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User Topic: Reconciling with the "Emotionally Unavailable"
chelle1966316
♀ Member
Member # 4969
Default  Posted: 7:50 PM, December 3rd (Monday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the new addition.
Not only do I deal with this issue now but have in the past.It makes marriage difficult.
Being married to an emotional unavailable person can really do things to the emotionally available spouse.


I am WS from Feb 2004-April 2004 first then a BS.
Together since 1981,married 1987 to present.Divorced,March 2012,for financial reasons, but still together until end of October 2012.Now hes having a midlife crisis and living away from home.


Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2004 | From: Maine
chelle1966316
♀ Member
Member # 4969
Default  Posted: 8:40 PM, December 3rd (Monday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How do people act emotionally unavailable?


* They're emotionally distant and extremely remote, except when courting.


* They're too busy, sick, tired or preoccupied with other things. Their energy, time and life-force are all taken with other priorities.


* They frequently work a lot , and don't have quality time to spend with you.


* They're not responsive. They ignore you and your requests, and they don't try hard to make a relationship work.


* They don't, won't or can't commit to a relationship.


* They may be extremely critical and judgmental, so you may have a hard time doing anything "right" in their eyes.


* They may flirt with other people, and may not value monogamy.


* They may watch TV or sports a lot, read, work-out, or otherwise be preoccupied with something or someone that routinely interferes with their ability to be with you.
* They may be addicted to some substance, such as alcohol, drugs or food, which renders them incapable of being present and truly available to another person.

* People already married or involved with someone else are
frequently emotionally unavailable, regardless of what they
profess.
* They do not place a value on acting with honesty, honor or
integrity in their relationships with others. They're full
of excuses as to why they can't be with you, do things with
you, or be available for you.

If it seems that you routinely love your partner more than he or
she loves you, that you express affection, care and commitment more
than you receive, presume that you are involved with an emotionally
unavailable partner.

Emotionally unavailable people may profess to love you and care
about you, and they may make wonderful promises about your future
together, but they don't follow through with believable behaviors
that make you feel wanted and secure around them.>


I am WS from Feb 2004-April 2004 first then a BS.
Together since 1981,married 1987 to present.Divorced,March 2012,for financial reasons, but still together until end of October 2012.Now hes having a midlife crisis and living away from home.


Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2004 | From: Maine
Frogger
♀ Member
Member # 15442
Default  Posted: 9:36 PM, December 3rd (Monday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First Chelle awesome list--did you write that yourself?

Second I have a Holy Sh%t to share.

I forwarded an email to WH about a family a friend is adopting for the holidays to ask if we could donate--well actually to apoligize for agreeing to donate before checking with him.

Anyway he wrote back that my email made him CRY because seeing the list for those kids made him realize how lucky he is. (They lost their Dad) and that I could give as much as I wanted.

Who is this man? And can I keep him?


Love isn't enough, you need respect and trust. -Jimi40

Posts: 2296 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Florida
sunlil
♀ Member
Member # 6312
Default  Posted: 11:28 PM, December 3rd (Monday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you reckon who ever invented the saying " banging your head against a brick wall" was married to one?????????

Yes, they must have been!


Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced. - Lucille Ball

Posts: 2518 | Registered: Jan 2005 | From: Central Nevada
megmegryry
♀ Member
Member # 10740
Default  Posted: 11:41 PM, December 3rd (Monday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The one about watching tv hits home my H either watches tv or tunes out playing games online. MF'er payy attention to meeeeeee!

Posts: 663 | Registered: May 2006
sunlil
♀ Member
Member # 6312
Default  Posted: 11:47 PM, December 3rd (Monday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

After 7 years he has never complimented me without prodding and I ususally ask do I look ok and he says you look fine or you look nice.

My H is the same way. When we were "courting" he was capable of complimenting me and being romantic but after we got married those things just faded away.

I realize that the honeymoon eventually ends but he never ever extends a compliment to me unless I fish for it. I've explained to him that my emotional needs include words of appreciation and occasional romantic gestures (like a note or flowers), I've laid it all out CLEARLY.
But he doesn't do it.

I've asked why he doesn't do these things and he only says he doesn't know why he doesn't do those things.

