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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs V I I I
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, January 12th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((So Lost))))) This must be really hard for you. On the one hand, he did tell you. On the other, he didn't save the message. One thing to be cautious about is making him "pay a price" for telling you the truth. He did tell you and that's progress. I'm with no mor when she said:
Ofcourse your h should have saved the message but that is higher level morals. A man who can have a lta does not get it over night. Hopefully, now he realises that saving any voice message is part of transperancy which is necessary for trust to develope.

In order for transparency to occur, the BS has to be a safe place to tell the truth. Let's face it, these men are total chicken shits when it comes to potential conflict. If they fear there will be conflict their default is to go underground. It sucks bad, but we as the BS have to create a safe place for them to tell the truth without blow ups, conflict or melt downs. Some of you may disagree with me here, but I share this only because it's what has worked for me/us. Over the past year my H has opened more and more to the point where we can have real conversations without emotional upsets. He is completely forthcoming and transparent now. Still not thrilled to talk about it, but it's like a night and day difference from where he was two years ago. This took a long time though and the majority of the work was on my part to create that safe place for truth. Hope this makes sense.

So Lost, I think coming to a mutual agreement with your H about how you can handle future situations would go a long way. Allow him to be part of the decision and make it mutual in a way that works for both of you. If you can't do that, then shelf it until you get into MC and put it on the table there. I know it's early days for you and it may not be possible to control your emotions enough yet to be that safe place for truth. That's OK. I wasn't either in the first months. But if you make it a goal and work towards it great things can happen eventually. It's a slow process of building trust on both sides. Hugs to you. I know it's hard.


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, January 12th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I’ll just sit back and watch you lot on the scales!! My infidelity diet cost me my wardrobe, and most of it is still too big on me.

LostH, I’m sure which camp I fall into. My H was instantly remorseful, really frightened as to the possible consequences of his confession; he came to counselling, stayed home every night possible, answered most of my questions, showed concern for my emotional and physical welfare. He has done everything he can. BUT. His reason and method of deception was unforgivable. He actively pursued the OW, his old fiancée from school/uni. He chose to keep her discovery a secret because he wanted to find out if there was “anything of substance” (whatever that may mean) to renew. He is sorry it did not work out with her, that the relationship was destined to be as intense and destructive as it was before, he is sorry that I had to find out because she did not want to end it, he is sorry he didn’t have the courage to tell her it was over, he is sorry for the obvious pain it has caused me, he is sorry that in turn has made his guilt more profound, he is sorry that some friends and his parents see him and me and us in a different light. I hope he is sorry that he wrote a love letter to me, put loving words into cards, sent texts declaring his love and how he missed me over the years because all I see now is a man who, having embarked on his affair, wanted to allay any suspicions that I may have had.

I suppose I am in the camp of anger that he seems to be here by default, not by his own choosing. That she was always his alternative.

He never brings the subject of his A up, and I don’t blame him. He does talk about it if I need to. He just wants to move on and he says he wants me to move on with him. But this was a full on emotional and physical relationship that lasted longer than some marriages and, in a way, it was a marriage, just 25 years after the engagement.

So Lost, I don’t know how you have managed without confiding in anyone. I was straight round to FWH bf’s house, pouring it all out to them, then a close 4xM friend by phone, then close male friend who I saw through a D, then oldest friend a few weeks later when we met up, then his parents a year on, and, finally FWH’s oldest friend after OW stated she had spoken to him on FWH’s phone. Know what I wanted to do a couple of days out? That old-fashioned thing of getting a white sheet, painting “My H is an adulterous bastard” and hanging it out of the window, having of course, changed the locks, shut up the house, packed my bags and the kids and the dogs and buggered off down to a cottage by the sea.

Those snippets come out bit by bit. Expect them. They lie, minimise, lie by omission, white lie or simply don’t answer the question. They’ve done it for years and find it difficult to suddenly start telling the truth. He can see how much you are hurting and he is well aware that he is the cause of it all, that’s why he doesn’t want to tell you everything in graphic detail. And he is trying to get you to share your grief with someone. I’d go mad if I couldn’t talk to someone else about it all – even now, 18mths on. LostH is right. A NC letter from a solicitor is the start of a RO. Cost in the UK was £75. The silence after daily texting/voicemails was deafening and a little spooky.

Is this just a bad time of year?


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:06 PM, January 12th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Zanny)))
Thinking of you.

