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User Topic: Long Term Affairs -V I I
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, December 29th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been reading along this last week or so, but I couldn't quite make myself post.

Hopefully this is because you are so busy enjoying a relaxing holiday season. Hope all is well...


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 4:45 PM, December 29th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for the concern. I'm OK. Just moving very slowly for some reason. I can't seem to get motivated to do much.

My plan is to get myself onto a better diet/exercise program after New Year's. Hopefully, that will get me back in gear.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
hearbroken
Member
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 7:05 PM, December 29th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT,
My plan is to get myself onto a better diet/exercise program after New Year's

Ditto to that. I lost 35 pounds last year, but need to lose at least another 30. Holidays rolling around doesn't help in that department. Neither did my starting a new job..... BLAH.

I'm going to think of you when I toast to New Years and 2008. We *can* do it!

HB


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 7:22 PM, December 29th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My plan is to get myself onto a better diet/exercise program after New Year's.
I have been in an oblivious eating pattern for the past week! Come Jan. 1 I'm with you guys! I've gained about 7 lbs. in the past couple of months and have a helluva lot more than that to lose still. The infidelity diet didn't take me to my goal unfortunately!


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 9:08 PM, December 29th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey ladies!!!!

Thought I would pop in.

Holidays have been a little rough. No reason, just rough.

And this weight loss issue. Why did ya'll have to bring that one up? I've gained about 10 lbs in the last couple of months, and since all the eating during the holiday, I won't even step on a scale. But I do keep telling myself that after the New Year I'll do better. Yea right!!!!

Welcome to the newby. Sorry I can't remember your name right now, and I'm not good enough on the computer to go back and find it and then find my way back here. And sorry to say that it does sound like your H is holding way back on you. Just too big of a coincidence to believe. 2 ONS and 2 OC. That's just about as good of a story as my H tired to pull off. And his turned into a damn loooong LTA instead of the 1 bj he was telling me. But I will tell you something that I'm sure no one else on the board will agree with. Since I now know all that I know..... I wish I would have not kept digging until I found out all of it. I wish I would have just lived with the story he was telling. I think my life would be easier now if I didn't know what I know.
O.K. girls you can now get me with your 2x4's. But I do think my life would be easier if I could have stayed in my make believe world. But let me add, only if he was NC.

I've been down in the dumps lately. Snaggletooth bitch just haunts me. I just can't shake her. She just pisses me off, mostly b/c she exists. Maybe it's not so much her as it is my H, but I just find it easier to focus my hate toward her. Who knows? I tell myself not to let her affect me, but she does.

Not a whole lot to add right now. Just taking one day at a time. IC insists that 3 steps forward and 2 steps backward is making progress. Wish she could walk in my shoes for a while. I'm just so freaking tired of dealing with it all. I want to wake up from this horrible horrible nightmare.
I want to feel joy without having to fall back down again. I want to look in the mirror and see someone looking back at me that is sure of herself. I want to feel special again. I want, I want, I want.
OH well, my dad used to tell me to want in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first.

Hugs to you all

FSA


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 12:09 AM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wish I would have not kept digging until I found out all of it. I wish I would have just lived with the story he was telling. I think my life would be easier now if I didn't know what I know.
O.K. girls you can now get me with your 2x4's. But I do think my life would be easier if I could have stayed in my make believe world. But let me add, only if he was NC.

Oh, hon...as bad as it hurt...I would never wish this. I don't want to be that oblivious to what is really going on behind my back ever again. I don't want to look blissfully content when other people in the world know my truth--that he's "into" someone else...not me. I feel stupid enough for the time that went by already.

So speaking of looking stupid...

Do any of you wonder how our H's can ever respect us again for staying? I struggle alot with respecting myself for staying, and convincing myself that HE will never have respect for me as well makes it all the worse. How could he respect me? Look what he's done! And I'm still here. Who respects a doormat?

