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User Topic: N.P.D. Thread Part V
Threnody
♀ Member
Member # 1558
Default  Posted: 9:34 PM, March 2nd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Write to them with a copy of the letter they sent you enclosed. State that he has never had residence at your address. Give them the proper contact information, including phone number.

File it away under "Apples, Trees: Falling Closely By" and go have a drink.


“If you don't like my opinion of you, you can always improve.” ~ Ashleigh Brilliant
"Great love requires determination." ~ tryingtwo
"Don't try to win over the haters, you're not the jackass whisperer." ~ Brene Brown

Posts: 14039 | Registered: Jun 2003 | From: Middle-of-Diddly, TX
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, March 3rd (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lied2: I think the post office has a return policy whereby you can do "Return to Sender" -- no such person at this address. Or you can just throw it away, and wait for the next one, because I think the Return to Sender policy only applies to unopened mail. Check on it.


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
itsabattle
♀ Member
Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, March 3rd (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is obviously another common factor between the freaks and their families: I have no end of things with his mother/his sil etc on my address. Debts and all sorts!
The funniest thing I received however, was my ex's prescrption for viagra and for a penis extension! The ow must be so disappointed!!

On a more serious note I just wish every trace of him and his family would be removed from my address. I just put everything back in the post with return to sender on it. Tiresome and irritating.


Posts: 1233 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: england
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 2:48 PM, March 3rd (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Threnody. I am just so angry that his stepfather would do this. It all makes me happier to be divorced from this pack of losers. Unfortunately this is the kids' grandparent.

The ex has been making plan for the kids to stay over now that he is living with the fiance. I am not willing to have them stay overnight until the 2 of them are married. I have sole custody so the standard clause of morality was not put in the divorce. If he doesn't like it he can take me back to court.


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, March 3rd (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Interesting:
------
http://www.choicesoforegon.com/thinking_errors.htm
------
Thinking Errors Commonly Associated In Antisocial Behaviors
------
1. Excuse Making - Excuses are made by the antisocial for anything and everything. Whenever held accountable for actions, excuses are often given. Excuses are a means of finding a reason to justify his behavior.

Examples: "I'm dumb - I couldn't help", "I don't know", "I was never loved", "My family was poor", "My family was rich", "She/he did not say stop"

2. Blaming – Blaming is an excuse to not solve a problem and is used by the antisocial to excuse his behavior and build up resentment toward someone else for "causing" whatever has happened.

Examples: "I couldn't do it because he got in my way", "The trouble with you is you're always looking at me in a critical way", "She/he should have told someone sooner", "She/he wanted me to..."
Blaming is often seen in what seems like ordinary conversation, that is, the antisocial may be observing someone else's behavior which has nothing to do with his/her, and still make blaming comments about other people. This often generates excitement for the antisocial and is used to put others down, while he/she builds himself/herself up.

3. Justifying – Justifying is the antisocial’s way of explaining the reason for things.

Examples: "If you can, I can", "I was so lonely I had to...", "She/he yelled at me, so that is why I hit", "No one listens to me so that's why I can't do anything"
The person with antisocial thinking finds justification for any and all issues that he does not wish to own responsibility for.

4. Redefining – Redefining is shifting the focus of an issue to avoid solving a problem.

Examples:
Question - "Why are you running up and down the hall?"
Answer - "I'm not running, I am just keeping time to the music in my head."
Question - "Who put this paper here?"
Answer - "It wasn't there yesterday."
Question - "Where are the books that I borrowed from the library, and left on this desk?"
Answer - "John was hanging around here this morning."
Redefining is used as a power play to get the focus off the person in question. It is also indicative of ineffective thinking; not dealing with the problem at hand.

5. Superoptimism - "I think; therefore it is." The superoptimistic antisocial decides that because he wants some things to be a certain way, or thinks it will be a certain way, therefore it is. This permits the antisocial to function according to what he wants, rather than according to the facts of the situation.
Examples: If the antisocial expects someone to visit them at their house, they may not take into account that the person may have other plans, or simply the arrangements haven't been made. They fully expect the person to show up. When the person doesn't show up, this gives the antisocial an excuse to explode, be angry, or have a tantrum. Superoptimistic people also believe that they can be famous, popular, strong, movie stars, rich, etc. simply by wishing it, and never take into account the practical steps along the way.

6. Lying - Lying is the most commonly know characteristic of antisocial thinking. Lying is done by all antisocials in different ways at different times. Lying is a power play and is often used to confuse, distort, and make fools of other people. There are three basic kinds of lies:

commission - making things up that are simply not true
omission - saying partly what is so, but leaving out major sections
assent - making believe that one agrees with someone else, or pretending, or approving of others ideas to look good when in fact, the person has no intention of going along with this, or does not really agree. The same antisocial at different times can look like he is lying and be telling the truth, can look like he is not lying and be lying, can look like he is lying, and in fact, not be lying. This creates turmoil around him, and people are never sure what is going on.

