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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs V I I I
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, January 13th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

weepy,
Big sigh....I don't know what to say. That exchange would have precipitated WWW3 here.

LTA's have way too much garbage and "unacceptables" to have any room left for that kind of crass stuff. JMHO

It was just plain ignorance on his part.
DO you have a MC appt coming up? This would be a good (?)opening topic.

As for fighting the urge to tell the guy on the phone about the LTA, I suspect he wouldn't be the least bit moved or shocked by it.

Hefty,
I do wear my ring...b/c I designed it and like it. It really has no other significance now.
He has shown remorse, after a nasty prolonged fog (a cycle I believe is really acute cowardice)....
Had he not, I wouldn't be here....but he has personality issues that are long-standing and he needs to clear up. He knows it from so many other sources (people in his life who have tried to address it with him thru the years) and it is a work in progress.
Frankly, Most LTA cheaters are riddled with personal issues....they had to be, to do it. If not, there would be no logic to staying with someone who simply wanted cake-eating as a lifestyle.

Saying the "I love You"??....when and if I truly feel it.
But I guess I do, or again, I wouldn't be here.
But hefty, my radar is still "on"....I don't know when that switch will be diconnected. Probably, not ever.

Uni, glad to see you stopping by.....

zanny.....hugs.

[This message edited by numb and scared at 4:59 PM, January 13th (Sunday)]


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
25wimsey
♀ Member
Member # 7816
Default  Posted: 5:57 PM, January 13th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But hefty, my radar is still "on"....I don't know when that switch will be diconnected. Probably, not ever.

Amen to that!!

Sad way to enter the "golden years" for me--I could have happily gone to my grave not needing this radar.

"I love you"--I say it and do mean it, but still silently think "most of you"--and boy do I need to hear it a lot from H.

Weepy, sorry for that asinine performance from your H--always something cropping up.

Zanny, how are you?


Posts: 695 | Registered: Aug 2005
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 6:47 PM, January 13th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Weepy - Unbelievable - just unbelievable. I'd love to gather up a few of the tribe, come over to your place and send that H of yours sailing with one giant tribal kick in the ass. I hope you have told him you never intend to speak to that friend of his again.
My H never defended me to his brother when he would verbally attack me - real anger issues in that family. Anyway, I absolutely refused to have anything to do with him. After about 10 years I agreed to go to their place for a visit but told my H that if I was attacked again it would be the last time.
It worked. Now my BIL and I have a great relationship and he has been an amazing support to me and my kids since d-day.
I wouldn't so much as allow Mr. Weepy to mention that friends name to you again. What a fucktard!


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 7:04 PM, January 13th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Heftysmurf - My sense from your posts is that your W needs some real shock therapy - a very real reality check. Immediately after d-day my H was absolutely without remorse. Walked around as if I alone had the problem. After about 10 days of his cold and insensitive attitude, I met with a lawyer, drew up a property settlement agreement, handed it to him and told him to contact his lawyer and get back to me asap so that we could make the break with as little animosity as possible for myself and my children's sake. WOW - want an instant fog lifter. Believe me, this was no minor threat on my part. I was more than ready to follow through and he knew it. It is one thing to discover the depth of our S's betrayal. Quite another to live with their indifference following this devastating disclosure. Also, because my H worked with the OW and saw her every day and seemed to think it was unreasonable for me to expect that she should have to go, I couldn't see any hope for our M. I would have suffered a slow and painful death of my self-esteem and that was one sacrifice I was unwilling to make. The second thing I did was to insist that we have a family meeting where he had to admit to our adult children why we were likely headed for divorce. These two things forced him to face the absolute consequences of his years of betrayal. Once he saw their reaction and utter disgust for him, or better yet, once he could see himself through his children's eyes, he literally fell apart. The following day, he actually collapsed on the floor. I think it was some sort of shock or panic attack.
IMVHO, I strongly feel your wife needs some very strong message from you about the limits of what you are willing to tolerate. Right now, she doesn't seem to get it or care. She sounds totally absorbed in her own feelings and possible withdraw from her A. Stand up for yourself. You will never gain her respect or cooperation until you do.
(((HS)))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 8:19 PM, January 13th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Folks, like I said I've known this guy for 35 years. It didn't surprise me that he said it. My H is not the raunchy talk type, but he has 2 friends that are. This is one of them.

Until this happened, I probably would have taken it as a compliment that he thought I was good looking enough at my age to make a living on my back. Sigh.

I am just disappointed now, no longer angry. Disappointed that he didn't protect me from that. He knew what the guy was going to say and still took the chance that he actually would. Why wouldn't he? He's done it before and we've laughed about it.

H went to bed. I'm glad.