And before you jump on my OTC ( ), I KNOW what you're going to say already. I know what I'm supposed to think about that. But is it really logical?

I'm just putting voice to my thoughts. Surely you all must have come across this in your minds too.


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 6:14 AM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have caught up (finally!) on all your Christmas posts. I’m so glad that some of the tribe managed not only to get through this difficult time, but actually enjoyed it. But fnf, nope, you did not overreact. I see you are away now, but I really hope you are going to have a better week than the one you endured just gone. FWH didn’t buy me anything either. No card or present. A couple of days into the holiday, he said he couldn’t find the wedding rings that have been in his drawer. He wanted to do something “magnanimous” and looked everywhere for them. Well, mine is my Nana’s ring (1922) and we bought his in July this year. But that was before I had a meeting with OW and found out he’d proposed to her a few times. Then I decided I wasn’t going to wear a ring again anyhow. So I supposed losing them is no big deal. I do wonder if I took them in a fit of pique and hid them somewhere. Somewhere so safe that I can’t find them again!! Or worse, did I chuck them?

So robt, this self respect issue for staying – I haven’t divorced the bastard, but I have declared that I am in a state of being “unmarried” to him. IOW, I’m leaning on the doorjamb and, if I feel like it, I’m out of the door. And, what’s more, if I do go out the door, I will not be coming back.

Hi to the newbies. Don’t feel so much of one myself now. Wblessed, I’m with the others. Just doesn’t ring true somehow. But I think all of us here have the EA as well as the PA to cope with. It’s the “E” bit that makes it go on for so long and within the EA there’s that limerence that I am so resentful of. If it was just sex, it would be easier to deal with. Be prepared to get to the truth, layer by layer. Persist, persuade, cajole, shout and carry on, but don’t give up. It’s a long road. Wise words, OTC. And, if you haven’t done it already, get into MC and IC. Hugs to you, and so sorry.

LostH – I hate you? Just how is that going to help? Where is this H of yours coming from? How dare he say stuff like that, no excuse for it at all. He needs some serious psychotherapy, imho.

Our Christmas day was spent in Hurghada, Egypt with #4 son, our friends and their families. Eighteen of us (nine adults, nine kids) hired a cruiser to celebrate the day in style on the Red Sea, chilling out at the bar on Paradise beach, snorkelling and fishing and passing round the wine and beer while lying out on the sunloungers on the back of the boat. One couple stayed back at the hotel with their baby, but their boy came with us. FWH and I phoned our parents (who normally come up to us for a week) and two of our sons who were in Melbourne, Australia. #3 son was happy at some party or other back home. The weather was fabulous (mostly) and we all got on really well. No cleaning, cooking, decorating or worries. The only trigger was being in a hotel. I can’t do hotels these days and some of you would relate to that. It helped being with a big bunch of such lovely people. Last year was awful. I spent the whole Xmas/NYear period thinking about how he spent previous years phoning and texting her, popping out to “walk the dogs” and all of that crap, and I was on tenterhooks in case she did something to make her presence known now that it was over. She didn’t, but my Christmas was still unbelievably stressful, tearful and sad with all that trigger, trigger, trigger. This year? Great. I said I didn’t want presents or anything b/c I wanted it to just pass by. I’m glad he didn’t find the rings – that would have spoilt it. Just the NYEve bit to go. Why do I still want to smash up his mobile phone?


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
mumto3sat
♀ Member
Member # 14336
Default  Posted: 6:22 AM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just popping in, not in a great place right now. But the respect question is something I think about a lot too Run. I've just about come to the conclusion that if it were an honest respectful faithful husband we were talking about then yes maybe respect for us would be an issue, but in fact respect isn't actually an issue because they know that they don't deserve us (even if they never say it, deep down they know the truth) . So from that perspective I think my h probably has more respect for me now than he has in our entire relationship. The person who has a problem with respect is me, for him and towards myself.

Again I think the only answer is to work on ME. Unfortunately this seems to be totally beyond my grasp.