Sometimes I feel like he doesn't even see me, I might as well be invisible.

He's been out of town (for training) since the end of November.
While he's been gone I got my hair cut and got new glasses. My hair is probably at least 3 inches shorter and my new glasses are a completely different style than my previous pair. I went from frameless lenses to black frames in a different shape.

I didn't tell him about either of these things because I wanted to surprise him.

I finally got the webcam up and working tonight so he could see me. He said absolutely nothing about my new haircut or my new glasses. I know he could see me because he commented on things the kids were doing in the background but not a word about the changes. Not even a "Hey you got new glasses!"

It made me feel unseen. Sometimes a relationship with an EU spouse is so damn lonely.


Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced. - Lucille Ball

Posts: 2518 | Registered: Jan 2005 | From: Central Nevada
sunlil
♀ Member
Member # 6312
Default  Posted: 11:48 PM, December 3rd (Monday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Emotionally unavailable people may profess to love you and care
about you, and they may make wonderful promises about your future
together, but they don't follow through with believable behaviors
that make you feel wanted and secure around them.

chelle, that whole list is SPOT ON!


Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced. - Lucille Ball

Posts: 2518 | Registered: Jan 2005 | From: Central Nevada
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, December 4th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

chelle, great list and my H fits every single one of those characteristics.

funny that when we were dating, I knew he was hard to get through to, hard to get to commit (we dated for 6 years), never cried, never showed anything but humor, sarcasm a little. But I just "knew" all that stuff was inside him covered by the thick layer of macho. Maybe I was wrong all along.

Frogger... I find my H crying at all sorts of things now. It's a good sign!


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
ithastogive
♀ Member
Member # 16208
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WOW, this thread just keeps giving me more descriptions of my M. I know I am not in R but I can honestly say that the EU/PA behaviors of my H are more than I am willing to deal with at this point.

Meg, are we married to the same man???? Honestly every post of yours describes my H to a T. Especially when you typed:

In my case I feel my husband believes by being here and providing for the family that is emotional support. Lame huh? He can get mad though, I think it's more taxing to get angry than to say I feel sad,happy etc....

My husband has continually says he tried and showed me he loved me in every way he knew how. He went to work and made a steady income and he came home every night to me (this part is true for the last 7 or 8 years) and whatnot. But he fails to see the hours in a day he sits with his video games or the hours he spent at night looking at porn or reading erotic stories rather than sharing intimate times with me.

The whole I don't have time for this or that bullshit because he has time for all the other things besides what's important to me.

Honestly, this thread has been the most eye opening in all of SI for me.

Thanks to whoever decided to open this!!!


Me-WW/BW 34
Him--BH/WH 37
Heading for Divorce and know its the right thing to do.


Posts: 268 | Registered: Sep 2007
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The whole I don't have time for this or that bullshit because he has time for all the other things besides what's important to me.

I can honestly say that is not the case in my house any more. He hasn't done one thing for anyone else before considering whether he's completed his duties at home first.

Last weekend he cancelled his IC appt because he "had" to work. Well, he'd missed 2 days pay because of weather, so that was acceptable. But this week he called and was going to cancel this weekend's appt too, I asked him if he really HAD to work. He said no and made the IC appt.

He went with me to our township commissioner's meeting on Monday night. He's never attended before, left it up to me to do civic duty. He would sit home and play video games or watch tv, he is now involved in OUR home environment.

We are going with his family to cut our Christmas tree this weekend. It's a big event every year. We went when the kids were very small. Never even considered it during his A years. And it was HIS suggestion.

He still "runs" if I get sad or angry or depressed. Hasn't a clue how to get involved there, but I do think the "everyone before us" attitude is gone.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
megmegryry
♀ Member
Member # 10740
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ithastogive


I actually brought it up about his gaming, he pointed out he has been good and has not palyed as much lately, whatever.

My dad has boishock and when we go to my dad's we never see Mr.Megmeg, because he is playing games. He has bioshock here, but he needs a new video card to play it. Our computer has some issues though its about 3 years old. Hee F'ing wanted to spend the money on a video card so he could play bioshock. He has a speeding ticket he never told me about to pay for.

