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User Topic: Long Term Affairs -V I I
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 8:16 PM, November 29th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I get it. Don't blame yourself Shirley. He, as the rest of our H's, are masters of deception. You can't blame yourself for not seeing what was do deliberately hid from you. The enmeshment is the hardest part to deal with. I too didn't know where I stopped and he began. It feels like ripping flesh when the pain hits. It's so raw and brutal. But this is necessary Shirley. It hurts worse than anyone could ever imagine, but you will come through this. Let the tears come and don't apologize for them or try to resist them. They are cleaning your soul. I know it feels like it will never stop but it does. Hang in there.


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 9:46 PM, November 29th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shirley,

I so remember being where you are, and much as it sucks, believe OTC when she says you will survive this. You will.

Hang in there. The LTA tribe is beside you, holding you up.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 9:57 PM, November 29th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Re, enmeshment. It's really interesting to me that viewing he and I as part of the same whole made him more valued in my eyes, whereas it seems to have made me less valued by him.

Does anyone else have that experience?


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 10:10 PM, November 29th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shirley I sure hate to see you going through this pain!!! We all know too well what it feels like. ((((hugs)))) Hang in there. Times will get better, with or without him, that's your choice. But believe that it will get better.

I've been doing a little bit of lurking, no posting. I think I am just trying to kind of naturally move past my need for SI. SI was my IC.

IC went well this evening. She's not wanting to dig into the past. Instead she wants to make steps towards my future happiness. I have no choice but to go with her ideas, b/c she's the only IC around. Homework this week is to push and push and push the thoughts away. Try a week free of dwelling and pain. Try a week of giving love and nurturing to my H. Instead of being pissed and resentful and full of pain. Boy it's gonna be a looooong week.

Just thought I'd share in case any of you are not in IC. I'll share mine with you.

(((((Tribe)))))

FSA


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 4:00 AM, November 30th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((Shirley)))

I also remember this gut wrenching, aching and agonising pain.Its almost like a piece of you is dying, and you can feel its every painful last breath blowing through your heart.

It WILL get better Shirley.It WILL pass. Like OTC said, do whatever you have to do (cry, wail, beat the pillow) and just let it come out. BUT please take care of your self. These are times when I hurt myself just to feel another more manageable pain. So be careful ok?

Can H not take the kids for the weekend? Or better yet, can you go away for the weekend to heal and replenish yourself?

It is so much more difficult when you have the kids to sort out,and you dont want to burden them either.

Just remember, you are not alone.

FSA!!!
I was worried about you, so its nice to hear from you.
Your IC sounds abit rigid. What if you want to talk about the past, and just cant push it away?
Grrrr at FSA's IC!


BT.

Re, enmeshment. It's really interesting to me that viewing he and I as part of the same whole made him more valued in my eyes, whereas it seems to have made me less valued by him.
Does anyone else have that experience?

Me.
I thought that when we married, we would become a unit, us against the world.Thats how we both spoke about M before. And as I put him on that darn pedastal, I was so proud to be the other half of him.In fact, in my cards to him, I would refer to him as my better half. Corny.But now sounds so pathetic.

However,he didnt value me at all. I can see that now. I just have to look at the way he treats his own family, and see that they dont value each other.So once I was his wife, I was put in that category too. Maybe since he didnt love him deep down, he couldnt love me, which was part of him?KWIM?

Also, the validation or appreciation I gave him, was worthless. He didnt value my opinion at all.He acknowledged that recently. He preferred that appreciation from other people.

So whilst I was desperate for any word of appreciation from him, he could care less about what I said about him. He told me that he wants to change that now, he wants to value what I say to him about himself as a man, father and husband. Unfortunately, now, I dont have much words left.

Hey Weepy!
You are doing well on the not mentioning "He who will not be named" front. Well done!
Give BT a run for her money!!


