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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs V I I I
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, January 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

weepy,

I am glad to hear that you are okay....

I agree......any angst is for Zanny and the whole spector of what LTA does and can still do......

I needed to make sure I didn't transfer it to H.

Hugs


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
hurtbuthappy
♀ Member
Member # 14539
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, January 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He hates to see me sad, angry, crying, suspicious because he can't take how it makes HIM feel.

That is my H also. We don't talk about A much anymore because we are trying to "move forward". I think he WON'T talk about it because "he can't take how it makes him feel". Not the best for me though.

SoLost - your last post could have come directly from me. In fact I posted similar to this a couple days ago. I wish I knew OW was completely out of the picture, but may never know for sure. Can I live with that? Don't know yet.

I remember on Dday telling him not to stay just for the kids, and then somedays I know I only stayed because of the kids.

Weepy - Glad to see you are doing so well!

HurtS - How are you feeling?


M-25 years
2 kids

Posts: 131 | Registered: May 2007
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, January 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He also feels remorse and guilt for what he feels he has done to OW and stills needs to "check in" to see that she is ok. I don't know if he initiates contact or just her, but I know he has broke NC. I have let him get away with this.

HBH - please forgive me - I would never want to upset you but I just don't understand why you have not confronted him about this. I know you're afraid he'll go underground but by not enforcing NC, your H may be avoiding the absolute necessity of cutting off all feelings for the OW. IMHO, NC must be immediate, clean and absolute. It's kind of like going cold turkey with any addiction, smoking, alcohol, whatever. By not enforcing this, you may setting yourself up for future pain - I certainly hope I'm wrong but I am very, very concerned for you.
Please forgive me if I've overstepped my boundaries, but it only with my deepest concern for your R.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
hurtbuthappy
♀ Member
Member # 14539
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, January 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FNF - You did not upset me. I need advice and welcome any (2x4's also).

He admitted contact a couple months ago and claims nothing since then. I don't know. Have no new proof. That's my problem. How do I know?

I keep checking emails, but maybe he knows I am checking emails. Maybe I tipped my hand and they went underground. Maybe he is telling me the truth.?.

Don't know and don't know how to trust with so many lies.


M-25 years
2 kids

Posts: 131 | Registered: May 2007
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, January 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How do I know?

HBH - I wish I knew the answer to that one too. My H swears he hasn't talked to the OW either. We want and need to believe them and hopefully they wouldn't be so stupid to break this promise. This is an absolute deal breaker for me and I pray every day I am not put to this test.
I'm glad you made yourself clear on this point with your H and I pray too he is being honest with you as well.
((((HBH))))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, January 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Zanny)))
You are in my thoughts.

Weepy, jeez! You had us a tad worried.But glad you are ok, and had a good day with Mr W.

Fnf, pm for you.

(((OTC)))
Funerals, like weddings, bring out some deep emotions. Hope everything runs smoothly with you.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
heftysmurf
♂ Member
Member # 17080
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, January 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi LTA Sisters and brothers.

Time for a little contributions from me.

HBH - I sometimes wonder if trust is just gone for good? I wonder if I will ever stop checking despite anything they say. Also NC is a must. I went through two mionths of hell and had a couple of good days. In many ways I made it happen all wrong. Seeing I am also in the double betrayl group I emailed OM and copied my wife and told him off and to stop anything at all. Did that reach my spouse....I do not know.
My WS offered for us to move yesterday. That actually makes me doubt she can control herself at all. Can he? Is that really what it will take? How about if they start to consider replacement for the affair partner? Does a major move help anyone? The thoughts you consider now after the betrayl I never could have imagined happening. Chin up and keep your eyes open!

[This message edited by heftysmurf at 12:25 PM, January 10th (Thursday)]


BH-Me- 34 WW-Her- 29
D-Day- 11-04-07
M 6 years Together 12 years
2 YR DD WOW I love her!
LTA 6 YEARS - stolen time
Limbo. Praying for DD and our M.
In ridiculous pain. Amazed I can stand.

Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: New York
heftysmurf
♂ Member
Member # 17080
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, January 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you LTA tribe.

I just read the last 25 pages of the last thread. I understand a lot.

