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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 3
lostcause111
♂ Member
Member # 19109
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Have not posted here before but just had to on the subject. Our MC also female which in the end does not matter is to gentle IMHO on my wife. She does not make her own her crap. Alwyas here and now. We have never really resolved the A. My wife owns nothing.

I do not like MC and oubt my wife will go to another.


Posts: 934 | Registered: Apr 2008
TwiceTorn
♂ Member
Member # 13895
Default  Posted: 2:55 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The problem with MC (both male and female) is that they aren't givin the full information about the infidelity, they get the glassed over minimum version of it from our WW's. All they have are excuses one after the next passing blame on us. I think many of us get sucked into the MC is going to fix this broken person, make them whole, and we will live a happy ever after life. No amount of IC or MC is gunna make our WW look at it from a healthy perspective, admit where they strayed, why they strayed. Otherwise, its just a quick patch up job, like throwing dirt on an earthquake fault and expecting it to go away. It doesn't address the key question. It was our WW's desicion to have the A, to let it get to the point it did. In my XWW's case, she has a sexual addicition. Like a gambler, she puts it all on the line to get the attention and the rush of finding a new relationship. Soon after the sexual hook up, that attention is not as intense anymore, and that relationship crumbles. So she rinses, lathers, and repeats the cycle.

Until she helps herself, fully realizes her own actions, and get to the root of the reason she feels she needs to have flings like this. Its pointless to continue in a M like that.


You've got to trust your instinct
And let go of regret
You've got to bet on yourself now star
'Cause that's your best bet~311 All mixed up


Posts: 3597 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Minnesota
sinkingship
♂ Member
Member # 18787
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lonerider:

That is the major irony of a WW having an A.

Finding out that after all your investment and emotional commitment to your wife, that she is less emotionally engaged in the marriage than you.

What a horrible joke to play on someone.

You marry someone and are not fully emotionally committed to them.

That I think sums up my former WW.

Why the hell did she bother to marry me, if she wasn't fully "emotionally engaged."

I mean what a sick trick to play on someone.

Stand up before two families, take vows, and somewhere in the back of your mind your fingers are crossed.

[This message edited by sinkingship at 3:52 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)]


Posts: 54 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: wash, d.c.
Ron7127
♂ Member
Member # 10145
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My first wife cheated, as well and finally agreed to go to MC. As others have described, the MC would not even explore the A. It was like a big pink elepahnt in the room which we could not discuss. How ridiculous. My XWW decided to never bring it up until 7 years later , after our divorce and her sobering up. She then owned it and apologized, adding, however , that her "emotional needs were not being met."(tough to do with a wife that is out at bars 4 nights a week, leaving me to take care of the kids on my own. Whose needs were not being met?)

Posts: 2273 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Minnesota
shyguy
♂ Member
Member # 18281
Default  Posted: 3:56 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Twice torn. you are very wise.


Love stinks yeah yeah(J. Geils)

Posts: 5866 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: tulsa
hurts
♂ Member
Member # 9444
Default  Posted: 4:00 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And yet we still try to keep the M and work with the situation. I can so hear whats being said.

Our MC pussyfooted around the whole A issue and then one W had said "sorry" then it was my problem to deal with it. she had "done all that could be done." Asswipe did not have a clue and if he saw any daylight at all it was during surgery to replace the oxygen tube.


Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?"
Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
--- Charles M. Schulz
SO if I check my pulse, and it is not there, do I get the day off?

Posts: 8381 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: At Home
TwiceTorn
♂ Member
Member # 13895
Default  Posted: 4:51 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry just isn't enough, its simple to say and brush off. But its not even close to a real apology. Here is what an proper agology is:

1. Live Up To Your Responsibility: Don’t justify, rationalize or project blame onto someone or something else. Remember, we all have control over how we act. Acknowledge that you’re at fault, caused pain, and take the blame that belongs, rightfully, to you.

2. Own Your Error: Fully accept that you were wrong and that you realize the un-necessary aggravation, pain, and hurt you brought about. Showing this kind of understanding offers the other person confidence that you are not merely offering an obligatory apology but are in fact aware of your offensive actions and their detrimental effects.

3. Be Explicit: Experts recommend avoiding simply apologizing for your behavior. Be specific about which actions you are most concerned about and the impact (you feel) they had. This allows the other party to feel comfortable about you assessing and examining the situation and offering them the confidence that you will try to curb it, or get professional assistance to deal with it.