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:32 AM, November 30th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((hurtshirley))) We’re all here for you and know exactly what you are going through. You are not far along the line (Dday Aug 07?) and while you still need to know so much and need reassurance and therapy, your WH has dealt with it. And he dealt with it a long time ago. It’s old history to him, but horribly new to you. He’s boxed it up and shoved it into the furthest corner of the smallest room in his mind. He cannot relate to what you are going through because, as far as he is concerned, it’s finished. He sees your pain and he hurts because of the pain he has caused. Your marriage was not a lie, his alternative life was. The only way he could get back to you was to throw off his guilt and say, so now you know why I’ve been like I have at times. He couldn’t live with it anymore because he knew you had a foot out of the door and he had to say something. It was kill or cure time. Does he want to stay? If so why? Get a list of questions and put them to him. I had 33 in all, my H answered most of them, but he still minimised and conveniently “couldn’t remember” a lot of things. It comes out in the end though. Took over a year for some and no doubt I’ll never know the really deep stuff. Still feel an idiot for not seeing all the signs. I even wrote to him in 2004 and said we need to reassess our relationship! Can you believe that?

If you didn’t love him on a deep level, you wouldn’t be feeling as you do, you’d be relieved and say, okay, so now we have grounds for divorce, let’s get the process underway. And “enmeshed” is a natural state after 27yrs. Your lives are interwoven, like fabric.

You are not alone. You will get through this. This is normal. Sorry, I won’t be here to read your posts as I’m off to do the friends and family bit for a week (I’ve packed a smile). Hope you don’t mind, but I’ve squeezed you all into my suitcase and you’re coming with me!! And LostH, I’ll wave as I go round the M25.
(((LTA)))


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 6:36 AM, November 30th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your IC sounds abit rigid. What if you want to talk about the past, and just cant push it away?
At this point, it's worth a try. Dwelling and wallowing in it sure hasn't gotten me anywhere. I see it kind of like OTC says. Fake it till ya make it.

Just a sec here. Gotta get ready for work.

All Have a Nice Day

FSA


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 7:19 AM, November 30th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Troop, I need your input here. I am going to send H's and my letters to both the OW and OWH. I didnt say everything I would like to say obviously, but did manage to get my msg across, hopefully with not too much anger but loads of disdain and disgust. I hope H;s letter comes across like that too.
I would sure like any input.
Bear in mind that this is not a NC letter per se, because NC has been maintained by all. This is to help me shut the doors on them.Thats all.

To All

There are some things that I need to say to all of you. And it is my promise that this will be the end of any contact between our
families.

You 2 women have been a part of my life and M intentionally. You become involved with WH knowing that he was a married man
with children.Of course you both were married and had children as well, but that didnt stop either of you.Now my children and
I are left with the devastation that your selfish actions caused.
I never asked for this, nor did I ever want any of it,yet here I have been, in the aftermath of your poor choices.

OW#1 and OW#2, you have both contributed to spreading the rot in my M, just as Wh did in yours.
I have spent the last year trying hard to understand how people can behave the way you 3 did. The shame and guilt, if I even looked at another man with indecent intentions, would have killed me.

How did you women face your husbands and your children, and yet still be able to live with yourselves?
OW1, did you never worry that K might accidently see your emails?Or that your daughter might overhear your conversations?

OW2, did you never worry that someone would send ES the dirty pictures or videos you made with WH?
I guess not.

I have also tried to understand why Wh chose you two.What made him willing to sacrifice our family? From what I gather, none of you were that bright or funny or anything. And OW1, I KNOW how you look, so you can appreciate my confusion. I have since learned that it had really nothing to do with you. You 2 could have been any hole that was willing to offer him sex and feed his ego without commitment.

I told him that I wonder why he didnt just pay prostitutes; at least they are honest about what they do, and you know the
payment upfront.These "relationships" had only to do with what was missing in him. What a honest marriage based on fidelity and integrity couldnt fill.

It wasnt about you or love or anything good and decent.It was about lies and deception and betrayal.All ugly.

