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Topic: Long Term Affairs -V I I
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lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706 |  Posted: 11:04 AM, December 24th (Monday), 2007 |     |
I'm trying to prepare for dinner tomorrow but am struggling with memories of 'Christmas Past' so just wanted to send hugs of my family here. I'm thinking of all of you... hoping you are in a better state of mind than I am.
{{{LTA tribe}}}
Posts: 797 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada | hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197 | | Posted: 11:29 AM, December 24th (Monday), 2007 | |
My first Christmas knowing that I am a BS. My first Christmas as a member of the LTA tribe. Thank you all for your support. I know I wouldn't have made it to Christmas without you all and your sage advice.
Sending wishes of peace and serenity to all of you during this holiday season. May you find times of quiet joy. I will be looking for mine in the eyes of my three wonderful girls.
"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu
Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007 | lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706 | | Posted: 4:05 PM, December 24th (Monday), 2007 | |
Me too, HurtShirley. Not the kind of 'first' that anyone would choose to commemorate but here we are!
I'm trying to take this holiday back... not sure I'm succeeding yet but I am making small gains, I think. We are getting along. ToDo list is almost complete and I've not become a puddle of tears or a screaming banshee, yet! Tomorrow could be a different story though.
Posts: 797 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada | PlayItForward
♀ Member
Member # 13995 | | Posted: 5:39 PM, December 24th (Monday), 2007 | |
These holidays tend to bring out all of the year's emotions to a head - the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Wishing everyone here a time of true and prolonged inner peace and happiness.
PIF
 
Me-53
FWH-56
Married 29 years
D-Day - October, 2005
LTA - 5 years; discovered by teenage son...oh yeah...
R - since 1/06...we're just playing the recovery forward as far as it will go.
Posts: 297 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: The Heart of Dixie | Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492 | | Posted: 6:47 PM, December 24th (Monday), 2007 | |
Merry Christmas to everybody!!!!
((((((LTA Tribe))))))
FSA
Together we're working through an LTA
If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?
Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007 | Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515 | | Posted: 7:12 AM, December 25th (Tuesday), 2007 | |
Have a peaceful holiday everyone.
To those struggling today, take a step back. Focus on everything good thats in your life now, and things good that are yet to come. Just for today, send all bad thoughts and feelings into exile. YOU CAN DO THIS!
Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine
Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London | weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790 | | Posted: 7:31 AM, December 26th (Wednesday), 2007 | |
Merry Christmas guys, it's over!
shirley, the firsts are always the worst. I barely remember my 1st Christmas after Dday. Don't even remember what H gave me unless I think really hard. That's not like me.
H did very well by me and the kids this year, although he consulted me 25 times by phone in one day on his purchases. And that doesn't count the number of times he called the kids on my stuff.
I'm glad he didn't listen to our DD who told him to get me a journey necklace. I really was afraid he would, but there's too much of this "journey" I'd like to forget. He got me a single solitaire on a simple chain and I told him we could add to it, to symbolize our own future journey, that this was the start stone. Mr. "sentiment" said "whatever". 
The kids are happy, he's happy, I'm trying, so off we go into another year... may it be better for all of us.
Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA | hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197 | | Posted: 10:49 AM, December 26th (Wednesday), 2007 | |
I did it! I did it! I did it! I survived Xmas! If anyone had told me 4 months ago that this would be possible, I probably would have hit them with the closest hard object I could grab. But I got through it. Even enjoyed watching the kids open their presents. The house wasn't as spiffed up as usual but we are under construction so I can use that as an excuse.
The H did everything he could to make it okay for me. Fires going around the clock, cleaning up the messes, helping in the kitchen, etc. Wish I had traded the old H in for this "new and improved" model years ago. He got me all kinds of wonderful gifts that actually took thought as opposed to just money.
And, I gave him the best gift I could think of....I am allowing him to move back into the room over our garage. So, technically, he is not back in the house but after four months in a executive suite hotel it will be like nirvana for him. The gift has what I believe (and am sincerely hoping) some upside for me. I told him DO NOT move back in if there is anything else you have not told me. I DO NOT want the kids to see you back here only to have you have to move out again. He swears I know everything.