In the past he would play Rakion online until about one or two am when he has to be to work at seven and then he would come home from work and sleep and ignore Mini Me #1 & #2 and me!!

He got Mini Me #1 into rakion!

I sent this as a reply to a message but I think it fit's here as well. I have been drawing boundaries lately.


My husband cant play certain games because our computer is lacking the right video card. A bonus right, no because he will play something else. But I told him since our computer is not working that well and that he cant buy a new video card but we will get a better computer after we get our tax return.I made it clear the reason I say this is because our computer is not fuctioning and the bonus is he can play his games but he cant go on ignoring us. In the meanwhile he still can't play bioshock so waiting over a month to play will make him lose interest I hope. I told my H I did my part in the R for almost 2 years and he never tried to R so he is now rowing the boat and I told him you control the oars now. No real changes yet but still no gaming the past few nights and it seems this time he is getting it. I printed a few articles from the healing library and he read one too. So I am hopeful he may turn this around.

[This message edited by megmegryry at 11:53 AM, December 5th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 663 | Registered: May 2006
survivingslowly
♀ Member
Member # 14214
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK, guys, I need some help here. Truly honest opinions and 2 x 4's if necessary.

Background is that we are almost 9 months post dday and living apart and *trying* to R. He's doing lots and lots of the right stuff and reading about EA/PA, etc. He's trying, he really is. Its me, lately I've been difficult, simply difficult. We're coming up to the holidays and I'm at the point of thinking about "this time last year....", he had already crossed the boundaries with OW this time last year. It was EA and some PA (just not intercourse yet, I think). So even though, dday wasn't until Mar. '07, I still keep thinking about how he was lying all through last x-mas, while I was trying to make the season special for our family etc. So below is a copy of an e-mail he sent to me and my response back to him. You woul have to scroll down to see his message first, then scroll back up to read my response. Please, honest opinions and also would like to know if anyone has dealt with this in IC and how your IC has helped. Thanks, guys. and sorry so long.


I respect that you have an opinion on this, although I don't agree completely.

I understand that the *_____* you see, is angry and sad and resentful and a whole bunch of other things. I guess you also need to understand that this is not the *_____* that other people see and that I don't see either.

I don't walk around in a funk or angry all the time. I just don't....and I haven't for a long time. If you ask _____, ____, ____, my parents, my acquaintances, none of them would agree that I'm angry, or depressed or in a funk. Those people see me as generally happy, funny, quite upbeat etc. Sure, I was envious of my sister and her little "nest" of a family. I'm sure I would feel that way regardless of where you and I are at....this year...anyway, maybe future years.

The anger that I feel is when I am around you. And I think its really that I'm angry at myself and projecting that onto you. I think that I'm angry at myself for going against a core value. This is something that I've struggled with for a long time. I feel like I'm letting myself down at the most deepest level by reconciling with you. It doesn't matter what you say, what you do, how remorseful you are blah, blah, blah. Its me that I can't forgive. I won't be able to forgive myself for staying married to you, in the long run, children or no children. That's been my struggle for months now. That's why its so exhausting talking to you. You and I know there's nothing more you can do, you can't erase what you did, you can be remorseful for every day that you are alive after this.....and very likely, I will still never forgive myself. That is why I'm angry.... that I'm walking down the road to reconciliation....and the deepest part of my soul knows that this is wrong for me. So what do I do? Ignore that inner voice and just go along...just so everyone else is happy? Counselling isn't going to change my core values.....in fact, it should never seek out to do that. Its a core value, its as simple as that. This is something that you *knew* when you married me....we had talked about infidelity being a deal breaker....and yet, you chose to behave in a way that directly conflicts with one of my core values, a dealbreaker. It matters little what else happens from here on in, a core value has been violated. How I handle that is the question...do I just swallow hard and say to myself "_____, change your values....bah humbug on the core value bullshit.....so what, he fucked around, big fucking deal, get over it, its not just about you, ya know." Sure I can do this......there will always be a place deep inside that knows that now, not only was I violated by you, by now, I was violated by ME. I wonder how a counsellor (and yes, this is the correct spelling.....your councillor works at city hall), would handle that!!