ETA... for the first time in months, I'm considering talking to an attorney.

And as a final blow, this guy told H he'd send him a porn link that he "HAD" to see to believe. H told him to go ahead. Well, I checked and he did. I forwarded it to my email account and then deleted it from his. I'm sure H will come down tomorrow am to check it out while I "sleep" upstairs. Too bad that he never "sent" it.

[This message edited by weepy at 8:27 PM, January 13th (Sunday)]


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
hearbroken
Member
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 8:25 PM, January 13th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Weepy,
OMG, I relate to this. Just when you think things are going (relatively) well, the FWH says something so stupid you are in utter shock! Luckily, my FWH doesn't have too many of those moments anymore, but when he does they send me in a tailspin. My gut tells me that is where you end up, also. Big Hugs.

Hefty, I will try to answer your very intense questions as meaningfully as possible to help you steer your course, as you decide.

Do you still love your spouse? Any doubts? Will it ever be close to being the same?
Yes, at this point I still love my spouse. Yes, I still have doubts and it will never, ever be "the same" as pre-A. I think for any of us we have to grieve the loss of a M where we had someone who was faithful only to us. You have to grieve it first to be able to move past it. And realize that it will never be the same.


Why did you decide to try?
We have two young children. I saw what a screwed up household did to my H and I don't want that for my children.

Do you say I love you?
THe first few months I did not because honestly I couldn't "fake" the emotion. He destroyed what I thought he was, and our marriage. And I always grew up believing that anyone who could do what FWH did to me did not truly "love" me. I still believe that to some extent, but had to move past this expectation, too, in order to R. About several months into R, I started saying I love you again to him, and I meant it. But it was only after he was already showing me in his actions that he was serious about R.

Do you wear your ring?
No, I will *never* again wear the wedding ring set that we got married in. Even though we are progressing nicely in R, I will wear a ring again only when we renew our vows and he makes the vows again that he broke the first time around. And because I believe that post dday was a new start, I would want a new ring. Everyone has different opinions on this topic.

Do you still think of divorce?

Sometimes, but those are only a few times during the year when I see evidences of pre-A selfish type behavior.

What remorseful actions does your spouse do?

Mainly accountability. Answered all my questions candidly, repeatedly. Broke contact with FOW immediately upon discovery. Went to IC and MC with me. Has his cell phone out at all times where I can snoop, if I want to. Expresses remorse verbally on many occasions.

I hope these answers help to give you perspective. I am about 2 1/2 years past dday from a 4 year PA/EA.

Zanny, still thinking of you.

(((To the tribe))))

Also, just had to say on the topic of changing spouses. Pre Dday, my H had serious boundary issues and today he *showed* me that even though he couldn't recognize a boundary on something non A-related, that when I pointed his behavior out he changed. He listened to my needs. He did not do this pre dday.

Hugs to all
HB


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, January 14th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK troops. It's 9 AM and I've already done an hour at the gym.

I have to hang around the house today because (yay!) my severance check is coming via UPS.

Now all I have to do is resist taking it and half our savings, my 401K and riding off into the sunset.

H is being remotely polite today. He thinks I'm pissed, so he's on his "good" behavior, calling in, saying I love you. What he doesn't realize is that the anger is gone... what's left is disappointment. Disappointment that he still has the "me first" attitude. That he's willing to sacrifice my emotional well being to save face with his buddy. Just so HE doesn't look bad. So it doesn't appear to anyone outside our immediate family that he's "different" now.

You wouldn't believe what he sent to my H, this "friend". Does not surprise me, he has the maturity of a 15 year old boy. Always has. Don't know how his wife puts up with him... oh, yes I do, she's working on her 2nd doctorate... she just isn't around him.

What H used to do before, which was fine... was when he was talking with the "boys club", he'd hold my hand and wink at me, so I knew he was just playing along. This time feels different.

So he can be as "good" as he wants, until I get an apology for the above, until I see empathy or at least understanding that he did something wrong... then it's the 180.

He won't apologize because he doesn't care if he gets forgiveness from me. He doesn't want that because he doesn't know he did anything wrong.

If I wanted to be evil, when he called a few minutes ago and asked what I was planning for the day, I should have told him I was going to scout out corners so I could start my "cash job".


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
heftysmurf
♂ Member
Member # 17080
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, January 14th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LS tribe - I asked some HARD questions. thanks for the answers!

weepy - I feel you so much right now. The me first attitude. WTF- basically you destroyed me, do not care, the A made you happy. You are likely amd at me as I destroyed it on you. Get over it!

Not everday you find out YEARS of your life were a lie. I cannot believe ANYBODY could do this to somebody.

