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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: The N.P.D. Thread Part IV
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 2:58 PM, December 28th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And for those of you who are feeling bad the more similar you find our N's to be, it's all part of the process. In a way, it's a lot like going through infidelity, or death, only you get to go through it sometimes again, sometimes concurrently. You CAN and WILL get through it! I promise. I am still living with the rat bastard asshole, and although I still have some slip-ups emotionally, I am detaching with a quickness. And it's a fabulous feeling!


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
Steve_131
♂ Member
Member # 17322
Default  Posted: 3:11 PM, December 28th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the warm welcome to a place no one should be in, but hey, just another gate right??

I wish that school had an applied psychology course to help us as we are young to figure out what 'types' of people are out there. Theory being that knowledge is power, right?

I was divorced 10 years ago and it took me over a year to find out who I really was, I had changed so much to please her that I lost hwo I really am. Now in this circumstance at least I realized this was a total mess and have been working to not lose myself. The roller coaster of the daisy game (she loves me, she loves me not) is insane. As a caring person, it is natural to take affection and kindness and htink, hey things are improving, I am straigh up and blunt and say what is on my mind, which I suppose precludes me from being able to intutively understand lies and deception. After all why lie when you can get to the same place straight up without the crap and extra energy?? I guess this is growing up and realizing that not everyone plays the game by teh same set of rules.

There is much wisdom here and I thank you for it, very helpful as I have little academic experience with such personality types and can use all the help to deal with this. The struggle is to try and predict/understand their actions and reactions to events.


Me- BS 50

"It's what you do right now that makes a difference."


Posts: 604 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: Better and better every day
Dragonfly32
♀ Member
Member # 16362
Default  Posted: 7:06 PM, December 28th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((veritas)))

cuz I don't have the money to bail ya out..

This question was raised to me today by my new SO.."have you ever been tested".. um.. nope, never thought about it, until he mentioned that Asshole had a history

GREAT
My new SO is very understanding about Asshole and was a good friend before becoming a SO, cause of the walls I built after being BURNED by another, not Asshole, just another...

So guess I need to get a test.


If life's not beautiful without the pain,
well I'd just rather never ever even see beauty again.
Well as life gets longer, awful feels softer.
And it feels pretty soft to me.
Modest Mouse


Posts: 149 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: Oklahoma
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:58 PM, December 28th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you all for the welcome! Right now, it's hard for me to get to "ugh stage" = alot of you seem to have arrived at (or at least are "in" to a degree).
Something hasn't broken enough maybe? I don't understand. Sure I am angry - at times ; esp. when the N behaviors are manifesting themselves -
but it's as if I have an aversion to being angry enough to leave - almost as if that's not a good enough reason - or more to the point, I'm not sure I want to ride that horse and nurse the rage in order to make a clean break.
(We are NOT even in the same city at this point ....@ a 3hr. drive apart)...but I am afraid of the anger becoming a part of me - so against my sanguine nature, anyway - and I don't want to grow old and bitter JUST SO I can "feel better" about leaving - or even just so I can leave.
The feeling that I have is that it should be done with at least some peace in my mind....sadness, ok resignation, ok -
but please...do I have to become angry to make a clean split?
I am not berating any of you backhandedly either. Maybe the male N's are just greater monsters - wait....reading the stuff the BF's have had to put up with....I'd say it's pretty certain.
It sure is a faith test for me to "love" in the face of such evil manipulating (especially of the innocent children!)
So there is that...
It may be that rage is necessary for me too...that is, prolonged enough to complete the break.
I'm just saying it doesn't feel like it's right for me to cultivate it.
Whatever it may be (the "answer") - my feelings of longing and sadness seem to be the dominant ones. I'm trying some R this weekend - going to make the drive tomorrow. If it's weakness, and I'm made to suffer for it - it might be that it will help me see better just "why" I must move on. I'd ask for a prayer from those who are inclined suchly. Thanks.

Posts: 6020 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, December 28th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

jjct: I think it's just a matter of perspective. What I generally caution folks again is in allowing their emotions to spill over into interactions with N's. It does absolutely no good. However, I do believe that strong emotions have to be worked through -- and a lot of times, that means coming here and getting it out. Many of us have held it in and bitten our tongues for so long because we were not allowed to be angry or sad. We told pieces of stories in the name of keeping the peace. Once we start to get away from it, all of those things will have to go somewhere. It's not nurturing it; it's working through it.

