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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: The N.P.D. Thread Part IV
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 8:13 PM, December 26th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Tribe))) of Lightbulbs and Toasters, AKA: The N-Survivors Club, AKA: The Club of and From Hell,

Who's coming to my house for New Years?

Peace and blessings.

BoB


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
cjonesjag
♀ Member
Member # 10617
Default  Posted: 10:11 PM, December 26th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hope *everyone* here in the playground had a reasonably happy and safe Christmas!!

Mine was good, as I no longer give ANY emotional energy to the "mood" of my WTFH.

Do you KNOW how "nice" that feels? I couldn't care LESS if he looks like a complete assclown if he throws a temper tantrum.

And the misery he seems to enjoy has been going on for over two years now, so my family is pretty much "used to" it.

I had a VERY HAPPY Christmas!! My daughter and her (long-term) boyfriend spent the night, along with my mom and her husband and one of my aunts! Yep, had a house full!!

And I enjoyed EVERY minute of it. This is the last Christmas here at this house, and more than likely the last Christmas that we will all spend "together." My daughter will be moving to North Carolina this summer to begin working at Duke University Hospital.

I no longer base MY "happiness" on the reaction or mood or whatever of WTF.

Do you KNOW how GOOD that feels? And we LIVE in the same house!!

My paid-listener is right ~ I have almost *completely* detached from him, and this is why I "am" so much happier.

I've almost got my mojo back.

This will be the last New Years Eve that I spend with our grandson, but basically "alone". WTF is usually online or whatever at midnight, and couldn't care LESS about the significance of 'midnight' on NYE. His (and my) grandson hangs out with ME downstairs!!

I no longer base MY self-worth on how HE treats me, the things HE 'says' to me, and the way HE *tries* to make me feel.

I am better than he is, and I DESERVE better than he is even CAPABLE of!!!

I finally *know* it, and it feels good.

He is abusive, and I do not tolerate it.

I do not 'engage' when he becomes abusive. I leave. Why would ANYONE need to point out the abusive nature of cruel and cold words? Why would ANYONE need to ARGUE with a person that they ARE being abusive?

Don't they *get* that they ARE?

Apparently, not.

HE'S the *sick one*. HE is the one that is alone. HE is the one with no friends. HE is the one that tried to take the *me* out of ME!

HA! I am smarter than that.

I hope *everyone* here in the playground KNOWS this, and moves forward by reminding themselves of this EVERY DAY!! or every HOUR (if thats what it takes).

Include in your life people who lift you up, as opposed to those who try to throw you down. You are ALL worth it, and you ALL deserve it. Do NOT question *your* sanity, because by doing so, you give their words 'merit.' You know better.

You're smarter than that!

cj


Me (BS):50
Him(WTFH):51 Married: 05/26/2002
DD#1: 09/2005 (EA) DD#2: 09/2006
Mini-DDays: Many. Mostly online
DIVORCED 10/20/10
It's not what you've got, it's what you give.
It ain't the life you choose, it's the life you live

Posts: 6400 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Michigan
itsabattle
♀ Member
Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 1:50 AM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lovely words cj and so true. You have got there at last. You are worth so much more than that idiot and now you know it! It is a wonderful realisation.

Lied - I could of written your post word for word. Let's make a new years resolution to expect the best from every day. Because it is what we deserve.

I had a lovely christmas - far better than what I was expecting. We were with family and the kids said it was the best christmas they had ever had. Arse-face called the kids in the morning and passed a message to me and my family - for us to have a lovely day.
We did not send the same greeting back and we just shook our heads in disbelief. My mom managed a thank you. He is oblivious to the destruction he has caused my family. Needless to say I did not send similar greetings to his family - some of you may remember that it was his parents who tried to evict me from my home.
The kids went to his house overnight and it was quite nice to have some time alone. All in all a very happy christmas. I hope you all had the same.

I'll bring the champagne Bob!


Posts: 1233 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: england
downfall
♀ Member
Member # 7430
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good Morning!

We have a newbie that has not posted just yet. They are busy reading the first thread . I'm sure they will post when they are ready. Til then many positive thoughts for you.

CJ - you have come so far! I wonder if you can see how much growth you've made over the past year? I am so very, very proud of you!

BoB - I'll bring the funny party hats kk?

I'm glad to hear that so far everyone survived Christmas. It was good here too. Some of usual bull involved but nothing I'm not used to.

