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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 3
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 8:50 PM, January 13th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Psst, t2g:

With that, I know that there is nothing I could have done to prevent her from doing what she did, and is doing.

There is nothing you could have done to prevent her from doing what she did, and is doing.

Seriously, I'm a smart guy. Trust me on this one.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:30 AM, January 14th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can say in my case, the reason for being with her was definitely low self-esteem on my part.

I had been suffering from my 1st W's infidelity, 15y M, 2 boys. Got served out of the blue w/ D papers while she was out of town w the boys visiting relatives back east.
On Christmas.

Didn't have SI then, or things might've turned out differently. I think we could've R'd, but I was too angry about it all, but she did make a couple overtures in that direction.
She ended up M to the OM.

She'd been shacking up w him, ohh, about 4 months, when I met current wife.
She is 17 years younger, and as you might suspect, I was completely blown away by the attention.
My need to feel needed, or valuable - coupled with the bright light of her wit and charm (not to mention the incredible sex)...
blinded me.
I ignored the red flags, and of course, since I'm such a capable, smart guy too - I figured I could deal with it, and fix it.

Guess I aint the sharpest knife in the drawer...

I guess I'm what they call a "feelings guy", and this event has changed me in a fundamental way...
But without God, SI, and a few close friends - I'd probably been on the nightly news or a milk carton by now.

I want to do what I can to help, I know I get kindof out there & crazy sometimes,
but you guys have truly been a lifeline to me!
It helps me to do a little to "pay back"...

To that end, I'm challenging the rest of you guys. Surely the Men at SI can pony-up at least a hundred bucks?

Bet on SI's men to women %.
10 bucks a number.
Haven't heard from the great and terrible MHoz yet, so I'm posting this to pull in at least a couple more bones to make it...

So far:
jj-10%
Finally -13%
LoLo -15%
Nvis Man -16%
Defiance-17%
Moo - 18%
Ser - 19%
TT -20%

We got 80 bucks bet.
C'mon guys...


Posts: 5980 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
A Million Pieces
♂ Member
Member # 21910
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, January 14th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Checking in...

and venting...

The past two weeks have been great and horrible. The OM she had been having an P/EA affair with (We love each other, and are talking about what we have to do to be with each other, blah, blah, blah) threw her under the bus big time after I found out on New Years that she had broken NC and called the OM's W. Within 15 minutes, he was calling her a stalker bitch, even though he had set up a fake (used the name Amy Watson) Facebook and g-mail account. She felt horrible and deleted her gmail account to show me that she was serious about R. She also deleted from her phone the gchat app that she was using to talk to OM.

On Jan 2, we had MC and she agreed to write NC letters to an ex-OM, the OM above and another guy she was having an EA with on Facebook. She sent them Sun Jan 4.

This past Fri, she asks me to meet her at a local bar for happy hour because she wants to have fun and talk with me. Actually, it was a ruse for her to meet with some guy who wanted her to review his resume and some other stuff he had prepared for a job interview. OK, fine. I meet her there, she's talking with him, then I figure ok, go away now. Nope, she invites him to join us...I'm pissed.

We had the baby sitter drop our kids off at the pizza shop accross the street, and have dinner. When we get home, I learn that she had opened a new gmail account (different user name). I confront her with it and she tells me she opened it to "I only opened it to use with SI. That's it. No one knows about it, not even my best friend." We argue about that and the guy from earlier for about 2 hours, then settle down.

She's falling asleep, and I couldn't so decide to get on facebook on our laptop. I open the browser history, and there is the facebook page for the EA guy, who she sent the NC letter to the week before. WTF!

I wake her up and have her open her facebook acct. I go to his page, and she's been talking with him since Dec 30! She sat in MC and said, yep no contact. Now (Fri night) she's telling me, "Well, I was just talking with him, that's all" WTF does NC mean? She sat there with the MC and told HER she wasn't going to have contact, when W knew full well she was going to continue.

After an hour of "discussion" she says she finally understands that she is having an EA and that if she wants to work on M, she has to commit herself 100% to the M/R. She sends NC email and deletes/bans his facebook page. Good.