Now if, for you, you have found a way to deal with the anger without letting it out, more power to you! I'm not wired that way. And you don't have to be really angry to leave, either; many of us are either left or deleted anyway. The anger isn't the catalyst; it's just a part of the by-products.

dragonfly: My doctor is a highly compassionate, but efficient doctor, so my exam was swift, nearly painless, and only vaguely uncomfortable. It took maybe 10 minutes total. The blood test was pretty easy, too, since my phlebotomist actually listened when I said I had "rolling" veins. They had to grow the cultures for 72 hours; lab tests within 24-48 hours. Since it was a holiday, I didn't get mine until 8 days later. But Dickwad went to the doctor on a Monday and got his results on a Thursday (and didn't tell me until Saturday, when I asked ). Even now, I am wondering if I should find some way to get his medical record for that day, which I don't think I can do, not without his permission, anyway.

[This message edited by veritas at 8:39 PM, December 28th (Friday)]


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
janedoe99
♀ Member
Member # 17083
Default  Posted: 9:25 PM, December 28th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey!

It's been awhile since I've posted -- so I'm gonna play catch up a bit.

8) ANY ATTENTION YOU GIVE THEM IS GOOD ATTENTION, and that includes showing them anger, sadness, etc. Hell, even replying to an email with a simple yes or no is attention, but sometimes that can’t be helped. So yes, if it feels like he/she started something just to fight, when you’ve been ignoring them for days, that’s probably exactly what happened. Ignore, disengage if the battle begins and walk away. Yes, you are right and they are wrong BUT YOU WILL NEVER CONVINCE THEM OF THAT, so just let them be wrong over THERE and you be right over HERE, and you will feel better, I promise.

I have to say (especially to Landabear), that your post, and this particular piece really hit home for me. I want to spend so much energy in trying to figure out a way to get N/WH to admit that I am right, but it never happens. He and I argued for a bit on Christmas day, and I got sucked into that pattern again.

My New Years Resolution (along with the obligatory "lose weight") will be to disengage and detach from N/WH.

And, Landabear, I plan to re-read that post you made over and over and over again. Until it sinks in -- thanks for writing it!


Me BW 36 Him WH/XH 32
DD - 4 y/o; DSS 11 y/o
M 4yrs/ Together 8
D-day#1/2 - Sept. 2007, Nov. 2007
Divorced 4/08

Posts: 156 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Florida
downfall
♀ Member
Member # 7430
Default  Posted: 9:33 PM, December 28th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Veritas - so glad the tests came out negative! (((hugs)))

Dragon - doctors are so used to this kind of thing (sad isn't it?) My doctor even gave me the referral to my first IC.

Guys - check the dates on our profiles. Each of you is no where near ready. This is all new and fresh for you. Just keep reading. Knowledge is power I wouldn't say I was angry when I decided enough was enough. The emotion was more like empty. I had nothing left to give. The feeling was like a rubber band stretched too far; it just snapped. He was in the middle of a confession - being caught yet once again in a lie. It just fell out of my mouth that I didn't care - I was done. From that point on it was more out of resolve than anything that we stayed separated.

Many positive thoughts.


Dday June 16 2005: Separated 2/06 Divorced 3/09

Ah, but she can't take you any way
You don't already know how to go ~ Eagles


Posts: 3048 | Registered: Jun 2005
jjct
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Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 9:41 PM, December 28th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Many of us have held it in and bitten our tongues for so long because we were not allowed to be angry or sad.

OOf! Ditto. I know you believe me, but really, just ditto, s'all I can say.

Once we start to get away from it, all of those things will have to go somewhere. It's not nurturing it; it's working through it.

I don't mean to give the impression that I'm not angry. I'm afraid of denying it, knowing the truth of what u said...it WILL come out, eh? I will give it full throat - and hopefully at the proper time and in the proper setting, because that is wise advice, not to get caught up in their circular crapola. Thanks for that.

I am being told that I am wanted, at this point. Actions? Not much hardly at all...and that only very grudgingly, sparingly, and of course, I have to give up my own pound of flesh to get anything first.

It doesn't look good, really. I'm far enough away - wait ....what is "deleted"? Dropped as a tool, for failing to provide supply?
OK, I'm beginning to get it...back later. Thank you for being so kind and helpful...


Posts: 6020 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 9:49 PM, December 28th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I will be reading alot of the NPD back threads to catch up - so sorry if this has been discussed, but thenody said:
I swear, NPD survivors end up with Stockholm Syndrome. There is just no other explanation for it.

Sometimes, when some things are said....something just....makes sense...rings true.
Oh man.
I'm gonna have to get some help.

Posts: 6020 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Longlost
♀ Member
Member # 16177
Default  Posted: 9:55 PM, December 28th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

jjct, the anger comes later--that is, if you ever recover enough of your self-esteem and sense of self to own it and experience it. Most of us aren't really naturally inclined to anger. That's part of the what the N's like about us.