So now we wait and watch and see if he is the "new and improved model" or if the factory just shined up the old asshole and sent it back to me.  [This message edited by hurtshirley at 10:51 AM, December 26th (Wednesday)]
"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu
Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007 | OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817 | | Posted: 12:42 PM, December 26th (Wednesday), 2007 | |
Yeah Shirley!!! You made it!!! Firsts are the worst! Sounds like you were able to enjoy what you could and let go of the rest. I'd say you had a HUGE triumph! And so now he's moving back in the house. Well, that's a big step and I hope things remain as consistent as they have been for you guys. Sounds like he's really sincere in getting his shit together and doing right by you. Only time tells for any of us.
Speaking of time, here I am a couple of years down the road and have to say I've had the best Christmas ever. We had 35 here for dinner on Christmas Eve and then off to other homes on Christmas day. H and I had lots of time for one another in spite of all this and he'll be off work for the rest of the week and into next week! We've decided to just be bums. Sleep late, eat too much of the wrong things, have lots of sex, play with the puppy and watch lots of bad TV for the next six days. Something we've never done as we have both been masters of distraction with business and acomplishment. This is a FAR cry from what it was last year. I had lots of emotion running and triggering like crazy. This year - none. I feel calm, peaceful, happy and content. Four words I never thought I'd say relative to my life and state of being ever again a couple of years ago. What a difference one year can make! In spite of tremendous stress at work and now a Christmas Day announcement that H's company has been acquired by a new corporation (don't these Wall Steet execs have lives? Why a Christmas Day announcement?)H feels the same. We had a long talk the other night before Christmas about how he feels now about himself and where he's at in forgiving himself. He says he's not quite there yet but is close. He talked about his addiction to the sex and how tiring it all was but how he couldn't stop for all the various reasons we've covered over the past couple of years. We both talked about how ironic it is that such a stable and fulfilling relationship and M can come out of the ashes of so much pain and confusion for both of us. He still feels terrible about how much pain I went through from all of this but we both agreed that it was worth it to get to where we are now. Don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning his actions or saying I'm glad this happen. But it does give us something to show for all we've been through. I have to say I have never been this happy or content in my whole life. So I say this to all of you who are struggling to give you hope and to also say out loud how proud I am of both of us for making it to where we are. And I have to say that I am really proud of myself because I would be here if he was here or not. I have done my work and have earned this contentment and peace. Going through all this has made me a much stronger person. Real strength, not just a facade. Like I said, I will never be happy this happen but I will always be happy I/we are here because of it. So for all of you struggling with this please know that there are always two choices for each of us as we move through this. Anger and bitterness or forgiveness and love. We don't use that "F" word around here much because I think while we still feel the pain it's hard to forgive. But I do forgive my husband. I can say that with total honesty now. He was a broken man who lost himself in his own dysfunction. He operated in the only way he knew how even though he knew better. It's funny how you can see the patterns of dysfunction so clearly once it all hits the light of day. The holidays are a great time to see all this so clearly. His family has just had a major upset (I won't go into detail because it's not important) but I saw how his mother, staying in a completely dysfunctional and effed up situation, has covered up and compartmentalized once again. They learn this behavior from somewhere and my H learned from one of the best. His family culture is all about secretiveness and manipulation for covert agendas where innocent people getting hurt is just collateral damage. I always knew it was there but thought my H was always one of those considered collateral damage. Instead he carried on the family culture in our M. Also, being with my own family for the past couple of days and watching my ailing mother work her spells of manipulation and viciousness I see the patterns there that I carried into our M so clearly now. We have both broken STRONG family patterns in the work we've done and now we have the luxury of sitting back and watching it with eyes wide open, not kidding ourselves about what it is and not having emotional reactions to it. Instead we turn to one another with knowing smiles across the room and go home to our sanctuary we call home and finally, to the sanctuary of our marriage. This is a good place to be and I wish this for each and every one of us. Hope you all had a wonderful Christmas.
M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!
Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago | Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515 | | Posted: 2:09 PM, December 26th (Wednesday), 2007 | |
OTC,
And I have to say that I am really proud of myself because I would be here if he was here or not. I have done my work and have earned this contentment and peace
Yes you have indeed OTC!!!