Dday antiversary is in 10 weeks and I am finding myself reliving every last moment of my ignorance last year. I had a 1 month old baby at this point and was really starting to realise that something was up, but couldn't work it out. Christmas was horrible last year so was New Year, I was tired, trying to hold my whole family together (although I didn't realise it) and trying to keep myself going even though I was suffering from Mastititis for the third child, I'm not a natural breast feeder by any stretch of the imagination so also suffering from the failure of my body to feed my child.

So, all in all, I feel pretty crap a year on. My H though is happy as larry, has had a wonderful christmas and the only thing wrong with his world is that I am so unhappy and that he is the cause of that. He is incredibly remorseful and so deeply distressed about what he has done, but he now has everything he wants because even with my meltdowns and misery the truth is we are closer than we have been for years and our sex life is better. How come they get such a big reward? Why are we left to pay the price of their infidelity? I just don't get it.

I wonder why I feel so overwhelmed and then I think well it might have something to do with the fact that my H was f**king some other woman for 7 years starting when I was pregnant with our first and lasting through a total of three pregnancies and births, it might have something to do with the fact that when he told me in March he told me he was leaving me (with a 5 yr old, a 3 yr old and a 14wk old baby) for her and then proceeded to take nearly five months to decide he actually wanted to stay this whole time still seeing her and f**king her!

It might have something to do with the fact that when he did finally decide to stay he carried on seeing her in secret for a couple of months which I only found out about when I was digging around his email. Only then did he stop seeing her because he "was ready to"!!!!! And on top of that he kept secrets, lied to me, told me I was not as good as her etc, until he finally came out of his fog after 8 months. and I wonder why I'm feeling overwhelmed?

Someone bash me over the head and put me out of my misery. For goodness sake. Why do we do it? (Stay I mean)

Sorry that turned into a bit of a tirade, you can tell I'm feeling a bit angry at the moment.

Happy New Year to all, lets hope it markedly better, but do you know all I can think about are all the poor souls who are currently in the dark who will find themselves here over the coming months.


Me (BS): 38
Him (WS): 38
3 children, d 6 s 4 s 1yr
D day #1 03/16/07 8 mth ea
D day #2 07/13/07 turned into 7 year long term affair, pa/ea 08/18/07 Got final info - is that it?

Posts: 284 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: UK
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 6:32 AM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

1. The diet/excercise program: count me in! BT, we are all in this together.

2.FSA, I'm with ROBT with this one Sweetie. I NEVER want to live in ignorance again! If he changes his deodrant, I want to know before the cashier does.LOL.

Sorry you are feeling blue though. You are special. If we can sense that in cyberworld, how much more would you be IRL. But I guess you have to feel it. I hope one of your IC goals for 2008 is to build you up, to make you see you for that awesome, sassy, clever, funny, loyal woman you are.

3.ROBT, H told me he never respected me during the M. I was too weak and spineless. Funny, I thought I was being supportive and understanding and selfless. BUT he is right. I was weak and spineless.
So if he didnt respect me then, who knows how he feels about me now for taking him back after everything he has done...and sometimes still does!
But you know what: I dont respect myself. And thats where I want to start off. I want to respect myself.And I think when I get there, then others would too...but then it wouldnt really rock my world if he did or didnt.KWIM?

Thats what my IC tells me anyway.

So who is joining the gym?


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 8:50 AM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And before you jump on my OTC, I KNOW what you're going to say already. I know what I'm supposed to think about that. But is it really logical?