4. The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth: Be honest with yourself and the person you’ve hurt about EXACTLY what you’ve done wrong. Examine and discuss the root of the problem, as well as, potential alternatives and solutions. Show the other party that you’ve considered the gravity of your actions and WHY it triggered such a negative response. This in-depth understanding offers confidence about your sincere desire to get to the root of the situation and move forward without ever looking back or repeating your actions

5. Let Your Guard Down: Be prepared to have the other individual express their disappointment, frustration, even anger. According to experts, refrain from getting offended or defensive. Remember, YOU were the initial instigator. The other person’s feelings are valid and legitimate, and they have a right to be angry with you. Offer them that right and make it a priority to make your apology heartfelt.

6. Avoid Conditional Apologies: Refrain from “qualifying” your apology based on only certain things you felt where hurtful. Place yourself in the other person’s shoes and try to understand how what you did or said affected them. Experts also suggest avoiding words and phrases such as but, if, and, but.

7. If At First You Don’t Succeed: Apologize more than once if you have to say experts, especially if the offense is “serious” enough and the person needs a little extra convincing. Wait for the right time and choose your words wisely. Consider also gestures that will exhibit your sincerity.

UNTIL this happens, your held in a holding pattern, Limbo.


You've got to trust your instinct
And let go of regret
You've got to bet on yourself now star
'Cause that's your best bet~311 All mixed up


Posts: 3597 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Minnesota
thyme2go
♂ Member
Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 5:10 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think many of us get sucked into the MC is going to fix this broken person, make them whole, and we will live a happy ever after life. No amount of IC or MC is gunna make our WW look at it from a healthy perspective, admit where they strayed, why they strayed. Otherwise, its just a quick patch up job, like throwing dirt on an earthquake fault and expecting it to go away. It doesn't address the key question. It was our WW's desicion to have the A, to let it get to the point it did.

Keep in mind MC/IC does not always solve the problem/issue. The net result is equal to what the couple/individual put in.


There are many cases (mine for example) where there is too much damage to even try and repair the M. My STBX refused to talk, go to MC/IC, take an STD test or show remorse.

Do not feel bad if you have to get a D. One has to heal either in the M or move on and do it alone. Staying in limbo-land will slay you.

-t2g


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9145 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
TwiceTorn
♂ Member
Member # 13895
Default  Posted: 6:25 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do not feel bad if you have to get a D. One has to heal either in the M or move on and do it alone. Staying in limbo-land will slay you.

Very true and straight to the point.

Limbo land is not a place to live, because you have the constant scratches of past hurt, being reopened again.


You've got to trust your instinct
And let go of regret
You've got to bet on yourself now star
'Cause that's your best bet~311 All mixed up


Posts: 3597 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Minnesota
dontdream
♂ Member
Member # 14303
Default  Posted: 8:56 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

trust me on that one guys.

I feel like I was in limbo for a year.

now divorcing with my feelings still in the game of R - she decided she was done - it is hard.

tonight I blew up at her since I had to take DD cat to the vet and paid the bill etc. Not a big deal, am glad to do it, but felt like I was being taken advantage of since STBXW had not gone to work today but then was able to leave and go to a date with her new guy of 2 weeks.

I lost it and cursed yelled threatened to hunt his ass done etc.

ugh - so hard being alone.


--
BH: almost 36 (me)
ExW: 35
DD: 15y
D-Day 2/10/2007
LTA: 15 months with former boss

Divorced on 9/2/08
Happy with myself - accepting of being single.
working on finding a new beginning.


Posts: 406 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Seattle
TwiceTorn
♂ Member
Member # 13895
Default  Posted: 9:46 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It would be one thing being alone, but in Limbo land you are not. Its like a constant reminder of what ya just went through. The lies, the person who caused it. Being alone after this mean no contact with the person who did this. Living with that just leaves us revictomized again. At any turn, those scars are reopened, living with that...


You've got to trust your instinct
And let go of regret
You've got to bet on yourself now star
'Cause that's your best bet~311 All mixed up


Posts: 3597 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Minnesota
popolop
♂ Member
Member # 19068
Default  Posted: 1:05 AM, April 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi y'all. New to this thread and glad its here. As you can see from my sig, the A is pretty fresh and has progressed to D request in no time. Thankfully, we have no kids, no house, barely any assets so the D will be fairly simple. Right now, I hate her fucking guts, hope she dies drowning in her own waste, and that the D moves forward swiftly. I plan on filing tomorrow.

Anyways, here is the story. I guess I should start with pre-relationship history that should have set off all five alarms that she would be a "poor-risk" partner. She has been in a relationship with at least one male since she was 12 years old, had sex first when she was 14, and has cheated on every one of her boyfriends (including me within the first year of being together). So what do I do, why I marry her of course! Hey, it can't happen again, right?

