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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs V I I I
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 2:54 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks tribe. You all said pretty much what's been going through my mind since Saturday evg. What part of NC can't he understand? No way for me to really know who called (his cell phone is paid for by head office).
Where are you at now? Are you thinking he has started back up with OW again or is this truly a slip up? Let us know.

It's hard to believe that OW would call his cell about work at that time (they carried on EA online via a gaming site) but then again... no proof of anything so I'll probably never know. H has been transparent til now and hasn't given me any reason to doubt him but this is really bothering me. I think it was just a slip up on his part. He just does not 'think'.
Still... why not? I have no answer to this question. Is he still in the 'fog' after 11 months? After reading HurtShirley's description of her H's compartmentalization after 6 yrs, I have to wonder.
More food for thought... like I need more to think about!!! I can't get my brain to shut off now. Especially with overtime hours coming in the too near future.


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
IMstrong
♀ Member
Member # 10637
Default  Posted: 2:54 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PLEASE HELP WITH QUESTION

Hi all, sorry to interrupt. I have been obsessing lately due to some triggers, anti-versary, etc.
I have a meeting with F(i hope) WS in an hour. I recently found out that he broke NC 2 weeks after d-day. Now, this is old news, d-day was almot 2 years ago. BUT, I have had a nagging feeling that he wasn't being totally honest with me, and this is proof. It changes the story of how they ended, and what he said in my proof is hard to take, he was still loving her at that time. While at the same time going to MC with me and doing everything right to help me.
I am going to ask him a few questions and ask him to very seriously consider his answers, because they mean more than he thinks. I am going to tell him that I will not leave him, and I will forgive him, as LONG AS HE TELLS THE TRUTH.I went for an emergency IC session and C advised me to preface that by telling him that this is almost over for me, I feel I am coming to the end, but I need him to hang in there with me a while longer.
What do I do if he refuses to come clean about breaking NC? I don't want to show him my proof and I don't want him to tell me just because he thinks I already know. So, am I making too much of this? Because it was almost 2 years ago? Should i assume he was in the fog? But if he was and isn't anymore, how do I trust from here?
Please help me...

[This message edited by IMstrong at 2:56 PM, January 16th (Wednesday)]


Me BS
He FWS
LTA
DDay 2/20/2006
Reconciled

Posts: 76 | Registered: May 2006
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:09 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IMStrong, how reliable is this proof you have?


he was still loving her at that time

How do you know this?
If its by the fact that he broke NC, then I dont think thats true. He could have broken NC for many other reasons IMHO, the fog being the main one.

Your IC wants you to tell him that you are almost done..with what? I didnt understand that part, sorry.

Do you really want to confront him now IMstrong, when your feelings are running so high. I am just worried (for you)about how you would react.

I know how difficult this is, but can you stall him for a day or so. Wrap your head around the facts that you do know, get some distance from this (you know how Shirley Glass says about going into journalist mode) and then confront him. This will help you keep a clear mind to what he saying and how he saying it. And should it confirm some of your fears, this mode will help you deal with it better in the immediate sitch.

Take pen and paper with you. Write down your questions and leave blocks empty under it, for his answers. Write down what he says there and then. This helps me keep some distance.

If you cant hold him off IM, and if hopefully, he comes clean, and if he does confirm your fears, please remember this:
YOU WILL GET OVER THIS.
You are bigger than anything he can tell you.
And as much as it will hurt, try to look at where you both are NOW.
You ARE strong.

(((IMSTrong)))

Btw, if this should go horribly wrong (God forbid), is your IC available to see you again asap?

Take care.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 3:14 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Whew. I know your dilemna.

I like lost's idea of writing down EXACTLY what it is you want to know. The preface from your IC is a little questionable to me... I can say I'm getting to the end of this.. but who the hell knows. I thought I was past most of it and 2 1/2 yrs later it's all bubbling to the surface again.

I'd be afraid I'd blurt out "I KNOW you were in touch with her after DDay, you lied again to me." He truly could have been in the "fog", unsure what to do, scared to death to tell you there'd been contact right after Dday. OMG do you remember how we were? I'm still stunned my H stayed around for that. He deserved every ounce of it and more, but still.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
IMstrong
♀ Member
Member # 10637
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry i wasn't clear, I found proof of no contact, and I read his words of love for her.