Sat, she tells me she is really sorry and wants to work on this. Sat night wants to go out with a couple of her friends for a little bit (I won't be long) - OK. Leaves around 10. I get an email at midnight that she ran into the wife of friends of ours. Great - she's normal and won't let W go trolling (I think).

1:30 I get a call from her telling me she's leaving in a bit. 2:30 I get text telling me she's playing beer pong. WTF? I go to bed.

4am I get a call from above friends H, asking if I know where our wives are. No, I don't. I start calling/texting. W won't answer calls but texts. Tells me they are on their way home. She shows up at 5am (our town is small -you can be across it in 15 min). They met a couple of college kids and went to their house to play beer pong (yes, I believe that - no sex,etc). I went apoplectic.

Sunday, she apologizes and tells me she is completely committed to working on us. It's the first time I've seen that from her, so I'm thinking this is good.

Yesterday, I see from the computer history that she was trying to reinstall the gchat app on her phone. I have her open her new gmail account. Well. It's not just for SI. It's got ebay. She's got two friends on there. Oh, and then in the trash is an email from EA man.

Now, she tells me that she didn't read it, but put it straight in the trash (maybe true, it was marked unread). She also told me that she was really fighting hard not to contact him. I believe this; she was on SI yesterday looking for support (see Wayward side - OM on the brain). All well and good, but how did he get that email? "I forgot I gave it to him sometime last week on Facebook, but I never emailed him" This morning she tells me that, yes, she did email him last week (me: yeah, maybe).

I asked her why she didn't tell me he emailed her; I had asked to be told in any of the OMs made contact. She said she didn't want to deal with him, she just wanted it to go away. Oh, yeah, yesterday was the 19th anniversary of when we first met. Yeah me!

She still maintains that she is trying hard to maintain NC, but the pull is really strong. She equates the withdrawl like crack. She needs the external affirmation bad - thats what's led to the As.

Right now, I don't know what to believe/do. I'm tired of constantly being told she's doing something, but in reality she's not. That said, the past few days is the first time I'm starting to see remorse and that she "gets it" - she understands what she has to do to make R work (in her words, and what she's posted here on SI).

I know this is two steps forward/one step back, but I'm really getting tired of this. Some days I don't know if its worth the effort to keep trying, but for some reason I do (Strangely I still love her - damn those love feelings).

OK, thanks for letting me get that off my chest...my IC had emergency surgery so I can't talk to him...


Me: BS (37)
Her: WW (37)
Married 12 yrs; together 19
D-Day 11/22/2008
D-Day #2 (admitted previous PA) 12/5/2008
D-Day #3: 1/9/2009 (EA)
D-Day #4: 6/22/2009 (EA - she stopped before PA)
Status: Trying to R; Coping with WW being Bipolar

Posts: 80 | Registered: Dec 2008
toonice
♂ Member
Member # 19862
Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, January 14th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Was it low self esteem that we put up with issues or was it the issues that beat down the self esteem. Which came first? When you are married you feel, as a man, like you have to stick it out and do the best you can. When someone else stops trying you just cannot carry it all yourself. You get tired and worn down. I wonder if it was more the fact that I got to the point where I was emotionally and physically exhausted, not just carrying around low self esteem. I know I am capable man. I've had enough success in life to be OK with myself.

I carried quite a bit of low self esteem with me into this M. I was emotionally abused by my older brother, pretty much my entire childhood.

Then I was emotionally abused by my first serious GF (age 19-22). Then there's my FWW.

I have so much to be proud of. But when I have these major setbacks in life (like a cheating wife) - I wonder what the fuck is wrong with me that this stuff keeps happening.

I'm sure that being a BH has made my self esteem problems far worse; and my low self esteem was probably why I settled for her in the first place; knowing what I knew about her when we started.


Stronger than reason, stronger than lies, the only truth I know, is the look in your eyes.
BH(42) FWW(41; 8+ OM/OW, 5 year LTA)
M: 16yrs, 2 kids DS16, DD13. d-day 6/17/2008 (after 9 months of MC+gaslighting).