So after being together five years, we get hitched. Almost three years later, d-day. We had been living apart for the last nine months because she got a job on one coast and I had to go to school on the other. This is probably where you are thinking: wow, long-distance relationship with a serial cheater. Nothing could possibly go wrong. Well, to my surprise, something did go wrong. My gut began feeling something was up, so when she was out here on break, I decided to take a looksie on one of her e-mail accounts. Jackpot. Of course, when I first confronted her with it, she denied all of it. Not until she found out that I read through her e-mails did she fess up. Naturally, fessing up had far more to do with all the things I did wrong and how we were disconnected (no shit. we live 3000 fucking miles away). I ended up giving in and talking to her more. She didn't want to stop seeing that fucking scumbag because they were "emotional equals" (That must be a sight to behold, I tell you. A regular clash of the fucking teenage titans). Being the douchie doormat that I am, I agreed to give her space to think about things instead of telling her its OM or me. She goes back home and

Hold on.

wait for it.....

she decides she wants to D. Couldn't see that coming, eh? It seems that she has never been happy in our relationship and is no longer "in love with me." I try to tell her that she is basically a cookie-cutter foghead but I might as well have been talking to my desk. She has expressed no guilt, remorse, or regret and as far as I know thinks she is totally justified.

We are both in IC. She found herself a real winner. After the first meeting, counselor thought she knew enough about our relationship to declare us "incompatible," and also managed to possible reveal the identity of one of her other patients. A real class act we've got her. Needless to say, any hopes I had of her pulling her head out of her ass because of IC are nil.

Now its time to survey the wreckage and try to fashion a new life from the mess. Some days are good, some days are not. Recently, they have been pretty good as I am more and more convinced that this may be one of the best things that has happened to me. I will be free of this clusterfuck and can hopefully get myself together enough to have a healthy relationship for once. Until then, I forswear those of the double X chromosome.

In solidarity.

[This message edited by popolop at 1:15 AM, April 24th (Thursday)]


Me: 28
NPDSTBXWW: 28
D-Day: 4/1/08 (April Fool's! hahaha...*cough*)
WW asked for divorce: 4/11/08

Posts: 54 | Registered: Apr 2008
hurts
♂ Member
Member # 9444
Default  Posted: 1:39 AM, April 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey pop, welcome. Well at least you still have some of your humor. Man it sounds like this is just sucking for you. Sorry that you are finding yourself here, but welcome and keep us up on whats happening with you. It is still all kind of raw and that roller coaster has customized a seat for you. If it starts getting crazy, post here and I can tell you it does help, just to get it out.

Again welcome.


Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?"
Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
--- Charles M. Schulz
SO if I check my pulse, and it is not there, do I get the day off?

Posts: 8381 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: At Home
JoePike
♂ Member
Member # 13207
Default  Posted: 5:11 AM, April 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

now divorcing with my feelings still in the game of R - she decided she was done - it is hard.

I was there too DD. It does get better with time. Still not there completely, but it does get better.

Had to give my .2c on MC's. We found one immediately after d-day, and while she was ok with being the moderator and enabling both of us to speak, she was never able to take us further.

As a last ditch attempt about 6 months post d-day I found another, again female, MC and she was fantastic. Called us on BS everytime, both of us, and helped constructively. Sadly at that point it was too late, but don't give up home guys. There are good MC's out there.

It seems that she has never been happy in our relationship and is no longer "in love with me."

Pop: This is standard WS speak. I cannot remember how many times I've read that here. It translates to "I'm still a foggy asshat".


"Do or do not. There is no Try" - Yoda.

"The term “mistake” infers a level of ignorance, innocence and naivety. And a lack of intent and planning." - Craig Harper


Posts: 3952 | Registered: Jan 2007
popolop
♂ Member
Member # 19068
Default  Posted: 12:00 PM, April 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As a testament to the amusement park ride that is my emotional life, I present to you an unsent letter I wrote to WW less than 12 hours from my previous post:

There are still so many things I don’t understand. I don’t understand how we are incompatible. I can understand that you have detached yourself from me and thrown all of your emotional efforts into another person. I can understand that the aftermath of such detachment would leave little room for me in your heart. I can understand that you feel as if I do not provide enough excitement or conflict to keep you satisfied. I can understand that we have had problems in our pre-marital relationship with communicating and constant pushing and pulling of each other. What I can’t understand is how all of this leads to divorce. I can understand you being lonely out there. You are in a position away from family and close friends and need to establish your professional life at the same time. I know that is extremely hard and I am so proud of you for trying to make the most of it. I also understand that you have deep-seated issues that you need to work on in order to better understand yourself and how you relate to people. But, again, I do not understand how this means divorce and that we are incompatible.
I feel as if you have given up on us in a very short period of time and with little communication as to your unhappiness. I know that I am just as guilty of failing to communicate my feelings and my own unhappiness in my situation. But my unhappiness was not caused by you, nor will it be solved by being divorced from you. I feel as if the same is true for your situation. I do not believe I am responsible for how you reacted to your loneliness. I can understand how you would feel as if you were abandoned and that I did not care. But I firmly believe that running to another man will not solve any of your long-term problems. No other person except you is going to fulfill your needs, wants or desires. No other person is going to make you whole. You are already whole. You are already a loveable, caring person. There is nothing I or anyone else can do to give that to you or take it away. I think you just need to find it.
I can understand how taking a break from all relationships will give you a chance to find yourself within this fog of confusion. But I think that it would be a shame to toss aside our relationship, a relationship filled with love and caring for one another, a relationship in which we have a great number of things in common, and a relationship in which we are able to talk, laugh, and enjoy it.
Sometimes, I think I must be insane to want to stay married to you. On those days, I cannot stand the thought of more pain, suspicion, and worry that staying with you would necessarily entail. On those days, I feel as if it would be impossible to every trust you again. There are days that I hurt so much that I hate you and wish you had never been in my life.
Then there are days like today in which my heart still has a place for you. These are the days in which I feel my head is the most clear. I can see the machinations that led us to where we are. I can see the denial, anger, resentment, fear, loss, and slow drift that blew us off course. I can see the humanity in us both, our flaws and imperfections. Yet, at the same time, I see hope in our strengths and in my love. I see us. I believe that with a clear mind, you might, too.

It is taking all of my strength not to send this to her. I take it this would be a part of the "bargaining" phase. Or would this just be denial...I don't know. Whatever it is, its fucked up. I really do mean these things, but there are only so many times I can slam my head against a wall before I realize it hurts and that I should stop.


Me: 28
NPDSTBXWW: 28
D-Day: 4/1/08 (April Fool's! hahaha...*cough*)
WW asked for divorce: 4/11/08

Posts: 54 | Registered: Apr 2008
Ron7127
♂ Member
Member # 10145
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, April 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Pop, good post iwth the humor and all. But, based on the info re her background, you need to start researchin personality disorders if you want to understand her. She has been like this a long time, long before you were on the scene. These disorders are intractable, virtually untreatable. Believe me, in the long run, you will have a more peaceful life with her gone.
You also need to figure out what it is about you that was willing to overlook allthe warnings> I did the same thing. Married a woman who I knew had a histroy similar to your wife's. Nice thing about my problem, co-dependence or whatever the term, is that it is fixable with work. PD's are a lost cause and you are better off out.
Good plan on avoiding the XX chromosome folks until you develop better radar and figure out why you tolerated her crap.

Posts: 2273 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Minnesota
popolop
♂ Member
Member # 19068
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, April 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm pretty sure I know what my deal is. I've been dealing with FOO issues the last two years and have been successfully on ADs for the same period. I have a history of associating pain with love, and have a history of hopelessness, worthlessness, and all the -lessnesses associated with depression. Co-dependency is definitely a problem, as I tend to take the blame without question and internalize all the shit while giving out all the best. I can tell you, I have and continue to look deep inside myself to figure out all the ticks and tocks that make me fuck up like this with the opposite sex.

As far as the PDs of WW, I am heavily leaning towards NPD. She may not be the biggest offender out there as far as NPD is concerned, but it was scary reading the descriptions and checking so many of the boxes.


Me: 28
NPDSTBXWW: 28
D-Day: 4/1/08 (April Fool's! hahaha...*cough*)
WW asked for divorce: 4/11/08

Posts: 54 | Registered: Apr 2008
mscacs
♂ Member
Member # 12185
Default  Posted: 2:45 PM, April 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have been in R for 21 months now with WW and it is the hardest thing I have ever done. I also wonder what it takes to survive this kind of hurt and pain. My WW has never been very remorseful, only sorry she got caught. I know I only have a small portion of the story and I will never get the rest of it. I tried recently asking her to tell me the whole story and her reaction was to swing at me and scream she wanted a divorce because I still don’t believe I have been told the whole story after all this time.

