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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: The N.P.D. Thread Part IV
cjonesjag
♀ Member
Member # 10617
Default  Posted: 10:07 PM, December 29th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yep, dreamlife..you WILL be OKAY!! You're fine now..but you will be even BETTER when all of this N business is closed and you have moved on. I'm looking forward to the day that you can do that!!

cj


Me (BS):50
Him(WTFH):51 Married: 05/26/2002
DD#1: 09/2005 (EA) DD#2: 09/2006
Mini-DDays: Many. Mostly online
DIVORCED 10/20/10
It's not what you've got, it's what you give.
It ain't the life you choose, it's the life you live

Posts: 6400 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Michigan
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 10:18 PM, December 29th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((CJ))) & (((Dream))),
You both will be infinitely better when you are able to cut the last ties to the N-Mares.

I can't wait to hear of you guys, Veitas and a few others finally get away from those that cause the chaos. I'm hoping and praying for you all.

On a side note, what the hell are we gonna do with all of our time after we're rid of the "monsters"? LOL.

BoB

ETA: As you know-Cause I'm Lame with Spelling and Stuff.

[This message edited by bobelina at 10:21 PM, December 29th (Saturday)]


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
cjonesjag
♀ Member
Member # 10617
Default  Posted: 10:22 PM, December 29th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bob..after living through this, I believe that I will truly "pay it forward" and help others.

This has been the single most painful and difficult thing I have *ever* been handed. And I have been handed a LOT in my life.

This was by FAR the worst, and the most personally harmful. There is just no other way to describe it.

It takes a very strong person to survive it though..


Me (BS):50
Him(WTFH):51 Married: 05/26/2002
DD#1: 09/2005 (EA) DD#2: 09/2006
Mini-DDays: Many. Mostly online
DIVORCED 10/20/10
It's not what you've got, it's what you give.
It ain't the life you choose, it's the life you live

Posts: 6400 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Michigan
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 11:17 PM, December 29th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Living through this experience has made me a more compasionate person. I think that it will help me better reach out to those around me.

The anger, for , Has changed over the last few years. I know for a long time it was fury and rage. It frightened me because it felt so out of control.

Now I am finding that the anger has gone for the most part. There is still anger at the crap he continues to pull and over the time he has taken from my life and continues to steal from me because he won't help with the children and do what he is responsible for.

(((((everyone)))))


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 11:29 PM, December 29th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Tribe))),
Chime in if you feel the need on this one:

I feel if there is one word to define or describe or give a reason to and for all of the anger and for all of the rage, I feel that it could be summed up with the word violated.

Just my 73 cents. LOL.

BoB


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 11:45 PM, December 29th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My anger has subsided too. Thank goodness. Like you Lied2, I was scared because I was enraged a good part of the time.

I would find myself talking to myself and muttering the things that I would say to the SOB if I had the chance.

<<<scary!!>>>

And CJ, you're right. Throw in that sense of entitlement and WOW! It's like they think it's their birth-right to have whatever they want even if they're a piece of shit.

It's the craziest thing I've ever experienced.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Flame  Posted: 12:29 AM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ya know, after hearing all of the crap that each of us go through, it totally pisses me off.

And though I know that it won't do a damned bit of good, I am this year, for the first time, encouraged to strike back.

Notice: I am not encouraged to strike back in a HUGE way, because I know that N's also strike back in an even huger way.

HOWEVER... this year I am charging for my purposes... I am actually putting a price tag on my services... I am putting a value on how much I am actually worth. If he accepts it, if he doesn't accept it... this 'bitch' is going to have her money.


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 2:57 AM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thnx, cj, lied2, & BoB.

Bravo, Veritas!
Yeah, charge him huge cuz he's just chump change.

I'm NOT stuffing My Anger, fuck him, the POS.

BoB~ Time? I'm gonna learn HOW to knit baby booties & bankies.
Seriously, I do think my *knitting genes* have finally kicked in.

I worry about how we are all *haunted* in some way by this dreadful experience...I mean even AFTER we have Moved On.

