Unfortunatly I know exactly what you mean.
Cant offer you anything except empathetic hugs***WRW***
The only emotion that my H seems to routinely feel comfortable with is anger. That he expresses well. Well, sort of. His reason for having his As: I was angry at you.
He was wonderful when courting, just like he is in public. He comes across so soft-spoken and humble, so poetic. He bought flowers. All the neat stuff.
Of course, the change after marriage is all my fault. And I am the one who is passive aggressive. I admit, I am terrible at asking for what I want, and I do get hurt when I quietly ask or hint and it is not noticed. And I am working on that, because I know it isn't fair to expect mind-reading. it's not getting me to far, though, because even when I speak my mind, my wants tend to be ignored if they aren't the most popular. Sigh. Or he'll say he will do something, then forget or not have time. Isn't this a bit P/A?
Okay, enough whining. I haven't gone through the whole post....is there a good definition somewhere of P/A behavior????
Sorry that you are experiencing this. It can be very frustrating!!
You are not alone
Recognizing your past will prevent you from destroying your future!
Well, I think we quite WAYYY to early! I started going in Aug of 2006 right before dday. Then after dday #2 I insisted he go too. After a few sessions, we ended up going together. We changed our insurance in April 2007 and our new policy doesn't cover it.
Well, with recently realizing that my H is definately a passive aggressive person, we need help. I have read up on this and I just don't know the right way to handle it. I know H is going to throw a fit about the cost but we need to do something before I blow!!
I think we will both be a little more receptive this thime as last time we both had such up and down emotions about the A. This time around, I want it to be about changing the dynamics of our relationship. I truly believe that his PA personality is what allowed him to have the A in the first place.
Anyone else go for round 2 of MC?
Anyone return to MC after not going for several months? Was it more helpful the second time around?
I just told my H that I am going back and asked if he would be interested and surprisingly he said yes!
Maybe you could explain to the MC about your insurance and could pay on a sliding scale?
I think my H will feel way more comfortable this time. He was very antsy when all we were talking about was the A. He talked but I could tell he didn't want to. He was ashamed and embarrassed and would not look the MC in the eye. However, he did like when she would tell me something about me because it would take the heat off of him.
As for the insurance, they take our insurance, it's just that it is a savings type plan now so I will get a discount for having a provider that they accept. I don't really care about that anyway. We are going regardless!
I called to make the appointment and can't get in until Jan. 8. So, we have a couple of weeks to decide on our own topics we want to discuss.
I posted this on the R forum the other day.....and thought very fitting to post it here as well.....this post is the first one from Monday and the next is today's.
Ughhhh.....dealing with these "men" really takes a toll on an emotionally available, non-passive aggressive woman.
Warm and understanding Hugs to you all!!!!!!!
Okay, so WH had a co-worker (male) who I knew.....not REALLY well, but they worked together for about 6 or so years, he'd come over to our home a few times, they golfed together all the time etc. Anyways, after the A's were discovered, I told my WH that this person was NOT a friend of our marriage and I told him he could choose to have him as a friend, or me as a spouse. What made it equally painful was not just that this person didn't proactively call me and rat my WH out. After I knew about one (the MAIN A)....I was speaking to this person on the phone, and he went on and on and on, about in all the years he's known my WH, this is the FIRST time he's ever done anything like this etc etc etc (LIES) On D-day#2, those lies he told me were confirmed as my WH's FIRST attempted A actually included meeting chicks at a club WITH this non-friend of the marriage. Okay, so there's the history.
Now.....this guy hasn't been at work (off on leave) for about 6 mos. Makes ME happy. Yesterday, my WH had his work cell # at home and I noticed this guys tel # on there, my WH called him last week. He called him to invite him to the workplace for lunch. The restaurant they always ate at was closing down, and he wanted to let him know (he says). I feel like I've been lied to (info withheld) since during last week, my WH mentioned this restaurant closing down a few times, he talked about how on Thursday, they all had their "last supper" He talked ALL ABOUT IT, except he failed to mention that HE CALLED this non-friend of our M to join him. I'm so angry........he AGREED to nothing outside of work. Since the guy isn't at work right now and hasn't been for the last 6 mos or so, I'm not impressed.
When I asked my WH about why, he said he didn't see it causing US any harm. Geesh, I guess US means HIM still.......he SO KNEW how I felt about this.
Any advice??? I know it could be a lot worst, but lying is lying is lying is lying and it sure as shit IS NOT a way to restore trust.
Thanks so much for your insight everyone, it's reassuring to me to know that I'm not being unreasonable or "trying" to punish. I know that I've been doing my work in this "R". I put this "R" in quotes, because I sincerely feel, that I have been carrying most of the load here. This is total BS (bullshit, not betrayed spouse!-LOL)
Anyways, my WH did write me a very sincere apology, but more importantly (as like most BS's, I'm sure.... I'm getting really sick of POOR behaviour with a freakin apology on what seems to be a weekly basis with us) I need CHANGE. I will not tolerate a liar, and yes, that is how I see this person, whom I picked as a spouse......it's totally embarrasing and repulses me most of the time. I never did, nor do I now want to have a liar as my life partner. NO thank you very much!
I called him at work today, you see, he's been taking a break (hasn't really spoken to me since the apology)when I read his apology and asked him "why"...I got the typical, "I don't know, I didn't really think it was hurting us"... Sure, I haven't said much to him either, because I can't just automatically let things go at the drop of a "I'm so sorry", especially since our "R" has been full of these "sorrys" for 1+ year now. I wish he understood how hard it is to even LOOK again in the face someone who's lied to your face over and over and OVER again. It takes me awhile to come around.