Sometimes I want to throw in the towel, I don’t because of my kids. They are not aware of what happened, only that every now and then mom and dad get into a big screaming match. We have been getting along fairly well lately, but that is because I have stopped asking about the A and have stopped getting angry or at least hiding it. As soon as I bring it up she gets angry and makes it unpleasant for me to talk about it. Nice huh?

She screws me over and then demands that I not keep bringing “it” up or the M won’t work. Like many of you, if I did not have kids or they were grown up I would have left the day I found out. We have our ups and downs, but it mostly depends on me and how I handle my emotions. I have resigned to the fact that I have to be the one to eat shit and move on because she will never accept what she did ruined our M. She always tries to blame shift when she does “feel” like talking about it. Never just says that she F__d up and is sorry, only once or twice when she was really drunk.

I just keep moving forward, but I am tormented by this and it never ends. She has no clue what I have gone through because of this. In her mind it is over, she got away with the biggest marital crime of all and still has her family intact.

I warned her many times though, even the slightest hint that anything like this is even close to happening again and I won’t even explain why I left.

But, for now I am still M and trying to live with this shit….


BS: Me (48); WS: Wife (44)
Married 14 years; D-Day 7/28/06
3 kids: 12, 10, 8
In spite of my resolutions I often fall, weak of soul, under the cross of temptations and failure. BUT there is less shame in falling than in failing to rise.

Posts: 174 | Registered: Sep 2006 | From: Massachusettes
Lonerider
♂ Member
Member # 9205
Default  Posted: 2:45 PM, April 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

popolop,

Welcome to the thread. It's painful, but this may be for the best, you can't fix a broken person, they have to want to fix themselves.


BS me 43 years old
WS her 45 years old
married 14 years, together 20
2 kids
D-day 7/15/05

Posts: 4225 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: western NY
TwiceTorn
♂ Member
Member # 13895
Default  Posted: 7:03 PM, April 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Popolop, welcome to SI, and the Betrayed mens thread. Your still so raw into it, and your since of humor has stayed intact. Your WW is showing the typical traits, and attitude that is textbook of an unremorseful WS. Nothing you can say or do is going to snap her outta it. Its like trying to get regret or emotion from a street hooker. Im guessing if you dug back in her past she would tell ya it was always something about the other person in the relationship. Blame is something they are good at, they have polished this most of their lives. They will go chasing whatever rainbow that pops into focus. They will say some of the most outlandish things to place blame on you.

Heres an example from my XW:

She crashed and totalled her car back in Jan of 07. She calls me after the accedent. I asked what happened, she went off in a tirade about how I didn't ask her if she was alright, I only cared what happened. Well ya called me, so you must be ok, and she was. Then she went off that I didn't pay the insurance and she had to do it on the way home from work, while driving... It was all my fault, and she totally placed blame squarely on my shoulders. So after DDay I did some digging, found out she was talking to OM in Chicago, most likely having phone sex when the accident happened. XW stuck to the calling insurance story even though that call wasn't made till 1/2 hour after the accident. Total denial, even to this day she will stick with this story. They will make this the truth in their minds.

mscacs

It real hard, like I said before the first time just about ruined me. Lost my job, couldn't function, lost a alot of weight. The whole time my WW wanting me to just get over it. It wasn't till her mom died about a year after the first Dday did I feel that connection with her again. Part of me wanted to be her rock, and help her through this hard time. Part of that process, I decided she most have learned her lession of cheating wasn't a good thing. I stopped bring it up, I felt if I kept up the changes the MC wanted me to do she would have no reason to cheat again. My XW was also very abusive when she didn't get her way, or want to talk about something. She was very skilled at making up lies. Why she would come home late, or questioning about it. Many of these lies would include she already told me before what she was doing and I didn't listen. Even though it never happened. I hated having to fight with her, because she would pull no boundries on ways to hurt me with abuse physical and emotional. If she got into one of her moods, I would hide out avoiding anything to promote a fight. Nothing I could do or say would change her attitude. Some of the stupidest things would set her off, and it was ALWAYS my fault. Heaven forbid if I called her on her spending habits, or asked who called on the phone, and she would go in another room.

Pretty soon ya find out your just a pawn in their spiral. Because they really feel that they are always right, and can do whatever they want. They don't want to put alot of effort in the M because that in their mind you are already conquered, your their possession, to control. Thats the mindset they have...


You've got to trust your instinct
And let go of regret
You've got to bet on yourself now star
'Cause that's your best bet~311 All mixed up


Posts: 3597 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Minnesota
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