7. "Making Fools Of" - This is the effect of lying on others, and "taking others with them." Antisocials make fools of others by agreeing to do things, and not following through, by saying things they don't mean, by setting others up to fight, by inviting frustrations and letting people down, and in numerous other ways. Making fools of others is a major ploy for antisocials and a major behavior common to all. Antisocials delight in making fools of professional people, such as therapists, lawyers, judges, anyone they can take in , telling stories to "get over on".

8. Build-up - To an antisocial, everything they perceive as positive, they use to build themselves up, and they generally do this by putting others down. In fact, almost everything said to an antisocial that is not seen as a build-up, is seen as a put down. The antisocial can take insignificant events, such as someone not speaking to them on the street, and assume that this means they are either despised by this other person, or that they are better than the other person. The thinking that goes along with this is that the antisocial is always right and everyone else is wrong.

9. Assuming - The antisocial spends a great deal of time assuming what others think, what others feel, what others are doing. He/she uses this assumption in service of whatever criminal activity or behavior he decides to engage in.

Examples: The antisocial assumes that other people don't like him. This gives him an excuse to blow up, be angry or rob, molest, not pay his taxes, or any other thing he has in mind. Assuming takes place every day and the antisocial makes assumptions about whatever he wishes in order to support his antisocial behavior.

10. "I'm Unique" - The antisocial believes that he is unique and special, that no one else is like him, and so any information that is applied to other people simply doesn't affect him. The beliefs going along with this are things such as "I know everything and I can handle things alone." "I don't need anyone, no one, no understands me anyway." "No one can tell me what to do." It is common in a prison for a criminal to believe that everyone else are criminals, but not him. A child molester may think - "I'm not like all those other dirty child molesters; I'm different."

11. Ingratiating - The antisocial often overdoes being nice to others, and going out of his way to act interested in other people. This is phony and always has a hidden price tag. The antisocial is always out to find out what he can get from other people, how he can manipulate them, use them, or control the situation to his own purpose.

12. Fragmented Personality - "If I like it, okay; if not, to hell with it." It is very common for the antisocial to attend church on Sunday, and beat someone up, or rob someone on Tuesday, and then attend church again on Wednesday. To the antisocial, there is no inconsistency in this behavior. He believes he is a good person, and is justified in whatever he does. His criminal acts are seen as things that he deserves to do, or get, or own, or possess, or control. He never considers the inconsistency between these behaviors.

13. Minimizing - The antisocial often minimizes his behavior and actions by talking about it in such a way that is seems insignificant. This is not accounting for the significance of his behavior. Minimizing is particularly seen when the antisocial is confronted on some irresponsible behavior.

Examples: "I only molested three children, and I could have molested a lot more, but I didn't." "I didn't hand in the paper when it was due, but I handed in everything else, so it's no big deal."

14. Vagueness - The antisocial is typically unclear and non-specific to avoid being pinned down on a particular issue. He is non-committable, and uses words, phrases, and talks in a way to look good to others, but not to commit himself to anything.

Examples: Vague words such as: "I more or less thinks so", "I guess", "probably", "maybe", "I might", "I'm not sure about this", "It possibly was", etc.

15. Anger - Anger is one of the only emotions the antisocial ever expresses. This is not real anger most of the time, (in fact 99% of the time), but is used to control others, or to use power in a situation. The antisocial has unrealistic expectation about the people in the world, and controls others and situations by aggression, blaming, isolation, giving up, power plays, anything he can do to freeze the situation and make it as he wishes.

16. Power Plays - The antisocial uses power plays whenever he isn't getting his way in a situation; such as walking out of a room during a disagreement, giving up responsibilities, or not completing a job that he agrees to do, refusing to listen or hear what someone else has to say, organizing people to be angry at others in his support.

17. Victim Playing - This is a major role that the antisocial takes. The underlying issue is aggression and power plays. However, the antisocial acts as if they are unable to think, solve problems, or do anything for themselves; they often whine, shuffle, look woebegone, helpless, as if they are too stupid to do anything for themselves. The belief is that if he doesn't get whatever he wants, he is the victim. Since the basic belief is that he is good and others are bad, he justifies his victim playing at all times. The position of victim playing is used to strike back and make fools of others. The victim player transacts with others to invite either criticism, or rescue, from those around him.

18. Drama-Excitement - Since the antisocial does not live a real life in the sense of getting his needs met directly, he does anything and everything for drama and excitement instead. To the antisocial, boredom is the main evil. Excitement is generated at anyone's expense. Whereas other people may get involved in less-than-straight transactions with others in order to feel sad, or hurt, or self-righteous; the antisocial involves himself in activities for the sheer drama and excitement of this. It is seen as exciting, therefore, for an antisocial to watch other people be angry, to set up fights, watch houses burn, to get any kind of action going.