We are still in our busy season at work so if I'm not around feel free to pm.

Happy New Year all!

DF


Dday June 16 2005: Separated 2/06 Divorced 3/09

Ah, but she can't take you any way
You don't already know how to go ~ Eagles


Posts: 3048 | Registered: Jun 2005
Steve_131
♂ Member
Member # 17322
Default  Posted: 10:46 AM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi guys, I am a new member of the 'group' and have been posting and reading elsewhere in the forums. With the help of some folks here at SI, (Thanks Bigger) I now realize that my WGF/WS has such issues.

Her world is all about her, and even when she is nice to me or with me, it is all because it somehow fulfills her.

Man I hate that crap.

Much more for me to read and learn as I am still working to get disengaged from my mess. Thankfully we are not married, so I have a great deal more freedom of action.


Me- BS 50

"It's what you do right now that makes a difference."


Posts: 604 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: Better and better every day
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Steve_131)))
Welcome to the (((Tribe))) of Lightbulbs and Toasters, AKA: The N-Survivors Club, AKA: The Club of and From Hell,
I'm sorry that you find yourself here as coming to the realization that you are dealing with a disordered person can be quite disorienting.
Continue to read. We're here if and when you need us.

BoB


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
landabear
♀ Member
Member # 15046
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would like to share something for the newbies that are joining us:

I am two years out from separation and 1.5 years out from divorce from my ex, who I think AT THE VERY LEAST displays NPD tendencies. As he wonít step foot in a therapistís office willingly, weíll never know if he would be diagnosed as such. I have kids with him, and so I actually must speak with him from time to time on matters concerning them. If I didnít have kids, I would have written him off forever, change my locks, my hair color and my phone number, and just disappeared.

Some things that have helped me get to where I am (still healing) and are still allowing me to slowly heal:

1) Limited or no communication. Seriously. If the conversation drifts in any way, shape or form away towards what that person needs, or wants, hang up or leave. Try to keep most, if not all, communication to email. Create a separate folder for your N and have their email dump to there, NOT your inbox, so that you can deal with it in your own sweet time.

2) Remember that just because they are speaking/writing/voicemailing you does NOT mean you must return the favor. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO ANSWER COMMUNICATION WITH THEM TIT-FOR-TAT. In fact, itís best to let them ramble on and on Ė the more they ramble, the more you know about their TRUE motivations in contacting you.

3) Their problems are not your problems. This is hard, I know Ė I was conditioned over 10 years to take on not only his problems, but also his emotions. It will take some time to learn that just because he doesnít have a sitter you have to be a sitter for him when itís his day. It will take some time to not buy it when he says money is tight because XYZ Ė doesnít matter. If YOU were paying child support, you would make sure it was paid in full and on time. Itís ILLEGAL to not pay it in full and on time, and I bet his other creditors wonít take ďbut my check was short!Ē as payment, either. Itís not your problem that his mother upset him again, or that his sister is being a bitch, or that his new job is crappy. Absolutely none of it is your concern.

4) His/Her emotions are his/hers to have and to deal with. Most likely, any display of emotion, including those of remorse for the pain they have caused you, is simply a manipulation tactic. Iíve found my N is most likely to appear remorseful for all heís done when heís late with payment on something, his Flavor of the Month has dumped him and he is looking for quick supply of attention, or he needs something from me/mine. It doesnít matter if his life is tough Ė he made it that way, he can deal with it. PERIOD.

5) Anger is good. Itís okay to be angry, itís okay to not be in a place that allows you to ďforgiveĒ them for what they have done. Anger will keep you from becoming narcissistic supply for them again.

6) Those with NPD get worse as they get older. The longer you know him/her, the worse it has been and the worse it will get.

7) Deal with them as if you are dealing with a three year old. Example: my N threw a tantrum because I refused to rearrange my familyís Xmas plans (on MY weekend). As I would do with my own three year old, I allowed him to kick and scream and just simply ignored it. In a few days time, itís like the exchange never occurred. POOF, tantrum over, all is forgotten.

8) ANY ATTENTION YOU GIVE THEM IS GOOD ATTENTION, and that includes showing them anger, sadness, etc. Hell, even replying to an email with a simple yes or no is attention, but sometimes that canít be helped. So yes, if it feels like he/she started something just to fight, when youíve been ignoring them for days, thatís probably exactly what happened. Ignore, disengage if the battle begins and walk away. Yes, you are right and they are wrong BUT YOU WILL NEVER CONVINCE THEM OF THAT, so just let them be wrong over THERE and you be right over HERE, and you will feel better, I promise.