And: Have we really??

I think their N *damage* is lasting & perpetual if even on some faint subliminal layer.
Would welcome feedback on the latter.

I really am feeling now like Thren, etc., because of a certain item he gave me which I (sorta unwittingly) accepted.
Of course, it cannot be used for any mal-intended purpose of his if I leave it in the bottom of my shoe closet & he gets to pay the $50 bill on it monthly. LOL

Or, I could give it to someone who travels out of state extensively & really blow his mind if he's hoping to *track* my whereabouts w/ GPS.

I just am seeing Future STALKER all over this latest development though!

[This message edited by dreamlife at 3:05 AM, December 30th (Sunday)]


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Dream))),
Haunted. I think so. But maybe because of the fact that the N-Experience is just so unexplainable.
Think of all the years we had all spent beating ourselves up for their behavior. Yes, we didn't know at the time what we were dealing with. But I think with any life altering crisis or disaster such as floods, wars, the house burning down, muggings, beatings, etc. it's very traumatizing. I believe the term often used is PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) and also we're all dealing with PISD (Post Infidelity Stress Disorder. LOL.).
What has happened to us is real. It is traumatizing. Why? Again, cause no sane person can wrap their head around the Ns behaviors and such. It's such a crazy making experience.
But we're not crazy. The Ns are disordered. They have this insidious way of dragging us into their drama. That is why NC is paramount.
Here's a song that may or may not describe the N exposure. It's a cool song anyway !!!:
----------
Love and Rockets
Haunted When the Minutes Drag

----------
The word that would best describe this feeling
Would be haunted
I touch the clothes you left behind
That still retain your shape and lines
Still haunted
I trace the outline of your eyes
We're in the mirror hypnotized
I'm haunted
I find a solitary hair
Gone and still I remenice
I'm haunted

Haunted by your soul
Haunted by your hair
Haunted by your clothes
Haunted by your eyes
By your soul, by your hair
By your clothes, by your eyes
By your voice, by your smile
By your mouth, by your soul
By your hair, by your clothes
By your eyes, by your voice
By your smile, by your mouth
By your soul

HAUNTED (haunted)

So this is for when you feel happy
And this is for when you feel sad
And this is for when you feel...
Nothing

OOOOH when the minutes drag
OOOOH when the minutes drag

And this is for the tears that won't dry
And this is for a bright blue sky
And this is for when you feel...
Lucky
And this is for when you feel...
Lucky

OOOOH when the minutes drag
OOOOH when the minutes drag

So this is for when you're feeling happy again
And this is for when you're feeling sad
And this is for when you feel...
Something

OOOOH when the minutes drag
OOOOH when the minutes drag

HAUNTED (haunted)
When the minutes drag
HAUNTED (haunted)
When the minutes drag

OOOOH
OOOOH
----------

BoB

[This message edited by bobelina at 9:54 AM, December 30th (Sunday)]


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, BoB, but actually that song doesn't really *relate* to my sitch.

I no longer miss his eyes, etc.

I just want his clothes & crap OUT of here!


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
IDeserveBetter
Member
Member # 16602
Default  Posted: 2:50 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, sorry if this is a bit sarcastic, I'm in that kind of mood towards WH, but I kind of like this song for NPD's.

Have you heard "She Hates Me" by Puddle of Mudd?

Met a girl
Thought she was grand
Fell in love
Found out first hand
Went well for a week or two
Then it all came unglued
(Bridge)
In a trap
Trip I can't grip
Never thought I'd be the one who'd slip
Then I started to realize
I was living one big lie
(Chorus)
She fuckin' hates me
Trust
She fuckin' hates me
La la la love
I tried too hard
And she tore my feelings like I had none
And ripped them away

She was queen for about an hour
After that, shit got sour
She took all I ever had
No sign of guilt
No feeling of bad, no

(Bridge)
In a trap
Trip I can't grip
Never thought I'd be the one who'd slip
Then I started to realize
I was living one big lie
(Chorus)
She fuckin' hates me
Trust
She fuckin' hates me
La la la love
I tried too hard
And she tore my feelings like I had none
And ripped them away

That's my story, as you see
learn my lesson, and so did she..
Now it's over and im glad !
'cuz I'm a fool for all I've said,

She fuckin' hates me, Trust
She fuckin' hates me
La la la love
I tried too hard
And she tore my feelings like I had none
And ripped them away
La la la la la la la la la love, Trust
La la la la la la la la la love, Trust
And she tore my feelings like I had none
she fuckin' hates me !