Anyways, I told him that all he's been doing here in R (for the most part) is "taking a break". First was the A's in themselves, the A's were taking a break from working on our M, I then listed off about 15 other things, which included the Dday#2 coming (his lying for 10.5 weeks) the P/A and E/U behaviours, the anger/defensiveness to my justified hurt and anger etc etc etc. Trust me, the list goes on...... I said that "if you feel you need a break, then whether now or after Xmas, please.....just pack your stuff and GO....go take your break...give ME a break, I would be a much happier person if I didn't have you here lying to me, and affecting my feelings like this". "I don't deserve this from anyone, let alone my spouse".
I said, that if I EVER find out he's lied to me again, especially about something A related, that's IT, I'm through. BIG GIANT DEALBREAKER. I would rather not waste more of my life with a liar.
His response you wonder??
E/U or what???? I will stand true to myself on this decision, and I do hope that his lying (to make himself feel better!!) stops. Most have been withholding info type of lies, but still, a lie is a lie is a lie!
Me (BS) 34
Him (WH) 32
1 son - 4 yrs old
Dday#2 Nov 1/06-when he finally admitted the other 75% of the A's info
Status: Well, I'M working on R, most of the time, feeling alone in doing so.
Dealing with a P/A and E/U spouse SUCKS.
So a typical day in our house is he gets up for work,gets ready,makes noise ,turns the beacon on over my head,because he cant see any other way then kisses me goodbye forcibly?
Comes home after work we sometimes get a hello if we are so lucky.Depending on the mood of the day,which is usually bad.Then he checks the mail,opens a beer,goes to the bedroom,turns on the computer and thats where he is until bed.Oh,dinner,usually in there as well.Interrupting him isnt tolerated,even if its stupid surfing.Bedtime,tv on,no sex anymore thats too much or hes out of it from drinking too much,pass out or roll over and wake up to do it again.
I am realizing that no amount of trying is going to fix the mess my marriage has turned into.
I stopped reading on page 7 of this thread to post.
I sat down with him about a month ago to 'try' to have a serious discussion with him. How very naive of me.
He immediately shows hostility when I try to address our problems. Literally, the look on his face goes sour if I even mention the words 'lets talk about us'.
He will say that in his mind there is not problem.
I told him that if we couldnt actually get together and do things as a couple, Im through. I gave him a month. The month's up.
Bills go unpaid, yet he has time to devote each Sunday to his golf. If I bitch about the money he spends there, amazingly one of his golf partners pays. uh huh.
My cousin once said, girl, you can do bad all by yourself. Hey, I pay most of the bills, pick kids up and drop kids off at school, college, and work. Buy groceries, put em away, cook em and clean the mess after.
Yard work is his, but he simply tells the kids to do it. He. does. nothing. in this household except sleep on the couch, and shower.
He doesnt eat my cooking. He'd rather eat elsewhere, like fast food.
I am digressing but needed to get this out really.
As far as EU goes..Wayy back, before his A, I was reallly sick after having our DD two months early. My BP went to really dangerous levels. I begged him to stay with me. He said he had to eat lunch with his grandmother. I had to stay in the hospital for a week, and each morning he seemed irritated that Id ask him to please come see me. So for me, I know that the EU pattern was well established in his personality.
Looks like Im leaving the end of January when I'll have all the money to do it. I dont want his stupid house, just my kids, and whats left of me.
As far as friends of the marriage. I agree with that too. I can fully understand why this guy would bother you. I too am in the same boat. Two of H friends were present when H met the OW. They let it continue without telling their own wives let a lone me for almost 2 years! My H still doesn't understand why I have a hard time being around them. They did not egg him on, they used to tell my H what a dumbass he was but they still never told. They both have been our friends for years. I am friends with both of their wives. One couple are our neighbors and our sons are best friends, the other couple was trying to adopt another baby and I set them up with a birth mother. Yes, while the friend was allowing my H A to not be told, I was helping him with a new baby! Gee- thanks alot! Talk about shitty!
I know just how you feel. Their lack of response is the most frustrating thing ever.
Good for you for setting boundries and letting him know that a lie is a deal breaker. If they have no consequences they will just keep going, and going and lying and lying!
I wish you the best. Did you by chance read that article that I posted to another SI member. It is very good. Check it out when you get time.
We are going back to MC in a couple weeks and we will be discussing the PA/EU behaviors. I WANT CHANGE!!
That was me you posted the article link for, and it was very interesting. It brought some insight into my own actions, too, as well as my H's.
It's funny, he always says that the physical and emotional are very connected for him, even told that to OW1, who was hoping that meant that he loved her (he never responded in kind when she spoke the words). Maybe he really thinks that is the case, but I see him as being being disconnected from his emotions, and there are so many things that hit home in this article, it is scary...
I see myself in it too. I am the little girl who is the care giver and then disappointed when I'm not appreciated!
I am trying to do some of the suggestions about how to (and not to )respond to him. This is all just very frustrating.
My H identifies with some of it but doesn't agree that most of it applies to him.
I think we are on an uphill battle!
Time will tell, I guess. Either things will change, or I will decide that I am tired of going uphill!
The boy learns that the joy of being a man in a relationship is to escape the womans needs and subsequent demands.
Alot of this behavior can go back to how the man has grown up in his family relationship.
I know just about nothing about my Hs life before I met him.I know he was living on his own at about the age of fifteen.Big red flag then but what does a person know when they are only a teen?
I do not know how he grew up.Things I do know are that at one point he and his siblings lived with his(paternal) grandmother.His dad and his mom(grandma) had a falling out on how to raise the kids.His father drinks still to this day.Thats about it.