I realise now too that it wasnt because you were better than me in any way.In fact it was for the exact opposite reason.You both are everything that I am not and never will be.
You are morally bankrupt, superificial empty shells.Women who obviously have such a low and pathetic view of themselves that they would degrade themselves like this.From what I gather from WH, he is not your first or last betrayal. I feel sick when I think of the other families, the other innocent people that you both have hurt, and will hurt. OWH1 and OWH2, bear in mind that if your wives havent come clean by now, and havent shown any remorse for what they have done, they WILL continue.

OWH1, you said that you knew what WH was, given the way he spoke about other women.Yet, you still chose time and time again to send your W and your child alone to his home.You chose him to entertain your W so you could study. Did you ever look at OW1's cell phone records like I told you? I wonder how she explained her sms' to Wh over the years, seeing that she claimed that he pursued her and she didnt reciprocate. And did she ever tell you about the times he visited her at your home in X or at her workplace? Somehow I doubt it.

OWH2, you say that your W made a mistake and you have forgiven her. A mistake for 2.5 years? In the backseat of her Camry ?Ok.And the jewellery and lingerie were just presents from a "friend" right?
However I hope that the next man she choses to have sex with outside her marriage, will not have a very vindicative W. Also I would keep an eye at the Travelodge XY if I were you. I believe thats her hotel of choice.As is the park in X Road and the
underground parking at Y. Also for your own sake, I would get some STD testing done, as she is not too particular about protection.

So after a year, although I still find it difficult to accept it, I do have a better understanding of what happened.But like you said OWH2, I will never fully understand because I am not like them.Thank God.

I am ready to put you people where you belong... in our past, hence this letter. OWH1, you had your say and now grant me mine.
I want you to know that even though I might not see justice served for the "crimes" that were committed against me and my
family (bear no doubt that what you 3 engaged in were crimes against all our families), I take solace in the fact that what goes around WILL come around, maybe not in this life, but most definitely in the next.

So as WH and I rebuild our marriage, and he shows me that he has changed, that he can be a committed and faithful husband and father, someone worthy of our love, I hold my head high knowing that I have the right to call myself a WIFE and MOTHER.


Goodbye to you all.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 7:39 AM, November 30th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Following is letters that H wrote to OW1 and OW2.what do you guys think?We have yet to send it.


I have done things that were not right. It showed how shallow and untrue my life was. I am a married man that got involved with you without considering the impacts and devastation that this would cause to the people that I love.

I am a lying, cheating and useless bastard. I have been like this throughout my marriage and have caused so much of damage.

I have hurt so many people with my selfish acts, my wife and my kids that I love so much. I was stupid and only thought of myself and no one else. I had wanted to sleep with you for such a long time that it defies explanation. The sad thing is that you were not even worth the effort or the time.

I am ashamed that I have ever had anything to do with you.
I had told you that I loved you and the only reason for doing this was to get you to sleep with me. I also told you that things with BS and me were so bad and I told you this get you to sleep with me. With eyes wide open, I can see that I did not love you then or ever.
I am ashamed to even think that I did what I did with someone as despicable as you.
The one thing that I find quite amazing is how you managed to lie to your husband and convince him of how innocent you are. You probably think you have got away with this and this will stay with you for the rest of your life...knowing what you are inside….low and cowardly.
Looking back as I think about the things that I said in order to sleep with you makes me realise how stupid, shallow and fake I was. All I see is shame and guilt. The affair that I had with you was such a waste of time and effort. Time wasted that I will always regret and even more so because all it did was feed a selfish ego.
You have mentioned that ‘our time will come’. To be honest, there never was an ‘our time’ and there shall never be.
I do love my wife and my kids and cannot even measure the hurt that I have caused them. It will take a life time to repair the damage I have done and I plan to do this. I love her and my kids so much; I am willing to do everything I can to keep them. When BS found out about this, I begged her to take me back. She took me back knowing what I did and what I am. She has been supportive, loving and we are working on this marriage. I have never been happier in my life and surer of how much I want her. My marriage is stronger than it ever was. I love her more than anything in this world. She has brought some honesty and respect in my life and has given me reason to better myself and be a better and stronger husband and father.
I have learnt so much from the mistakes that I have made. I have learnt about love, loyalty and commitment which are things that I never appreciated from my wife. What I felt for you was and never could have been anything real or worthwhile. It would have been based on lies and selfishness