Posts: 4898 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: CA
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 10:12 AM, January 14th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Man, Million Pieces, your wife sounds like a complete idiot...much like my wife. (For the record, it wasn't until *after* D-day that my wife started signing up for singles sites "to take the quizzes" and doing stupid/thoughtless/self-destructive shit like you've just described. It's like...okay, so you've been in an A for x months or years and hidden it, and now that I know and have set some boundaries with consequences, suddenly you're wide open about doing shit that you hid before and expecting me to buy it? Post D-day is a level of stupidity and out-of-control that's almost impossible to fathom. It's like they're intentionally trying to burn things down.)

To this day, I have no explanation for the massive amount of post D-day stupidity exhibited by my wife (and yours, it sounds like). It's almost like the shock/guilt/horror of being discovered makes them completely psychotic.

I'd advise you to start dropping the hammer on your wife, because my experience is that the stupidity will continue until you leveraged enough consequences that she's 100% clear that the next fuck up means divorce. That might mean no more nights out with friends, no contact with any men 1 on 1, complete transparency -- essentially, setting ground rules so obvious and detailed (with the consequence that violating any of them means she moves out of the marital home) that there's no margin for misunderstanding.

I fear for you, AMP. Your wife sounds like either an utter fool, someone completely evil and malicious, or someone with serious mental health issues. My wife is bipolar, so I know where she fits in that continuum. :)

You need to start taking care of yourself first so that you're mentally and emotionally prepared to tell her to fuck off if she keeps up these behaviors.

[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 10:48 AM, January 14th (Wednesday)]


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
A Million Pieces
♂ Member
Member # 21910
Default  Posted: 12:57 PM, January 14th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your wife sounds like either an utter fool, someone completely evil and malicious, or someone with serious mental health issues. My wife is bipolar, so I know where she fits in that continuum. :)

She's not a fool, not evil, but does have issues. We'll go with door #3. In fact, she's had people ask her, and we've discuss it too, if she is bipolar. Don't know. We're waiting for her ICing to shed some light on that question.


Me: BS (37)
Her: WW (37)
Married 12 yrs; together 19
D-Day 11/22/2008
D-Day #2 (admitted previous PA) 12/5/2008
D-Day #3: 1/9/2009 (EA)
D-Day #4: 6/22/2009 (EA - she stopped before PA)
Status: Trying to R; Coping with WW being Bipolar

Posts: 80 | Registered: Dec 2008
wifehad5
♂ Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, January 14th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'll put $20 on 12%


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 35284 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
thyme2go
♂ Member
Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 2:15 PM, January 14th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A Million Pieces: One word... boundaries!

If she cannot comply with the four pillars of R then it is time for you two to separate and for her to move out. I am sorry - the type of behavior she is exhibiting (and you are allowing) is not acceptable in a M.


jjct - 27%


-t2g


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9144 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 5:19 PM, January 14th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We'll go with door #3. In fact, she's had people ask her, and we've discuss it too, if she is bipolar. Don't know. We're waiting for her ICing to shed some light on that question.

Honestly, that was my gut-level take on your story. Since she hasn't been having outrageous hallucinations that would be an obvious clue to a psychotic break, I'm thinking probably bipolar 2 (which is what my wife has).

However, I'm not a psychiatrist, and I don't even play one on television, so that's why I didn't come right out with that assertion. It's entirely possible that I'm projecting my wife's behavior and diagnosis onto yours.

I would only caution you that most therapists are very cautious about diagnosing someone as bipolar, so it could take a long time to get there -- and it's essential that your wife be 100% honest about her feelings and behaviors with her therapist. My wife essentially lied to her therapist for three years (because she didn't want to look crazy), and so was treated for unipolar depression -- and regular depression meds are absolutely the worst thing you can give a bipolar person, because they tend to launch them into increasingly outrageous manic episodes.