Run, you crack me up! I'm not going to tell you how to feel or even how you should feel about this. I think it's different for all of us. I've never much time at all thinking about this aspect so it's hard for me to even answer this from my own perspective. One perspective I'd like to share with you guys though is one I've been pondering the past couple of days. I have noticed one thing very unique about our group of LTAers. We're all pretty sharp and unique individuals. In fact, all of you have impressed the hell out of me with your wisdom, compassion and abilities. I was talking to a friend of mine a couple of weeks ago who told me she finally got closure on her divorce from 20 years ago with her X. He is the father of her grown daughter and they have maintained a good relationship throughout. She has since remarried for about 15 yrs. Anyhow, she asked her X to tell her now why he left her and couldn't stay married to her. She said she never fully understood why. He told her it was because he could never understand why she loved him and always felt it was a matter of time before she woke up and left him so he left first. He said he was in awe of her and never felt like he could measure up. So, my thoughts are now circling around how many men feel this way and how many take drastic actions without ever letting those feelings come to the surface to be talked about. I know this came up in our MC but only after the therapist had laid the ground work with me individually by telling me the same words my friend's X had used - he's in awe of you. I was shocked when I first heard this because I felt so disrespected by his choice to have an A and so insignificant from the A. I just couldn't take it in. But over time things he was saying added up to this. HE was the one who felt insignificant in our M the whole time. HE was the one who didn't feel respected because I didn't ever see him as someone I should show respect to. I took him for granted and nagged and bitched a lot. I never told him what he did right or how I saw him as a man or saw his strengths. He felt he could never do anything right or good enough in my presence so he went to where he couldn't do anything wrong and anything he did was good - to the diseased hole. I'm not saying this is the same with all of us, but how many of you feel your H's were just plain gobsmacked with your abilities and who you are as a person. Even for those of you whose H's are somewhat disrespectful in their behavior. There are men who feel so insignificant just because a woman can bare children and he sees her as this natural compassionate, nurturing being that is the light of the children's eyes and he becomes a side player in all that. There are so many ways a man can see a woman and put her up on a pedastool and then feel resentment and anger because now that he has her up there, he feels he can never attain the same height. So he wears this rejection inside, never letting it see the light of day and since so many men (our men in particular) aren't your most introspective creatures, they never even try to understand or disect those feelings. They almost unconciously begin acting on them. My H still doesn't talk in absolute terms around this subject but whenever we talk about what went wrong this is dripping all over his words and explanations. I hope I'm making sense here because I really see this as the one thread we all have in common. We're all very dynamic individuals. Many of us with our own orbiting worlds around us in family, business, etc. Could it be that the thread in common with all our H's is a massive inadequacy issue with regards to how they see us as life partners? Some of you may be saying, "well yeah, duh!" but I have really been thinking about this a lot. Anyhow, would love your thoughts about this. Sorry, I've really rambled on here (so what else is new? ).


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

[
quote]. I took him for granted and nagged and bitched a lot. I never told him what he did right or how I saw him as a man or saw his strengt
hs

OTC...mmmmm.
You see with us, I did the total opposite. I put him on the pedastal, I was in awe of him, constantly trying to prove to him that I was worthy. Even when he behaved like a shmuck to me or others, I would try to cover up in some way.

And he was quite comfortable on that pedastal, you know, cos he pretty much behaved like he belonged there. Here I was an adoring, awestruck naive 19 year old who hung on his every word...why shouldnt he think otherwise?

But as I grew older and more cynical, weary, tired, then I turned into the nagging bitchwife, which was about the time he began his 2nd LTA. I started looking at other couples our age, and saw how the men interacted with their families, and a tiny germ of doubt started growing that maybe he is NOT right.
Thats when I enrolled us into MC which only resulted in him gaslighting and blameshifting me into IC, to go sort out MY problems. I used to BEG him to come home for dinner at least 3 times a week, so the kids could see him.


Ah well..that was then.
And here we are now.
He is home almost every night. The kids know what its like to have a F. I am learning what its like to have someone to share the parenting duties. I know what its like to go to bed with him and wake up with him. Our sex life is great.
There are so many things going right with us, which just makes it so much clearer how very wrong our before was.

We have our downs, and I know we both have a long way to go.
Right now, I can only deal with now, and the now is not so bad.