And you continue to inspire and encourage us. Thank you my friend.
Instead we turn to one another with knowing smiles across the room and go home to our sanctuary we call home and finally, to the sanctuary of our marriage.
Thats what I want, for me, for H, and for the kids. Thats why I am working hard on myself. Thats why I have decided to choose the road less travelled.
Sanctuary.what a beautiful word.
Well said OTC.
Weepy, sounds like Mr Weepy did good by you and the kids.
My wish for you is that next year this time, you can add your name to the happy list as well.
Shirley, you made it too! And you guys have taken another step forward. Yay!!
So have you both set up the groundrules for the new arrangement, or are you going to play it by ear?
I am ok.
In fact, H and I both commented last night how surprising it is that I am ok. I guess we both thought that I would be an utter wreck by now. But I am coasting, not taking anything too seriously, and doing my tapping.Still in the "kinda numb" phase.And not complaining.
I hope everybody else is
doing ok too.
Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine
Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London | hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197 | | Posted: 3:04 PM, December 26th (Wednesday), 2007 | |
OTC - what a beautiful post. Thank you for sharing that with us newbies and giving us hope that maybe, just maybe, if we work as hard as you and your H we may someday have what you have now.
Yes, him coming home is a HUGE step and it scares me to death. I don't know if it the right thing but it "feels" right and that is why I went with it. OTC, technically he is not "in the house" because we have a detached garage and the loft is above that with its own bath. But I know this is just sematics - he is coming closer to our lives again.
Lost - don't have ground rules yet except he is not allowed in the Master area at all without express permission so our study, bedroom and bath is off limits. If anybody has any suggestions on ground rules please let me know.
I am hoping and praying for myself and my wonderful kids that he is not taking this step lightly.
BTW - Our MC rocks! We had a makeup session this morning and she basically told him that he had one of the best situations she has ever seen and he put it all at risk and was he ready to make the changes and do the work so that he could earn it back....I LOVE her!
I hope everyone had a peaceful holiday and gained less weight than me.
"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu
Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007 | hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197 | | Posted: 3:08 PM, December 26th (Wednesday), 2007 | |
OTC - used to do M&A on Wall Street and Xmas is their favorite time of all to announce these deals, especially if it is a hostile offer because it doesn't give anyone a chance to respond, counter, make opposing bid, etc because everyone else is doing what they SHOULD be doing which is relaxing and spending time with their families. Believe me, for these people spending time with families is waaaaaay down on the list of gratifying acts.
"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu
Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007 | numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908 | | Posted: 12:08 AM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007 | |
Wonderful Post, cowgirl.
Inspiring and beautiful to read.
BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb
Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From: | weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790 | | Posted: 6:14 AM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007 | |
Beautiful post OTC. I still find it amazing that you people can have these discussions with your FW's. That is just so out of the realm of possibility here.
Woke up kind of sad this morning. H's alarm is waking me, not him, at 5 AM. So I rolled over with the thought of waking him another way  and stopped, Just the thought of being with him and having it just be "different" for him, not great, not the best any more, not the bond we had, just made me sad. And I know he said those things during his "stupid" mixed up emotional disintegration, but he's never "taken it back" or made any correction or clarification. So, I don't know that he doesn't really feel that way. I still don't know if I'm a "what I should be doing" or "what I want to do". Hell, I'm not sure if I will ever see him that way again either.
hurt, I guess the groudrules will be how involved you feel you want him in your life. I know if it was me, I'd be moving him right into the family bosom with him that close. I'm kind of a black and white person, either we're together or we're apart. I couldn't do a part time basis like that. But you'll work it out.
Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA | forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053 | | Posted: 7:24 AM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007 | |
OTC - so happy for you and your H that you have arrived in this place. It's where all of here hope to be one day.
As for my Christmas, it was awful this year. 
I was fighting back all kinds of triggery thoughts and trying so hard not to let memories of 2 years ago invade my holiday. I was doing great until I realized that my H had absolutely nothing for me on Christmas - not a gift, no flowers, not even a card. It absolutely opened the floodgates for me and I have been crying ever since. Am I being overly sensitive? I just can't imagine him not even going out to find a card to express how happy he is that I have chosen to give us another chance. I feel like he has broken my heart all over again. He told me he never liked sending cards even though he knew I liked them. So there it is - it's still about what he wants, needs, feels. This is such a setback for me. I just can't imagine how he could have come to this day, this time of year and callously "forgotten" to do even just one gesture to let me know that I mean something to him.
