LTA with woman 'friend' 06-07
EA with woman 'friend' '07
D-Day for both: 10/07
XWS moved out for OW#2: 11/07
XWS wants to possibly R: 2/08
I've learned over the years to "roll" with it. Just as long as he's not living WITH me nor bothering me, I'm fine.
I know he has seems to have a good deal of paranoia, wants me to add my personal phone numbers in the Circle, etc.
I'm not doing this!
I will only use that phone for emergencies or non-specific calls.
Because he's pulling various stunts, I guess he expects the rest of the world to be the same way.
And, how are you doing?
XWS called Saturday morning (surprise) and we spoke for 2 hours. I did most of the talking and he didn't argue...I got a lot of things off my chest.
He said he was sorry. That he knows he treated me terribly. That he feels like an asshole. That he was stupid. That old habits and ingrained patterns just didn't die, blah blah.
Good. He should feel like an asshole!!!! He should be sorry!!!
Of course a few times he'd turn around and try and say (again) that it was our 'unhealthy communication' that brought our relationship down. Whenever he made one of these ridiculous assertions I shot him right down. I told him that if it helps him sleep at night to believe that, fine, but we both know that it's bullshit and I won't accept it. I told him I understand that it must be truly horrifying to take full responsibility for what he's done and I understand wanting to justify it to feel better...but he knows what he did and he knows he doomed our relationship from the beginning by putting energy elsewhere and lying to me daily and making me feel insane when I was *right*.
He was pretty humbled. Sounded kind of depressed. He lamented having no family, no Christmas tree, no animals, no presents. I told him, 'Well, you could have.'
I told him that he may be suffering, but his suffering is loss of things, financial hardhsip, the fallout of his DUI. Mine is emotional pain. Heartbreak. Betrayal. I have no sympathy for him.
He also tried to say (again) that I made him leave. Yes, I told him he had to go AFTER he told me he was in love with her and wanted to *be with her*. What was I supposed to do, you jerk?
And too he tried to say that I never told him I wanted to work it out. I instructed him to go read the letter I wrote him in October which was an apology for the way I handled his drinking problem and a hope that it wasn't too late for us and that we could work it out.I recall he read that letter slowly over a 2 week time. It wasn't important to him.
He knew. I don't know why he tries to pull these bullshit lines.
He did not say he was sorry he left *me* so I do not think this was an attempt to get me back. He did not actually say specifically what he was sorry for, though I think he just meant the cheating. I think he's sorry that he lost stuff, I think he's sorry that I KNOW about it all...he seems pretty concerned with my opinion of him:
'Do you hate me now?'
'Well', I said, 'You really f*cked up my life'.
'I f*cked up my life, too', he said.
He wanted to tell me something about her. I made a rule--no talking about her or we can't talk. I said no, I don't want to hear it. He said, 'Are you SURE????' and then he snuck in 'I'm being really careful' before I told him I don't want to hear it. None of it.
I don't know what he meant. He made it sound as if I would want to hear what he had to say, but I don't care. So maybe he's not rushing into a full-blown thing with her...it doesn't change anything. And for all I know, she's the one who doesn't want a full-blown thing with him. Who knows. It just doesn't change the fact that he fell in love with her, that they discussed it and carried on an EA in my house for months. It doesn't change the fact that he cheated on me during our relationship, had ONS and one LTR.
I know he wasn't well much of the time. Drunk. Manic. But does it matter? Does it make me feel better to tell myself that was it? I'll probably never know. Maybe that's one of the most difficult things for me to accept--I'll just never know.
Anyway...he's coming over this week to pick up an extra vacuum that I have. It will be interesting. I can't help but wonder if he'll try to sleep with me. I am, afterall, his 'sexual ideal'. He told this to our mutual best friend. But, his 'sexual ideal' couldn't keep him in his own bedroom, so what good does it do?
I suffer from BP II - worst symptom has always been severe depreession.
My wife's father also had BP I, and she knows what she is dealing with, which is a definite plus. Her reaction upon hearing the diagnosis was horror, then determination to not have her family destroyed again by this illness, the way it was when she was little.
She is absolutely religious about her medications, doc visits, everything.
I feel like we are going to be okay, eventually.
It IS hard to separate the A behavior from the mania, sometimes the overlap is pretty indistinguishable.
FWW feels that the mania pushed her over the edge to take her "thing" with OM to an inappropriate level, and then the "high" she got from her thing with him exacerbated her mania. By the time DDay hit, she was actually hallucinating - hearing voices & seeing things that weren't really there. She avoided hospitalization by a thread, and she now knows this.
Just wanted to chime in here as the spouse of a W BP sufferer.
Honestly, every counselor & doctor who have dealt with us are quite confident that without the mania, FWW would never have strayed.
It WAS about 10000% out of character for her, that's for sure.