SoLost, I hope you are taking it easy for the rest of the day.
I understand that you dont want to tell just anybody about the A. However if you do tell a few close relatives (sisters?) or friends, who you know you can rely on for support, then please tell them.
Its hard enough dealing with this crap, and trying to keep the kids safe, and putting on happy faces for the whole world, makes it that much harder, IMHO. I told my family and few v close gfs. The support I receieved did help in the aftermath. HOwever they all found it hard to understand why I stayed with H, esp after dday2. I think they equated it to being abused voluntarily, or for being played knowingly. And thereafter the support dwindled.

I dont confide in anyone IRL anymore. They just dont understand.
But if you have someone who you know you can rely on, it makes a HUGE difference, even if its for emotional support.And you always have us!

Is this just a bad time of year
?
Ukgirl, I sure hope so!
H is really getting on my nerves. I am finding fault in almost everything in him (it seems), and I dont know why. I am feeling just so bloody sensitive, and the tapping is not working! And no, its not PMS either.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, January 12th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So Lost:

I have to asmit, Wh has been trying. He immediately called her when I confronted him on dday and told her it was over. There was one email to his work email account a week later saying "where are you??" that he never told me about. When confronted about that last week he said e deleted it without opening and just forgt about it until I mentioned it. I think it's load of shot but who knows.

This was from your first post in the LTA VII thread. Your H has already been there done that with the "deleting" thing. He already got the instruction manual, and he deleted it knowing what he was doing.

I'm sorry if I'm coming across harsh, but this just doesn't set well with me. I just feel that any deleting (especially after it's already happened) is a huge reg flag to me. It's a no-brainer that he would share it with you. Especially since it's happened already. Just please keep this in mind.

Is there any way to recover the message? On my cell, I have to delete the message twice because it automatically sends a copy to archive. Same with my H's old one he had during the A. So he consistently wiped everything clean--purposely.

Lost's suggestion that you keep a log of his stories is an awesome one. (Wish I'd have thought of that one way back when!)

I agree a NC letter should be sent WITH consequences clearly stated--but be prepared for her to come slithering out of her den. At that point, you need to back up the consequences--and SO DOES HE. Otherwise they are empty threats, and she doesn't go away.

But seriously, be cautious. Deleting anything at this point is not something that should still be happening.


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 1:47 PM, January 12th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You all have helped so much. I thnk it is so true that he has been lying and having a certian moral standard for so long, and he can't just suddenly be the way he is suppose to. I am devastated that he erased the VM but it is not out of his character at all. He just doesn't think about stuff a lot of times.

I am currently thinking we will not do a NC letter. He called her on dday ad told ehr it was over. She called 3 weeks later to ask was it really over. We expected this as she knew I was there the first phone call. Now 6 weeks or so after that she went fishing. She knows he wants to be NC. It has been made very clear. So I think ignoring her may be the best message we can give. By acknolwedging it we ae giving her attention that she does not deserve.

Tell me if that sounds crazy. He pretty much said tell me what you want me to do and I will do it.

I ended up going to the friends party today. The whole family. This is the friend that we watch the cats for and he took ow to their house. He says they just 'made out' in the entrance way. I suspect more just-I don't know why. So this was the first time going to their hosue after knowing that.

I dreaded it. And it was terrible. I mean, it was fine, but I felt terrible. Luckily not that many people were there yet. I just kept picturing them.

Just an all around crappy wekend I think. And way TMI, but I had this corisone shot in my back for a herniated dis and it makes me have a neverending period practically. Plus my back hurts. So no sex happening here and I really, really, really need to feel reconnected wth him in that way. He knows how much my back has hurt so he will nt initiate for that reason, I know it. So I am just feeling majorly out of sorts.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, January 12th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK, give me a gut reaction. Should I be really worried about this VM deletion? Do you think there was other stuff on there that he didn't want me to hear? Or was he just being stupid and erased it and then came right home and told me about it.

He literally walked in the door and got a beer and came upstairs. I said it must have been a bad night if you had to grab a beer before saying goodnight to me. And he told me he got a call. So he was forthcoming.

I just doubt everything nowadays.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, January 12th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

VM deletion is an automatic thing for most of us, so maybe …? However, robt is right, he should have taken the warning shot across his bows on that one. No deleting of anything until you have seen/heard it. As to NC letter, if you send one from your lawyer (or some other who’s prepared to do it), there will be not further communication from her. This is a copy of the basic letter sent to OW

We have recently been consulted by our above named client.

Our client informs us that the two of you had a relationship that ended some months ago. Unfortunately, you have found this difficult to accept and have continued to contact our client by way of text messaging, telephone calls and emails. You have also visited our client’s home.