Mum, nice to see you.
Please join me and Fnf this week.
It sounds like you hit the anger phase. Its a tough one. You have ALOT to be angry and hurt about. Stay strong mum. We are here for you.

Ukgirl, you sound well. Good for you!


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh OTC, I too go round and round in circles and ramble away in my diary! I said to our MC that we put each other on small pedestals of equal height, but that was because we appreciated each other’s role in the M. However, I was so busy holding everything together at one point that I didn’t see him step down and climb up that massive ego ped she had erected for him.

My FWH did the f*uck up after:
- Being told from childhood that he was bright and would go far in life
- Passed 11+ and went to grammar school
- In top streams for all subjects
- Played for school and local in rugby, soccer, tennis, swimming, hockey
- Was (still is) very popular
- Got loads of “O” levels
- Got his “A” levels
- Went to Cambridge and got BA & MA in Eng Lit
- Never failed an exam or test in his life
- Met me!!!
- Married this “perfect W & dil”
- Had four healthy, happy sons & a W who loved him
- Did loads of career moves, climbing up the housing ladder by companies paying all expenses for moving
- Speaks good German & French (did Latin ….), useful on business trips
- Became a company board director
- HAD AN AFFAIR with xgf/fiancés who had held a torch for him for 25yrs

He said once that he felt he was a bit of a fake and that one day someone would see the real him and see he was not worthy of this amount of success and happiness. So he pressed the self-destruct button and then panicked because he couldn’t get out of the situation he had put himself in. Although he thought he had it “under control”, which he sort of did for four years or so.

Or was it that he felt emasculated by marrying someone who was so competent and able that he would joke about how he didn’t even change a lightbulb because I did it all? He has trouble opening the bonnet on his car, working the dvd player, the camera, the computer, putting together furniture. I do the family finances, sorting regular payments, opening or closing accounts, I do all his business admin and finance. That’s why being on my own would be no big deal – he’s the one who’d have practical problems in a divorce, not me.

Or did he do it just to notch up another success on the list? IOW, because he could?

LostH – maybe your h’s outbursts are because he’s no longer on that ped?

[This message edited by UKgirl at 10:54 AM, December 30th (Sunday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But then again, sometimes I get annoyed, think it’s all b*llocks and I really, really can’t be bothered to try and understand. If he was f*cked up, why am I the one who’s hurting?


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He felt he could never do anything right or good enough in my presence

OTC – This is it *exactly* in our case. My H’s mother was NPD and absolutely nothing he ever did in his life up until even now was good enough. He felt he didn’t deserve her love (which, BTW, she did not give). Fast forward to our relationship. He said he felt intimidated by me, that I was smarter, had a better education (despite the fact we went to the same university - WTF?), more affluent, better jobs, etc. He felt that he wasn’t good enough for me. So what did he do? Both consciously and subconsciously, he went to work to break me down, to pull me down to a level where he would be good enough. So the affairs were not just about the ego stroking and validation that he needed (a place where we was good enough) but also they were (and these are his words) about “hurting me”.
When he finally admitted this to himself *YESTERDAY* he was crying. I have to say it was a major punch in the gut to hear the one person who has vowed to protect me finally admit to himself and to me that he hurt me intentionally. What is weird is that it makes sense now. I am calmer with it because he has been honest with himself about his motivations. By continuing to confront the horrific nature of what he has done, he is beginning to feel the pain that I am in.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shirl - Maybe in some perverted, twisted way he intentionally hurt you to punish himself? Maybe he thought you didn’t have the depth of feeling to feel the hurt so he was testing your love, some kind of confirmation that he wasn’t good enough for you? If that is the case (sorry, I don’t think I’ve expressed it very well), then I truly hope he appreciates your ability to love and your strength of character. Hang in there girl. (((hugs)))


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UK - the bad news is that he finally admitted to himself, the good new is that he sees that what he had was so good (that's me ) and he wants to make himself into someone that I can love. So, as I said a few pages ago, I sit and wait to see if his actions match his words for long enough for me to believe.