We leave for vacation tomorrow and part of me wants so badly for him not to come with us. I just feel like I need to get away from him. I just can't imagine how he could not have known how much I was struggling to suppress any negative thoughts and his answer was, "That was 2 years ago, I thought you were over that by now." I am just so discouraged this morning. He has been going to IC'ing for the past few weeks and working on questions that I wrote down for him (that is a whole other post) and I hoped he was making progress. There was one more question that he was scheduled to work on when we got back from vacation. I told him not to waste his time or money. I seriously haven't been this hurt or angry in months and I just can't seem to stop crying over this. Please tell me if I am overreacting. Why does this hurt so much?
D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride
Posts: 1875 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light | weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790 | | Posted: 8:01 AM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007 | |
Oh, fnf, that's awful. I don't think you're over-reacting at all. I promise you, that if H hadn't managed a gift or card for Christmas... I wouldn't be able to contain myself. Even in OUR case knowing that he didn't spend a fortune on his LTA, money isn't the issue... it's making us feel safe, loved, honored, respected.
He told me he never liked sending cards even though he knew I liked them. So there it is - it's still about what he wants, needs, feels.
I hear you loud and clear. I've said this to H a hundred times, but because that "just isn't him", I lose, again. I even get hit with the "If you don't ask, I don't know what you want" followed quickly by "If I do it for you because you ask me to, then it doesn't mean anything." 
That was 2 years ago, I thought you were over that by now.
Easy for them to say, huh? Does your H still bring up ways you "wronged" him though? Mine does.. how I didn't "appreciate" his flower gesture (18 mo. ago) so I no longer "deserve" those gestures. How I screwed up his checkbook 22 years ago and I'm still not allowed to touch the register. My H even does that with the kids... how our DD ate something I'd bought for him, so now if any food goes "missing" in the household... it's her fault.
Do you have "taking responsibility for his own actions" on that list?
(((fnf)))
Someday I'll write MY list of MC issues that still haven't been resolved. I'm sure when we get there next Friday my H is also going to be "things were going so great, why do YOU have to mess them up?" See he bought me a wonderful Christmas gift, so that makes everything ok. [This message edited by weepy at 8:02 AM, December 27th (Thursday)]
Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA | forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053 | | Posted: 8:31 AM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007 | |
. . . it's making us feel safe, loved, honored, respected.
This is it exactly Weepy. I said this to him during one of my crying spells yesterday. Feeling safe, knowing that they finally realized what we mean to them, this is what I've been trying to get him to work on in IC'ing. The one thing I keep telling him over and over again at home and in C'ing is that I need to feel safe. I need to know that I mean something to you. To me, not even bothering to get me a card feels so passive aggressive - like he doesn't have the balls to tell me what's really on his mind, so I won't give you even the smallest token of appreciation or affection. That's why I'm now so afraid - I feel like there's something underneath this and this scares me and makes me feel very unsafe. I was so preoccupied this year wondering if he was missing the OW, thinking of her at Christmas and I just couldn't get that fear out of my head. So to have him completely ignore me just sent me down to the pits and I'm trying today to pull myself out of it.
Thank you for understanding. They just don't get us and then they make us feel as if we're crazy. I kept asking my DD yesterday, Am I overreacting???? I feel terrible that she had to be here to witness this. I worry because she has been the one who has heard so much since she is the only one who still comes home for the holidays.
Thank you again for your support. I really need you guys this morning.