Our client informs us that this contact is unwanted and is never going to be reciprocated. Our client is in the process of rebuilding his marriage, which is based on their mutual love and not out of a sense of duty as you have suggested in the past. Our client acknowledges his former relationship with you and understands that you are upset but he wishes us to re-iterate that the relationship is over.

Our client asks that you immediately cease contacting him or any member of his family in any way, whether directly or indirectly. If you do not do so, our client will contact the Police to make a complaint of harassment which may result in you being charged with a criminal offence under Section 2 of the Protection From Harassment Act 1997. Our client does not want to take this step but will not hesitate to do so should you contact him again.

We trust that you will respect our client’s wishes and accept his kind regards for the future.

We advise you of your right to seek independent legal advice if you are in any doubt about you legal position.

Yours faithfully “

Obviously this relates to UK law. It's your basic NC ltter. But, I suggest you do it to STOP any more contact from her. If only from your point of view.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 2:15 PM, January 12th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not sure. I am really torn on this one as I see both sides.

I think she is fishing adn I hate to feed in to it.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, January 12th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SoLost
2x4 here:
PUT YOUR SELF FIRST! PLEASE!

Listen to the advice you have been given. We have all been there, done that.

You have the right to be upset.
You have the right for H to treat you with respect.

Do whats right for you!

(((SOL)))


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
soverysad
♀ Member
Member # 14594
Default  Posted: 3:02 PM, January 12th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So Lost:

I agree. Send a NC letter. It is important to have documentation of that. Then, if the OW does slither out from under her rock, you have the beginnings of a harassment case.

And sweetie, I have to agree with Run, this deleting of the VM is bothering me. Get your notebook and document everything - dates, times, what is said.

(((((((((So Lost)))))))))


(((((((((Zanny)))))))))) Thanks for thinking of all of us.

((((((((((LTA Tribe)))))))))))



Posts: 518 | Registered: May 2007
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 3:17 PM, January 12th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So Lost, seeing as though he already knew the ground rules, as Run pointed out, I'm with the Run and the others. It's time to insist on 100 percent transparency and the NC letter should go out. I hear you making excuses for him too -
I am devastated that he erased the VM but it is not out of his character at all. He just doesn't think about stuff a lot of times.
This use to be my H's way of not being accountable so he had plenty of freedom to operate his lies and deception in. His M is at stake and it's time to start thinking about it. If he has already been put on notice for erasing and knows what the groundrules are, my gut reaction is that he didn't want you to hear what else was on that message. He was forthcoming in telling you and the one thing that does NOT ring of deception is that he told you at all. It seems there is no way you'd ever find out if he hadn't told you. So this is a tough call So Lost but if he's told you he's game for whatever you need then it's time to put that in place because things still seem to be pretty loose and YOU are not OK with it. That's first and foremost. To find firm ground you can stand on so you can heal. He needs to be busting his ass to see that that happens.


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, January 12th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So Lost - I am going to have to agree with the tribe on this one. If this was the first occurence, maybe you cut him a break. But one thing I have learned in this is that they get *maybe* one chance to understand the ground rules and then it is out the door.

I would tell him that you do not accept him erasing any message, voice, text, email etc. I would also tell him that you will assume that if he erases it, it has some information/data that is incriminating. I would ask for his password and randomly check all of his emails, voicemails, etc. Also, OTC may be right, you may be able to retreive lost data...check with your carrier as to type of phone, etc and what can be saved. Keep a log/journal so you can point out to him "see look, you did this before and told me you wouldn't do it again...how many times do you expect me to believe you?" My gut is ringing on this one especially since NC has been recently established.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:20 PM, January 12th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((SoLost))), whatever you decide, be strong.

(((Zanny))). W/end time. You okay? Hope so. Sending good vibes.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, January 12th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK, I guess I needed a 2X4. When he comes home tonight I am going to tell him that I need him to take a stand for our marriage and send her an email telling her not to contact him anymore.

I have had this pit in my stomach all day adn I hope that maybe him writing that letter will bring me some peace.

I hate this. Itis so unfair.

I really think I was delusional in thining it woudl be over. She would call the once that we had both anticipated and then that woudl be it. He told me of that conversation, but again, who knows what was said. Just when I start to believe something, BOOM, doubts come or something else happens.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
IMstrong
♀ Member
Member # 10637
Default  Posted: 4:44 PM, January 12th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I asked my H to change his cell phone number, delete his e-mail account and create a new and different one. Until his cell number got changed (had to be done through his employer) we switched cell phones.

