The Ns. Them dang Ns...
Veritas mentioned the similarities in our stories. Yup. Like the saga of the infidels of affairs. It's interesting that there are these patterns.
Has anyone of the Tribe succesfully used the knowledge of the N being disordered in custody/placement disputes? Used that knowledge to use for evidence of abuse? Curious to know how that worked for you.
[This message edited by bobelina at 1:23 AM, December 31st (Monday)]
Bobelina, "violated" is definitely apt, but only a small part of it. I feel as though I was kidnapped and taken to a far country where I had no choice but to "do as the Romans." I escaped in a tiny boat on wide open seas. I rowed and rowed and rowed. Sometimes the wind blew me back. Sometimes bigger boats forced me back. Sometimes I woke up and realized that even that tiny boat and rickety oars were just a dream of escape.
But I finally got away.
There is much joy in that escape and gratitude for what I have, for what I WON! But there will always also be sorrow for what I lost, for what I missed, for the years that were taken away. And for the role that I played in my own abduction.
I have many blessings. I even count the sorrows as blessings--because, as so many of you have pointed out, they give us compassion and gratitude.
Still. . . . sometimes I have to just stop and accept the sadness and feel it so that I can get back to all those other feelings.
Today, I suppose, is just a natural day for these reflections. I am so grateful for my life with Mr. Longlost. And I am so grateful for the friends and loved ones that I have found again after so many lost years. Still, I mourn the life I lost with the one who loved me before the Bizarro abduction. And I mourn the loss of my illusions, though I am also heartily glad that they are gone.
Tonight, I will laugh and drink champagne. I'll kiss my husband, and I'll hear my old sweetheart's voice on the phone, and I will be glad for a wonderful life and a future that is still filled with potential. For now, though, I allow a few tears for what might have been and for that lost girl that I once was.
Thank you for listening, (((Tribe)))
I too lost a good part of myself in my experience with my XNPD. A part of my innocence is gone forever. The part of me that dared to dream and that part of me who was carefree has been replaced with a woman who can't be too careful. A woman who double and triple checks her locks at night and double and triple checks to be sure the security system is armed and the telephone lines are up and running. I still wake up in the middle of the night sometimes and check again.
Time has eased some of the burden and I hope with more time it even gets better.
Tonight I will wish for THIS to be the year that I don't see him, hear from him, have to call the police on him, have him stalking me, or deal with him in any manner what-so-ever.
Always the optimist, 2008 will be the year! Happy New Year everyone. May you all find peace and happiness.
When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
OC born 2001 (I didn't know)
Remarried 2008 (Happy!)
I wish for you:
Silence in the silence.
Safety in the darkness.
Peace when you are alone.
Comfort in your own blankets.
Wholeness once again.
Many positive thoughts for each and every one of you.
Ah, but she can't take you any way
You don't already know how to go ~ Eagles
Recieved text from STBXPDW as follows:
I kno youv been off of wrk n the kids r havin fun with u but im so hurt n depressd i dont know what 2 do. can we pls wrk this out?
For grins, NoControl, would you decipher this please? LOL.
Hope all is well today as we all embark on a new year. May that which you believe in give you strenght, support, and many blessings and reward you for your valiant fighting for what is right, for you and yours and for standing up for yourselves.
It drives me crazy that you and the kids are happier without me there screwing everything up. Nobody is paying any attention to me, and I don't understand why I can't manipulate you like I used to. Please give me a hint as to what I can say or do to get you wrapped around my little finger again for a while. I want you to amuse me and worship me until the next victim comes along. Then I can just take off again, knowing you'll always be there for me to land on when I fall.
Maybe this isn't fair. I don't even know the woman. But I know what you've told me, BoB. And I think this is pretty much what she's saying.
Beware! Be good to yourself. She won't be good to you or for you.
[This message edited by Longlost at 3:29 PM, January 1st (Tuesday)]
Hey, BoB, I gotta text from STBXN as well -- at 12:30am last night. It said "Happy New Years. Hope you are safe." I did NOT text back.
BoB, hang in there!
I think the hardest thing is that hs own brother told me this holiday that H spent our entire marriage (29 years in three weeks) saying horrible things about me to his family. Of course, I was unaware. This is also FOO. His dad did the same thing to his mom. I am asking your advice. H admits this did happen. Should I ask what things he told them, or for the sake of progress in our R, let the admission be enough? I feel compelled to ask, but not if it will damage all of the hard work we have done. I appreciate your thoughts.
As you are well aware it is very difficult to R with an NPD. Getting then into therapy is nothing short of a miracle. Then you have probably spent lots of time wondering if his intentions are sincere. The truth is you'll probably never know for sure. In the life of an N, the mind games run far and deep.