I am almost done with my obsessive need to know everything, I really felt as though I was at the end, I still feel that, but all I have ever had was his word when I asked questions. Now for the first time, I have the answer before I ask.

I can't wait, I'm sorry, but I am prepard to be calm. Good or bad, I want the truth. I have been waiting almost 2 years to have the answer before i ask, I can't wait a moment longer.

Hope this helps


Me BS
He FWS
LTA
DDay 2/20/2006
Reconciled

Posts: 76 | Registered: May 2006
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 3:28 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IMStrong - I don't have any other words of advice other than what Lost and Weepy have said but wanted to send support to you just the same.
I can only say from the many posts here over the year and a half that I've been here that WS's can take some time coming out of the fog and as Weepy said, he could have been scared to death to admit that he broke NC at that time. I read your profile and it seems as if your H has done so much work and I'm hoping he's not stupid enough to lie to you when you confront him tonight. Can you possibly begin by telling him how much this has meant to you - kind of to get him to put his guard down a little - and then bring up the issue of his breaking the NC rule. I agree with Lost and Weepy that using the opening that your C suggested might put him immediately into a defensive mode. From personal experience, I get more truth and answers when my H doesn't feel threatened.
We will be here for you. (((IMStrong)))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:29 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Crap, I am sorry IM.

I truly hopes that he mans up and tells you everything you want to know, instead of dragging it on.

Dont threaten or make conditions if you really arent going to follow them up. Ask him if he needs some time to really think about it (I know what you are thinking, "He needs MORE time!WTF")but this is hard for them too. I found that when I gave H some space and time (about 2 days should do it but he usually asks for a week)he comes back more coherent and has had time to open up those tightly shut boxes, rummage through them, and bring what I want. If this is that impt to you and the M, it can wait a day or so. Some might not agree, but I would rather him really think it out, instead of giving me a knee jerk reaction, which ends up in all of us losing. I hope this makes some sense and helps you some.

(((IMStrong)))
(((LostS)))

Goodnight all.

ps. FSA, wheres our cake??
Goodnight all.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
IMstrong
♀ Member
Member # 10637
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks all....
I will keep in mind what all of you said. I am leaving soon, will try to pop back in tonight and update. Thanks so much, I feel like I'm not going in there alone now.


Me BS
He FWS
LTA
DDay 2/20/2006
Reconciled

Posts: 76 | Registered: May 2006
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Slut Monkey followed me to my office - For 21 miles I couldn't get rid of her.

WHAT????

Remember that Zolatas' new job is across the street from the slut monkey. They were probably both going to work.

Zo, did she know it was you she was behind?

Ruthie, I don't know what to say about this except that you have had a long time to process this. You've had to recover and heal alone. Maybe you've done so and it's just too late.

IM, I'm just afraid he will stick to his original story--just because. Not saying it's right, but that's what he's always said, and being honest now could invoke fear. If he lies to you today about something he told you two years ago, are you really prepared to walk? Whatever you say you're going to do, you should do, so I wouldn't make empty threats.

Maybe you can just have a conversation about what you know rather than a confrontation. That may get you more of the results you're hoping for.


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I recently found out that he broke NC 2 weeks after d-day. Now, this is old news, d-day was almot 2 years ago

IM – I may be too late but I bet you he was still deep in the fog then. Yes, it was wrong for him to break NC and it was definitely wrong to lie to you about it for two years. But, as Run said, since things were going well he probably was scared to death to go back to JFO mode by telling you the “full” truth. If he did maintain NC after that, came out of the fog, was remorseful and worked on himself and the marriage, I would hate to see you toss it all. Why don’t you tell him that 1) you know and that 2) it hurts you deeply as honesty is the only way forward. Ask him why he didn’t tell you? Ask him how he felt about not telling you. Just assume the fact and ask about his feelings and his empathy for you and go forward from there. Good luck


Do they ever think of that...and how much restraint we must use not to look in their eyes and say the obvious..."You say you missed what you willingly chose not to cherish...??"
"Tell me, how does that work...??"