9) What they did to you while they were with you is abuse. IT IS ABUSE. It is not wrong of you to feel like youíve been chewed up and spit out, because thatís exactly what has happened. You might suffer from PTSD. A lot of people wonít understand what was ďso wrongĒ when you try to explain what happened, or how that person treated you, but thatís okay. Find support groups online (like this one!), read blogs and books, and know that THIS DID HAPPEN, you are not crazy, and you will recover from this.

10) Be wary of new relationships: it is likely that you are drawn to narcissists, or they are drawn to you, however you want to say it. They are very charming people. And I donít mean just romantic relationships: I was drawn to my ex because he reminds me a lot of my favorite cousin growing up. Gawd how I still to this day can get drawn into my cousinís shenanigans. He is SO MUCH FUN to hang out with, but at the end of the day I end up emotionally drained and hurt. Me and mine end up used and abused. If you find other narcissists in your life, cut down the interaction you have with them; you will notice over time that, as you heal from your relationship with your N, these other Nís will have a harder time dealing with you. Strength scares them.

11) There is nothing wrong with you. You are a caring, intelligent, trustworthy person. That is why your N chose you Ė because you are everything they are NOT, and they needed to try to suck those traits dry from you. Do not buy their version of you, they will project all of their faults on to you and try to get you to believe THAT is the real you. Itís not. Itís an image they want you to buy, because if you are all the bad things THEY are, then they are all the good things YOU are.

12) They are not nice people ďdeep downĒ. They will not change. Harboring hope that they will change into better people, or see the errors of their ways, will only keep YOU attached to them in a way that feeds their needs and keeps you from fulfilling yours. Let them go, and give yourself permission to stop hoping they will get better. Itís not your job to fix them, and the vast majority are unfixable, anyway.

Anyone care to add?


BS
Divorced: March 2006
Married to a wonderful, FAITHFUL man: October 2009

Posts: 729 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Midwest
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((landabear)))
That was an awesome post !!! That's it in a nut-shell, or is it N-Shell?

Wow !!! This is a "classic" post. Thanks.

BoB


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
ktshadow
♀ Member
Member # 10920
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Thank you so much to everyone here...this has been such a great place to come when I am trying to make sense of crazy, which by the way, is not possible. There is a lot of healing still to be done here, but I have been able to limit my conversations with him and when it starts heading in an emotional direction, I am getting better at saying "abort! abort!" to myself. I have to save myself. It is so much better now that I can get some perspective on it and see it from the outside instead of being so caught up in it. Thank you for the awesome posts and information...I feel lucky to have this space.


Don't let only one person decide if you are loveable or not. Be around the ones who have already decided that you are.
I traded in my intuition for his analysis.

Posts: 152 | Registered: Jun 2006
downfall
♀ Member
Member # 7430
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Landabear excellent excellent post! Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to write that all out. You Rock!


Dday June 16 2005: Separated 2/06 Divorced 3/09

Ah, but she can't take you any way
You don't already know how to go ~ Eagles


Posts: 3048 | Registered: Jun 2005
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

landabear That was excellent.

The point 6 could be debated since the research I have read seems to indicate that over all they do mellow with age but it seems that it doesn't happen until into their 50s and 60s and beyond when they figure out that if they keep alienating everyone they will not be able to get the much needed supply.

Having said that the better you know them the worse the treat you so it does seem that they get worse. I think it is more that we get wise to their tricks and are better able to see them for who they are.

About the only thing I can think to add is that if you can't some up with a response to their actions and their crazy making it is best to learn to not respond. It is hard to do and so may have to be something you learn. It really is ok to respond to them later once you have processed the interaction. I know personally I have gone back later with a reply to something and he has no clue what I was giving him a reply to. It seems that much of the time they talk simply to hear their own voices and really don't want you to say anything.

Oh one other point. Create your own life that has nothing to do with them. This is necessary for your own sanity and will help you build up your self-esteem and emotional life. The person with NPD will not have any part of that portion of your life so there is a good chance that it will be something that is away and apart from their meddling and crazymaking. Have a good councelor also helps because we often need someone to bounce this crap off of to process it and see it for what it is.


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 3:09 PM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Since I met my N at age 49, and he is now 54...NO, they do NOT "mellow" with age.
He has gotten *worse*!
Thnx, landabear, & lied2.

cj, way to go!