Sometimes we literally have to learn to express healthy anger so that we can MOVE ON!!! Personally, I think that much of the anger you see here is more our feelings of protectiveness for each other than anger towards our own tormentors.

To be honest, I'm pretty proud of myself when I'm able to express righteous anger about the unmerited ill-treatment I received that is still causing traumatic effects 20 years later.

Are you seeing an IC? Ya oughtta! Basically, you own it now, or it owns you later.

Longlost

[This message edited by Longlost at 9:48 AM, December 29th (Saturday)]


Wisdom and pain are not mutually exclusive.
____________________________
Barn's burnt down--
Now I can see the moon.
--Mizuta Masahide

Posts: 288 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: West of Bizarro World
itsabattle
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Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 5:50 AM, December 29th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The anger issue is a tough one for me. I feel extreme rage at time and it comes out in unhelpful outlets. The fact that I was never allowed to be angry pisses me off!!
My counsellor said I am entitled to feel angry and that felt good to hear her say that. I don't always feel angry but when I do - My God -it frightens me. The counsellor said that if the situation had continued goodness knows what I could of done!! A sobering thought.
I think the anger is a natural emotion after life with a freak - how we deal with it I am at a loss to say.
The wise ones on her may have some better answers.

Posts: 1233 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: england
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:15 AM, December 29th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Struggling for words
Those emotionally labile
sometimes living things
whose one foot is entombed
in definition
while the other
slips on a banana peel.

What words unnumbered worlds could say
in holy reverie…
What teeming vastness holds the sound
that silent-throated stars must sing?
Whose echo paints the dawning sky
pastel and robin air,
in ripples trembling angels kneel
in holy listening…

I’d pluck those tones like sweetest fruit
place platter’d on your table,
lock’d throat and eyes brim’d full with heart
shine glisten yet unable
as feebly clutch’d the phrase thought heard
love’s bolt for through to you,
whose point was finger sharp’d by God
my aim is not so true.

Among the hollow hardened shells
chthonic clangor rages
against sound’s light despite dear hope
stirs deaf’ning dust of ages
and through the clanging clattered shaft
the settled moted muse
ears cling like eyes to falling tear
and soft soft angel word.

by tonestrum’d chordae tendineae
breathes still small clear and through
red fossa’s ragged wrung out shout
truth vibrates marrowsblood too
through bony labrynth’d sighing sigh
fine hair strain straight to hear
the whisper’d blastocyst would cry
to recall star’s long lovesong
lost now yet suck’d
once so near

Is passed and path the endless sound
star words so sweet and true…
rock brok’d, palms op’d
crinkleleaf’d lying down
what words could?
if ever would you…


To say "I love you" is meaningless here - maybe not so meaningless, but I would hold and hug every damn one of you for long and long.

[This message edited by jjct at 7:28 AM, December 29th (Saturday)]


Posts: 6020 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Longlost
♀ Member
Member # 16177
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, December 29th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((jjct))), Wow! That just took my breath away! Thank you!

Longlost


Wisdom and pain are not mutually exclusive.
____________________________
Barn's burnt down--
Now I can see the moon.
--Mizuta Masahide

Posts: 288 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: West of Bizarro World
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, December 29th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi All!
I wanted to respond about things being *off* with NPD's.

For me there were always the glaring times that would happen when me and anyone else in ear-shot were like WTF?? Those times were obvious and if he was questioned, he'd always play it out like he didn't hear the question right, etc. If he was drinking (heavily) and this occurred, it was a different story. It was OBVIOUS to anyone listening that there was something very *OFF* with him. That was usually my co-dependent cue to get him out or if at our house, tell everyone else, "time to go" with a smile on my face.

It was the times that he was a little *OFF* (more freqently) that really haunt me today. It's like there is something so off balance and something is so not right, but not significant enough that I could put my finger on it.

I know NOW what it is, but then while living it I didn't and it was maddening. It was like living with a constant feeling of doom or dread. You know how you get that feeling that something bad is about to happen?

I'm big on harmony and things in my life need to fit and make sense. The people that are close to me need to be honest, open and sincere. Life needs to flow in a sensible and logical manner. I understand that there will be the unexpected bumps along the way, but living with an NPD was something else entirely.

It wasn't long after my NPD and I married that I started to feel that something wasn't right. I just couldn't put my finger on it.