My wife has a deep seated resentment and hate against me. She love me too but formed this hate to justify the affair. She treated me like crap for our entire marriage. Sure she did nice things but man her fuse was way short for me. I escapaed and did not care to find out why. My fault on that.
I know I am a newbie just two months in but I doubt 6 years of hate and these built up justifications against me will change anytime soon. Also what about remorse. I had some initially and now nothing. Seems the same maybe a bit more nice to me. That is it. No more sorry please forgive me emails, talks by her, crying on her part,anything like that at all.
Those of you with WS not showing remorse I admire and cannot believe you can do it for any reason. I am so attached to my daughter but to know I am number two and have to prove myself to be a number one is brutal. I read about this on marriage builders and a synopsis was: ignore the affair, meet their needs, and then they will meet yours. Where do I heal in that? That seems like BS. Rewarding for the affair. I have changed and will continue for me and maybe a little for her.
How long do you wait for true remorse or am I asking for something I will never get? I feel without it I cannot continue and must separate. I have no clue how long I can wait as I feel like I am walking a painful path alone.
I was wondering as well if anybody did a moderate 180 to do a push out of the fog?


BH-Me- 34 WW-Her- 29
D-Day- 11-04-07
M 6 years Together 12 years
2 YR DD WOW I love her!
LTA 6 YEARS - stolen time
Limbo. Praying for DD and our M.
In ridiculous pain. Amazed I can stand.

Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: New York
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 3:01 PM, January 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I forget who said this (was it you NAS?)but I think it's important to understand: LTA = LT recovery. So, so true!

Yes, fnf, it was me.

I say this and truly believe it.....not only is it just plain logical... but from the very beginning of being here at SI....and most definitely from participating in our tribe here....If I have learned nothing else...with absolute awareness....
Long-Term Affairs = Long-Term Recovery.

It is so obviously a multi-layered journey of acute pain and shock and damage deep within the BS, which does not go away just because MC and IC is taking place. it takes years and years..... But as each year passes, it gets clearer and easier to maintain your goal.

SO many factors play into beginning the path of healing from this kind of psychic and emotional assault.
SO much hinges on what the WS is capable of and sincerely willing to express and demonstrate...consistently and reliably.
And BS of a LTA do not know what is reliable for a long, long time.

BT is so right on with her "rewiring of the whole house" example. I'll even extend it to add that the BS in that analogy is literally the wood and bricks..which have been severely damaged and must be attended to before even the new wiring can begin.

There is "structural" damage to the BS.

All sense of trust is gone. Rebuilding that takes more than a few candid conversations between BS and WS and good deeds. When you have been lied to, to your face..for years.. you KNOW that your WS is that good at bluffing...and that good at NOT feeling any remorse while doing it. They become masters at it, they had to, to keep it going....and undoing that habit/skill doesn't happen overnight either. The BS is painfully aware of that too.
Factor in that BS are humiliated at the thought of so much of their life being a sham....self-esteem is blown to hell...so that has to be shored up....not a quick process either.
Also, the energy spent having to put on the faces to the "outside" world during the process, to maintain some semblance of dignity and status-quo for the family, requires prioritizing just what part of this mess you realistically have stamina for, on any given day.

It is no mystery or "wonder" why the stats are so dismal for BS who choose to attempt Recon from a LTA.

That's why this group is so important to me...only here can we cheer-lead each other through it..and just as important, support those who find out they can't.

I was wondering as well if anybody did a moderate 180 to do a push out of the fog?

hefty, I did not do ANY version of the 180....I couldn't, just didn't have anything left to do it with. I was too, too hollow.
Instead, after the 2nd D-day...I drew my line in the sand...and gave him an utlimatim. "Either show me a "real" effort and face....or get out!!"
It was what he needed to hear.
But remember, that is just our story. 180 does work for so many here.

hugs to all

[This message edited by numb and scared at 3:22 PM, January 10th (Thursday)]


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 3:11 PM, January 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hefty – Please, we all say our marriages were a lie (masquerade, sham, deception, false, etc, etc), but if your wife is still with you, she is at least in a state of flux. Maybe she doesn’t know what she wants. Please, just wait it out. You are holding up the mirror to her, and she doesn’t like it. The 180 didn’t do it for me, but my H was long gone from OW before he told me, so maybe it’s different. The talk about the fog is true. She can’t even see what’s in front of her eyes. Be patient. Like a fisherman. Sometimes you have to wait all night.

Showing remorse, Hefty. I guess that would be being concerned about how YOU are and how this is affecting you and your take on the m., less about her. She had the A, she had dealt with it as it has gone along. She has, one assumes, dealt with the end. You have had this chucked on your lap and SHE has to help you sort through the sh*t. List your questions. Write them down. Get her to take them one by one and answer them. Do it chronologically and without emotive phrases, it makes it easier for her.

Weepy. Don’t allow yourself to accept blame – ever. You are not at fault for any of this. It was a case of his choice and, over the Xmas stuff, a case of “sh*t happens”. It’s minor in comparison. Titchy. Tiny. Of no consequence whatsoever in 12 months time. His A will have consequences forevermore. Enjoy your time. You deserve every day, every week, every month of it.