BoB, I'll bring the ginger ale & canapes.

Welcome, Newbies, & huge hugs to you all.


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
landabear
♀ Member
Member # 15046
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The point 6 could be debated since the research I have read seems to indicate that over all they do mellow with age but it seems that it doesn't happen until into their 50s and 60s and beyond when they figure out that if they keep alienating everyone they will not be able to get the much needed supply.

I can see it going both ways. For example, i'd bet money that both my ex's parents count as narcissists, or at least have tendencies. His father essentially abandoned the kids, after beating their mother for a while, and only wandered in every few years for a week or two's worth of interaction. The longer I knew him, the more he seemed to realize he was an ass, and seemed to TRY to make it better, in his own twisted way.

Ex's mom? Holy shit, that woman gets worse every passing year. As does ex - he had some redeeming qualities as a teen when I first knew him, but they had all but vanished before baby #1 came along, and were gone almost instantly at his birth.

<shrug> So I can see it going either way, but the ones *I* am around all the time? Worse the older they get. I will concede that could just be I am less likely to put up with their crap the older *I* get, though.

Something else I remember after posting the original list: it has been helpful to go through incident by disturbing incident of our history together, and see it through fresh eyes. It sickens me to see what I attributed to real emotion on his part, but it also has been very theraputic to replay a scene and SEE that what I was doing was okay, even if he later tried to make me think it wasn't (gaslighting, blame shifting, etc.).

For example, while very pregnant with our second, I discovered online dating profiles for him. I burst into our bedroom, crying and raging, butt ass naked because I'd had the light bulb moment about his time on the PC while in the shower, and as SOON as I opened the door, he was also crying.

At the time, I thought it was because he could tell how upset I was. Now, I know he was mirroring.

That scene has played over and over in my mind since the day it happened, because I couldn't place my finger on what was wrong with it. Something was OFF.

Now that I know what was truly going on, it's like another piece of my past has slipped into place, I *know* that I was reacting properly to the situation and that HE was not, even though he tried to make me believe I was "blowing things out of proportion".

Still leaves me divorced and raising some kids with only his reluctant support, but I was *RIGHT*. And it feels good to go through the past and find the truth in all the rubble. I know now why therapists like to discuss something until the little light bulb comes on, because it truly DOES free the soul to find the truth.


BS
Divorced: March 2006
Married to a wonderful, FAITHFUL man: October 2009

Posts: 729 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Midwest
downfall
♀ Member
Member # 7430
Default  Posted: 6:44 PM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Something else I remember after posting the original list: it has been helpful to go through incident by disturbing incident of our history together, and see it through fresh eyes.

I did this also. Not a great time period in my life. I found myself, as a empathetic person, trying to imagine what it would take to say/do the things he did. Putting yourself in the position of the N is not something I would suggest for anyone. Sometimes you just get in too deep. But it does/did help me to detach and is a useful reminder to me of what it is I'm dealing with.

Many positive thoughts.


Dday June 16 2005: Separated 2/06 Divorced 3/09

Ah, but she can't take you any way
You don't already know how to go ~ Eagles


Posts: 3048 | Registered: Jun 2005
ktshadow
♀ Member
Member # 10920
Default  Posted: 7:04 PM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The people who suffer from NPD, including my stbx are sick freaks. It is the most insidious, mind warping form of abuse that I have ever encountered. I am a trained therapist and I was manipulated by this wierdo. There is so much sense in all of the information provided. If I need to pacify him, I give him a little "dose" of ego supply and he's like a heroin addict for the junk. I am a kind considerate person and like to live my life in truth all of the time, but this is a different scenario all together. It's like a game of chess or stratego. Good thing we're all smart.


Don't let only one person decide if you are loveable or not. Be around the ones who have already decided that you are.
I traded in my intuition for his analysis.

Posts: 152 | Registered: Jun 2006
Dragonfly32
♀ Member
Member # 16362
Sad  Posted: 7:16 PM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well..it's the 27th and visitation is his

The boys and I had a great Christmas with my parents out of town. I was sick and my Step Dad came to get us.

We all had a blast and it was very relaxing until today.,,,,of course...

Not wanting to deal with Asshole, my Step Dad took the boys to his house, well "the end of his drive way" per asshole's instructions

On the way there, my youngest said "Grandpa..Daddy will be probably be naughty to you... he is naughtly to everyone."