I now have complete access to everything, all passwords, etc.


Me BS
He FWS
LTA
DDay 2/20/2006
Reconciled

Posts: 76 | Registered: May 2006
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, January 12th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, Solost, it is unfair. This is why you have to take the lead and make conditions to make his behaviour transparent. You have to take control, as much as you can and as much as you can cope with. My H did not expect me to be the detective; he thought he could tell me as he saw it and I would accept it. He was sooooo wrong. As I say, be prepared for more revelations. I had a year of it. And I had the altered take on some things even last w/end. It just goes on and on. BUT. If all had been dumped in my lap that first week, everything that I know now; I have to say I would have thorwn him out. I would have packed his bags. He PROPOSED to her??? That one was after a year. SoLost, keep one step removed. Remember, lying was/is a way of life. He has to relearn telling the truth.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 5:40 PM, January 12th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So Lost, do you have her home address? I think certified mail the old fashioned way makes a larger statement than e-mail. That's just my opinion. An e-mail from him is just too easy to hit "Reply" to. You don't want any more contact. And yes, I do agree that his e-mail should change (although I know they work together) as should his cell phone. But if they work together, it's all too easy for her to get that again too.

(Have to add that UK I loved your NC letter. Very direct and to the point.)

I know you have a knot in your stomach, but be strong and take care of you. I agree with OTC in that you are making this really easy for him. Don't make excuses for him anymore. I speak from experience too in this because I have done that all too often over the years, and yes it IS why he could carry on with an affair--"That's just how he is." It may NOT be out of character for him to absentmindedly delete something ELSE, but not this. And he knows it. My H sounds JUST like yours in that he "uses" his character and his personality to his advantage. It became very easy for him (still is, in fact) to say, "I just didn't think about it." OTC is so right on with saying it allows them to avoid accountability. What you need to realize is that that way of behaving has got to go. All of it. Your H (and mine, and OTC's and everyone else's) needs to step up and KNOCK IT OFF. It has now become imperative that they change. Period. Their marriage needs to depend on it, because it obviously doesn't work.


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
soverysad
♀ Member
Member # 14594
Default  Posted: 5:56 PM, January 12th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((So Lost)))))

Oh, we all know how hard this is. That knot in the pit of my stomach is what has caused my weight loss I think. But stand firm. You are not alone. We are behind you all the way.

I agree with Run. Mail, certified, return receipt, is the best way. Also holds up better in court - should you ever need to go that way. Change the email address and the cell phone number.

And do something for yourself. Anything that makes you happy - even if only for a moment. Keep creating happy moments for yourself. These moments will feed your soul when you are at your weakest. It is like filling the well, so you have something to draw from.

(((((((SoLost))))))))



Posts: 518 | Registered: May 2007
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 6:32 PM, January 12th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK, you all make a lot of sense. I don't knoaw what else was on that VM, but I will never know.

When he gets home tonight I am going to talk to him about the letter. Changing cell number and email is pretty pointless as they work for the same place nad it woudl be very, very easy to get.

Should he actually write the letter or type it up? I'm thinking write it so she absolutely knows it's not from me but I'm not sure. He could just sign it after typing it.

I want it to be very short nad to the point.

I want to make sure we are on the same page. I am in love with BS. We are going to make our marriage work. My affair with you was the biggest mistake of my life and it is over. Do not call or contact me in any way.

WS

I want to be sure it soudns like he wrote it a well. I want no confusion as to who it is form.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, January 12th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((so lost))))

I don't want to belabor a point....but...don't you think....
It's rather easy to sound like a straight-up guy.....when you can walk in and admit there was a voice mail from the OW....

Very easy to do "when you have already made sure it was deleted."

No evidence of content..just my word that it happened and so here I am being "honest"

So Lost, Even if it DID happen like this (??)....he needs to know it is UNACCEPTABLE to building trust from you.

Run's reminder of this not being the first time is "key" to how much leverage you should attribute to him for just "he does things like that."

That is what all LTA cheaters do.. they bank on patterns being acceptable as "oh, well.."just them being them"

Those days are over...they have to be for any chance of R.

Don't mean to sound terse here..but we all have been there. You deserve to have some piece of mind.

I like run's idea of a certified letter.
I get that you don't want to give her the opportunity for further contact.

But are you sure that isn't already happening? I wouldn't risk ignoring ANY sign. You have been through enough.

Hope you back feels better.

Zanny.....thinking of you.

[This message edited by numb and scared at 7:38 PM, January 12th (Saturday)]


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



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