Things were in constant chaos. He was always in trouble. With work, other people, the law, you name it. It was NEVER his fault. They were ALL out to get him. His family would eat up his "woe as me" stories and they would immediately circle the wagons to defend him. This was assuring to me at the time, because certainly they wouldn't defend him if he were a constant trouble maker, right? **WRONG!!** His mother would say, "Oh, he would never do that. (whatever he was accused of) People have always been so jealous of him."

We would no more than get one thing behind us and something else would come up. I never spend so much time in the court house in my life!


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
janedoe99
♀ Member
Member # 17083
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, December 29th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sadtoo, I've had the same feelings that you have had, but I always related it to Karma.

I never understood why my WH/N had the worst luck. Things would happen to him or he would complain about how bad his life was, and I wondered why. One time, he quit his job, that apparently he was great at (according to him), but somehow got "squeezed out" by the higher-ups.

I've always believed that if one does good things, good things will happen to them. And now I know what nothing good happens to my N/Wh!

I stopped wearing things that he bought me (jewelry, etc.), so that I wouldn't have any more bad karma from him.


Me BW 36 Him WH/XH 32
DD - 4 y/o; DSS 11 y/o
M 4yrs/ Together 8
D-day#1/2 - Sept. 2007, Nov. 2007
Divorced 4/08

Posts: 156 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Florida
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 7:20 PM, December 29th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Tribe))),
Speaking of Karma. Some Buddhist stuff that the NPD notoriously break:
----------
The Five Precepts
1. To refrain from destroying living beings (killing, abuse, etc.).
2. To refrain from stealing (taking that which is not freely given.).
3. To refrain from sexual misconduct (adultery, rape, etc.).
4. To refrain from false speech (lying).
5. To refrain from intoxicants, which lead to heedlessness.
----------

BoB

[This message edited by bobelina at 7:22 PM, December 29th (Saturday)]


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 7:27 PM, December 29th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Tribe)))
And Taoism stuff that the NPD notoriously break:
----------
The Three Treasures
1). Compassion
2). Moderation
3). Humility
----------

Those Ns, what a bunch of cads !!!

BoB

[This message edited by bobelina at 7:30 PM, December 29th (Saturday)]


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 7:28 PM, December 29th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Tribe)))
And Christianity stuff that the NPD notoriously break, the whole Book of Proverbs. It's all about the N.

BoB

[This message edited by bobelina at 7:31 PM, December 29th (Saturday)]


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
cjonesjag
♀ Member
Member # 10617
Default  Posted: 9:19 PM, December 29th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It was NEVER his fault.

sadtoo..I find this to be the *single most frustrating* part of living with an N.. It resonates throughout their ENTIRE BEING... Mate that with their sense of "entitlement" and there is just no getting around 'horrific person.'

This was the ONE "red flag" that I can honestly say that I ignored while he was doing the courting dance with me. He has seven kids..yes, seven. Half of them are high school dropouts and former (or current) drug users. In fact, one of them is in jail right now!

He steadfastly blamed his ex-wife COMPLETELY for the "way they turned out." There was nothing that *he* could've done to influence them.

I couldn't help but think, 'wow, she must be one *powerful* woman!'...

But that wasn't it!! He just could never connect HIS behavior (as a "father"), to how his boys turned out. He was a HORRIBLE example of a 'man' to them. He disrespected their mother (of course using the *F* word at her often), but then blamed HER for it when his SONS used the same language.

And the whole time I would think, 'Jesus H. Christ! You ALLOWED your sons to speak to their MOTHER that way?'

N's are completely incapable of being introspective. They are UNABLE to connect 'anything' to their own behavior.

Its maddening and frustrating, and has caused *me* a lot of those feelings.

Ahhh...the anger from living with a completely screwed up person is absolutely frustratingly mad. It will eat you ALIVE unless you figure it out, understand it, allow it, and get away from it.

There is no other way. N's don't change, they don't *get it* at any 'point' in their lives, and they will never ever truly and genuinely CARE about another human being... Feel pity for a person that will never experience that. Right after you get ta hell away from them.


Me (BS):50
Him(WTFH):51 Married: 05/26/2002
DD#1: 09/2005 (EA) DD#2: 09/2006
Mini-DDays: Many. Mostly online
DIVORCED 10/20/10
It's not what you've got, it's what you give.
It ain't the life you choose, it's the life you live

Posts: 6400 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Michigan
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 10:00 PM, December 29th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have been giving my N holy Hell currently via e-mail.

Its for ME...not for him.

Like everyone says here, it goes right over their twisted N mindset.

And, I don't care if IT causes him to *Leave the Country*...hope it does!!!

Because, either way, even with the unfinished business at hand, I will be *OKAY*.


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
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