Real love to me is when you hurt someone and you yourself are hurt you put aside your pain and help heal the one you wounded.

In many ways I could not blame any single one of us for any action we would do except for violence. Our brains have been changed in some not to healthy ways.

The thing they did to us touches your soul and destroys reality. It makes you not question a summer or a night or a year. It makes you questions years and thousands of experiences. It makes you question that they love you and why did they just not leave.

We loved them more than they could have ever imagained.

I know I have given her a chance beacuse of my daughter. The rest is up to her. I have already made a ton of improvements to myself for myself, my daughter, and her. I however will not stay just for my daughter. If my WS does not change I will never be close to happy. My daughter will see this and that is bad for her. She needs a happy dad together or apart.

Sometimes I think WE are sick. I bet if the tables were turned we would have had our bags at the corner. Are we ill?

[This message edited by heftysmurf at 8:49 AM, January 14th (Monday)]


BH-Me- 34 WW-Her- 29
D-Day- 11-04-07
M 6 years Together 12 years
2 YR DD WOW I love her!
LTA 6 YEARS - stolen time
Limbo. Praying for DD and our M.
In ridiculous pain. Amazed I can stand.

Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: New York
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, January 14th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sometimes I think WE are sick. I bet if the tables were turned we would have had our bags at the corner. Are we ill

No, not ill, broken. We are standing on air, not solid ground.

Would my bags have been packed if the roles were EXACTLY reversed, probably. But they never could be because they are different from us.

So, he wouldn't have kicked me out, but my life here would have been a living hell with him angry forever, reminded me every day what a low life POS I was. I know he wouldn't be struggling with forgiveness because it's not something he gives, ever.

I initially stayed because it happened on the eve of my son's senior year in HS. He didn't deserve to have his life disrupted any more than it was by Dday. He's the only thing that kept me driving home from work every day.

I don't know how long you can actually keep a M together because of the kids or because you still have "hope". I think once that hope dies, many of our FWS are going to be shocked to find themselves alone "when things were going so well" (meaning we weren't fighting all the time or talking about the A).

[This message edited by weepy at 9:01 AM, January 14th (Monday)]


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
no mor surprises
♀ Member
Member # 7678
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, January 14th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good AM ALL

This is our first Monday to check in and state our exercise/health/diet goals.

I plan on going to the gym twice to stretch, treadmill and a few machines. Protein for breakfast, "green drink" made from our industrial strength blender 4 times a week, no sweets or wine during the week, eat home made food rather than fast food, and take my vitamins at least 6 days a week.

Rethinking how we can check in, i now think we need only to post on Mondays with goals for the week and how we did on reaching our goals the past week.

So, post your goals for week one


Posts: 1768 | Registered: Jul 2005
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 9:11 AM, January 14th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Goals Week One:

Aerobic 30+ minutes every day

Weight work - 3 x this week

Start to ease back into Atkins or low carb diet (that means a shopping trip, but can't do it until check comes in) AT the very least

Cut back sugar consumption!


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, January 14th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Goals-Week One

Get back to walking either outside if weather permits or treadmill for half an hour.....every week day.
Get back to home Pilates bench 3x a week.

Moratorium on sugar..except the one tsp. in my tea at breakfast and dinner.

More protein, less empty carbs....

Keep daily water consumption consistent.


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
no mor surprises
♀ Member
Member # 7678
Default  Posted: 9:25 AM, January 14th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK, Weepy and I "weighed" in.........NEXT

Posts: 1768 | Registered: Jul 2005
heftysmurf
♂ Member
Member # 17080
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, January 14th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think you are right weepy. We are "broken".

I have a dim hope that somehow this will work out. My daughter is why I still walk the Earth and even try.
The damage from an LTA is so beyond a doubt painful that the only people that can beging to understand is our fellow tribe members.

I have been reading "How Can I Forgive You". I see two paths. Acceptance or Genuine Forgiveness. It states you can accept the heinous wrong and move on with them. I cannot do it. I want her to earn genuine forgiveness. Acceptance solves NOTHING. I cannot accept and stay with her. She will earn it and understand what she almost lost or will cheat again or I will. That is NOT who I am! If she can show me that she really is sorry I can do it for my daughter. At some point if I continue to see little it will not be enough. Dad will remain broken.

I know if she was not here I would be divorced or in jail.

I do not see how we were on any level loved while this was going on. Our spouses (if you can call them that) do not know what it is.

I sometimes question how any of us can ever get past this. I would say many of us are ending up either in loveless marraiges or divorced.

I am AMAZED at us for even trying. We are just too good and really do deserve better.

Having kids makes this SO hard. I never want another man near my daughter EVER till she is 60 and getting married LOL.