OW2 same as above with this part instead of the italic lines:
You have mentioned that you will always love me and care about me. I can clearly see that these were lies and you used me the way I used you. I doubt you even know what love is. Remember how we wanted to spend the day together and never did. It was all talk from both of us and we both knew it would never happen. During your affair with me, you even got involved with other men. You really are a user and a whore.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 7:48 AM, November 30th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Re, enmeshment. It's really interesting to me that viewing he and I as part of the same whole made him more valued in my eyes, whereas it seems to have made me less valued by him.

With H's with emotional issues, enmeshment probably feels like smothering.

I remember our wedding. We took fire from two candles and lit one (unity candle), symbolizing two becoming one. Ya think maybe everyone but the psychologists think enmeshment is good?

But truly the level of enmeshment we lived was NOT healthy. We gave up a lot of our individuality, I guess. Although I was always independent, capable, strong, organized and stayed that way, EXCEPT around him. I hung on his every word, waited for him to deem it time to do something, gave up what I wanted to do in favor of what HE wanted to do. But that was MY insecurity speaking. Granted, he nourished it, helped it grow, but the seed was already there.

That shouldn't be how it is. I didn't realize it was unhealthy AT THE TIME. I just thought if I did what he wanted, when he wanted, how he wanted, that I'd be the perfect person for him. He used to tell me that was all that was wrong with me... that I wouldn't cooperate. Which actually meant, do it HIS way.

LH: Writing that out was a good thing. Mailing it is probably a bad thing. They won't "get" it, ok? They're probably just as morally devoid as our spouses were, ok? Leave them behind the door. YOU shut it. They don't need to know or care about how YOU feel about them. I wrote many letters to her, to her parents, his friends. Never mailed any of them, why? because I didn't WANT them in my life and H had already shut that door. I was the one keeping it open.

I have an issue and need advice too.

H's new company has a holiday party. On Christmas Eve no less. I'm going to let him make the decision of whether to go or not. I don't want him to for some obvious reasons...

#1 - We host my family on Christmas Eve for dinner. It's bad enough he waits until that day to shop and usually isn't around to help with preparations, etc. Last year I managed to get him to shop prior and he was home with us the whole Christmas Eve day and it was nice.

#2 - The "office girl" grrrr! Although he hasn't recently praised her in conversation, he still mentions her like every day.

#3 I have had experience with office parties going very bad, very quickly especially if drinking is involved. My H doesn't and it never played a part in his As, but his OW did and it sure helped grease her wheels. Roofers are notorious for boozing it up and I know NONE of these people.

H is also socially inept and sometimes does inappropriate things. So, my first thought... call "office girl" and find out what the party protocol is... does he need to bring something food-wise, is there gift exchange and with whom and how, etc.

Well, H just called. He thinks spouses are invited. I told him to check on the above about the gifts, food etc. We'll see... Maybe I really don't have to worry about this.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, November 30th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost -

The letters are incredible. I could have written yours as that is how I feel. I do believe your husbands is wonderful and hearfelt and he knows how badly he wants to be with you.

However, I think I agree with Weepy on the "no-send" advice. I think they will just roll their eyes and think WTF. They are not human as we know it. They are morally bankrupt and full of entitlement. Put them aside and have your H read his aloud to you. Read yours aloud to him but keep them out of your life. (p.s. since I am such a mess and a newbie please feel completely free to ignore my advice!)


