If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.
The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton
It is not because she was trying to get back at you, it was not because you were a bad husband (even if in fact you were at times), because at the end of the day she had choices. You could have been Brad Pitt and perfect and she would still have done it. Her om could have been anyone (now I know he was your bf so you have a double betrayal which must be so hard for you). You need to understand that it's not about you.
For me mentally, I know this now, but I still can't quite relinquish the low self-esteem issues and I think this will take the longest time of all. So I really think I have to forgive myself for not being perfect and then I might be able to move onto him.
Give yourself a break Hefty, don't think about forgiveness, it doesn't matter at the moment. Concentrate on you. I know it seems impossible I still don't half the time, but you just have to force yourself. Even if you manage to do something for yourself once in the next two weeks, it is once more than what otherwise might have happened. This is going to take years, but you will not feel the way you do today for years. It will get easier.
"Just when the caterpillar thought it was over, she became a butterfly."
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
You made a declaration of your love
As if you were entitled to its return
And now that you've been tossed away
It's clear your declaration has been spurned
You see you fool he never would be yours
For all you were was something so impure
You thought your love and devotion would be the key
To taking him away from me
But all you were for all that time
Was filth, and shame and nasty slime.
He is not proud, nor pleased that he
Took my love and was unfaithful to me
He lives with shame and much regret
This was the final gift you left
So think on this you pathetic whore
He never was forever yours
What you will have for eternity
Is the pain that you said you would spare me
Now that pain is multiplied
By all those years and all those lies
Nothing is left for you but shame
And mountains and mountains of my disdain.
And of this fact you can be sure
He never was forever yours.
You used my friendship and my concern
And turned on me and mine
So do not look for my understanding
You used that up when you crossed the line
Now all that's left are disgust and disdain
and wishes for years and years of shame
So have no doubt when you weep at night
And lonlieness is your lasting plight
It's what you deserve It's what was at stake
When my life and my husband
You tried to take
I leave you with this final thought
Remember always what your deception has wrought
Shame, regret, loneliness and tears
And oh so many wasted years
You betrayed the only man whose love
You clearly were so undeserving of
So many memories tainted and soiled
So many lies your unfaithfulness enbroiled
Yes of this fact you can be sure
Pain and regret will forever be yours.
The othet comment I know in many ways is right as well and may explain a lot. The A is not about me. Now that it is out it should be ALL ABOUT ME IMHO.
All I know now is LTA Double Betrayl sucks beyond belief and would hack my right arm off with a rusty hacksaw with no anesthesia to have avoided this happening to me.
I like the v-cards.
On the OM/OW front, my H had a very enlightening experience yesterday and we had a very good talk about it last night
HurtS - I read your husband's post and found it as well as replied very interesting.
I wish my H felt he could talk to me about this. I'm sure he has seen her (as they work very close to each other) but I don't think he feels "safe enough" to tell me about it.
I have been trying to take the advice given here to create a safe place for him to share his feelings, but we aren't there yet. You both have been through soooo much and I can see much work from your H.
It is a long journey, but you seem to be making it well!!
Good luck again, OTC!
She has treated me lousy for a lomg time in our marriage. Had a very short fuse with me and ready to lash instantly.
Although my xW didn't do this, she moved away mentally from me.
From reading books and here on SI, the anger is a way for the WS to create justifications for continuing the A.
"Look at him, he's having all that fun, why can't I?"
"Look at him, he's so mean to me, I deserve someone who really understands me".
"The term “mistake” infers a level of ignorance, innocence and naivety. And a lack of intent and planning." - Craig Harper
We're still working on the "justifications" he used to fuel his anger, to justify his distance from me and the kids.
He even went so far as to say it was because I got pregnant with our son 6 months earlier than we planned to try again.... Oh, and I was the only one there at the time of conception?
His biggest issue was that I "controlled" every aspect of our home life. I never consulted him on decisions. Oh, the man worked 12 hours a day, sometimes 7 days a week to avoid being home. While home, he would sleep or play video games or watch tv and berate me for interrupting. Uh, when was he "available" for discussions?