That being said, I might run your theory by him just to see what he says. He is planning on going over the whole topic at his next IC appt....


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
soverysad
♀ Member
Member # 14594
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OTC -- I think you are on to something. My first H had said something similar to me - long ago - that he could never measure up to me. Therefore that made it okay for him to sniff most of my money up his nose - oiy!

I never felt like he couldn't measure up to me, though. I felt just the opposite. Same in this M. Never felt like I quite measured up. Wasn't the right kind of wife and mother. And the discovery of the LTA, the OC just compounded my own feelings of inadequacy.

Isn't this something we all do in life? Take our issues (which more than likely stem from childhood) and place them all over the relationships in our lives - instead of seeing the R for what it is, on its own merits?

For me, for H and I,(imo)our problems stem from two broken people trying to come together and make one whole. The reality is you need to come to the R as two whole people.

Hope I am making sense.

As far as the respect issue, Run ... I've puzzled and puzzled that one a bjillion times. Some days I wonder how he can respect me now that I have stayed, when he couldn't even respect me enough not to eff around.

But ... I see that there is a difference in being an ignorant doormat, blind to the world around her,

and

a whole person making a thought filled and difficult choice to stay on a road very much less traveled.

Happy New Year everyone. Struggling myself - but to paraphrase an old saying - I may be down, but I will never be out!

Blessings,
SVS



Posts: 518 | Registered: May 2007
runoverbytruck
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Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HE was the one who felt insignificant in our M the whole time. HE was the one who didn't feel respected because I didn't ever see him as someone I should show respect to. I took him for granted and nagged and bitched a lot. I never told him what he did right or how I saw him as a man or saw his strengths. He felt he could never do anything right or good enough in my presence so he went to where he couldn't do anything wrong and anything he did was good - to the diseased hole.

I think this is true in my situation as well. Although of course you know that several years before the affair, I changed all of that about me. So, that is what throws the wrench into this theory for me. If he had done this to my "prior self", I would totally understand and even have a sense of "I deserved this." But that isn't how it was at the time the affair started.

But I will tell you, various things I've read and discussions I've had lead me to think that maybe he couldn't handle the change in our dynamic. He didn't know what to do when I wasn't barking orders at him or telling him how to think/behave/feel. He didn't have the life skills for this. He never had to be accountable for himself.

In General there is an old thread by Polar that has been resurrected that talks a little bit about accountability and the "brokenness" of the players in this scenario. Here's an exerpt:

2. MANY WS'S ARE NOT EVIL OR SELFISH, BUT BROKEN OR IMMATURE PEOPLE THAT OFTEN STRUGGLE WITH LOW SELF-WORTH.
They are often been victims for much of their life, and these qualities do not reflect on their person, but the lack of help they had from the people responsible for helping them grow. They rarely give in the relationship because they have simply never been given the tools. Perhaps abuse or something tragic in their childhood stole that chance to develop a helathy self-worth- for some it may be overprotective parents who always defended their kids no matter what. Everything was someone elses fault. They didn't learn responsibility and take any ownership for what was inside, so nothing grew inside. But they still have teh NEED for something inside. So they can often not give, but tend to suck some of your energy and confidance away. Slowly, but steadily, they suck it all out of you. It's not on purpose most of the time... but they're broken and don't know another way. Someone failed them in the past and did not help them develop those tools. They also don't do it intentionally, but many WS'S don't have the tools to stand on their own. They believe that We have to fill their tanks. They see it as their right and our responsibility. Not because they're bad people, but because that's all they've seen all their lives. And most of the time we feed into it because...