NAS – obviously I do not have the same restraint as you as I have said things close to this. When my H tells me what a great woman I am and how much he *now* loves me, I look him straight in the eye and tell him that I haven’t changed a bit. I am the same woman that he cheated on. I am the woman that he wasn’t sure he could love. I am the same woman that he complained to his whores that we didn’t communicate well, he wasn’t sure if I was his soulmate (I fucking hate it that these assholes who are in a complete fucking fantasyland go around calling each other soulmates. Are you fucking kidding me – you don’t even KNOW each other you just know the mask of the other person! Ummm….sorry, mini-rant .

Anyway, I am not holding back on this one. I want this realization to sink into the deepest crevasses of his soul.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ruthie - obviously I am much closer to dday than you but I often feel nothing. There are times that my H does things that I would of done back flips of love and happiness before and now I feel either nothing or appreciation for his trying. I just read your profile and, like most of us, so much damage was done but since you have been apart for much of the R time maybe you haven't had the chance to either fall back in love or find the place where you want to be with him. I would be honest with yourself and with him about feeling nothing. Maybe it will make him try harder?

LostSoul - have him get a copy of his cell bill from accounting. If it goes directly to his office, they will have records. He may push back and if he does, ask him why he is worried. My Hs cell is through his company but I get a copy of the bill from his secretary. Although, I am not sure what I am going to do with it since he makes about 2000 calls a month - how do you find the needle in the haystack?


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 4:45 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lostsuol, verify, verify, verify.

[This message edited by runoverbytruck at 5:35 PM, January 16th (Wednesday)]


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 5:08 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NAS – obviously I do not have the same restraint as you as I have said things close to this.

Shirley,

I didn't say I have restraint....bscause I didn't. That was my point...we are supposed to refrain from confronting.

I called him on lines like that MANY, MANY times.

I understand exactly what you said.

Ditto on your mini-rant.


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 5:15 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Horrible day today. Routing through the cell phone and find a picture of wh penis. Seriously. On his cell phone. Through me over the edge. Go wake him up and ask abotu it. Of course he sent it to her at 2 am in Septmeber. Made me sick. Sick that I married a man who woudl do that while his wife and two little kids sleep upastairs. Sick that I married a man who woudl fuck some whore in the grass with a wife and kids at home. Sick that he could fuck her int eh van in Acme parking lot while I waited at home worried about him. How could he be the father of my kids. My daughter was looking at his cell phone pictrues the other day but didn't seee that one. Thank God. He disgusts me.

I told him all that. I told him I hate him. i can't even look at him. He curled up behind me and just held me while I cried and said he was sorry and blah fuckity blah.

I can't do it anymore. I feel so broken.

[This message edited by So Lost at 5:51 PM, January 16th (Wednesday)]


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
Ruthie
♀ Member
Member # 5476
Default  Posted: 5:35 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IMstrong,

When I found myself in similar situation I didn't confront. Instead I began a conversation and then injected the nugget of information that I wanted confirmed as if it were already a known fact. I was able to tell if it was true or not by how H reacted.

If it was true he would agree or continue the conversation in some way. If I had it wrong, H would say something like, "I wouldn't say that" or something like that.

However it went though I found that it worked because it wasn't a direct confrontation. The hazard for me though was I had to remain calm no matter what he said. Otherwise when I next wanted information he might not be so forth coming.

I have also noticed that some of those earlier conversations have since been revisited and expanded upon.



Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint.
-Mark Twain-

Posts: 2740 | Registered: Sep 2004 | From: Ontario
heftysmurf
♂ Member
Member # 17080
Default  Posted: 5:38 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

so lost - I feel the "broken part. Our d-days were very close together. I am still an absolute wreck. Every day is in a way is harder. This LTA BS warps your mind. I am not right at all.

I want R and she has been honest (i think) for 10 days now but has done little besides this to help me. How about doing something nice. Get IC, send me a nice long caring email, anything. I feel like a thirsty man in a desert.


BH-Me- 34 WW-Her- 29
D-Day- 11-04-07
M 6 years Together 12 years
2 YR DD WOW I love her!
LTA 6 YEARS - stolen time
Limbo. Praying for DD and our M.
In ridiculous pain. Amazed I can stand.

Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: New York
Ruthie
♀ Member
Member # 5476
Default  Posted: 5:40 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SoLost,

I am at a loss as to what to say...


Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint.
-Mark Twain-

Posts: 2740 | Registered: Sep 2004 | From: Ontario
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 5:43 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((so lost))

OMG I am so sorry. That is such a violation. Why was it still on his pics? Why didn't he erase it? Are you sure your daughter didn't see it? I agree with you that at times like this we think "who are we married to?", "did I ever really know my H?". If it helps, in my case I did not. He hid himself from everybody including himself.
((((hugs))))


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:51 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IMstrong, I would say write those questions down. Well, it kind of worked for me. He still found ways to not quite answer though, so be persistent. I must have gone over them three or four times, and I’m not finished even now 18mths later. I’m with LostH and Weepy on this, be calm when you put them to him.

SoLost, what is going on there? Why would any bloke keep a pic of his DICK on a phone???? Time he woke up to reality. So sorry ((((SoLost))))

Hurtshirley:

He punishment for all this: he was a “passenger” in life. He never really lived his life. He never felt any real emotion. He was bound and gagged inside the mask of himself.

Made me dig this out. One of his “verses” that I just think of as emotional poison

These are the visions dipped in uncertainty,
Clouded by doubt and shrouded in a cloak
Woven with the threads of confusion, a label
That cannot be read without wiping your eyes
With the back of your shaking hand, perspiring,
Breathing erratically as you ponder which route
To take, choices to make, fearing the worst lest
By your flawed judgment others should suffer.
No sympathy for the emotional prisoner who has
All the days and all the nights for thinking,
No need to decide anything, for anyone, and,
Despite all his doubts and fears, it is not for him
To decide, for he has chosen abdication, and
There is no courage in a mind paralysed by the
The weight of its own deliberation, beaten by
failure to decide, not by making the wrong decision

I probably shouldn't have copy and pasted something so private, but even so, for me it says it all. Hiding behind themselves and what they were doing. A double life over which they had no control? Passengers? Self absorbed, selfish, self pitying crap.

And I’m also looking at if his affair was a way of “punishing” me. (who posted that?) Not sure what for, cos I’m way short of perfect, but people DID perceive us as having the perfect life, so maybe …..

My mind is whizzing right now. Just finished watching a film and I wonder, if OWH had been in the house and said “ok, f*ck my W, I’m just off for a beer up the road”, would the magic still have been there? Or would that have shown up the affair as simply unpaid prostitution?


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 6:06 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I fucking hate it that these assholes who are in a complete fucking fantasyland go around calling each other soulmates. Are you fucking kidding me – you don’t even KNOW each other you just know the mask of the other person!
I think you misquoted here Shirley - it's soulMEAT.

(((((lostsoul))))) Your brain must be spinning. He just doesn't think isn't really a way to explain it though. He was thinking enough and on his game enough to carry out an LTA. A guy who just does't think and is forgetful, etc. would have been found out in the first month. See him through this lens and you'll never buy "I forgot" again.

(((((So Lost))))) I'm so sorry you had to see that. It really brings the seediness and ugliness of his hidden compartments front and center.

Ruthie - I can't see how you would have any feeling left. He has systematically destroyed any love, intimacy or tenderness that could have ever been there post Dday #1. I was also given an STD resulting in surgery last May from my H and the diseased skank. I am awaiting test results to see if it's gone yet or if there is another surgery needed. I can't even imagine him not being there 100% for me during the whole thing. We had some tense moments about him/us breaking NC to tell the skank but because it's HPV more knowledge told him he didn't have to. Chances were she's fought it off or it would show up on her annual pap so we didn't have to do that (of course my hopes are that she blows off her annual OB/GYN since she's post menopausal and ....... Ok this is not healthy ) Anyhow, him just showing that much concern (which was supported by our MC ) sent me into orbit. I can't imagine him negating your sitch as an innocent and tending to the whore's! That would kill any love I ever had right there. So the fact that you didn't feel anything is not surprising or alarming at all IMO. Sweet intention on his part but the damage is done, over and over and over in your case.


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
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