2 DSs, ages 7 and 5
He takes pills and sees the doctor regularly, but no pills will get and keep you stable if you are drinking like a fish. Lying to your doctor about how you are doesn't help, either...or more accurately just not being aware enough of the moods to give an honest answer. He would almost never admit when he was manic. He would admit depression (which was rare) but never mania. Are you kidding?...mania feels too goooooood.
It's hard for me. If I think his cheating was due to the mix of mania and alcoholism then what does that mean if he truly does sober up and gets stable?
What if he gets sober, gets stable and then wants me back? I'm afraid I'd go to him much to the horror of *everyone* who loves me. I think I might lose friends of my own if I ever chose to go back to him.
That is what I'm afraid of. I'm afraid he'll get well and either 1. I will have missed out on a well (aka: good) him and had to be the unfortunate person who got the worst of it and used up all her young years or 2. He'll get well and want me back and I'll have to figure out what to do.
I'm not holding out any real hope. Alcoholism alone is a long long road. Alcoholism and BP...boy oh boy. But I knew all along what I signed up for, I just didn't think he'd get as bad as he did and I certainly didn't think he'd have affairs. But really that was dumb of me...mania results in hypersexuality and poor judgment. So put a manic sexual deviant in a bar with women throwing themselves at him because he's really really attractive and charming...voila! And here I am.
I'm not assuming he will want me back, but I think he'd have to be insane (ha ha) to not consider it if he ever pulls his head out of his drunken *ss and looks around. I was 21, he was 24 when we started. We built a life together and grew up together (well, I grew up) and had plans. Now I'm 33 (almost 34) with no children, no marriage...none of the things I thought I'd have by now.
I'm so angry with him about this. We were planning a family, I just bought a house, we got engaged after 11 years of living together...2 months later he was gone.
I think part of me hopes he'll get well and want me back and life could be near perfect because I don't want to feel as if I truly wasted the last 11 years of my life on someone who cheated on me over and over and ultimately left me high and dry.
My IC said...Move On...as others here on the old bipolar thread advised me, too.
There are NO guarantees that the bipolar one is going to take their meds..."medication compliance" is the biggest issue!
Mine took his meds well/daily, but he would not stop lying.
Now, he's lying more than ever, won't see his therapist/doc, is OFF all meds.
IC said no meds = hypersexuality/Affair(s) brought about by Mania...VICIOUS CYCLE.
They do miss that *high*!
Its like going without coffee...
I'm not holding out hopes WH will choose me/our M...over that *feel good* Mania...in fact, he's proven it, again!
A good book to read:
Maybe the difference is that BPII does not experience mania. My ex has BPI and rarely experiences depression. Maybe it's just harder to conrol BPI or maybe it's that mania feels good, where depression does not and so they are much less likely to report mania. I know my ex would say he liked to 'ride it out'. He rode all right. Ha.
But yeah...I don't get not wanting to be well. Mania may feel good but it's horrible destructive and you'd *think* they'd learn this and try and stop it. He was manic when he left me the first time. And the second.
Maybe denial is just part of mania, too. 'I feel GREAT! What's wrong with YOU??'
My ex would deny mania most of the time...but when he was telling me how he'd be a millionaire in five years time...I know that grandiose kind of attitude is a clear sign.
Too bad he didn't use that hypersexuality on me. I was begging for more sex. It makes me sad/mad. He said I was his sexual ideal (told this to our best friend) and yet he took it elsewhere when I really wanted more.
I don't think I'll ever make sense of it.
FWW has wanted for her whole life to have a normal, stable life and family. She wants that still, and would do anything and everything possible to have that, and to spare our little boys the hell she lived through.
She also HATED the out-of-control way the mania made her feel.
[This message edited by Crossbow at 2:03 PM, December 18th (Tuesday)]
Mine writes words that are spelled backwards or "jumbled", & he has a very distinctive & flamboyant, untouchable Flair.
Is simply "On top of the world"!
Can anyone else here relate to this, too?
In my XWS mania could mean several different things...sometimes all at once, sometimes a few at a time, so here is the list of possibilities that I have seen:
1. Grandiose ideas about self--thinks he's 'the shit'. Example: 'You always knew I'd make money, I'll be a millionaire in 5 years.' Well, when I met him he worked in a grocery store, I never ever thought he'd make a lot of money and he hasn't.
2. Short-tempered, sarcastic more than usual) and sometimes downright mean. Example: he was manic while I was depressed once. He went on and on one day about how I was no fun, had no spark for life, was a stick in the mud with no self-esteem and how he hated all those things about me. He'd get very impatient very easily and sneer.
3. Hypersexual/risk taking. Unfortunately, there is only one time I can remember in the last 4 years where I was the lucky recipient of the hypersexuality (that was a symptom I didn't mind)...seems he was taking it elsewhere most of the time.