D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride
Posts: 1875 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light | OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817 | | Posted: 9:12 AM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007 | |
Oh FNF, I'm so sorry this happen. You were in such a good place going into your Dday! I want to slap the shit out of your H for you!!! You're not out of line one bit! Not getting you a gift is inexcusable IMO. Not because it's about the gift, but because it's about expressing his love and your importance in his life - something I'm sure he's heard from you over and over and in many ways. I take it he hasn't been a gift giver in the past and that you've expressed to him what gift giving means to you. If you haven't expressed this clearly and he's never given gifts in the past you have to rememeber you've taught him that it's OK to do that. But I'm guessing that you have told him explicitly. If that is the case then he really needs his head ripped off by your MC! And then IMO it WAS a P/A move. Any way you cut it, this sucks and was REALLY insensitive on his part. So how can you go on this vacation with him and not let him take the good time away from you on your trip? Can you go with him but not really BE with him. Take a mental break? Or is there any way to work this out before you leave or while you're there? I really want for you to have the vacation you deserve FNF! I'm so sorry this has happen to you. You didn't deserve this at all. He's so damn lucky to even BE there, in the M still! Doesn't he see that? Oh, and the comment about that being two years ago? That was about one of the most insensitive things I've heard a FWH say here in LTA(except for Weepy's H who still holds the record for insensitivity!). Big hugs to you FNF. (((((((FNF))))))) We're here. Keep leaning on us today.
M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!
Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago | forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053 | | Posted: 10:00 AM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007 | |
OTC - This year we decided that our vacation was going to be our gift to each other. So I wasn't looking for the "gift" per se. What I was expecting was some small token of affection, something that showed he thought of me - even something as small as a card. Words expressing to me what I meant to him. Not too much to expect IMO. He is always telling me how bad he is at expressing himself and he knows I need to hear words of affection, appreciation for my still being here, words that make me believe I am loved and I am safe with him. Flowers would have been a nice gesture. A basket of my favorite bath products would have been a thoughtful gesture. But to not even give me a card to me was not merely thoughtless it was a passive aggressive act that leaves me wondering what I am to take from this.
My H has always been a gift giver. I have a drawer full of cards that he's given me over the years. That's what hurts so much. He told me that he doesn't believe in cards even though he knows I love to get them. So what should I take from that? As I said, I have a drawer full of cards I've received. I took them out and handed them to him after he said this to me and asked him to read them over and to throw away the ones that didn't really mean anything. He took them from me and threw the bunch of them into the trash. It was the worst day since d-day. I can't believe he was so cold. This is so different from the way he has been since we started R. I don't know what to make of it.
Of course, last night after an entire day of watching me cry, he went out and came home with flowers, a brief note and got on his knees and apologized. But I feel empty. It felt fake. I keep telling him that I don't want him to stay if this is not what he wants. I feel that his behavior and lack of concern for me at this time of year is somehow his way of forcing my hand. He told me that was not true but it sure feels that way.
There are times when I really feel he is like a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde and this Christmas Mr. Hyde was present and I feel so disheartened today.
I don't know what to expect from this vacation. We are going to visit my DS and DIL and taking my youngest DD with us. I want this to be a wonderful time and I just can't imagine why he would have been so heartless knowing that we are about to have share this time together with our DS and his wife.
D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride
Posts: 1875 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light | zanny
♀ Member
Member # 13183 | | Posted: 1:55 PM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007 | |
Hey All...hope your Christmas went well. Mine was fine. A little triggery at times, but that was manageable. Thanks for your lovely post OTC. It's a long journey, but it's the one we have to take. As long as some good can come from it, then we can say that the pain had some benefit.
FNF, I was really sad when I read your post. To me, it would just smack of my marriage not changing. That is what triggers me and sends me into a downward spiral is going through all of this and not having it change. Your H not recognizing how important this is and saying he thought you were over it just smacks of "business as usual" "let's move forward" "let's forget it". We do so much of that everyday, in and out, trying not to bring this to the surface except when we need to and when they use that as a "I thought you were over it", it feels like all of the energy you have used to grapple with this is taken for granted. The smallest gestures at the right moments, is what fuels us to keep plugging away and trying to manage this daily for yourself and for them. To me, sentiments at Christmastime is a given. That's the time to step up to the plate and show appreciation.
(((((hugs))))
BS-Me
WS-Him
D-day #1 LTA
False Reconciliation then
D-day #2
In reconciliation
"Just when the caterpillar thought it was over, she became a butterfly."
Posts: 573 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: The Middle of Somewhere | | Topic Posts: 1000 | |
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