I wish you luck, AMP. Living with a bipolar spouse is incredibly taxing, especially if they're not med compliant...but it can also be a great relief if you've lived with an actively bipolar spouse for years without understanding that they were mentally ill. When my wife was diagnosed and I started researching bipolar disorder, suddenly entire swaths of our marriage (and her bizarre behavior/moodiness/anger) that had baffled me for years started to make sense.

I was able to finally internalize that constant screaming, the treating me like I was never giving/doing enough one day, and then the next treating me like I was the best husband in the history of the world, the financial catastrophes -- it really wasn't about me. I wasn't doing anything wrong.

But you've got to take care of yourself and your boundaries. My PM box is always open, so feel free to drop me a note if you need some support, especially if it turns out that your wife is bipolar.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:13 PM, January 14th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

jj-10%
wh5 - 12% (20 bucks! cajones on that one!)
Finally -13%
LoLo -15%
Nvis Man -16%
Defiance-17%
Moo - 18%
Ser - 19%
TT -20%
t2g - 27%

MEN. KICK. ASS.!!!!!!!!!
Total's $110 from the menz...
wh5 wins,
I'm gonna pony the 20...


Posts: 5980 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
TwiceTorn
♂ Member
Member # 13895
Default  Posted: 6:21 PM, January 14th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would only caution you that most therapists are very cautious about diagnosing someone as bipolar, so it could take a long time to get there -- and it's essential that your wife be 100% honest about her feelings and behaviors with her therapist.

This is pretty much basic for any therapist/psychologist. To even get a solid verdict on the mental problems your wife is having. I remeber going to the MC with a folder in hand showing my XWW had well over 12 phyiscal affairs in the past 12 months before DDay#2. Me saying she have a sexual addiction problem. To which the MC said well she doesn't seem to have a problem with it.

Basically the person who has the problem has to understand the mental problem themselves. If they don't want to admit it, or blamshift, they are in denial. Nothing, I mean NOTHING you can do or say is going to make someone change unless they are commited to the fact they have a problem. After all they didn't see the problems when they were having the A's.

For them to admit they have a problem would really be a huge step. The problem is they would have to really question themselves to taking such a step. It mean a whole shift in understanding everything about themselves. They would basically have to unlearn alot of the things that shaped their lives.


You've got to trust your instinct
And let go of regret
You've got to bet on yourself now star
'Cause that's your best bet~311 All mixed up


Posts: 3597 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Minnesota
thyme2go
♂ Member
Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 6:24 PM, January 14th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

jjct -- how the heck will we ever know the %???

Seems we are invisible!! lol!

No wait - I was just informed it was 27%!


-t2g


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9144 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:08 PM, January 14th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

we WILL find out, when the great and terrible comes out to pronounce.
You KNOW where this is going, right?
say..it's 10%....(kill your informant)...

the wimmenz? they in trouble. big trouble...
(they just don't know it yet...shhhhhhhh!)


Posts: 5980 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
wifehad5
♂ Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 7:14 PM, January 14th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 35284 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:17 PM, January 14th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


we are so pwning them!
put some more in the pot guys!
Mo pressure!
where the hell's tputer?

Posts: 5980 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Kuwaited
♂ Member
Member # 5491
Default  Posted: 7:25 PM, January 14th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

23.5%.



"For every trip to the vet, there's a car ride.", Satchel Pooch.

"At some point in life, everyone has gambled on a fart and lost." -- Tad...from Craig's List


Posts: 8441 | Registered: Oct 2004 | From: North Atlanta Burbs
A Million Pieces
♂ Member
Member # 21910
Default  Posted: 7:32 PM, January 14th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Twice-

RE: statement about the person understanding/admitting they have a problem.

My WW and I have talked about it and we decided to have her see her IC for now, but we have talked about her seeing a psychiatrist as well to see if she is BP. She doesn't really go "manic" but does get depressed. We are wondering if her manic phases are where she is superoutgoing (she normally is), and the spending of money. One step at a time.

Either way, I've come to the realization that I've got a long road ahead.