This makes my sh*t seem so much less. I am not so angry or upset or distressed as I was last night – and I’ve had a crap day on my scale! Big hugs to all. I couldn’t do it without you, honestly.

LostH – Start Jan? Feb 4? CG with Brit lot on? Am trying to make it!!!!

Zanny??? Are you okay? Just say you are here, honey. We’re concerned.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, January 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NAS - I think I will print out your response because every now and then I think it important for our S's to understand the depth of healing that we are trying to undergo.
Several times during our MC'ing sessions our C has asked my H, "Do you know how lucky you are that FNF wants to work to restore your M?"
Yesterday, he told me in my private session that immediately followed my H's, that he told my H, "It is a miracle" that she is still here. He seemed genuinely in awe of my ability to go through all of this.
When I read your post I realized that this is absolutely true. It is a miracle that we BS's are willing to give our M's a second chance after so much betrayal and damage, especially when some of them start backsliding like mine did at Christmas.
It was a great post, NAS, thank you for taking the time to put this into words that truly explain the excruciating process.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
heftysmurf
♂ Member
Member # 17080
Default  Posted: 4:10 PM, January 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I do not know how long I can wait. I feel foolish cry at any love song cry in front of her and she is most the time indifferent. 1st three weeks she did things for me now she makes me coffee. Big deal. I think deep down inside she hates me and blames me for it all. Not only that I destroyed her good thing. I did opposite of 180 last Thursday and Friday and basically killed it:
Emailed OM and her saying leave her the hell alone. Let her family know including her aunt for who it crushed, called a lawyer and let her know I did.

If you look at the timeline the LTA started right after our marriage. My marriage is a lie. Sad but true. Even if we survive I will never wear my original wedding ring again!

Now she sits here like move on. I am NOWHERE near ready. I need remorse like crazy. I feel without it I am setting myself up for her to have another affair and opening the window for me to. Nothing is fixed.

Side note- how many are still considering divorce?

Weepy - You are 50% responsible for marriage problems. 0% responsible for the affair. I am at least at that point. Anything different and the WS are not getting it.

[This message edited by heftysmurf at 4:17 PM, January 10th (Thursday)]


BH-Me- 34 WW-Her- 29
D-Day- 11-04-07
M 6 years Together 12 years
2 YR DD WOW I love her!
LTA 6 YEARS - stolen time
Limbo. Praying for DD and our M.
In ridiculous pain. Amazed I can stand.

Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: New York
zanny
♀ Member
Member # 13183
Default  Posted: 4:42 PM, January 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks LTA Sisters. I am here and I am standing. Your outpouring of love and support mean more than anything I could possibly put words to. I know I have frightened you. It could paralleled to a cancer survivor group who desperately want their cancer to be in remission, but then someone in the group has a resurgence. I am that someone, not you. It grieves me that I have frightened you. Please, stay strong. If there is one thing I am learning from all of this is that it's not like the first time. We are much stronger than we realize. Sometimes, you can't know that until you are tested...truly tested. I know that no matter what happens, I will be okay, more than okay. So would each and every one of you. DON"T live in FEAR.

I will be posting in the next week or so. As you can imagine, there is so much to process. Writing is probably the most difficult thing right now because I have to gather my thoughts, and well, they are just scattered.

(((((Sisters)))))

Buckets & Buckets


BS-Me
WS-Him
D-day #1 LTA
False Reconciliation then
D-day #2
In reconciliation


"Just when the caterpillar thought it was over, she became a butterfly."


Posts: 573 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: The Middle of Somewhere
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 4:57 PM, January 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Heftysmurf,

If I had been a little bit smarter or less in denial, I would have been in just about the same situation you are. My H and I also dated for six years before marrying, and his affair started in the first year of our marriage. Like your wife's, my H's A lasted for six years. Unlike you, however, the affair ended because the single OW got tired of waiting around. Although I had always had suspicions, I didn't find out the truth until my husband confessed after 21 years of marriage.

I've often thought about what would have happened had I found out about the affair all those years ago when it happened. I am absolutely sure that I would have divorced him. First, because I would not have had resources like SI and all the current books on marriage and infidelity to help me throuh it. And second, because neither my husband nor I at that point had what it takes to get through something like this.

Let me tell you that reconciling after a long-term affair will take just about everything both of you have to give. If at some point you aren't both willing to work like hell at this, you don't have a chance.