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 8:57 AM, November 30th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost, I understand you need to do what you need to do, but I agree with weepy. I think writing them was very therapeutic. Sending them lets those OW back in. They're nothings. And what they think doesn't matter. I think (and it's just my opinion, remember--and I totally support you in WHATEVER you do) it may ultimately cause you more pain if they respond. Weepy is right...they aren't going to get it. And like I said, they don't matter anyway.

(((((((((((Lost))))))))))))

(((((((((((shirley)))))))))))

Hon, I feel your pain. Let yourself go through all of your feelings. Don't suppress any of them. But do know that you will feel this way (like you can't do it) many, many more times. It's very natural to feel overwhelmed and hopeless.

What are you doing for you to build your strength?

((((((((((((FSA))))))))))))

Good to "see" you. I've missed you.

((((((((((((unable)))))))))))

Same as above.


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, November 30th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, Lost, those are some powerful letters from both of you! The whole truth laid out in technicolor! I think both letters are very powerful and the disgust comes through loud and clear. My hope for you is that this will allow you to really put them in the past and close the door Lost. Not the A, just them. Is there any part of you that hopes this will change, ruin, destroy, deplete them in any way? If so, my suggestion is to detach yourself from that. Make this about saying what you have to say ONLY and not hoping for anything to change or happen on their end. Because I'm with Weepy on this one - they are morally devoid and most likely will never change. They will only convince themselves that your H was forced to write those words and that you're hysterical or something like that. These are not women who can take responsibility for their actions and from the sound of it their BS are neck deep in denial and refuse to see the truth even though it was right in their face before. So make this about YOU Lost if you're going to send these and not them at all. Make it about YOU being complete and YOU chosing to move on now.

BT - Re: enmeshment. Mine was a little different in that I saw my H as an extension of myself and when he didn't behave in a way that was, IMO an appropriate way to represent "us" (a.k.a. me) then I would become extremely controlling and angry. He would then go into passive/agressive reaction to it. This dynamic was so entreched that losing him felt like cutting off a part of myself. There was also all kinds of co-dependent stuff going on with his drinking too. So really the less I valued him because his P/A behavior escalated, the less he valued himself in our sitch. Seeing him as his own person and me as my own person was a loooooong road and I still find myself having to pull myself back from falliing into that thought pattern.


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
hurtbuthappy
♀ Member
Member # 14539
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, November 30th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hi LTA tribe. Haven't posted for awhile, just lurking and soaking it all in.

Finding the enmeshment topic very close to home. I relate to OTC in that I think I saw H as "us" and I expected him to behave the way I wanted. When he didn't I became angry and then he becane defensive. And so it goes round and round.

I decided after DDay that I would no longer make excuses for H behavior and work to be the person I wanted to be. He is in charge of him. But deciding this and living this are two totally seperate actions.

I still in alot of ways still want to be "us" and the image of who I think we are. Maybe control issues, maybe just me trying to go back to what I thought we had in the past and not accepting that that is not who "we" were at all.


M-25 years
2 kids

Posts: 131 | Registered: May 2007
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, November 30th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Below the quote is H's response to the email I sent last night. Since I have absolutely no faith in my judgement anymore, I am throwing his response out there for commentary. Okay Tribe, let me know what you think....

I can't do this. It is too much. All I do is cry and despair and hate everything. I knew we weren't perfect but I thought we had each other. I thought that we had built something together that at some point was only about us. At some level, I thought it was at least you and I against the world and now I know that you were against me too. I can't stand knowing what you have done. I can't bear this truth (if this is even the truth). I can't watch the kids go through any more of this. I think this is worse for them than just splitting. The pain is too great. The kids are watching tv and I am in the study crying and typing and wondering where it all went so wrong and how did I not know. I am wondering why?why?why? Why me? Why these beautiful children? Why "our youngest"? She deserved to be brought into this world out of love and all she sees is pain and crying. She tries to make it better but she can't - no one can. It is so unfair that these wonderful kids are trying to "make it better" for me. When did they accept this burden? Who are you? Who was I married to? Why did you pick me to inflict this pain on? Did you hate me that much? Know that you have destroyed a loving woman.