And, yes, I may make the decision to violate my own core values, and if I do, I will be forever changed, and it won't be for the positive.

So, although I respect that you have an opinion, please be aware that my "funk" has more to do with being around you more than anything else. The more time I spend with you, the more time I spend in the funk. I've seen it myself. Which is why I like to limit the contact I have with you, because I'm a happier person when I don't spend so much time with you. And I'm terrified at even the prospect of us living in the same house again.....I don't want to live in anger or in a funk all the time. Right now, the time I have to see you...is plenty....of time in the funk....its like a prison term at times. And so, yes, maybe counselling can be useful in helping me to forgive myself. However, right now, I can't see it being feasible with the holidays etc. and all the other stuff that I need energy for to get through the holidays. Maybe in the new year, I may look into it, but to be completely honest, I'm not a huge believer anymore after our experiences. I honestly think that I know myself better and that many of these people are just fumbling in the dark. If I could just have Dr. Phil once a week....then maybe, just maybe.....(how much money did you say you made on the stocks?) But seriously, I really haven't got alot out of it in the past and I think I'm a pretty *good* client in that I'm not resistant...I give them lots of working material etc. And all they ever seem to do is turn it back on me and say "What do *you* think you need to do?" C'mon, really. And my answer would be: I don't *want* to love you anymore. Its not a question of whether I *can* love you, I just don't want to....a boundary has clearly been violated, and lied about, again and again. And yet, 3 children have been born from this marriage....and I love them with every ounce of my being, so I struggle with trying to make their youth, their childhood memories the *best ever*....I don't want them to ever experience pain, feelings of abandonment, feeling like Daddy's not there etc. And then.....I have an experience where ______ is made to feel embarrassed by you....then I think, "what the hell...", why am I trying so hard to make this better for everyone Clearly, its not working, I don't want my daughter to feel the exact same way with her own father that I felt with my husband (and my own father)...uggghhh, it hurts, she feels embarrassment that you caused her to feel, yet she puts her hand lightly on your leg.....go figure, the classic push/pull. So....I get angry all over again...and its not about _____, that's just a trigger, but its about the whole thing again, going against a core value, hitting me in the face again and again and again. Its like I'm going to be this supreme bitch from hell when one little thing goes wrong because it reinforces to me all over again that I went against a core value and I can't change my reality. "It is what it is". And "what it is" simply sucks!

At some point, you may need to ask yourself some hard questions....how much do you love me? Do you love me enough to not require me to violate my own core values? Clearly, right now, the answer is no.
This is his message to me:

I know you are going to tell me to f off, but the state of mind that you are in is not fun nor healthy for you. I sincerely believe that you should see a councillor to get the anger out and reframe your entire life. That is my thoughts for your happiness.


The above is not so you and I can get back together, although that is my dream and wish, but this is truly for you and you alone. You need to get out of this funk and I believe that someone objective is the best way to help you do that.


This is truly meant for you, I am not being your therapist, and I don't need any further discussion around this. It pains me to see you in such pain, and the only one who can get you out of this is you. The past is the past, how are you going to deal with your future thought processes is the important thing. I did a rotten thing and I deal with my own guilt and unhappiness every day, but I can't change what I did no matter how mad you get at me, no matter if you divorce me, no matter how many times you remind me of it, etc - ... I can only change how I act in the future. I am not being a shit here, but only facing the fact that the past can't be changed.


Please consider the above with nothing but loving intentions and only for the betterment of our children and their mom's happiness.


Me


BS-me
FWH-him

dday#1-March/07

Fully reconciled. Life is really good!!


Posts: 310 | Registered: Apr 2007
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, we have dealt with this with 2 separate ICs.

He's right on one point... you can't go around angry at yourself for betraying yourself forever. You have to learn to forgive yourself first before you can even consider forgiving him. Before you can really begin R if that's what you want. But honestly, by your response it doesn't sound like you want to.

I'll tell you that I told my H the exact same things... that I couldn't ever get over the anger with him still in my life, that his mere physical presence shot up my blood pressure and sent my heartrate skyrocketing. And my IC helped me deal with those feelings too because he refused to leave.