When my Step Dad go to Asshole's house he showed his true colors as he was standing in the drive way with it blocked off via trash cans and all of his vehicles ..So the boys had to get out of the car onto a busy street. My youngest attempted to hug his Grandfather and Asshole jerked him away yelling "Don't you talk to him"

My youngest's eyes began to tear up as my Step Dad got back into his car and Asshole was dragging him into the house...


If life's not beautiful without the pain,
well I'd just rather never ever even see beauty again.
Well as life gets longer, awful feels softer.
And it feels pretty soft to me.
Modest Mouse


Posts: 149 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: Oklahoma
cjonesjag
♀ Member
Member # 10617
Default  Posted: 7:17 PM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I found myself, as a empathetic person, trying to imagine what it would take to say/do the things he did. Putting yourself in the position of the N is not something I would suggest for anyone. Sometimes you just get in too deep. But it does/did help me to detach

This is *exactly* how my paid-listener explained how *I* detached so much from WTF in just a couple of months.

I HAD to figure it out, I HAD to see the 'guts' of all that he said/did/didn't say/didn't do, in order to COMPLETELY understand that it WASN'T me, it NEVER was me, and it COULDN'T have been me!!

It takes a *certain amount* of detachment to even BEGIN the process of dissecting what has been done. But it helped me IMMENSELY to see that there was absolutly NOTHING that I could've done to make things any different. NOTHING.

Once I understood that, I began to REALLY 'let go' and start focusing on myself. There was still some moments when I would become so damned frustrated and wonder "WTF"? (hence the *name* for him).

I still don't fully understand ALL of the 'thought-processes' (or lack thereof), but I think its better that way. There is no way *I* could ever fully understand how a person could completely devalue and delete another person from their mind.

I wouldn't want to "be" like him for all the money in the world. I cannot imagine living a life void of any true emotion or real feelings of caring or love.

I'm glad I'm *me*, and I will never, ever allow another person to question the "okayness" of myself. I will never, ever allow another person to make me feel 'less than worthy' of anything.

I wouldn't wish the experience on my worst enemy, but I truly believe I found my true self and my real strength through all of this. But still, ya know....


Me (BS):50
Him(WTFH):51 Married: 05/26/2002
DD#1: 09/2005 (EA) DD#2: 09/2006
Mini-DDays: Many. Mostly online
DIVORCED 10/20/10
It's not what you've got, it's what you give.
It ain't the life you choose, it's the life you live

Posts: 6400 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Michigan
ktshadow
♀ Member
Member # 10920
Default  Posted: 7:17 PM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

btw...thank you landabear for such an awesome post. I got so much out of the way that you said things so simply and eloquently. Thank you...


Don't let only one person decide if you are loveable or not. Be around the ones who have already decided that you are.
I traded in my intuition for his analysis.

Posts: 152 | Registered: Jun 2006
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 7:34 PM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Dragonfly32)))
His (the motherfuckindonkeyballsuckingasstardfuckfaceasswipeshiteatingfucktardbiotch) behaviour is atrocious. WTF?

Oh, my. I'm so sorry. He made the kid cry? That IS abuse. No ifs and or buts about it. WTF? And the "grown up" behaviour of blocking the driveway? Egads.

That is so whacked. I'm so sorry. How long does daddie dickwad have the kids? I hope they are home soon. Report everything and anything you can to any and all authorities.

BoB


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
Dragonfly32
♀ Member
Member # 16362
Default  Posted: 7:42 PM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I got a BIG journal for Christmas that is bounded no pages to be removed, and this went into it...

Asshole has the boys till the 1st Tried to call tonight to check on the little one, no answer of course...never does.. they usually call me.

OOO and to and to my day.. the CS envelope had a self-made stamp with a picture of my boys and the OW...

Yep it's abuse alright.. Child Welfare...wait and see STILL,, nothing natta not a freaking word.

The youngest one cried 3 nights in a row about going and all I could say is I don't have the power right now to stop visitation.. HE IS ONLY 6

WTF WTF!!!!
Oh, and I have to find a pro-bono Lawyer.. YEAH... GREAT...anything else... BRING IT THE F*@K ON is all I can say at this point GEESH


If life's not beautiful without the pain,
well I'd just rather never ever even see beauty again.
Well as life gets longer, awful feels softer.
And it feels pretty soft to me.
Modest Mouse


Posts: 149 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: Oklahoma
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