Me: BS (37)
Her: WW (37)
Married 12 yrs; together 19
D-Day 11/22/2008
D-Day #2 (admitted previous PA) 12/5/2008
D-Day #3: 1/9/2009 (EA)
D-Day #4: 6/22/2009 (EA - she stopped before PA)
Status: Trying to R; Coping with WW being Bipolar

Posts: 80 | Registered: Dec 2008
TwiceTorn
♂ Member
Member # 13895
Default  Posted: 8:22 PM, January 14th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A Million Pieces,

First off her behaviour is not typical of a BPD. But from what you have said here in this forum I question if she has an Alchol problem. If she was truly working towards R, she wouldn't be staying out all hours of the night playing Beerpong with college kids. I think shes playing you, and your allowing it. Don't for a second think that you or a psychiatrist is going to fix this, there is no magic cure.

Have you found out if your WW is SAB? Because she seems to have developed the coping mechanisms of it. Minimizing, compartmentalizing, substance abuse, etc.


You've got to trust your instinct
And let go of regret
You've got to bet on yourself now star
'Cause that's your best bet~311 All mixed up


Posts: 3597 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Minnesota
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 9:29 PM, January 14th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First off her behaviour is not typical of a BPD.

Really? Based on my experience with a bipolar spouse, I was thinking just the opposite.

But like I said, I'm not a psychiatrist, so who knows.

----------------

Complete topic switch...

----------------

So, even at 2+ years out, I have to admit that I'm still completely baffled by the way my wife processes being a cheater. On the local news tonight, one of the big stories was about a local police officer who was just arrested for having sex with a prostitute in the nurse's office at a local elementary school (after hours; he did off-duty night security for the school). Anyway, after his court appearance today, the cameras flashed briefly on his wife (who looks appropriately devastated -- both by the fact that she has a cheating husband and the public nature of the disclosure).

My wife was disgusted by this story, and says to me, "He'll be lucky if she doesn't kill him, and he'll deserve it. Guys who cheat on their wives are pieces of shit."

Oddly enough, I'm thinking exactly the same thing, though for very obvious reasons. But it occurred to me, if the shoe was on the other foot and I was the WS in our marriage, I'm thinking that the *last* thing I would do would be to get all hyper judgmental about how awful cheaters are and how they deserve to have their spouses kill them.

I mean, that would just be an obvious "open mouth, insert foot" level of stupid. This isn't the first time my wife has acted like this about someone cheating. Hell, she was counseling one of her good friends during her affair whose husband was cheating on her about what a dirtbag he was and how she should leave him, and then take everything he had in the divorce.

I just don't get how she can just so completely disassociate herself from her own behavior...unless it's one of things like former smokers becoming rabid anti-smokers. Any thoughts?


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
TwiceTorn
♂ Member
Member # 13895
Default  Posted: 10:28 PM, January 14th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wincing-at-light,

Is your WW truly Diagnosed with BiPolar Disorder? I guess the reason I am asking because many just assume based on their own diagnoses. Bipolar Disorder is a wide spectrum of mental illnesses. One thing that is common with BiPolar Disorder is a family history of such.

Now BP or BPD is Borderline Personality Disorder. From the Mayo Clinic:

When you have BPD, you often have an insecure sense of who you are. That is, your self-image or sense of self often rapidly changes. You may view yourself as evil or bad, and sometimes may feel as if you don't exist at all. An unstable self-image often leads to frequent changes in jobs, friendships, goals, values and gender identity.

Your relationships are usually in turmoil. You often experience a love-hate relationship with others. You may idealize someone one moment and then abruptly and dramatically shift to fury and hate over perceived slights or even minor misunderstandings. This is because people with the disorder have difficulty accepting gray areas things are either black or white. For instance, in the eyes of a person with BPD, someone is either good or evil. And that same person may seem good one day and evil the next.

The lists of mental disorders is ever increasing. There is no universal fit.


You've got to trust your instinct
And let go of regret
You've got to bet on yourself now star
'Cause that's your best bet~311 All mixed up


Posts: 3597 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Minnesota
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