4. Much more 'productive'...starting projects, getting excited about projects, etc. Of course if he came down to soon they didn't get completed.
5. Less need for sleep. In the worst days before good medication he'd sleep very very little when manic which once led to hallucinations. In the last years he'd sometimes use the 'but I'm sleeping fine' excuse to prove he wasn't manic but it wasn't valid--that symptom was more rare once he was on good meds.
6. Before Medication there was psychotic mania--hearing things, seeing things, no sleep, 'crazy eyes'.
Though 'crazy eyes' is something I still see (or used to).
Lots of things have transpired and I have rally been trying to think clearly about my life, the life of my 4 children, and my M. It's a lot. I have made many changes and I feel really good. I have been running from the ineviteable for so long, I held on to hope like it was my last hope. I am beginning to loose hope that things will be any different than this cyclical roller coaster ride it has been for 13 years.
From thanksgiving up until about last week, my H has been really pissy toward me. Most of it, I had no idea why. Not nearly as bad as it had been in the past but as I et healthier, my tolerance for the bullshit is decreasing. He said that he was not emotionally or spiritually connected to me. What's new mutha fu8er? was my initial thought. As I sat back a bit, this was the expression of a highly function person yet suffering from a mood disorder. Christmas came and he found me beautiful and loved me. I'm no longer phased by this crap. It's not cute.
I don't have a problem with people having issues, it's the fact that they refuse to face and recover from them. He said that some of the days he felt bad about me he had in fact taken his Li. I jut looked at him. I thought, You need to take it every day. The meds don't work instanteously like tylenol for a headache. But I'm not his teacher and he makes his choices. I feel sorry for him sometimes, the reason is that he does not get that I have been pushed so far that I'm not sure if I can even come back, I don't even know if I want to work at it anymore. I love him but that is enough anymore.
Thanks for listening folks.
My ex started his worst ever manic cycle in the spring of 2006 - with crazy behavior like not sleeping at all, grandiose stories of his heroic band and studio work, money spending, and multiple affairs. We divorced during this last year.
I couldn't take it. I had to divorce to save myself and my kids financially and emotionally.
Now - finally - just this past week -
he has awoken again. He wonders where he's been. He says these other women were cancerous. He misses his family. He's sorry. He needs help, he says. OMG.
Has anyone seen these cycles? Do they last so long? These last 18 months were hell - pure hell - and his defense now is 'I don't remember'. OMG
The guilt is killing me to not help him. But for the first time, I have no legal responsibility to help him. But the moral dilemma is so sad......
Anyone have problems with SECRECY & huge PARANOIA w/ their bipolar WS?
I think this has been the Worst Issue(s) for me!
Damn, I feel kinda paranoid as well!
Secrecy has always been somewhat of an issue with my XWS so I don't really know how much of that is BP or how much is just not wanting to get caught for things they shouldn't do or know will upset you.
mefirst--oh yeah, been there. The *first* time my XWS left me (yes, this is the second time) he was manic. Psychotic manic. Hallucinating, the whole deal. Of course he denied this was true, it was all my fault, I prevented him from creating, his new friends understood him so much better, he was going off to star in a movie, blah blah.
It was only about 2 months after he left that he was on the phone to me saying how he had made a mistake. How sorry he was. He had 'come down' and realized he totally f*cked up.
I have a very strong feeling the same thing is happening/has happened this time. He was definitely manic in the last months (years?) before he chose to leave. Well, he was cycling for sure, mostly up, sometimes down. He admitted he was manic in the last week before he left, saying he was going to ride it out and let it help him pack and move.
Now it's been about 2 months since he left. I saw him last weekend and he has obviously come down. He's been calling. He wants to know if I miss him. I have a very strong feeling that he was manic and leaving me and being with OW seemed like a great idea, but now that he's come back down and is facing the reality of his situation...I think he has regrets.
I guess I hope he learns from this. He takes meds, has a great doc but he missed meds so many nights b/c he was passed out drunk. They certainly kept him from becoming psychotic but not from being manic, though the mania is far far less obvious when they are on meds of some kind. At least in his case that is true.
It's sad. I have BPII. I take my meds faithfully, get regular sleep, etc and am very stable. BPI is a different story, I know that. It's more challenging to treat--in part because BPI experiences mania (BPII does not) and mania is just so damn fun...up to a point. Then it's just insanity. But it's a rare day that a person with BPI will admit when they are manic. It's the nature of the beast.
Ok, I ramble. I have 12 years experience with his BPI and I have my own experience with BPII...I feel like an expert.
While in the weird state he would not answer his phone, go out late, all of the sudden become sociable and told me he did not know what he wanted and if we should be together.