Crazy some times.
I know taste is relatiive, eye of the beholder and all but this girl now woman is not what anyone would think of as fantasy material, think Miss Jane instead of EllieMay. Complete delusion. I know now he has always been that way when it comes to women, sees what he want's to see and what's not there he makes up. For example, we both met this woman at the same time she was staying with an aqquaintance of ours and while we were visiting she had just gotten out of the shower, , she was dressed in a skimpy nighty ( he says and actually remembers it that way ), and this kick-started the fantasy but it was actually a mumu type robe, zipped to the neck. He not only created an EllieMay out of a Miss Jane physically but apparently gave her a different personality too. She apparently had qualities like, she was funny, she was classy, she had a lot of the finer values, well liked and so on but in actuality she had none of these, he just made them all up. I can't leave this out, when i asked him why he never approached her with the idea to an affair he said he thought she was too good for him , she wouldn't be with a cheat. That and he felt shy around her. But if she had approached him it would be a different story. He basically took a complete stranger that he happened to see most everyday and made her into an ideal woman and it was only in his mind. There was another crush before this one for a few years and i knew this one too and yes he did the same thing with her but we'd moved again so i guess he needed someone a little more nearby.
God, i'm married to this man! What is wrong with him? Not hard to see why i'm embarrassed and ashamed to even bring this up. The only good thing i can say is that now he sees how twisted this all is, he is in an even deeper pit of shame and guilt than i would wish on anyone.
So now i've put this out here i am so anxious to hear your opinions/thoughts. HOW does someone do this and WHY and for so long?? Please, any insight at all.
P.S. he has told all this to his IC but it hasn't been raised as a discussion yet, still dealing with FOO issues
[This message edited by mindisgone at 11:13 AM, January 31st (Thursday)]
I remember thinking I wouldn't make it through the day much less make it six months.
Then I found you guys and you said "breathe honey", "one day at a time", "take care of yourself", "work on you". You guided me, told me what books really help. You let me share your pain and your struggles. Oh, zanny, you know that path up the mountain? You left markers for the rest of us to show us too. I am sitting here crying with happiness knowing that I have true friends here that will be there for me when I fall.
Thank you so much all of you. Thank you for helping get this far. And, thank you, in anticipation, for helping me move forward.
If you can stand it, you might try posting some of this in general as a lot of the wise ones hang out there.
In the meantime, my H has a similar issue except his is not a crush it is waaaaay more sexual. But, I think the important part is the fantasy. The fantasy is something that they do to fill some void within themselves. This is definitely something that he needs to spend a lot of time on with his IC. My H has just starting exploring with his. In his situation, it is around being "soothed" something his mother never did.
I know this doesn't really help but I wanted to let you know that we are here for you.
MIG - Look, we all have our wierd little worlds with their own brand of strange. I find it very promising that your H realizes his brand of strange is really off. He is reckoning with this and examining FOO issues and perhaps eventually repressed memories, etc. will reveal what circuitry went haywire and set up this fantasy dynamic for him. The fact that he got this out and on the table is extremely promising. And that he recoginizes it as abnormal and potentially damaging is really good news IMO! Honey, please don't feel embarassed with us. We have all been to the pits of hell in looking at our spouses and what they were capable of and trying to figure out the wierd and abnormal shit that had to be going through their heads. He is human MIG and human beings have things that go off and haywire in their thinking, beliefs and ways of looking at the world without even knowing it's off and haywire. I had haywire and effed up ways of thinking about sex due to many contributing things in my early years. I didn't even know how far off I was or how deep into dysfunctional thinking I was in.
You are not living with a monster sweetie. He is a human being. He will be slowly seeing where the wiring is off and he will be working on getting the circuitry in a functional state. It's a really good thing this is out in the open. Try to hold on to that and let go of the shame. This shame is not yours to carry my dear.