2. MANY (BS'S) ARE ATTRACTED TO BROKEN PEOPLE. Because of our character and makeup, we are helpers. We like to help others, and there is this unconscious thing in us that wants to be in relationships where we give more than we get. It's the broken part of us. Unfortunately, if the person we are with is TOO unhealthy, we will be abused by that person. They will start (often unknowingly) finding how to manipulate us into doing what they want using our compassion as a weapon against us (again, often unknowingly and unconsciously, it's just a pattern they HAD to develop to deal with the irresponsible people in their life when they were young). Again, it's because something is also broken in us... we feel like we are not valuable unless we are helping someone else. We often try to control other people to stop their self-destructive behaviors. it's well intentioned, but still not our job, and not even a right of ours unless we are asked for help by that person. That controlling part of us begins to rub on the WS who is struggling for finding themselves.

And here is the part that pertains to what I am referring to in my sitch...

3. AFFAIRS OFTEN HAPPEN BECAUSE OF THIS SCREWED UP DYNAMIC. Later in life, we grow up some.. Sometimes we BS's realize it's not our job to tell our WS how to live and we stop controlling them. If they can't find the right tools on their own to deal with the new freedom, they'll look for someone else to "fill them". Because of the lessons taught earlier in life, it's someone else's job to fix them (in their minds, anyway.) Someone else always did it for them, and they have learned to rely on others for their own self-worth. They take responsibility for nothing because they have never been held responsible for anything. They often resent and get angry when confronted because they know it's wrong, but they're mad that YOU didn't fix it for them/protect them from it.

I am not responsible for the A itself, but I am responsible for not making her stand more on her own. I'm responsible for accepting responsibilities that weren't mine. I'm responsible for not making her act like an adult. I am responsible that I married a child in a grown up body, and I knew it.

I really relate to what Polar is saying--NOW. I knew all along I was broken. Defective, really. I knew I had anger issues. I knew I was abusive with my anger. I allowed all of the problems of our relationship to be blamed on me BECAUSE of those issues. Because they were BIG issues. And he let me. Sure he did! When in fact, he played a big part in those problems. A VERY big part! Because he didn't enforce his own boundaries. How could he? He didn't have any. He was never given the skills in childhood to do such things. He has spent his entire life being "directed". And when I realized the damage I was causing, and made moves to change my destructive behaviors, he was left dangling in the wind with no "direction". He didn't have the life skills to cope. That is where #3 above fits right into my story. Add to that that he surely felt even more insignificant and unworthy not being able to handle the new dynamic...and he goes to where (as OTC said) "he couldn't do anything wrong and anything he did was good - to the diseased hole."

She thought he was "perfect".

The whole thing is just sick really.

But the thing of it is...he still doesn't have the life skills to do anything differently. So where does that lead? He can't know what he doesn't know, so how does he get better?


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
hope610
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Member # 16161
Default  Posted: 2:58 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was recommended to try this forum after some Pm's with hurtshirley. So here I am horrible LTA in somewhat of a R but still not sure if I want to. WH had secret life with 4 LTAs for about 15 out of 20 years of M. Now married almost 24 years with two teenagers. Last NC was in mid June and WH has been through 4 months of rehab this summer out of the home. WH back since mid Sept and really wants me to just move on and only focus on his current positive behavior. Feels like I'll never get over it if I bring it up anymore. Says he is so sorry but it can't be undone and he promises he'll never do it again. I'm trying to find a good MC and need help on how to locate one.

Posts: 99 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: Michigan
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 3:19 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome, hope. First off...it's ok not to know what you want to do. I'm 19 months out and feel that way some days still. I read lots of advice saying not to make any big decisions for at least one year. Take that time to do what makes you feel the best--be it living together or separate.

The best advice I received in the beginning of this trek was to take care of myself. I didn't do it and I suffered GREATLY. I know you probably don't want to, but do something for yourself EVERY SINGLE DAY. You have to, hon, or you will deplete yourself of everything worthy.

I'm sorry you've found yourself here, but you are among friends here. Friends who "get it". As Cowgirl says, we're the "green beret" of infidelity. We've been the worst of it, and we're still standing. Some days just barely...but we've got each other.


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


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