I would say that ESPECIALLY with the stress of the holidays etc that you get some help.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
megmegryry
♀ Member
Member # 10740
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can you repost that a little bigger and mark where he is talking and the nyou. I can't see it that well.

Posts: 663 | Registered: May 2006
survivingslowly
♀ Member
Member # 14214
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

meg, I can't seem to make it bigger. Is it just my message that appears small? On my screen, it looks normal.

There is a part in the quoted box that is marked in bold that says "This is his message to me:", then it goes on to say what his e-mail was to me.

I hope that you can read it because I would really like to know what you and others think.


BS-me
FWH-him

dday#1-March/07

Fully reconciled. Life is really good!!


Posts: 310 | Registered: Apr 2007
megmegryry
♀ Member
Member # 10740
Default  Posted: 3:39 PM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know how something looks here when you post it as a quote that is how it looks it's soo hard for me to read.


Im going to copy and paste you etter in here and see if that fixes it

I respect that you have an opinion on this, although I don't agree completely.

I understand that the *_____* you see, is angry and sad and resentful and a whole bunch of other things. I guess you also need to understand that this is not the *_____* that other people see and that I don't see either.

I don't walk around in a funk or angry all the time. I just don't....and I haven't for a long time. If you ask _____, ____, ____, my parents, my acquaintances, none of them would agree that I'm angry, or depressed or in a funk. Those people see me as generally happy, funny, quite upbeat etc. Sure, I was envious of my sister and her little "nest" of a family. I'm sure I would feel that way regardless of where you and I are at....this year...anyway, maybe future years.

The anger that I feel is when I am around you. And I think its really that I'm angry at myself and projecting that onto you. I think that I'm angry at myself for going against a core value. This is something that I've struggled with for a long time. I feel like I'm letting myself down at the most deepest level by reconciling with you. It doesn't matter what you say, what you do, how remorseful you are blah, blah, blah. Its me that I can't forgive. I won't be able to forgive myself for staying married to you, in the long run, children or no children. That's been my struggle for months now. That's why its so exhausting talking to you. You and I know there's nothing more you can do, you can't erase what you did, you can be remorseful for every day that you are alive after this.....and very likely, I will still never forgive myself. That is why I'm angry.... that I'm walking down the road to reconciliation....and the deepest part of my soul knows that this is wrong for me. So what do I do? Ignore that inner voice and just go along...just so everyone else is happy? Counselling isn't going to change my core values.....in fact, it should never seek out to do that. Its a core value, its as simple as that. This is something that you *knew* when you married me....we had talked about infidelity being a deal breaker....and yet, you chose to behave in a way that directly conflicts with one of my core values, a dealbreaker. It matters little what else happens from here on in, a core value has been violated. How I handle that is the question...do I just swallow hard and say to myself "_____, change your values....bah humbug on the core value bullshit.....so what, he fucked around, big fucking deal, get over it, its not just about you, ya know." Sure I can do this......there will always be a place deep inside that knows that now, not only was I violated by you, by now, I was violated by ME. I wonder how a counsellor (and yes, this is the correct spelling.....your councillor works at city hall), would handle that!!

And, yes, I may make the decision to violate my own core values, and if I do, I will be forever changed, and it won't be for the positive.