His response:

I need to absorb this before replying. It's not your fault and it is completely unfair to you and the girls. You are all beautiful, special. I was a monster and for that and what that has done to you I'm sorry beyond words. I am trying to learn about myself so I can work to fix that and can only hope you see enough that we could grow to a new and special place. For the first time I see the beginnings of a path to truth, honesty, and love. I only hope I haven't broken you to the point of no return for us.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
hurtbuthappy
♀ Member
Member # 14539
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, November 30th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hurt shirley - brought tears to my eyes. I think he sounds truely sorry and he is trying to find himself and repair the damage to you all.

Problem is, not losing yourself in the process. Trusting that they are going to stay on the path is very hard and something I am struggling with.

My IC keeps telling me that we can grow to the "new and special place" also. I want that so badly, but trusting that he wants it is another issue. Don't know yet how to identify "gaslighting". But it doesn't sound like your H is.

(((((((Shirley)))))))


M-25 years
2 kids

Posts: 131 | Registered: May 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, November 30th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for your responses Friends.

I know that they wouldnt "get it", nor would their H's. They might feel a slight twinge of regret, then again they wont.

This is for me.This is for what I would have said to them if they had had the guts to even listen to me. This is also for all those times I allowed people to take advantage of me, abuse me or just disregard my feelings...AND I NEVER SAID OR DID A THING.

I know they might not even read it.And knowing their intellectual limitations from H, they might prob not even understand half of what I said. But I said it. I wrote it. I meant it. I sent it. I did SOMETHING.
Years from now, I wont feel that I was castrated or made impotent, that I didnt do a thing. I will know I did this one thing that said "F you.".

****
Hey robt!
Where HAVE you been??
How are you doing?

(((Shirley)))
Hang in there. One day at a time ok?


Hbh,

Maybe control issues, maybe just me trying to go back to what I thought we had in the past and not accepting that that is not who "we" were at all
.

Its a painful and long road discovering and accepting the "new we". From what I gather from the R'ed couples like BT and OTC, its worth every step!

Ukgirl,
Hope the family/friend do is a blast.
<<<<me waving back>>>>

OTC,
Your brutal honesty and reflection on yourself and M is truely inspiring. Thank you for sharing.

Shirley,
Just read H's letter.
I thought it sounded honest.
Sorry, I dont trust my judgment much either.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 10:41 AM, November 30th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shirley, his words seem sincere. I'm curious how they landed with you. Are you even in a place where sincere or insincere would even make a difference? Can you take it in is what I'm asking. There comes a point where you have to be able to take in the words of sincerity versus throwing them all out because once a liar, always a liar. In order for any reconcilliation to happen you have to at least be able to take them in as being "possibly" the truth. There is a looooooooong road to go for trust to be re-established but you have to open a crack to let it in so that the process can begin IMO. So what says you? Are you feeling there is a "possibility" for truth in his words?


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, November 30th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think the words are sincere. I think he deeply regrets the pain he has caused me and I KNOW he regrets hurting the children. What I do not know is whether I have any place left to build something again with him. The violation of our relationship was complete: he destroyed the intimacy, he destroyed the friendship and he destroyed the respect that I had for him as a person. When we started this R process I still felt hope but now I do not. His word ring true but they do not *ring* for me.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, November 30th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A little bit of advice Shirley. Give it some time. Don't make any permanent decisions yet. Many of us can attest here that there are many stages to how we have felt. I personally went through many days feeling there was no hope. I could never recover or open myself to loving him again. After some distance from him and some time spent reclaiming your self after the devastation you may find you can open the door a crack. You may not even feel it's worth the effort today, but give it some time. The damage may well be too extensive, but until you go through some of the many stages (of which you've seen a few in the short time you've been here with us) you really won't know if you're done IMO. (((((Shirley)))) you're in some of the darkest days and my heart goes out to you.


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
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