kind with an N is ungodly taxing. You need unbeliveable patience and the ability not to get sidetracked or take things personally with the Ns and their diversionary tactics, such as blaming, projecting, "poor me" etc. etc.
Did you do anything wrong? Absoulutely not. Could you have been nicer. Sure. Would it have mattered? Absoulutely not. That's the difference on this thread. We *know* that how you presented it doesn't matter. You could have presented youself to him in the most diplomatic of ways, you could have been a saint, but it still wouldn't have mattered. The result would still have been the same. As said above, they can not handle anything even remotely resembling critisism, they can only dish it out and they can always find a justification as to why *they* can do it and why *you* cannot. They still suck. You will never win. I will never win. We will never win. Nobody will ever win with them. They are disordered. And they still suck !!! LOL.

The thing that I would caution you, myself and anybody else dealing with an N is, be careful of what you say or do. They WILL use everything and anything against you. They WILL first make YOU *own* it, make YOU feel guilty, and make YOU carry the burden. That's life with an N. Once again, they lack empathy, conscience and responsibility. (Did I mention that they also suck? LOL).

Hope this helps.

(((Tribe))) (((Babie Luna))) (((All of Our Children)))

BoB

ETA: Lame spelling and stuff.

[This message edited by bobelina at 11:59 PM, December 21st (Friday)]


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
downfall
♀ Member
Member # 7430
Default  Posted: 12:27 AM, December 22nd (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You could have presented yourself to him in the most diplomatic of ways, you could have been a saint, but it still wouldn't have mattered.

Amen!

You must learn that the people in general are dealing with *normal* people. They only see through the viewpoint of dealing with *normal*. NPD is anything but normal. If your anything like the rest of us were in the beginning you've forgotten what normal even looks or sounds like.

Example of normal: DS got overly excited about a commercial for 70% of jewelery. Says he needs to call his Dad. I look at him and say please don't say that your thinking of that for me. He says you don't like jewelery? I say I don't want jewelery. I would like X,Y or Z. He says are you sure? I say I am positive. This is normal.

Normal is not YOU NEVER WANT WHAT I HAVE PLANNED. or I CAN NEVER MAKE YOU HAPPY. Normal does not contain rage behind it.

The only difference your wording does or has is how you feel about yourself. Did your wording feel like an anger release? If it did, that needs work. Did you feel true to yourself at the time speaking it? I recently posted the four agreements; if it did not feel true to yourself go back and re-read those.

I hope you understand we are trying to help you along based on the information that you are dealing with a N. This is not criticism. This is what we have learned and made mistakes about in the past.

Two years ago I couldn't even be sure about whether or not the sky was blue. I was completely lost. I hardly ever spoke because I was never sure about anything. I couldn't even smile at my children. My N almost won. But I found SI and some other close people that reminded me what normal was. They reminded me that the world had not changed - it was me that had stepped away from it.

I built that stupid barn!!! But I burned it down too. I see the moon now. I wish that for you too.

Many positive thoughts.

DF


Dday June 16 2005: Separated 2/06 Divorced 3/09

Ah, but she can't take you any way
You don't already know how to go ~ Eagles


Posts: 3048 | Registered: Jun 2005
Longlost
♀ Member
Member # 16177
Default  Posted: 8:38 AM, December 22nd (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You can donate yourself, your own life, your own desires, your own dreams and everything else along with it *for them*, but it will never, ever be reciprocated.

Nor will it ever be enough.

Nor will it ever be even slightly appreciated.


Wisdom and pain are not mutually exclusive.
____________________________
Barn's burnt down--
Now I can see the moon.
--Mizuta Masahide

Posts: 288 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: West of Bizarro World
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