So, although I respect that you have an opinion, please be aware that my "funk" has more to do with being around you more than anything else. The more time I spend with you, the more time I spend in the funk. I've seen it myself. Which is why I like to limit the contact I have with you, because I'm a happier person when I don't spend so much time with you. And I'm terrified at even the prospect of us living in the same house again.....I don't want to live in anger or in a funk all the time. Right now, the time I have to see you...is plenty....of time in the funk....its like a prison term at times. And so, yes, maybe counselling can be useful in helping me to forgive myself. However, right now, I can't see it being feasible with the holidays etc. and all the other stuff that I need energy for to get through the holidays. Maybe in the new year, I may look into it, but to be completely honest, I'm not a huge believer anymore after our experiences. I honestly think that I know myself better and that many of these people are just fumbling in the dark. If I could just have Dr. Phil once a week....then maybe, just maybe.....(how much money did you say you made on the stocks?) But seriously, I really haven't got alot out of it in the past and I think I'm a pretty *good* client in that I'm not resistant...I give them lots of working material etc. And all they ever seem to do is turn it back on me and say "What do *you* think you need to do?" C'mon, really. And my answer would be: I don't *want* to love you anymore. Its not a question of whether I *can* love you, I just don't want to....a boundary has clearly been violated, and lied about, again and again. And yet, 3 children have been born from this marriage....and I love them with every ounce of my being, so I struggle with trying to make their youth, their childhood memories the *best ever*....I don't want them to ever experience pain, feelings of abandonment, feeling like Daddy's not there etc. And then.....I have an experience where ______ is made to feel embarrassed by you....then I think, "what the hell...", why am I trying so hard to make this better for everyone Clearly, its not working, I don't want my daughter to feel the exact same way with her own father that I felt with my husband (and my own father)...uggghhh, it hurts, she feels embarrassment that you caused her to feel, yet she puts her hand lightly on your leg.....go figure, the classic push/pull. So....I get angry all over again...and its not about _____, that's just a trigger, but its about the whole thing again, going against a core value, hitting me in the face again and again and again. Its like I'm going to be this supreme bitch from hell when one little thing goes wrong because it reinforces to me all over again that I went against a core value and I can't change my reality. "It is what it is". And "what it is" simply sucks!

At some point, you may need to ask yourself some hard questions....how much do you love me? Do you love me enough to not require me to violate my own core values? Clearly, right now, the answer is no.
This is his message to me:

I know you are going to tell me to f off, but the state of mind that you are in is not fun nor healthy for you. I sincerely believe that you should see a councillor to get the anger out and reframe your entire life. That is my thoughts for your happiness.


The above is not so you and I can get back together, although that is my dream and wish, but this is truly for you and you alone. You need to get out of this funk and I believe that someone objective is the best way to help you do that.


This is truly meant for you, I am not being your therapist, and I don't need any further discussion around this. It pains me to see you in such pain, and the only one who can get you out of this is you. The past is the past, how are you going to deal with your future thought processes is the important thing. I did a rotten thing and I deal with my own guilt and unhappiness every day, but I can't change what I did no matter how mad you get at me, no matter if you divorce me, no matter how many times you remind me of it, etc - ... I can only change how I act in the future. I am not being a shit here, but only facing the fact that the past can't be changed.


Please consider the above with nothing but loving intentions and only for the betterment of our children and their mom's happiness.


Posts: 663 | Registered: May 2006
megmegryry
♀ Member
Member # 10740
Default  Posted: 3:49 PM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He wrote you a letter via email and that is a start towards expressing his emptions. I have told my H repeadly that if it is too hard to say it then write in down. After writing and sending stuff for awhile it makes it easier to start saying it, IMHO.

Has he replied to your response yet ?

He said "The above is not so you and I can get back together, although that is my dream and wish" which is a good thing. He is telling you what he wants and he is expressing it as a wish and a dream, but a step in the right direction I think.

I just think he is worried about you being angry and in a "funk" even saying that is a good thing IMHO. I could be in a funk for a week and my H would never say a damn thing about it.

It seems to me he is reaching out to you in his own way, definatly a good sign.

[This message edited by megmegryry at 3:52 PM, December 5th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 663 | Registered: May 2006
Brass Ring
♀ Member
Member # 10727
Default  Posted: 4:14 PM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Surviving,

I am a little confused. Is there nothing he can do?

You have spoken often of his EU/PA tendencies. Is it that you feel you cannot get past his A because you would be violating your core values, or is it because he hasn't been able to empathesize with your pain and demonstrate (in his words and conduct) true remorse?

Brass


Me: BS 54
Him: WS 54
Married 17 years, two beautiful D's, 10 and 13.
D-day 5/10/04
Trying to pick up the pieces after my H's infidelity derailed our M.

Posts: 230 | Registered: May 2006 | From: East Coast
survivingslowly
♀ Member
Member # 14214
Default  Posted: 4:45 PM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Brass, maybe a bit of both but more about the core value thing.

I guess the A really opened my eyes to the type of M we had. I mean, I feel like I can't relate to many people on other boards like the R one who say that their WS was their true love, their one and only etc.