19. Closed Channel - The antisocial is selective, closed-minded and self-righteous. The responsible person is open, receptive, and self critical. Part of the antisocials thinking is that he must keep part of his life secret, to divert issues. He believes that no one is smarter than him, and would never think that he is wrong in a situation.

20. Ownership - "If I want it, it's mine." The antisocial believes that anything he wants - people, possessions are his simply by his wanting it. He is therefore jealous if anyone acts in some way that he dislikes. He treats people as pawns. He also uses his thinking to steal from others anything that he wants.

21. Image - The antisocial's image of a true male is tough and rough and mean and puts other people down. He often has ideas of males as adventurers, cowboys, pirates, etc. The antisocial walks and talks in such a way to support his image - the other image the antisocial plays is that of the victim. The person walks and talks and acts in such a way to support his victim image.

22. Grandiosity - Grandiosity is minimizing or maximizing the significance of an issue, and it justifies not solving the problem.

Examples: "I was too scared to do anything else but sit." "I'm the best there is, no one else can get in my way."

23. Procrastinate - To put off from day to day; to delay; to defer to a future time. To delay action.

Example: "I will bring up the problem tomorrow. I just don't feel like discussing it now."

Modified list and examples from the original work of Samenow & Yokelson
------

BoB


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 4:47 PM, March 3rd (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BoB, this is wowww!

6, 7, 22...I just popped in before my dental appt.

Just WOW & thanks!
((((hugs, everyone))))


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 6:42 PM, March 3rd (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hmm 16 just about explains the situation I had tonight. God help me.

My ex is moving in with the fiance next month. I refuse to allow the children to stay over night until they are married. I had not yet informed him of this and knew he would freak out. (the fiance never allowed it with her children when they where younger but I guess has no issues with it now.) My ex twisted it all around and I was "bitching" at him by calling him about this. He has now decided I am am no longer allowed to call his phone. He emailed me informing me of this. I ended up replying with the following email.

B**** (AKA Shit-for-brains)
As per our most recent phone conversation, I will not allow the boys to stay over night while you are living with J*** and the 2 of you remain unmarried. The morality clause standard in most custody agreements. It states that neither parent is to have overnight guest of the opposite sex or live with someone of the opposite sex unless married to them or they are a relative. I don't mind you having the boys for visits during the day but they can NOT stay overnight in such an arrangement. I brought this up now since you have decided to change you living arrangements without discussing the impact on the boys or the visitation.

If you feel that you do not want me to contact you by phone at any time then I will not be able to allow the boys to have visitation with you. Hanging up on me everytime I call is the same as not allowing me to contact you. I need to be able to contact you about the boys especially when they are with you and not being allowed to call you means that I am unable to have contact with you and them during that time. If you you feel that is what you need to do then feel free. I am sure the boys will miss you.

Clearly you need to feel in control of the situation and resent that I was given sole custody. Rather than attempt to calmly discuss things and do what is in the children's best interest, you often go off on me because you feel attacked. I do try to keep you in the loop about the children but you have made the choice to not be actively involved in their life.

I have repeatedly asked thatyou email me about visitation but last week you still made arrangements with the boys for visits and then said that I should be the one to email you. We obviously have a breakdown in communication. If you want to see the boys you need to email me.

As it stands now, you will not have visitation with the boys until you have provided me with a written agreement to allow phone contact about the boys as necessary for their wellbeing and safety. If that arrangement is not sufficient then you can petition the courts for other arrangements.

lied2

The kids are pretty upset because we discussed this and they heard most of it. They have no real problems with my decision although they are sad it has come to this. I really don't see that I have a choice. If I am not allowed to call him I can't allow the kids to go with him. what is there is an emergency? What if I can't get to a computer or he doesn't check the email? It is unacceptable to have no contact with him about the kids. As the parent with SOLE custody I am responsible for their wellbeing at all times.

I am so sick of dealing with his BS. It is tiresome at the best of times.

Oh and he asked about the letter and now he is telling me that I am criminal for opening the letter. I opened it before I even considered that and it was not like I could take it over to the grandparent's house and ask them since they are in Florida for months. I doubt that he could press charges for me opening it.

[This message edited by lied2 at 7:09 PM, March 3rd (Monday)]


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 7:31 PM, March 3rd (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Lied2)))
He's an asshole.

BoB


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
itsabattle
♀ Member
Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 3:07 PM, March 4th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lied - it never ends does it? Continuous bullshit..
Stick to your guns.

Bob - thanks for that info...far too many of them applied to my pet freak.


Posts: 1233 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: england
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 4:20 PM, March 4th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Itsa))) & (((Tribe))),
The more I've learned about the disordered, the more it would appear that there is not a whole lot of difference between the different disorders.