So this is not all negative.

Big cheers to all for working on yourselves. I recently joined a gym as well. Good diet helps to. I am not overweight so cannot giev any tips. In fact I dropped from 165 to 150 in two weeks after d-day. I hate the infidelity diet!

Good luck to all and stick with it!

Keep making yourself better. It is all we can do!

[This message edited by heftysmurf at 9:33 AM, January 14th (Monday)]


BH-Me- 34 WW-Her- 29
D-Day- 11-04-07
M 6 years Together 12 years
2 YR DD WOW I love her!
LTA 6 YEARS - stolen time
Limbo. Praying for DD and our M.
In ridiculous pain. Amazed I can stand.

Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: New York
hearbroken
Member
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, January 14th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, I'm checking in but have to modify my goals. My daughter was kind enough to give me her illness and I'm running a 103 temp.

My goals this week:

Take it easy and get better
Cut out any sugar, desserts, snack foods.

I think I can, I think I can, I think I can.......

HB


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, January 14th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Weepy – Okay, I’m going to suggest something here b/c it sounds like you’re down as far as you can be. Let’s go back to that stupid idiot and his adolescent POV about women and “humour”. It is not good for your soul to dwell on this, or your H’s reaction to it. It is still my opinion tho, that he should tell his “friend” he doesn’t appreciate anyone speaking to his W like that (after all, it’s insulting to your H too). How about closing your eyes, counting to ten and then thinking “will that phone call matter or affect my life in 12mths time, 5yrs time or 10yrs time?” If the answer is no, stick it in the bin.

Another question; do you think your H may have moved into a place where he can stop feeling and dealing with you, his current conduct and his past, so he can have some time out? And, if so, would it be b/c he can see it all (LTA, pro’s, porn) for what it really was; shallow, grubby, unreal and extremely unhealthy and he’s simply tired of it all?

It’s a crap time of year. If I could, I’d hibernate for a couple of months. As it is, I now feel guilty for spending work out time catching up on posts. I’m booking in the gym NOW (good job it’s only a 5min walk!).

Weepy, If I’ve trodden over your feeling, or you’re thinking “what the f*ck does she know about my sh*t”, I back off and apologise.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
no mor surprises
♀ Member
Member # 7678
Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, January 14th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HB,

"I know you can, I know you can and I really KNOW you can"

Hope you feel better. Have you tried airborne? It helped me a few weeks ago. Mine was a hacking dry cold.


Posts: 1768 | Registered: Jul 2005
up2me
♀ Member
Member # 10681
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, January 14th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hi tribe
i've been lurking. you're all amazing people, so much insight and so well articulated. thanks for posting your inner dialogs.

Posts: 690 | Registered: May 2006 | From: ny
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, January 14th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

uk, don't worry about my feelings, I'm immune to anything that someone who truly WANTs to help says. I take it in the spirit in which it was given.

Will that particular phone call affect me 12 mo from now. No, but my H's way of handling it will. It speaks directly to his need to "appear" a certain way to people. That he wears a mask and doesn't have the first clue how to be genuine or honest about himself, his past or the here and now. He doesn't bother to think about the future.

So, no, I don't think he looks at that time as dark, disgusting, shameful. I think he looks at it as "well, shit happens, so forget about it" kind of stance.

But it only applies to wrongs HE's committed. I still hear about how it was my "idea" to move from Texas 28 years ago and how he was so happy there or how well he'd be doing if we were still there... how moving back was a mistake. And here's the refusal to look at reality.... it was HIS childhood friend who persuaded us to move back and go into business with him.... the same friend who wound up stealing $10 K from us in this venture and forced us to start all over again living with his relatives because we couldn't afford an apartment. The same friend he skiis with every winter who has apparently been forgiven... because after all, it was MY fault we moved back. See what I mean about faulty thinking???

I am seriously looking at my reasons for staying with this guy.

PS: This is the same H that told me his whores weren't THAT whorey. I think he convinced himself they were soccer moms earning a couple extra bucks on the side, not women who fucked anyone for money. He specifically told me he couldn't "look at them that way" or he'd never have gone through with it.

[This message edited by weepy at 10:29 AM, January 14th (Monday)]


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
hurtbuthappy
♀ Member
Member # 14539
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, January 14th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I sometimes question how any of us can ever get past this. I would say many of us are ending up either in loveless marraiges or divorced.

I worry about whether we will get past this. Back to the question, is this forgiveness or acceptance on my part. Don't want to end up in a loveless marriage of acceptance. I really want a forgiving, loving marriage. Not sure we are there yet and don't know if we ever will be.


M-25 years
2 kids

Posts: 131 | Registered: May 2007
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