In his worst episode he started drinking behind my back, gambling, going out late, working all the time at a bar (since being in college) and completely rebelling against me. He thought I was controlling him, that aliens were running the world and he was just a puppet (I just found that one out). He basically ran around the house saying he was unhappy and I was just sitting around the house doing nothing.
Oh, he also thought I was cheating on him since not knowing what is going on I accused him of it.
Well, then one weekend I went to see my dad and he brought this girl home and had sex with her "to get back at me"for me causing all this pain and controlling him. He continued going out and being strange for the next two weeks of me being in class. This was in July and we were about to move to another state for him to finish college.
After I finished class, I went to see my dad again and drove up to find an apartment. My husband never normally got angry, he has avoidance issues and was a patient man until then. I called him about coming home and he gave me lots of angry grief.
Once I flew home, he told me the next day he wanted to separate. He told me somewhere in between March and July twice he did not love me anymore (that is before anything happened with OW1)but I took it as usual. This time it was different. He said things that did not make sense like he lied to me for the past five years, I don't know who he truly is, he wants to drive around the country and be a bum and blah blah.
Well so we technically separated. He stood there to fix his car before moving to Mass. I did not give up though and devastated kept calling him from CA where I was taking classes before moving to Mass.
The whole summer he was out of whack continuing his strange I don't know etc.etc.
The affair went on for six weeks. If you count that considering they had sex three times (on the hood of a car?!) and made out five times/never dated.
The bummer is that the chick was a drug addict, who was married and dating someone else at this time and had a kid. The other bummer is that he did not like her was not attracted to her or otherwise. He says he used it to stab at me because he wanted to actually kill me in his anger and delusions.
He also thought about having sex with a guy and made out one! Three weeks before I came back (and I did because I wanted to fight for him thinking it was marriage problems)he called people on the phone constantly all day making weird noises, muttering gibberish, being drunk not making sense and getting a porn membership.
I want to say this is very out of character for a timid man that hangs out in front of the tv and knits happily away.
When I flew in he came with flowers and told me he did love me etc. So we started to reconcile without me knowing what actually happened. The affair etc. He then got into his low and would not go to school and eventually dropped out.
I found out about all this when it repeated itself past January when I was overseas and he was living with a friend. The same signs. Not speaking to me, angry, drinking, uncontrollable drinking, gambling, driving off to escape to the middle of the country in the middle of the night and well OW2. No sex just making out. One night. New years. Wanted to run away after that.
Highlight of this episode wanting to shave head and went to the mall in a bathrobe in the middle of January!
I found out when I returned in Feb. He attempted suicide in several times after me finding out. Went to the hospital for a week, to AA, dropped out of school and went into counseling. Still not diagnosed bipolar 1 though.
Moved to NY after living apart for three months. Diagnosed bipolar 1 finally. On lamictal (thank god for this med) and lithium still trying to figure it out. In IC and MC because I seem not to be able to get past the affairs!
Anyone experience anything similar?
Do you...like...live in a little tiny town? It took all of that to get him on proper meds...oh, just incredible!
I experienced just a fraction of this sort of mania with WH.
It was enough for me.
Hubby was diagnosed this spring with the cyclothymic bipolar disorder...this after getting us secretly into over $50,000 debt and having a 14 yr A.
First he was on Zoloft (concurrent mild OCD dx). Helped, but not sufficient.
Then low dose Lamictal w/the Zoloft.
Not so good -- obsessive and loss of sexual interest.
Off the Zoloft and increase Lamictal.
Bipolar and OCD better, but the longer he's on it the more irritable he gets -- towards me, personally, lots of personal attacks.
Plus continued dwindling of sexual interest.
W/O the Zoloft, although there were improvements, he's also lost a softness and open honesty. He's upstairs alone with a computer lots more, away from me. Freaking me out.
Now, the shrink wants to increase the Lamictal.
HELP!!! Aren't the side effects going to get worse????
I tried talking w/her, since he wanted to, but shut up in the office, but to no avail.
I truly cannot live w/the verbal abuse and the mistrust any longer. 14 yrs is enough.
Please give me some hope and helpful input.
The Lamictal does help. I do not know his dose but at 200 to 500 maintanance dose he should get better. The cocktail for bipolar is usually composed of 3 to 6 drugs. Lamictal being the major stabilizing agent. However, it will not prevent mania and does help somewhat with irritability.
It may be good to put him on Respirdal or Seroquel together with the Lamictal. It takes the edge off the agression and irritability. He should not be on an antidepresant for the time being until the stabilizer and irritability agent work. Antidepressants cause mania and that is the really scary part of bipolar.
As you can tell by my post my husband has had major issues and he is seeing a specialist on bipolar which is working wonderful so far.
Please also know that the doctor you want to see is a psychopharmacologist. This is very important in properly medicating your husband.
This is a separate certification etc. They specialize in meds and usually also in bipolar disorder. You may consider joining a support group and get a referral from them.