Posts: 754 | Registered: Oct 2007
DD123
♀ Member
Member # 13369
Default  Posted: 7:04 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey guys! Haven't posted much because of my STBXN "lurker". But I had a friend send me the following article that hit home on SO MANY LEVELS. This IS MY STBXN! I felt like I needed to share. Here goes:

It's impossible to overemphasize the importance of narcissists' lack of empathy. It colors everything about them. I have observed very closely some narcissists I've loved, and their inability to pay attention when someone else is talking is so striking that it has often seemed to me that they have neurological problems that affect their cognitive functioning. These are educated people with high IQs, who've had ordinary middle-class backgrounds and schooling, and their thinking is not only illogical but weird: with narcissists, you have to know them pretty well to understand their behavior.

For instance, they always fill in their gaps (which make up just about the entirety of their visible life) with bits of behavior, ideas, tastes, opinions, etc., borrowed from someone else whom they regard as an authority. Their authoritative sources, as far as I know, are always people they've actually known, not something from a book, for instance, and narcissists' opinions may actually come from someone you know, too, but who is not to you obviously an authority on the matter at hand, so narcissists can seem totally arbitrary, virtually random in their motivations and reasoning.

They are evidently transfixed by a static fantasy image of themselves, like Narcissus gazing at his reflection, and this produces an odd kind of stillness and passivity. Because their inner life is so restricted and essentially dead, it doesn't contain images of how to live a full life -- these things are not important to them, they expect others to look after day-to-day chores, they resent wasting their specialness on common things, they don't put their heart into their work (though they'll tell you how many hours they put into it), they borrow their opinions and preferences and tastes from whomever strikes them as authoritative at the moment.

From my personal experience, and from what I've seen in the clinical literature, narcissists don't talk about their inner life -- memories, dreams, reflections -- much at all. They rarely recount dreams. They seem not to make typical memory associations -- i.e., in the way one thing leads to another, "That reminds me of something that happened when I was...of something I read...of something somebody said...." They don't tell how they learned something about themselves or the world. They don't share their thoughts or feelings or dreams. They don't say, "I have an idea and need some help," or "There's something I've always wanted to do...did you ever want to do that?" They do not discuss how they've overcome difficulties they've encountered or continuing problems that they're trying to solve (beyond trying to get someone else to do what they want them to do).

They're pretty good at maintaining a conventional persona in superficial associations with people who mean absolutely nothing to them, and they'll flatter the hell out of you if you have something they can use or if, for some reason, they perceive you as an authority figure. That is, as long as they think you don't count or they're afraid of you, they'll treat you well enough that you may mistake it for love. But, as soon as you try to get close to them, they'll say that you are too demanding -- and, if you ever say "I love you," they'll presume that you belong to them as a possession or an appendage, and treat you very very badly right away. The abrupt change from decent treatment to outright abuse is very shocking and bewildering, and it's so contrary to normal experience that I was plenty old before I realized that it was actually my expression of affection that triggered the narcissists' nasty reactions.

Once they know you are emotionally attached to them, they expect to be able to use you like an appliance and shove you around like a piece of furniture. If you object, then they'll say that obviously you don't really love them or else you'd let them do whatever they want with you. If you should be so uppity as to express a mind and heart of your own, then they will cut you off -- just like that, sometimes trashing you and all your friends on the way out the door. The narcissist will treat you just like a broken toy or tool or an unruly body part.

If you've had a narcissist for a parent, you are probably not afraid of dying and going to hell -- you have lived hell on Earth. Narcissists cannot be satisfied and do a tremendous amount of damage to their children and partners in their relentless demand for a perfect outer appearance to reflect the perfect inner image that obsesses them.