Shirley - I read your H's post in WW. WOW!!! Here is a guy who is really doing the work and dealing with his shit!!! And you, madame wise one, with your brilliant insight! Way to go in removing yourself from the emotion of the situation and standing as his partner in healing! The old tribe got a real gift when you came in here. It's wonderful to see where you're at in 6 mos, especially with what you've been through. ((((((Shirley))))
MIG, puleeeeeze, don't be embarassed in front of US!! Really, come one, the crap we've laid out on this table....geeez, there is a reason we are on an anonymous board!
MIG, most human behavior does fall in a "normal" range. Your H's stuff may seem weird to you, but all of this stuff feels so strange. Like OTC said, it's great he can get this on the table and out there. Sure your understanding the memories is different, but his are far more interesting!! It's not delusional, it's fantasy. The stuff of creative people and writers. Sure, it stings, because it cuts so close to home, but this isn't about you. It's about his needs and how he tries to fill them. I think people learn how to cope at various points, and it doesn't matter what age they are, they still trot out the same coping mechanisms. These were pleasurable fantasies that provided escape for him. I know this may not be what you want to hear, but they sound like pretty normal guy stuff. I mean, it's not involving unusual orafices, bodily parts, additional people, gerbils...or anything like that!!
Congrats Shirley. 6 months is a milestone! You have soldiered on and moved forward even when you thought you couldn't. I am so happy that the LTA tribe could be here for you.
I want to tell you how much I appreciate all of your encouraging words everyone. It's been a rough go the last month. It's staggering to begin the timeline over again. I don't really like to think of it that way, because it would mean so much work would have been totally lost. I have to believe that we didn't start over, but just took a giant step backward and are starting over at a better place.
"gerbils" I'm sorry, but that made LOL!
I wanted to comment on the vacation too. We did vacation about seven months after Dday. It was H's b-day, and I wasn't in the present buying mode yet so I decided let's go on vacation instead. For a week, I made myself let it go and focused on where I was at and the kiddos. It turned out to be a pretty trip overall. Returning home was a little rough though. It was easy to let it go for awhile elsewhere.
I just keep reminding myself that this couple of years will just feel like a blink of my eye in 20 years time. I am reliably informed by a very wise elderly relative anyway who has 85 years of life to look back on.
OTC awaiting my pap results too after my followup test, but mine are three weeks away so fingers crossed with you.
I feel very angry today (having decided that I am not a very angry person, suddenly I feel angry ) It's about something that I can't go into at the moment, but suffice it to say it has raised all of the old "You did this to me" accusations and made me concentrate on the past when I had got so good at trying to focus on the present and not think about the future.
I'm ok, just stomping my feet as I walk around and bashing things down in the kitchen. I've told him I'm feeling angry, but the truth is there is nothing he can do, he is sorry to the bottom of his bones, I can't keep pummelling him into the earth about it, at the end of the day he can't change the past and nor can I. So I stomp and I snap at anyone who tries to talk to me.
To be fair though I should also say that I am on a hormone treatment for a few weeks that basically mimics the symptoms of the menopause and the nurse warned H that I might be moody and I told her that that was completely normal and she turned to H and said "It will get worse!" The nurse has no idea how true that was.
Anyway, as always I have to just ride the wave. Seeing IC tomorrow for the first time since November so I guess that's good timing.
How did work go today Lost and more importantly how did H do?
Zanny so nice to see you. Do the Green Berets get more stripes? I think you've earned a couple of extra ones now. I am so impressed by your strength.
Mindisgone I am not wise enough to really comment on your H but I will say that what you write is not embarrassing or shocking to me, the strongest emotion I feel is empathy for you and interest in a "what an incredible spectrum of human thoughts there are" kind of way. We are truly amazing beings even in our worst form. We here in the LTA tribe can definately place ourselves in the top percentiles of human thinkers I would say.
Thought of one, not as good as others but heregoes:
Roses are red
Violets are blue
This is my bed
With no room for you.
I think I will make this my mantra as mind movies are playing havoc with my sex life at the moment.