Upon reflection, I'm looking at my M through different lenses and it actually looked pretty flat to me.

So many themes come up again and again which indicate the EA/PA stuff but i didn't have the words to describe it then, but I tried oh in soo many ways to try and *reach* him. Only to feel time after time after time that I was simply not a high priority for him.

Eventually I *got that*, about 2 months prior to his A beginning. I turned to others for those needs, none inappropriate, but friends, family etc, many who were at the same parenting stage. I wasn't angry, bitter, I just did what I needed to do to *feel* like I mattered.

Well, then apparently he must have felt that on some level b/c he started his EA/PA 2 months later.

Evidently, he doesn't like it when I match his level of emotional investment.

I truly feel like by R, I don't stand to gain a whole bunch. Mainly a daddy for the kids.

I mean, he was gone when I woke up (work), we *never*, I mean *never* shared a family meal together (only weekends) due to him always working late, anything that I may have asked him to do, he'd procrastinate and finally do it after much ado.

It was *always* me who made time for and planned family time, activites, vacation etc.

He was such a non-participant.

He wasn't involved in the kids' school stuff, after me letting him know and showing him that our first grader comes home *everyday* with a journal that needs to be read and signed...he *never* once picked it up and read it. He was with OW during parent/teacher conferences, was late for something that I felt was soo very important.

But....he liked the sex....and expected me to just jump right on it when he was in the mood.

The time in our M where I felt the closest to him, the most connected was at the end of my pregnancies, at birth and right after the births of our children. I loved it when he had to have his cell on in case I went into labor. I think it was the only time that I truly felt first ahead of work.

Do I want all of this back? Hell, no. Can he really change? I mean, I'm really feeling doubtful of that. I need a true partner, not a fourth child.

I really think the only reason we got married was b/c we got pregnant. And its not like we were young. I was in mid-30's and he was in early 40's when we got pg the first time.

I just feel sad to think about going back to that, ya know?


BS-me
FWH-him

dday#1-March/07

Fully reconciled. Life is really good!!


Posts: 310 | Registered: Apr 2007
Brass Ring
♀ Member
Member # 10727
Default  Posted: 5:18 PM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, yes. I know.

And as you know I am working on this with my own H. He's been slow on the learning curve and I don't know if he can change, but he wants to. He's is trying to learn how. I've told him that I would never go back to our old marriage. He knows that. Up until relatively recently he didn't think that he could change. He still has doubts here but what about your H? Has he truly accepted the notion of needing to change? Is he actively working on it?

I also still deal with the core values thing, the fact that while married me my H had a first kiss and felt passionate feelings for someone else, and that (in my case) he still seems to look at all of those feeling through a lens that is still sometimes foggy.

It does sound like your anger is getting in the way. Can you get IC? It is the biggest issue that I have been dealing with in IC (both my anger at my H and my anger at myself for accepting a "less than" M that culminated in his horrible A).

Anger is almost a comfortable place for a BS (it kills the pain), but it is not a very useful emotion when we are trying to figure out the answers to serious questions about our lives.

I can understand your outrage at your H's suggestion that he's "done his part" but only you can work on your anger. He may have a point on your need to work on your anger but he might not be the best one to doling out the advice here.

He should really be focusing on what he can do. He can help you with your anger by showing compassion and reassuring you. He can "let" you be angry, very very angry. And he can accept responsibility for his personal inadequacies (his PA/EU tendencies that are probably at the root of his A) as being the source of your pain and anger.

But even with that (if he can give that to you) you are going to have to find a way to deal with your anger so that it doesn't derail your decision making process.

It's unfair and it sucks and I just hate it all. But since a lobotomy seems the only other option, I don't think we have much of a choice on this---whether we stay in the marriage or leave.

Brass

[This message edited by Brass Ring at 5:22 PM, December 5th (Wednesday)]


Me: BS 54
Him: WS 54
Married 17 years, two beautiful D's, 10 and 13.
D-day 5/10/04
Trying to pick up the pieces after my H's infidelity derailed our M.

Posts: 230 | Registered: May 2006 | From: East Coast
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