[This message edited by DD123 at 7:08 PM, December 30th (Sunday)]


Married 16 years
Kids - 16, 15, 7
D-day 12/4/06.
Many add'l d-days; many false Rs
Separated 3/18/07; Divorced 2/20/08

"Women are like tea bags...you never know how strong they are until they are in hot water!!!"


Posts: 667 | Registered: Jan 2007
IDeserveBetter
Member
Member # 16602
Default  Posted: 8:27 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DD123 - interesting article.
Thanks for sharing it.

Where is it from?


Posts: 754 | Registered: Oct 2007
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 9:03 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, DD, that article really HIT *home* for me about my N!
Thanks for sharing...yeah, I know what you mean about Lurker stuffs, too.


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 11:21 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For more info concerning DD123's post go here:
http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/index.html

BoB

DD123: Where did you get your version? It's nice and compact !!!


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
DD123
♀ Member
Member # 13369
Default  Posted: 11:37 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have been in a self-reflective mood today! My friend sent me a link to:

http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com/search/label/narcissists

and I found that article linked somewhere to it. There is a lot of good stuff there!

The latest blog (dated today) on that site is called:

" The Other Woman -- Now He's HAPPY... With HER!!!"...

I also found a VERY old article navigated through that site that is very, very scary article about "Batterers" -- but you can actually substitute "narcissists". This is REALLY good if you, like me, are having your children put into the middle of your D battles with a N. Here is the link:

http://www.lundybancroft.com/pages/articles_sub/CUSTODY.htm

This quote from that article particularly got to me:

"Mediators and GAL's tend to have a bias in favor of communication, believing that the more the two parents speak to each other, the better things will go for the children. In domestic violence cases the truth is often the opposite, as the abuser uses communication to intimidate or psychologically abuse, and to keep pressuring the victim for a reunion. Victims who refuse to have any contact with their abusers may be doing the best thing both for themselves and for their children, but the evaluator may then characterize her as being the one who won't let go of the past or who can't focus on what is good for the children. This superficial analysis works to the batterers advantage."

We all are on here to "understand". I can read day in and day out but will never truly understand the N's mind. Never.

(((tribe)))

[This message edited by DD123 at 12:34 AM, December 31st (Monday)]


Married 16 years
Kids - 16, 15, 7
D-day 12/4/06.
Many add'l d-days; many false Rs
Separated 3/18/07; Divorced 2/20/08

"Women are like tea bags...you never know how strong they are until they are in hot water!!!"


Posts: 667 | Registered: Jan 2007
cjonesjag
♀ Member
Member # 10617
Default  Posted: 12:31 AM, December 31st (Monday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IDB..I love that song, and for some reason, it cracks me up whenever I hear it!

DD123...Good article. For me, the COMPLETE lack of empathy was the most obvious 'trait' that my STBXWTFH displayed. It was difficult to accept, although I KNEW it!!

I saw it in not only his dealings with ME, but with his kids and pretty much EVERYONE else. It is horrifying to watch, especially with his kids. I could not believe the amount of pain that man could inflict on his children (emotionally) and not even SEE it!

He *fits* in virtually every word of that article. I have said many times that I was a "piece of furniture" to him ~ not unlike the TV or the refrigerator.

For him, I am a *noun* and thats it..."Wife". Nothing more.

And it has been like that for a whole lotta years. GAWD...they are just horrible. The destruction they leave behind is just so SIGNIFICANT. Thank GOD I've got a paid-listener who points out the fact the he is *extremely* abusive to me.

Thank GOD my paid-listener is happy that I am filing for divorce, even while she reprimands me for trying to "see" that he still cares for me.