A LTA shortly after marriage to me indicates such deep problems in a WS that intensive IC for a long time is an absolute necessity. I wouldn't even try to reconcile without it. I would strongly suggest laying that down as a prerequisite to your wife when considering remaining married to her.

And I also believe you need some IC. This recovery requires reserves of strength, compassion, understanding and faith that I had no idea I possessed. I think I only made it through because I had an incredibly loving and wise counselor to help me. And a really effective and no-nonsense marriage counselor to help us.

And my husband expressed his remorse to me constantly. And he never failed to drop everything and answer my questions or hear my wailing. Had he not done that, I don't believe we would be in the good place that we are today.

Don't sit around forever waiting for what you need from her. Set a deadline for yourself and for her. Be as clear and specific about what you need as possible with her, and don't accept less. She has everything to prove, and your daughter cannot be taken away from you. Almost all states are ordering joint custody/joint time in divorces where both spouses were involved parents. Yes, it's not ideal, but neither is living with an unreformed, unremorseful cheater.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 5:36 PM, January 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HBH, well crud, if you coudl have written my post then I sure could haev written this...

I

remember on Dday telling him not to stay just for the kids, and then somedays I know I only stayed because of the kids.

I know that for many reasons I am staying for the kids. He will alwasy say he is staying for both, it's a package. fter the Affair made it clear notto make a big deal out of this, it is a package that can't be seperated. But boy I wish he woudl say he was so in love with mehat he woudl never leave regardless. But who the hell am I kidding, he fucked someone else for 4 1/2 years. What makes me think he even thinks baou tme enough to come up withthat sentence???

I'm a bit bitter today. He's trying, but the anger phase is coming all of a sudden.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, January 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It could paralleled to a cancer survivor group who desperately want their cancer to be in remission, but then someone in the group has a resurgence. I am that someone, not you. It grieves me that I have frightened you.


Zanny,

Hugs and more hugs...

I thought of the cancer analogy because we have just been through that in our family.

Bless you and your genorosity of spirit to worry about us.

I am here and I am standing.

That is the most important thing I wanted to hear....

The rest will be what it will be......

Light and heart energy coming to you.

((((( ))))))))


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
hearbroken
Member
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 6:29 PM, January 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Zanny,

I am in awe of your spirit that you are able to give us a pep talk after what you have been through. Honestly, for me, I had another SI friend who doesn't post here but who had a 2nd dday about 1 1/2 years out. With both of your stories, I can honestly say it didn't trigger me. What it did was make me hurt for you and for her and for your situations. Because us LTA survivors care about one another deeply.

I understand about having difficulty writing out your situation. Often, actually putting it in writing is hard because it processes or makes it real. It was similar for me when we had our first MC and I had to spill out all the gory details. I felt so drained.

But we are here and willing to lend an ear and give you all the support you need when you are ready. Thank you for giving us that chance.

HB


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 6:38 PM, January 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It grieves me that I have frightened you.

Oh, Zanny, you have so much grief right now please do not take this on. We are not frightened and we are here for you. I am sending you as much strength and love as I can. Please do not worry about us. Take care of yourself and lean on us.

BT - I bought one of those old houses with knob and tube wiring. Guess what? If you don't update the wiring it is dangerous; people die in preventable fires. Wish I had know I had married someone with that same wiring. He caught fire and I was bound with him in the flames. To his credit, he is working as hard as possible to re-wire himself. However, I have to wonder how much is possible. Won't there always be some old line in there that can catch fire? I know he wants to be "good" but he has a lifetime of "bad" to overcome.

Hefty - BT is right. If this has been going on the entire marriage then she needs some serious IC to address her issues. How would I know? I am 22 years into this and my H has been f'ing around on my through it all. It hasn't been constant but his childhood and his "issues" gave him the belief that he could do this, that he was entitled, that he could "put it away", that he needed to hurt me before I could hurt him, that he was getting back at his mother, etc, etc,etc and this in only after 5 months of intensive IC. Every week he uncovers another layer of himself that shocks him. If she is not in IC and is not remorseful, then you are not in R. Please look out for yourself. Set strong boundaries and hold to them.

To the Tribe - am feeling better but this one has hit me hard. I have been reading to keep up but the amount of troubles lately have been amazing. Is it the moon? The time of year (darkness, holidays passing)? I am wishing for bright days and sparkling nights for all.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 6:59 PM, January 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Zanny,

It's good to hear from you and to know that our care and concern is helping.

Please, take care of yourself. Put yourself first.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 7:28 PM, January 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((((Zanny))))))
((((((Zanny))))))

Hang in there girl, we're here for whatever we can do for you.

Praying for you, strength, peace, comfort, and clarity.

FSA


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


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