The fact that your H had bad-mouthed you behind your back to his family without your knowledge is not surprising. I wouldn't be surprised at all to hear that he has done this within other social circles as well. (ie, friends, co-workers, neighbors, etc.) For the NPD, control is everything. If they don't feel they have the "upper hand" they will TELL everyone who will listen that they do. It's just another NPD "game."
Should I ask what things he told them, or for the sake of progress in our R, let the admission be enough? I feel compelled to ask, but not if it will damage all of the hard work we have done. I appreciate your thoughts.
Why bother? I'm sure the things he has said are horrible, hurtful and mean. He's saying them to "fit in" and who knows, maybe he really does mean it he says it and it's his way of NPD venting.
Unfortunately deciding to R with a diagnosed NPD, you must accept the fact that there are some things that are never going to change. This may be one thing that is just the nature of the beast. Knowing that and accepting it is part of what you can do to make R possible.
You do realize that even with years and years of the BEST therapy, he's not going to completely change? The best you'll likely get is an impovement of what you already have. I commend you in making it 29 years. I'm guessing that these years have been difficult for you and that you have had to tolerate more than your share of heartache.
[This message edited by sadtoo at 9:06 AM, January 2nd (Wednesday)]
Personally, I would want to know...and I also feel that an N stays an N. Its like asking a Tiger to change his stripes into spots...
[This message edited by dreamlife at 10:43 AM, January 2nd (Wednesday)]
For everyone: Happy New Year!
About the whole badmouthing you to other people thing, I can definitely relate. My husband told countless lies about me to EVERYBODY. For example, once he was building a stander for our daughter, and since he didn't have the right parts, he picked up different parts and tried to make do. It didn't. I would absolutely feel unsafe with our daughter on it. I should also point out that doing things for the kids is NOT his norm. The only reason why he did it was because I said I was going to get my brother to do it. Anyhow, I calmly told him what I felt unsafe about. By the time it got to other people, however, I screamed at him that it was horrible and I couldn't point out anything specific that was wrong with it; I was just doing it to be nasty. When I got pregnant with our daughter, he had been telling people that we didn't have sex. To cover himself, he was then telling people that there was a very real possibility that our daughter was not his -- until someone told him that he was a punk, not a hero, for raising someone else's child. He accused me a few weeks ago of giving him an STD -- I go to work and come back, when I am not taking our kids to doctors' appointments, PT, OT, etc. HE was the one who had a woman over AT MY HOUSE a few weeks ago, and left in the middle of the evening to make a run 30 minutes away after getting some withheld phone calls and was gone for 3 hours. If you're dealing with an N, you could be hearing days upon days worth of stuff like this. It will just hurt your feelings, and if you're dealing with N parents, they won't care about setting the story straight.
And that, I guess, should be your first lesson about dealing with an N: N does not stand for normal. You can't deal with them like you do normal people. You can't even think, or empathize like you're dealing with normal. You can't even expect normal. As an example, I used to think that my N MIL took pleasure in me doing good things and having a good time because she was my friend and wanted me to do good things and have a good time. I later found out that she wanted me to be happy because that meant that her son was a great person, as nutty as that sounds.
So if you're detached enough (and if he's honest enough about it) to hear it, that's up to you. If you're in a kindly, sympathetic mode, it might be better to wait.
ETA: I guess my point is that if you want to hear about it to clear the air and give yourself peace of mind, the chances are actually greater that you will have less peace of mind than before. If he is N, you will probably find out, like I and others did, that not only did he tell lies to cover his ass, but he actively made up stories and rewrote your actions with the deliberate intent of turning other people against you.
[This message edited by veritas at 2:42 PM, January 2nd (Wednesday)]
Veritas: That was beautiful (and funny !!!).
The admissions I got were similar but he never stopped badmouthing me and telling lies. Who cares if he says he is sorry etc. If someone is sorry they CHANGE and stay changed.
29 years is a very long time. I am sure that he has you "trained", in many ways, to accept him and his behaviours. Personally, I could not take it any more and wanted a real life instead of living the shadow existance that was my life. I was done being an appendage and being treated like he was king and I was his servant. I want to be an equal and anything else is not ok. I would rather be alone than live life that way.
The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.
A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.
But then, I left!
It is possible (though probably unlikely) that your husband is not a died-in-the-wool Narcissist. With all the Ns in his family, he might have just picked up some N traits to survive. Perhaps that is why he has been able to make improvements. Who knows??
I guess the bottom line is this: are YOU happy? Do you feel that you are doing the right thing? Or are you chopping off pieces of yourself to try to fulfill his needs? Because you can't, you know. Nothing can.
Whatever you do, I wish you all the best, and I am very sorry that I don't have anything more encouraging to say.