He doesn't, and I know it. He never did, and has stated that he "doesn't care" about me. I just needed to learn to live with that truth. It took a long time, because I wasn't listening to his behaviors. I was believing the words of an "N" for WAY too long!!!

cj


Me (BS):50
Him(WTFH):51 Married: 05/26/2002
DD#1: 09/2005 (EA) DD#2: 09/2006
Mini-DDays: Many. Mostly online
DIVORCED 10/20/10
It's not what you've got, it's what you give.
It ain't the life you choose, it's the life you live

Posts: 6400 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Michigan
DD123
♀ Member
Member # 13369
Default  Posted: 12:53 AM, December 31st (Monday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah cj... the empathy part has always been there. That article, though, made me think about other things as well:

narcissists don't talk about their inner life -- memories, dreams, reflections -- much at all.

My STBXN rarely talked about the past. He was married before for 5 years, he seldom said a word about his first M. I knew little of his friends or what he did as a child and what he learned. Nothing.

The other quote that hit me was:

For instance, they always fill in their gaps (which make up just about the entirety of their visible life) with bits of behavior, ideas, tastes, opinions, etc., borrowed from someone else whom they regard as an authority. Their authoritative sources, as far as I know, are always people they've actually known, not something from a book, for instance, and narcissists' opinions may actually come from someone you know, too, but who is not to you obviously an authority on the matter at hand, so narcissists can seem totally arbitrary, virtually random in their motivations and reasoning.

He's calls his sisters and Dad at least ten times a day. I am sure he calls his OW more. He used to call me all the time. I do not think my STBXN could literally pee without asking the opinions of 5 different people. Theses are his "experts" and everything from custody law to baseball strategy.

My lawyer wanted me to write ONE good thing about my STBXH to have for court. It was hard, but I finally figured out he was really, really good and empathized with our dog. Does this make any sense? He walked that Dog, slept with that dog, kissed that dog, picked up her poop. It was totally out of his N character, but was very genuine.... strange...


Married 16 years
Kids - 16, 15, 7
D-day 12/4/06.
Many add'l d-days; many false Rs
Separated 3/18/07; Divorced 2/20/08

"Women are like tea bags...you never know how strong they are until they are in hot water!!!"


Posts: 667 | Registered: Jan 2007
DD123
♀ Member
Member # 13369
Default  Posted: 12:56 AM, December 31st (Monday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay Mods, you were teasing us with the bigger font we had in the quote boxes over Christmas; but that small font is back for New Years.

Pretty Please???? We want the big font! We are an OLD bunch here with failing eyes on the NPD thread.... pretty please....


Married 16 years
Kids - 16, 15, 7
D-day 12/4/06.
Many add'l d-days; many false Rs
Separated 3/18/07; Divorced 2/20/08

"Women are like tea bags...you never know how strong they are until they are in hot water!!!"


Posts: 667 | Registered: Jan 2007
itsabattle
♀ Member
Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 1:17 AM, December 31st (Monday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lots of interesting stuff to catch up on! I agree with Sad when she said the worst thing was the "chaos". I hated living like that - I never knew who was going to be knocking on the door after money etc. Last night my daughter asked me why people used to chase daddy for money so I told her a watered-down version of the truth.
I hated the chaos in how he related to others - the sincere guy in front of strangers and a bastard to us/me!!
And when his lack of empathy kicked in following his affair - that was like nothing I have ever seen in my life! I choose to view it like some kind of scientific experiment; especially now as he is so text-book. I look back on that part of my life with anger at times but generally with this expression as it was just insanity. I talk about most things relating to him in the past tense now as I have had to decide to choose to live for now rather than figure out the chaos. Logic can go so far until the emotional side of me has to say "enough". I want a decent future and that was not available whilst married to him. So yes, it has being disgusting experiencing the living hell but for me it is over. The emotional stuff will take years to get over but I think I move forward every day.
I choose to look forward now and leave 2007/2006/05/04/03/02/01/00/99/98/97/96/95 and all that wasted time with him behind. Bring on 2008 - my year of freedom!!
I guess we have all learnt a lot about ourselves having to live with the ultimate betrayers. I know one thing for sure is that I am a lot wiser (or cynical!) and I am true to myself. As are we all!

I can't remember what I started off staying, I think I have rambled!!

Happy New Year my friends!


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