Our "Pet Freaks", seem to fall into what is called Cluster B in the DSM IV the "dramatic, emotional, or erratic" Personality Disorders, Borderline, Histrionic, Narcisstic and Antisocial. These are the ones that drive everyone else crazy (LOL).

It seems that there is but a fine line and or varying degrees of behaviors to be classified as one or the other PD, although Narcissistic and Antisocial seem to be on a continuum. Often more than one "diagnosis" seems to fit. I guess disordered is as disordered does. They are just plain trouble regardless of what they're called.

No Contact is the cure, at least for us, cause as we all know, the PD believe that there is nothing wrong with them.

Love,

BoB

[This message edited by bobelina at 5:56 PM, March 4th (Tuesday)]


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:46 PM, March 4th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm learning that the less information they have (you opened the letter? HOW DARE YOU!)
- the less they eff with ya.

and oh! btw, that's why I'm skeered - I shared my heart& soul.
prayin.


Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Threnody
♀ Member
Member # 1558
Default  Posted: 6:58 PM, March 4th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Tribe. I'm pretty low ATM. xF found a new way to leave me a message. I heard his voice today for the first time in over a decade. I had a lot of other stress going on today around the house, but that was what broke me. I'll have a plan tomorrow. Tonight, I just want to throw up, cry, scream, stand out under the sunset and stars and pray to God for mercy.

Is it considered a crime to abuse a pet NPD? I'm thinking about a sack, some bricks, and a handy river or pond.


“If you don't like my opinion of you, you can always improve.” ~ Ashleigh Brilliant
"Great love requires determination." ~ tryingtwo
"Don't try to win over the haters, you're not the jackass whisperer." ~ Brene Brown

Posts: 14039 | Registered: Jun 2003 | From: Middle-of-Diddly, TX
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 7:48 PM, March 4th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Threnody)))
Him leaving a message is creepy.

May his balls fall off for bothering you, and may the sight of his balls rolling across the floor and being ravaged by rabid rabitts and rodents cause his eyes to burst and his vocal chords to shred as he attempts to shriek in disbelief. Or something hideous like that. LOL.

BoB


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
napewastewin
♀ Member
Member # 15297
Default  Posted: 7:59 PM, March 4th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((Threnody)))))


that's a good curse BoB


take your candle and go light your world

Posts: 1443 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Michigan
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 8:01 PM, March 4th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thren, that IS damned creepy!
Can you now turn it over to the cops and get an RO since he's pushing the boundary envelope?

(((((huge hugs))))

Lied2~ brilliant response!

Happy Birthday, cj!
Today is cj's birthday, tribe!


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
IDeserveBetter
Member
Member # 16602
Default  Posted: 9:20 PM, March 4th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Geesh, Bob! No wonder WH is driving me out of my mind! He does absolutely EVERYTHING on that list!!!!!

Thank you for this, I think I need to post it on my wall and give WH a big, highlighted copy.

[This message edited by IDeserveBetter at 9:21 PM, March 4th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 754 | Registered: Oct 2007
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 4:45 AM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 8:07 AM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((lied2))) Good letter, and yes, so sad that it had to come to this. Does he respond to text messages at least?

(((threnody))) How utterly sad. I hope you are able to get through today. Blowing hugs and kisses your way. Wish I could help with the shadowboxing you are going through.


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thren,
Make sure you are documenting EVERYTHING. Record the message onto another device and save it. Also, transcribe the message and put the date and time on it. Also, photograph your caller ID box. Even if it came in "private name, private number" photograph it. File it all away.

You might call your local police department and ask them what you can do. He probably hasn't done enough to warrent a RO or a PO at this point unless the calls have been threatening or harassing in nature. But filing a police report and having the evidence will help down the road it this keeps up.

Good luck.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
Threnody
♀ Member
Member # 1558
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It was a voice file on the computer. I have saved a copy in two places and deleted it from my home machine. I also immediately ran a series of scans and cleanups to make sure there wasn't a Trojan program. I'm not going into a lot of detail here, because I still think he lurks. I probably shouldn't even have posted about being upset. But I needed to let you guys know, for my own peace of mind. Mr. T doesn't always get it, y'know? But you've been there. You understand when I say "I'm cold and shaking and I want to vomit." To him, it'd be just a voice. To me, it's the baying of the Hounds of Hell.

I woke up out of sorts, but more determined upon a course of action. I'm making some calls today. Information is power. Always. And having a plan, or series of plans, is the best protection you can have.


“If you don't like my opinion of you, you can always improve.” ~ Ashleigh Brilliant
"Great love requires determination." ~ tryingtwo
"Don't try to win over the haters, you're not the jackass whisperer." ~ Brene Brown

Posts: 14039 | Registered: Jun 2003 | From: Middle-of-Diddly, TX
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